I 2nd the car camping applications as well!
We've tested alot of materials over 5 years & still have more questions.
This vid had plenty of new details I didn't know! Glad to find this channel.

We have ~~25 F degrees --~~ 95 F range to contend with.
But of course winter is the mortal threat.

Or if there's a channel out there to recommend...
The challenges are unique & so many variables to use case needs...!

All comments from YouTube:

The Ultralight Mindset

2y↑692

I'm guessing your already aware of this but the Klymit V channels are the reason for the odd Rvalue ratings. They are designed to work in conjunction with the insulation on the bottom of your sleeping bag. Like you said, most of the insulation on the bottom of your bag is compressed and worthless when you lay on it, on most pads. The V channels allow the bags insulation to loft up filling in the gaps creating a higher Rvalue.
I'm not saying it should be 4.4 Rvalue, but it's definitely going to be warmer when used with a sleeping bag versus a quilt or a sleeping bag with less insulation on the bottom.
We have several Static V insulated ultralight pads. Used them for years. Great pad for the money as long as you understand it's limitations. Lots of great info in the video....👍
Cheers!

Edward jones

wisenber

@Middle Outdoorsman Your comment completely avoids reality.
They didn't "get caught with their pants down" and have been touting channels for over a decade.

Middle Outdoorsman

Personally I think the Klymit V channels are one of those "great on paper, but not in practice" things. Bottom line is Klymit got caught with their pants down when a sleeping pad rating standard was established, and they bombed the standard. The sleeping bag with channels is damage control. From my own experience, you get a tremendous amount of heat transfer through the V channels, even with a sleeping bag. Took two different trips during winter a couple years ago, and brought the insulated static V and a thermarest foam pad with me. I thought I had a combined R value of 6, in reality it was a combined value of 3. I had a sheet of ice under me the shape of the foam pad each time i pulled camp. I was always cool. Never completely warm. The only thing that saved my bacon was the thermarest pad. I won't use a Klymit V channel pad in cold/winter conditions again, and I suggest to others the same.

Henning Rech

@David Roman Uninsulated Static V in torso length on a cheap Z foldable foam pad. Works fine for me until 20s at least., with a quilt. And you have built-in safety even if the inflatable pad fails (happened to me with two samples from Thermarest, slowly leaking after a week).

Christian Vachon

@wisenber Agreed! That's a good point!

64 More Replies...

Dan Wahl

2y↑1K

Everyone here probably knows this trick, but I love to share it because it really saved me a night of misery. I was backpacking with a friend of mine and an unexpected cold front blew in and I was not prepared. My friend was a cold weather camper and asked me if I had a Nalgene bottle with me. He had me put my jet boil just outside the tent, boil some water and dump it in my bottle, and put it in my bag. It would keep me warm for 2-3 hours and then when I got cold again I would unzip the flap reheat the water and throw it back in my bag. Kept me from freezing my berries off. Hope this helps somebody.

Fiagaí

That’s so smart, thank you all. I’m knew to backpack camping so this is a cool tip

Freedom1775

1y↑1

Use a military issue canteen (they're nice and thick plastic). It will hold the heat for twice as long. I'd do this in the Marines during cold ops.

FK

I wouldn’t drink out of that bottle if you do that.

Jennifer Tislerics

2y↑1

Put that Nalgene bottle inside a hiking sock or two or cozy and it'll last 6+ hours.

Karen Santos

2y↑1

What i like to do is put my kleen in a sock after i boiled some water. Helps a lot during the winter times

19 More Replies...

Villiage_idiot

Pro tip: Use a closed cell foam pad under your inflatable pad. This will make a thermal barrier between your sleep system and the cold ground.

Eric Valk

I found a mylar faced tarp placed below the sleeping pad made a significant improvement.
A sleeping bag can have significant heat loss through the zipper and at the top.
A good winter bag will have an internal roll next to the zipper, a neck roll with drawstring, and a drawstring in the hood around the face. On really cold nights, its important to pull both drawstrings snug.
If you’re caught with a summer bag (no hood) on a cold night, you will sleep warmer if you tuck in the top corners of the bag to reduce airflow.

Dominic Benecasa

I always figured I’d put my emergency blanket that I carry underneath the sleeping pad if it got too cold.

Tommy Johnsen

2y↑358

Another tip is the sleeping bag work as a thermos. Put something (you) cold inside and it takes a hell of a lot more time too heat up. Some push ups and knee bends (getting some body heat flowing) speeds up this time. Or you can cheat, fill a bottle with warm water and throw it in the foot end.
Kind regards a soldier, that hates too freeze. In Norway.

mynamewuztakenlol

@Gizamalukeix 🤣🤣🤣

Gizamalukeix

2y↑4

That's a great idea actually. What I have to work to my advantage are farts. I'm not joking. I have IBS and fart like 120-150 times a day. I'm talkin like 4+ seconds farts. I love to camp so it's nice to know I can use them for something useful haha. I mean I'm assuming that would help heat up my sleeping bag at least a little.

Deontjie

Is that -15 F or C?

Animula

That’s a good trick! I’m not even planning to sleep outside any time soon, but I’m glad to learn this.

Walter Mullaney

2y↑3

MRE heaters

4 More Replies...

Mainely Digger’s Adventures

Awesome information thank you for sharing!

gael Abegg Gauthey

And perhaps consider cot instead of the inflatable pads

Darryl Ricci

2y↑323

Another option if you have less expensive pads is to use a thermo blanket between the ground and the pad. Very cheap and weigh nothing. The silver reflective ones work great and make a huge difference.

Insano Insano

@D H the 2 if u can, the same objective putting between snow and you is the same putting between you and the bag. . What happen is the reflectirem send back the radiation(heat) back, só if u put between uband the bag the heat dont go way, the same happen with the cold refleting back from the floor(snow) back to the snow..

