Cali Lewis is the presenter of a popular technology podcast called Geek Bri… Read Full Bio ↴Cali Lewis is the presenter of a popular technology podcast called Geek Brief TV.

GeekBrief.Tv is a tech podcast that explains and sometimes reviews new gadgets, websites, and toys. It was created by self-proclaimed geeks Luria Petrucci (aka Cali Lewis) and her husband Neal Campbell. It circles around the idea of a Geek Intelligence Agency (GIA) that provides knowledge to geeks everywhere. The reason for GeekBrief being so short is because, according to Cali, geeks don't have time to hear an in depth report.

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Cali Lewis Lyrics

We have lyrics for these tracks by Cali Lewis:

2014.05.21 I met him on a monday and my heart stood…

The lyrics are frequently found in the comments by searching or by filtering for lyric videos

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01Quick Note from Cali | On my way back to work!!

02Geek Brief Radio | Cali Sounds Funny

0340 Seconds about a Geek Brief Feed Issue

04Quick Note from Cali | Hamilton Island

05GBTV #627 | What? The Apple Event Wasn't in Mississippi?!?

06Pop, Pop, Suck

Cali Lewis

07GBTV #557 | Best Job in the World

08In Bed with Don McAllister of Screencasts Online

09Update on my medical issue

10GBTV #685 (the REAL 685) | OEM Products from Sling Media, Boxee Box Remote, Microsoft CES Keynote

11In Bed with Chad Vader

12Happy Christmas | How to Make Marshmallows from Scratch, Part 2

13Update on my medical issue #2

14In Bed with Chris Brogan

15In Bed with Victor Cajiao

16Happy Thanksgiving! Drive Safe!

17MacBreak 111: Macworld 2008: Drobo

18GBTV #488 (HD) | MacWorld 2009

19GBTV #556 (small) | Scalable MultiTouch, Anywhere MultiTouch, 3D Computer Interface

20GBTV #505 (small) | The Google Glitch

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Most interesting comments from YouTube:

BrantleyFoster021

I had to check with one of my relatives who worked for a boss at a place called LaSussan.
She was a terrible boss who basically created an employee uprising where the employee's were turning to worplace Union's in order to get back every cent owed to them, pay rates were far too low - they were well below the award rate.
But one thing she did to my relative was charge for the store key that was misplaced.
After it was paid, she charged for it again.
When my relative specified that she already paid for it, the manager said there was no record even though it was in my relatives transaction history.
She said that she needed to sign the documents, there was no signature.
My relative specified that the manager was the one that created the original terms of the payout & still charged her again.
My relative was also trying to consult with her on not receiving wages for 2 week's, but she never got it back.
With wages so low in the first place, the last thing that was expected was not to receive any wages for the hour's worked.
I can understand if this situation occurred during the pandemic to a degree, but this situation transpired year's before it hit.
Why do such thing's thinking only of what you can get out of your employee's?

David Webb

@Phantom89 Your argument is pretty stupid. The future of every company depends on everyone working during their contracted work hours. If people don't work for the hours they are contracted to work then they are doing two things...

1, they are putting everyone's job at risk
2, they are leaving more work for their colleagues to pick up

Nobody likes a lazy colleague.

Of course decent companies already train every one of their employees. Maybe you haven't worked for a decent company that does this yet. I hope one day you do get to work for a decent company. That doesn't include trying to train everyone to do every job, obviously. Trying to train everyone to do every job would just be a massive waste of time and money. That time and money could be better spent doing other more productive things.

If you think the answer is for employees to take a casual approach to work then I suggest you start a business and employ a bunch of lazy people who think the same. I am pretty sure your business wouldn't last long. Neither would your management approach, you would soon be looking to hire reliable employees who work for all the hours they are paid to work.

PhilfreezeCH

2y↑223

I feel like we just need to treat management more like a regular job, same as a lawyer, engineer, doctor or whatever, and less like some ascendance into a class of nobility that justifies immense compensations and power.
People that aren‘t really good at managing other people would be way less inclined to take that management position if it didn‘t come with a pay increase. Which means it would be more likely that people who are good at it and enjoy it take those jobs.
There is just no good reason why a manager should earn more than a senior engineer or doctor and lower management should probably make less since it does require some innate skill (but most things do) but it doesn‘t necessarily require a lengthy education.

The only reason why manager make this amount of money at the moment is exactly because we essentially treat them like company-nobility. The manager of some production line is not just the guy with the job to organize and manage the people working on said line, instead he is THE MANAGER, lord of the workers, protector of production, next in line to the fiefdom of all production which in turn answers directly to the king of the company himself, which is given his mandate by the stockholder gods themself.

Edit: For roughly a year I have worked for a small-ish company (~300 workers) that had almost no management and instead it was worker-managed for most things. In practice this meant that every team (~5-10 people) had a team-leader that was chosen on a per-project basis, it was usually the most senior worker or the one with the most experience for that project, the team-