Handirifle

Excellent suggestion

PNW Affliction

2y↑2

@PhylloJoe yes absolutely. reflects your heat back so the ground isn't absorbing it and draining you.

PNW Affliction

2y↑2

@Migrant Hawker go camp in sub freezing without one and tell me all about how it doesn't make a difference

PNW Affliction

bingo, 100%, these make ALL the difference in the world.

14 More Replies...

Dwayne Walker

I guess people think the only insulation is goose down (which depends upon loft)

Tory Evans (S451)

2y↑20

I'm a huge fan of my silk sleeping bag liner. It's tiny and very light, and adds a lot of warmth - I don't purposely camp in below freezing temps, so this is a great backup for when it does turn out colder than I was expecting.

L

2y↑2

It’s a must. Sweat in the liner. Extends life of the bag. Can open your bag a bit on cold nights

Dan Riehle

2y↑23

Hey Dan, have you ever done a sub-$100 sleeping pad comparison? Maybe something split up with $0 to $50 pads and $50 to $100 pads? That would be awesome for us that are outfitting new Boy Scouts that are on a budget. Keep up the great videos, we'll keep watching!

windrider65

2y↑3

@Kristopher Krahl I've carried a closed cell pad for years. I used it year round and for warmer weather I went with a blanket and sheet. It weighed about 3lbs, but when I was younger, the good night sleep was worth the weight of the pad. It's been on many backpacking trips and has served me well over the past 25 years. There is always a trade off on weight for comfort, chose wisely for equipment isn't cheap.
Take care and have fun.

Kristopher Krahl

2y↑3

Closed cell foam pads are better for cold weather than inflatables, and are much more budget friendly for scouts.

YogalandaWellness Yolanda Tietgen

2y↑1

Oh a video for Boy Scouts would be awesome!! My Boy Scout has a nice setup, but for those with no experience it would be great to make sure they have items to ensure they grow to love camping!!

Jake

2y↑39

I've always brought one of those mylar lined tarps (pretty cheap on amazon), the good ones are really light and durable, line the bottom of the tent with it (I suppose you could use it as a footprint too), it brings the temperature of the entire tent up so much, a must in my opinion!

Jake

2y↑2

@ttessieann The non reflective side, you want your bodyheat reflected back up to the tent

ttessieann

2y↑1

what side do you put down?

fantasyexctasy

2y↑122

One thing I discovered that works amazing is using both an inflatable sleeping pad and an egg shell sleeping pad with the radiant side facing you. I put the egg shell pad between the inflatable pad and my sleeping bag. Will keep you significantly warmer vs just the inflatable pad. It is a game changer. I know some people see that as too much to carry but an egg shell sleeping mat is very lightweight and you can fit it to the outside of your bag

Doug Sherwood

2y↑1

Totally.. I'm glad someone else has figured this out. I've been doing this since I was in scouts in the 80s and 90s after freezing half to death in my early teens. Winter camping in the Canadian Rockies got super easy once I started using one closed cell foam roll on the bottom and an open cell one on top because it's softer. Both from MEC.

Kevin Jack

My problem is I toss & turn - rolling off the pads

Graham T. McNamee

Brilliant idea. Thanks for sharing

John Sales

Totally agree with you. Used this system in temperatures around -4 F. Always get great sleep

Phil Anderson

2y↑1

This is a great technique for car camping. Carrying the extra pad for backpacking can be a bit much though.

5 More Replies...

Josie

2y↑14

Loved the tip about rolling. Also having a sleeping bag that’s small enough to fit me properly has made a huge difference, so much warmer! And lighter.

T2D Warrior

2y↑5

I've never had a sleeping bag warmer than the 3 layer gortex sleeping bag issued to me in the Army back in the early 2000's. Was a cocoon type bag with outer layer just a Gortex waterproof shell. Middle layer was like a lightweight sleeping bad with inner layer being thick. I stayed warm whether sleeping on a cott, the ground, or wherever w/o any kind of sleeping pad or useing that standard issue pad the Army gives ya. I remember being out in the field sleeping under the stars on a city nice & warm and when I woke up in the morning & unzipped & poked my head out to find my entire sleeping bag was covered in frost. I was really warm inside though. Hated to get out of it.

Brandon

2y↑11

I’ve been getting back into camping again lately and just getting into hammocking, the amount of videos I’ve watched is unreal.. with that being said, your video was hands down the most informative, honest, no bs video on this entire platform. Never heard anyone talk about these other ratings and stuff. Thank you!

NoThanksYoutube

Hope you've seen some videos by Shug! (Shugemery), taught me everything I know about hammocking!

Dan Becker

2y↑2

👍🔥🙏

Magic Prepper

2y↑43

Super helpful information. Putting together a lightweight sleep system currently with a "do-all" approach. Grabbed the Klymit insulated pad as I live in North Dakota but I was not aware of the ATSM rating. I'll have to test it out in multiple conditions. Combining it with a Snugpak Tactical 3. Basically, the two should cover 75% of the year for me with extreme winter being more problematic. But, weight and cost limits the "do-all" approach I am going for. Anyway, great work!

Neo

@Planet Clownfish Brain camping is a recreational activity, war and training is not. i care about comfort when im camping, in a war all i care about is living

Planet Clownfish Brain

Ten years in the grunts and never used anything more than an iso mat. More often we just leaned against a tree and called it home.

Melanie

2y↑3

This video was SO helpful! I just completed my 3rd backcountry, 3-season experience with my current sleep system and this last trip I REALLY felt the cold at night. I was disappointed because the comfort rating on my sleeping bag is at least 10 C colder than the nighttime temp. This video has me convinced that the rating on my Klymit V sleeping pad is the culprit.

J London

2y↑37

After years of cold feet and short ground pads, I ended up making my own ground pad. I made a big pocket out of rubber backed canvas and a few sheets of aluminized bubble wrap. I can add in layers for any winter camping and at 6’8” long, my feet are never off the end anymore. I really like using it in my hammock. The canvas is grippy enough that I don’t slide into a ball, it’s stiff enough to keep the hammock sides away from me while sleeping, it is thick enough that I can hammock camp through 35f nights without getting cold and I don’t get bit by mosquitoes through the bottom of hammock on warm buggy nights when I’m sleeping.

Peace Formula

2y↑4

You should post a video of that beast

Terry Miller

2y↑112

Have you ever tried using a reflective "emergency blanket" under your sleeping pad? I've found that very effective. Using it over the sleeping bag will trap moisture but using it on the floor of the tent works well.

Solji

2y↑2

@ESP emergency blanket should have the reflective side towards where you want to keep the heat at, if it's winter then you want it towards you, if it's summer when it's away from you.

ReggieLouise

2y↑2

Great lightweight suggestion, I’m going to try that on my next trip 😉

Cara

2y↑1

@N Marbletoe Thanks!

N Marbletoe

2y↑2

@Cara face the reflective side towards your body / the mat

Cara

2y↑2

@John Vogel Thanks!

7 More Replies...

Seeking Origin

2y↑2

if you've never looked into foil tape, you might check it out. its adhesive is very strong for a first-stick, not so much for any repositioning, but it's very thin so it rolls up in an emergency kit pretty well. also its reflective backing could be used for makeshift repairs should your flashlight should it be damaged-though-functional. mostly it's just very compact.

Sam Factor

2y↑50

Klymit pads have those deep grooves which allow your sleeping bag to loft up underneath you and provide more warmth (at least in theory). Thus the pad it self may appear to not have enough insulation for cold temps but when paired up with a sleeping bag it will keep you warmer than a flat pad of the same R value.

Tom Smart

2y↑2

"At least in theory"? I would amend that to, "at least in Klymit's dishonest marketing."

Bill in Roswell GA

2y↑1

That is false physics.

NoobOnPC

2y↑1

I was wondering what the groves were for

James Buckle

2y↑5

Doesn't really make sense though does it? Most insulation is made to prevent cold bridging caused by high pressure points crushing the insulation and "short circuiting" to the cold. Doesn't matter how much is lofted if you're lying on cold bits. Imagine lying on water pipes with down between them, no matter how much down depth you have, the cold pipes will freeze you.

Jacob Dueholm

2y↑2

7:52 - If only 30% of the insulation is on the back of the bag, Klymit’s grooves won’t cut it!

Ari Kolbeinsson

2y↑14

I just did a high altitude cold weather trip (sleeping highest at 4800m, temperature below freezing but the altitude changes everything). The thermarest pad (I had the mummy-formed narrow version) is wonderful. Having a sleeping bag that does a bit more than just fulfilling the minimum requirement and pairing that with a really warm pad makes the nights very comfortable and allowed me to sleep more than other travellers.

supacheef1

2y↑3

I have also found that a foam pad under my airpad is huge for warmth. I use a thermarest zpad and a big Agnes q core insulated pad. I've got a cheap fleece sleeping bag from Amazon that maybe is good at 60f by itself and a 22 degree bag that is probably good to 35 in real life. Putting the fleece bag inside the big bag and using both pads I've slept WARM AND COMFY to 5. I'm a cold person.... I never want the AC on and the heat in my house never goes below 73.

A Shed In The Woods

2y↑28

Wow. I saw this and was like „oh, one of those videos….“ - but this was really really informative, covering many things that a beginner might not know and start believing sleeping outside is uncomfortable! Also I second the repair kit thing; my Thermarest suffered a minor spark from the camp fire on a trip, and wouldn’t hold air at all anymore. I was very lucky to have brought a repair kit with me, so I could continue the trip without the hassle to find a camping store in a foreign country. That was about 10 years ago, and I still use that same Thermarest every time I go outdoors, patched and all.

Whitey Fisk

The glasses and dandy boy spotless clothing really do make him look like a glamper d-bag

wuffpaw

2y↑11

The way to roll in a bag without exposing the back of the bag to the cold is TO STRAP IT TO THE PAD. If your bag has an uneven insulation design, it almost assuredly has straps or a baffle designed to attach to the pad to prevent rolling

Agent Orange

2y↑17

Been camping my whole life and still learned some new tips from this, great video thank you!

petekwando

2y↑51

Great information, thank you. I've been spoiled living in CA for many years. Although it is sort of depressing how many mistakes boil down to "Forgot that most companies are dishonest sacks of crap."

Brian Mcsorley

Yeah .

Juancarlos Reyes

From Southern California yeah, if’s pretty easy to forget seasons besides summer exist, winter oh no it’s like 55 degrees outside 🥶

D

2y↑5

@Mike1614 Generally the two go together in tandem- corrupt politcal culture is an outflow of usually corrupt business culture. I'm hard pushed to think of one example in the world or in history where you has a benign business culture and corruption is isolated to just the politcal system. It hard to bribe a politician if no one is prepared to offer one. By the way corrupt businesses by in large aren't very good at creating goods and jobs- they wouldn't need to be corrupt if they made the best products and worthwhile jobs.

Mike1614

don't forget "most politicians are dishonest sacks of crap". at least companies create jobs and manufacture products.

D

2y↑3

California has quite a bit cold weather camping. I've slept in a snow shelter near Donner Pass and it was as cold any other 'tough winter' state.

huscarl 101

2y↑83

I learned a long time ago (got my first thermarest pad in 1986, ten years after starting to backpack) that if you put the sleeping mat inside the sleeping bag then you’re less likely to roll the bag with you when you thrash around, less likely to roll off the mat in the night (especially if you have to sleep on a slope) and less likely to cut or puncture your mat.

Philip Camp

Good tip . Thanks

L

@huscarl 101 do the same with sleeping in a sleeping bag liner, (coffin shaped packed in a larger sleeping bag bag), reflective emergency layer in the tent, plain tarp under the tent. Only time mat leaves the bag is to be packed away in tent - to avoid punctures. If warm. Sleep under the tarp as a hootchie. Also have coffin rubber pad (cut in half in my backpack for backup or comfort. Never had a problem and helped out a friend) when camping

justin dunlap

2y↑2

I 've noticed that they're starting to attach straps to the back of sleeping bags so you can strap you pad to your bag, I might have to try the pad in bag approach.

Mente Digital

2y↑2

just tried this at home, very good advice. I have a yoga mat and a 5C to 10C sleeping bag. I live on the countryside of brazil, so is usually warm.

Chris Slavin

2y↑9

I just did this for the first time last week, and it made such a positive difference. I used a Nemo Forte bag and alps inflatable pad (I forget which one I have). I woke up to frost, but had the warmest sleep ever. I actually had to shed layers in the night.

3 More Replies...

Robert Misiuk

2y↑7

For winter or mountaineering, I always carry a foam zrest to put under any inflatable pad. This way the ground is insulated it is keeps the inflatable off the cold ground. The remark about using a bivy below is also a good idea, but not needed as much if are in a 4 season tent. Also have learned to make sure that your boots stay in the tent or in the bivy so they don't freeze.

Chloe Me

2y↑11

Damn, considering that this equipment might decide over life and death there should be mandatory, understandable and independently tested ratings as to how warm it will keep the camper. Very nice and elaborate video!

The TRAVELOR

2y↑28

REALLY good review my friend. As a survival instructor growing up in rural MI and live/work/explore in my early years living in Alaska being out all year long in different weather conditions we definitely learned tricks to stay warm in the cold BUT the best thing you can ever do is spend some time in your gear outside at HOME before any trip. It saves so much discomfort by getting your system down first being able to bail and go inside for hot coffee/chocolate and then getting the right gear and or learn the cold weather tricks. A good night sleep is priceless in the bush. Also as others have pointed out here, site prep and layering (like you do for YOU) for your base and sides are critical in cold weather.Thank you again for really good advice and showing the ratings mean-usually not much!!

ACG7001

Do you have backpacking recommendations for MI in spring summer and fall?

AlyGSpirit

Thank you so much! Aw the market makes it very complicated :-(.

kaikart

2y↑1

Got a silver thermal insulated tent mat, it makes a really big difference than using a regular polyester mat.

ᚲᚱᛖᛏᚨᚨᛚ

2y↑15

Honestly, one of my best methods has been, when available, to use pinecones under your ground tarp to put a barrier between you and the biggest conductor of heat, the ground. Other brush works too, but pinecones are some of the best due to their volume and them not tending to rip a sufficiently heavy tarp.

Usually I'll put the nylon tent inside a constructed shelter of branches and bows, make something akin to a cozy wildcraft shelter with a nylon tent interior, floor will usually be pinecones with some kind of wild threshing overtop to take the poke out. Then ground tarp, tent, sleeping insulation, sleeping bag. Been trying to make one of those floating stoves out of a bean can with my white spirits stove inside for an internal heat source, since you can leave the tent door open and make a shelter door with an exhaust port for the chimney (I'm going to experiment with telescoping chimneys and see what kind of airflow I can achieve with that kind of seal).

If you wanna know where I learned my survival skills, it was at Mt. Rainier in the cascade mountains. You learn to live warm in the cold up there. Used to live in its shadow.

Richard Cranium

2y↑1

I’m assuming cones from a white pine?
We have loblolly trees and their cones are as big as a pineapple.

OneGun Salute

Can not believe how much your channel has grown! Yes, excellent advice on pads , after old-school camping all my life I finally bought lightweight "premium" backpacking gear a few years ago, and a pad will definitely make or break how warm you are regardless of your sleeping bag.

Gilbert Craven

2y↑65

Biggest complaint I have, especially as I get older, with sleeping gear for camping/hiking is that they do NOT make "adult sized" equipment affordable. They make it, but having to take out a second mortgage to buy a sleeping pad makes me think twice. My son is a new Boy Scout. We "car camped" in Cub Scouts mostly in warmerish months. Rules/Regulations prohibit taking Cub Scouts camping in "extreme" (approaching freezing) conditions. But Boy Scouts is a whole different ball game! They go no matter the weather! I'm 6'4" & run about 295lbs. Finding a sleeping bag I actually fit in has always been a challenge. Finding a sleeping pad long enough, wide enough, & warm enough is damn near impossible. I have a long, wide Nemo Tensor Ultralight now. I have not used it yet as we have not been camping with the Troop yet, but it that day will come soon. Fingers crossed that it works!

Aniken Skywalker

@Matthew Putnam I picked up the bison with gore wind stopper about 9years ago absolute bunker of a sleeping bag also run a thermarest neo air. You have to take precautions with down though.

muurrarium

Or the most obvious: lose some of the weight... 6'4" is not that tall, you should have no problems finding a sleepingbag/pad that is long enough. Almost very serious manifacturer makes xxl sized anyway (for tall people). But yes, the good stuff always seems to be made of gold :P

Graham T. McNamee

Have you looked at ZenBivy? They make a double wide mattress and use a really cool quilt sleep system. It's a game changer

Kevin Eddy

When I was in Scouts my dad cut a piece of closed cell foam. Like a yoga mat but thicker. Worked great in sub zero weather. Lo tech.

clown teeth

2y↑1

you should check out military surplus gear. often it’s a little heavier but it’s cheaper and high quality and it won’t be undersized

11 More Replies...

Pål Deisz

2y↑2

When tenting in winter always bring at least one closed cell foam sleepingpad per tent. I recomend one per person.
When your fancy 8R inflatable sleepingpad punctures, you still have something to keep you from freezing to death.
A closed cell sleeping pad of 14-15 mm will generally have an R-value of 3,5-3,9, thats not too bad for 600-750 grams of extra weight. And you can use it by a fire without worrying that flying embers will destroy it. They are puncture safe, but will ad a bit of bulk to the outside of your pack.
When carried vertically, it will act like the third leg on a stool and keep your backpack upright all on its own.
I see no disadvantages.

Frost River

2y↑8

Another tip I would add is to not over inflate your pad. There’s no need to make something meant to keep you comfortable as hard as a rock.
The problem with leaky pads is actually being able to locate the point of the leak.

Elizabeth

2y↑9

I bought an insulated sleeping pad, and a sleeping bag liner and they are game changers. So much more comfortable and I don’t feel any cold from the ground.

Noah Franks

2y↑4

Wow. I have been doing my sleep system wrong for like 15 years. I stopped backpacking through college at least in part because I couldn't be comfortable. I did not know about all this. I had a super narrow sleeping pad that I would eventually slip off of in the night, I had mummy bags that I couldn't roll around in at all so it rolled with me and made me cold. Really takes the fun out of camping when you're so uncomfortable.

Hiker Biker

2y↑2

I've been using a self-inflating (orange) Therm-a-rest pad since they first came out and have never had a problem even camping at the higher elevations in the Cascade Mountains in the winter. My extreme winter bag was made by Feathered Friends back in the early 90s and is rated -10. I've never been cold.

Alex Litv

2y↑11

I'll add a little of my own. When you turn on your side, your back will get cold. Compresses the insulation that was under you. Now he's on the side. If I were choosing a sleeping bag today, I would choose an integrated sleeping system and a cocoon. I would put a sleeping bag inside a summer sleeping system. Two sleeping bags stacked together is a very good idea. Firstly, it is warmer than one sleeping bag. And the second is that the integrated system does not overturn.

Rick Ritchie

2y↑23

I sewed together a sleeve to go over my Klymit Static V for those cold nights. I made it out of a thin wool blanket and a piece of a sil-nylon camping tarp that was getting old and worn out. The nylon goes under the pad and the wool on top, of course. I can't tell you the added R-value, but I can tell you that it is remarkably warmer than the naked pad. It does add 16 ounces to my sleeping setup, but I only have to use it in the cold winter months. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than buying the insulated Thermorest.

Rick Ritchie

@Kevin hikes Thanks. If you make it, make sure to leave it a little loose so that the v-channels of the Klymit pad still work properly... and it makes it easier to put on and remove, of course. Thanks for the reply..

Old Goat

2y↑1

I am too old to pack in anymore, but still do tent camping in fall and winter. Going back about 40 years, I can validate everything you say. I had a pad that was foam inside and something like nylon on the out side. It had an air valve and you could make it fairly solid by blowing it up. It was about an inch thick. I used a North Face bag and a small pack tent. Once and a while I was out a month at a time. It was so cold sometimes that the elastic in the tent hoops would not retract in the morning. I woke up to a foot of snow one morning, in Georgia of all places! The only problem I had and still do is the bag sliding off the pad at night. In the tent now I put a 3/4 piece of that hard house insulation foam under my bag. Not an option when packing, but good for the weekender with a vehicle.

Orange Crush

2y↑1

I know they are out there, but it seems like the ideal system (although there is never one perfect setup for every situation) would be sleeves: The bottom sleeve holds pads of various R values in place that you would basically lay directly atop. The top sleeve you would insert a lightweight down-filled and trapped blanket that attaches inside like a duvet or comforter does with higher end duvet covers. That would also make packing easier. It would save costs because it would be less complex than making a sleeping bag, and if the sleeve was made out of a slightly stretchy material you could be a back sleeper or starfish and be fine. It would also be easier to pack and depending on a few variables it would be lighter as well.

etuanno

2y↑1

During my time in the army we camped outside for a few times when it was freezing. We had a waterproof outside bag, then a yoga mat pad, then the sleeping bag and finally a thin, blue sleeping bag. Worked great even though we were sleeping on the naked, dirty ground.

TheCrownWolf

2y↑40

Another awesome video, Dan! Sending love and blessings from Australia.

I vouch for tip #7 a thousand percent. I bought a Sea to Summit mummy-shaped sleeping pad, and despite months of use (I tend to starfish a lot in my sleep) I could just never bag a good night’s sleep. I always had an arm or a leg sliding off, and God forbid I turn over in my sleep, cause I’d just roll straight off the pad.

Switching to an Exped Synmat (with 25 inches/~64cm of width) was one of the best decisions I ever made. Have been sleeping like a baby on all my trips ever since.

Guitar Lessons BobbyCrispy

2y↑4

I made the mistake a few times of trying to stay warm in a sleeping bag by wearing thermal body underwear that covers your entire body. I ended up freezing at night because the thermal underwear prevents the heat from your body from heating up the inside of the sleeping bag, so the sleeping bag ends up staying cold.

clicking on rocks

2y↑9

I’ve never had a problem with cardboard over a divet dug into the snow/dirt. Fill the 2-3 inch deep torso+ sized hole with something airy from the environment. Even just small sticks and leaves is fine, as you place the cardboard over the top of the hole. Tarp gets folded with two layers between the inside and outside of whatever hovel you set up. usually tucked next to a Bush or someplace out of the wind with the top suspended with a corsage.This setup will make even a regular 2-season tent comfortable so long as you have a fire going.

Or you can spend 1000$ on gear you will use 3 times a year and need to replace often.

- Flanders -

2y↑1

Lol. Yep. Why not just bring the whole bedroom set too while they’re at it. Pillows and all. Don’t forget the nightlight!

Jich505

2y↑3

Love your vids and find them EXTREMELY informative while keeping it very down to earth for the non extreme packer!!

my question for you relates more to car camping rather than hiking, but pertains to warmth while sleeping in cold climates. Sleeping cot versus sleeping pad for comfort and warmth. My wife has never slept very well on pads and switched her to a cot which has been much better, but she also is a cold sleeper as well.

Just wanted to have your two cents on the two. Thanks!!

Jich505

2y↑1

@Dan Becker I guess I was wondering if having the air space underneath the cot would be warmer than a good pad directly on the colder floor? Thanks in advance!!

Perry Skillman

One thing I've heard from touring bands is to crack the windows a tiny bit. Your body heat will produce condensation on the inside, and the cold will freeze it.

Dan Becker

I’ve never done the cot thing but can imagine it’s likely a bit warmer depending on insulation in or around the cot. Similar to a hammock under quilt.

GENOSSIN WAABOOZ

Mush Room

2y↑1

Something always overlooked is a sleeping bag liner. Not only does it keep your sleeping bag cleaner but it can also help regulate heat. To hot? Just use the liner. To cold? Throw a liner in it.

Knightbrolaire

2y↑3

I have the klymit V and damn near froze to death in northern minnesota with it. Right after that trip I bought a pad with an R value of 5 and that one held up fine in the cascades at lower temps. The klymit is awesome for summer temps though and I love how wide it is as my arms don't fall off.

0Stella

loved this! Still working out the fine details of my sleep system before I leave for cross Canada cycle on Friday!

SkyDriver

2y↑1

I've always known that you compress the insulation of a sleeping bag you're laying in, making the bottom almost useless for insulation. So I've always put my sleeping pad inside my sleeping bag, rather than just laying on top of it. I think it works a lot better.
In extremely cold weather, I always being a few $1 foot warmers with me in my pack. Activate, throw at the foot of your sleeping bag... toasty toes heaven.

Mack Starr

Just a note. I have the same Klymit sleeping pad but the insulated static V one and not the lite and has an R value of 4.4 and is a 4 season sleeping pad. It packs down incredibly small and weighs 700g. I use it all year round and never had issue with it.

cannontaylor97

Very interesting! I really like to do double sleeping bag when winter camping! It is a lot of weight but 2 sleeping bags one inside the other works well to keep warm.

Chris Chapple

2y↑1

Thank you for your video, I have been camping for years and I bought the original Klymit insulated static V when it first came out and consistently froze. I have since update to an Exped down mat and have never been cold again. The take away message is stay away from Klymit pads they are just a cheap gimmick.

WoodsBen

I've used the Klymit Static V in -18 C (0 F) weather, right on top of the snow. Slept great, and was super warm.

oregondork

Great vid Dan. I’ve done tons of backpacking and still learned a bunch from your video.

000 007

2y↑1

Went camping in the mountains some time ago.was really cold at night so I got some rocks from the camp fire , wrapped them in clothes and used for a pillow and also at my feet. Helped a lot

Joel De La Vega

One of the most informative and well put together videos I've seen in a while. Thank you!

Hubbit Gray

2y↑1

Hey Dan, great video. Certainly things that not all newbie hikers think about.

David parks

2y↑7

What most people don’t understand with sleeping systems is that you’re supposed to sleep with minimal clothes on. The systems use your body heat to keep it warm inside. If you wear layered clothes while sleeping it won’t get as warm because your clothes are blocking the heat from getting into the air void within the system.

Jake West

My wombo combo has been a Mariposa with cut down Nemo Switchback for my back panel, the 10f top quilt from my hammock, and a Nemo Tensor insulated. The foam is good for 3/4 and combined it’s like 6+ r value. That and with the top quilt I can roll around all I want. No where near as warm and comfortable as the hammock with a bottom quilt and bottom cover but I have slept comfortably in my underwear sub 20s lol. Big upside is it’s prob UL ~12-13lbs iirc I know the whole hammock set up weighs a bit more though.

Gary Arbogast

2y↑1

I learned a great deal from that video, I really appreciate the content and not surprised that manufactures put profit ahead of safety and comfort.

JJ

Thanks Dan for the information. If you can't get a good night's sleep while camping or on the trail, you might as well stay home because your trip will be ruined. You need to be alert out there and lack of sleep can really be dangerous.

Leverguns 50

2y↑1

When I go camping I always sleep in a hammock, never like to sleep on the ground, But that’s very interesting to see what modern people towed out in the woods with them, seems like an awful lot of complicated stuff, thanks for the good information though

Hobo Fabulous

2y↑21

Living and camping exclusively in Florida I've been more concerned with the heat but after section hiking on the AT I've been more interested in colder weather camping. This video is full of useful information and great presentation as always!

Hobo Fabulous

I use an old windshield reflector in my hammock tent. Works great!

Kalinin Dippy

2y↑4

Me too I lived in South Florida most of my youth then in North Florida for several years and None of us is really ready for cold weather camping. I live in Oregon now so I learned . I will share; if you are sleeping on the ground, take a car windshield shade, the metallic folding kind, put it under your sleeping gear. Million dollar tip.

jay son

2y↑1

I'm a fellow Floridian as well, and I definitely share your sentiment about staying cool during the hot months, but the month or so of cold weather (at least here in North Florida) certainly should not be underestimated. I went hiking/camping in blackwater in February last year and again last montj, and seem to keep underestimating how cold it would be. Woke up and it was 24 degrees, boots were frozen, tent had sheets of ice falling off of it when I got out, etc. It was quite rough. The cold mixed with the humidity here can certainly complicate a trip if one isn't prepared. Sure, there's no snow, but it still can get damn cold and rather risky if you're down a lengthy trail with no cold weather preparations. But yes, heat is certainly the primary concern the other 11 months out of the year lol.

Nunayo Bisnez

I've taken my Klymit Insulated Static V camping in low 30-degree F weather and was warm; but this is great info to learn!

James Hamilton

Thank you! really nice explanation regarding therms and rolling around, as well as fixing a broken bag.

Andrew Thompson

2y↑1

I'm studying your technique and applying it to my kayak camping. Though weight isn't a big deal most of the time space is. I'm looking for a nice sleep system that will make me comfortable in 20°F in a hammock 👍 any suggestions would be great

cdsmock

2y↑2

Excellent advice. If there's one thing I find as important as food/water on a hiking or camping trip, it's the quality of my sleep.

Dingo

2y↑1.8K

For every layer above you, you should have two layers below. All winter campers should be using a liner and a gore tex bivvy bag. Canadian army routinely camps out in the coldest arctic weather, our sleep system is a ground sheet, an air mattress, a bivvy bag, two down filled sleeping bags, and a liner and optional ranger blanket (poncho liner). It is important to sleep in nothing but your underwear so you don't sweat - sweat kills. The coldest I have been out is -60°C in the arctic and was comfy.

Rick Edwards

@Dingo You can crawl into your bag with damp clothes in the bag won’t get wet. The bag breathes. The myth of sleeping due in a down sleeping bag is just that.

gary mcnaughton

What a great set up to lug along on a hiking excursion!

gary mcnaughton

What a great set up to lug all that stuff along on a hiking excursion!

Old Navajo Tricks

Yup, it isn't about being warm, it's about not being cold 👍

Dingo

@Lobotomized Dolphin you don't usually get a vote, I'd rather not be out in that weather either. But, if I have to be out I want to be warm when I sleep.

129 More Replies...

Sophieslazy

2y↑1

I learned a lot of things, thank you! Not gonna use it at festivals for 4 nights, but who knows, maybe one day I'll start a real adventure and remember your advice!

Shredders

Wow, this was great! Helping millions of people to comfortably enjoy their ventures into the wild, etc., is a service to mankind that I will likely never achieve in my lifetime. While your service in producing this video probably only took you a few hours!

IceFalken Ace

Umm, how is sleeping on a bag on a pad, smushing it's inner foam, any different from sleeping on the ground?

Peter Signorini

That Klymit Insulated Static V Lite is advertised with an R value of 4.4 (as it shows in your video). My Exped Synmat 7 has an R-value of 4.8 and it is definitely a matt that I have used in all sorts of conditions, including winter snow, but not below about -3C. For deeper cold I would recommend the Exped Downmat7 which has a R-value of 5.9. The Synmat7 is 25.5 inches wide and has raised edge tubes that help to keep you located on the matt while sleeping, not rolling off.
As for the sleeping bags and moving, a few points:
1. Every bag I use I roll with the bag. This is especially going to be the case with a well-fitted mummy bag as you want to minimise the dead-air space in the bag.
2. A good bag design should have the down evenly distributed, or able to be shifted within the baffles, including front to back and vice versa. Otherwise the bag design is disadvantaging side-sleepers.
3. Since I have got the Exped Synmat7 I have almost exclusively used my sleeping bags as quilts over me as the matt is just so good. I keep the lower section zipped to locate my feet but the rest is just spread over me

Icehso140

I carry a thin sleeping bag/pad cover that zips everything inside. Slipping off you pad never happens this way, and the cover keeps the bag cleaner. Also, if conditions are expected to get really bad tempwise, a lightweight fleece blanket throw inside the bag works great. It not only seems to reflect body heat back to you, but it takes up that air space around your body inside the bag that needs to be kept warm by your body. Camping Mt Washington one February was not a problem with this system at the Hermit Lake shelters. Air filled pads alone don't work in cold temps because of basic thermo dynamics I believe. Any air space larger than 1/4 inch will actually create air currents that will circulate from warm body side to cold ground side, and an insulated filling stops those air currents. Good video.

Ah Jodie

2y↑3

Funny...I always hated the freezing part of sleeping when camping...now I know how to fix that.

Tom Smart

Thank you for calling Klymit out on their marketing lies. They know perfectly well their "insulated" pads are only R-value 1.9, but they continue to claim they're actually R-value 4.4 and suitable for winter camping. I have discussed this with their customer support, and Klymit is completely unapologetic about it. Because their pads are so cheap, I foolishly bought three. I have never been so cold in my life in conditions that a true R-4.4 pad would have handled with no problem. I had to bail to my car for the next few nights. Thought maybe it was a fluke and tried using the Klymit again on another trip with the same result. Shame on Klymit.

Martha Bakry

2y↑2

I just want to back him up on the point of having a repair kit with you, whether backpacking or car camping. I keep a kit with spare parts- bulbs, patches, pole splints, extra mantles, scissors, needle and thread, adhesive, etc. for spot repairs to any of my equipment. I put these things in a small box like a baby wipe container that you can grab and go. Be sure to update adhesives regularly since they may dry out after a while.

Donny Zarra

Dan, I have a Therm-A-Rest All Season. It’s the long and wide. I love it because it’s extremely durable, but it’s on the heavy side. How does the Nemo Tensor compare to the X-Therm as far as warmth, weight, and durability?

Lara Sabio Moreno

Would you recommend a cheap, thin mat to protect the pads from punctures?

Marko Mertala

A good vid for all beginners, Ive made all the misstakes and its not cheap to buy these if you good quality stuff, have 4 sleeping bags, 2 sleeping mats and 2 quilts. Now i have the setup that works best for me, a little bit bigger sleeping pad and a quilt. Still use the old ones depending on the weather thou. Wish this vid came out before I started camping :D

Cliff Furgison

2y↑1

I had one of those Klymit pads. It was supposed to be in the upper 30's and it dropped down to 26F. I was pretty cold. Survivable, wasn't ever nervous. But don't sleep much at all. Still use it 3 season.

Jason Kirkpatrick

I want to thank you I have learned a lot from you I did part of the PCT Trail 3 years ago and I took some of your knowledge with me

James

A lot of good advice, especially for novices. As retired 🇨🇦Army, I have some experience(s) sleeping outdoors in the “Great White North”, glad to share if anyone interested.

Aorakis

2y↑1

Speaking of upright positions while sleeping, and people turning moving a lot at night. Those questar, parsec, obéron, etc.. models from Thermarest got that really effective mattress-fixing system, which allow to fix the SBag to the mattress so you can turn around inside while keeping all the good loft around you on the top. Which works really great. It's not just a simple cord or strap, it really love the mattress on two point so it really stick better to it.

Cant' agree more about the wide size sleeping pad. It is a bit heavier. Like 100g. Which is a weight I'm keen to carry as it is much more confortable at night which also means, a better overall resting sleep

For now I'm trying the 1p exped winter synthmat and it works greatly but could be really sweaty if used in the summer. (there I'm on the old, too narrow and noisy neoair)

Cheers from belgium

allfgh239

Upgrading to a wide sleeping pad was well worth the slight weight increase for me.

Loiczzr

2y↑41

Nice video, thank you. Now, for ppl like me who can't afford a $600 sleeping bag with a $300 pad and a $800 tent what would be the options ? Would wool blanket work ? (For let say a 32°f weather)

Pelican1984

@Steve Hoffmann This is what I did 40 years ago as a starving student. Works extremely well and does not cost a fortune.

Bill in Roswell GA

2y↑2

Its simple. Buy used gear. Many hikers upgrade over time. I see lots of good down bags and quality sleeping pads for sale all the time. BPL, Reddit, Gear Trade. I just a Thermarest Xlite Regular Womens R4.9, barely used but old valve, for $85 - new its $200.

Girtis Holland

2y↑2

@Pleasant Faced Man I am a backpacker and you said it right. Less weight does not mean better. What I take for long hikes is not what I necessarily want to take. I do it for the sake of weight. When I’m going camping or an overnighted I bring out gear I prefer to use and it is generally way cheaper gear, but has far better performance in comfortably.

Philip Butler

2y↑1

You can take plastic bags ie Walmart etc and roll them up like a rope and knit them together to create a sleeping pad. You can take two or three sleeping bags and put one on the pad you made and then sleep in the second bag and take the third bag and put it over you like a blanket. Protecting yourself from the ground is very important. Lots of ways to achieve warmth.

Aaron Henderson

2y↑4

Good thermal underwear, several sleeping bags of varying sizes that nest within one another, good socks that fit properly, hoodies and sweatpants, foam role+mylar emerg blanket from the dollarstore as a sleep pad, wool blanket as floor cover beneath everything. Wear a toque to sleep. Don't restrict blood flow with tight fitting clothing, lots of layers to bed. Your "pajamas" or whatever clothes you wear to sleep are as important as the rest of your sleep system. And just be prepared to leave or stay up all night the first few times you are out in the cold weather. once you've figured out a comfortable system, it's all easy peazy, but being cheap usually takes some experimentation. I would suggest "mock" cold camping in your backyard before trying it on a weekend trip where you are far from home.

5 More Replies...

Justin M.

2y↑4

I live in AZ and have never had to be too concerned with this type if info. I'm now looking at traveling into our mountains and out of state... thank you for sharing this info!!!

Chaz Maxwell

damn i learned a lot watching this video. didn't know there were ratings on each ones and that they had a standard rating system I use a klymit pad the issues i've run into is either too narrow a pad or too short of a pad and regretted it.

Ken Webster

Sleeping pads or a low R rating can be vastly improved by placing them on a thermal ground sheet. The warmer the pad, the less this will improve it. I would prefer most of the insulation on the under side of a sleeping bag, because I turn the bag upside down so I can have my head under the open hood. ie I use the the hood is a quilt for my head, because it's warmer as my face is completely covered. but they don't make bags that way so the best available is a bag with both sides filled the same.

Schultz Outdoors

2y↑12

Just to keep it simple I always add 10 degrees to what my bag rating is. For example a 0 degree bag is really good to 10 degrees and a 20 degree is good to 30 degree's and so forth. Also as far as bag size goes, yes you need one sized correctly for your body but you also have to figure you will bring a bit of gear in the bag with you to keep from freezing (Warm Nalgene, socks, electronics) so you should size for that as well.

Caleb Wheeler

2y↑1

I made the #4 mistake a few years ago going to alaska. Took the measurements and the sales guy at their word. When I got to the drop camp firat night I found out I couldn't zip it. Had to pile clothes and game bags under me and use it as a blanket. The sleeping bag liner was a life saver or I wouldn't have been able to stay out.

Morgan Andreasson

2y↑1

They ought to have some way of affixing the sleeping bag to the pad, so that it won't rotate with you when you turn around (for us chaotic sleepers who turn from side to side a lot). Short straps, loops, carabiner hooks, whatever. One or two on each side around the hip region would probably be enough.

Whitey Fisk

Get some silcone caulking and make zig zags along the length of your sleeping pad. Youre welcone

54 Degrees North

Great video mate, I’ve been hiking for years but new to wild camping, my first one tomorrow night, I always go out the top on my gear, but bought it before seeing this vid, lucky enough double checked it all and I’m good, new subscriber 🥾🏔❤️

Wookiemonsterfreak

2y↑1

I use a silk liner that allows me to slide inside the bag so the bag stays put. It’s great, breaths well, and keeps the bag a bit cleaner.

Starting-Simple

2y↑28

Excellent video Dan, I really enjoyed you having all the gear present to show exactly what you were speaking on. I picked up a 20" pad trying to save weight and space-only to trade out for a 25" after having to sleeping like a vampire. I traditionally run marathons in my sleep, so it was a lesson learned the hard way! Take Care!

dandeleona

2y↑2

Since the bottom of the bag is crushed and no longer insulating, put the air mat inside the bag. It stabilizes the mat with bag so they work as a team, not sliding off into the side of the shelter, secures the sleeping bag from twisting when you move, and your body heat suffuses the air space in the mattress, and is then held there by the crushed insulation underneath you.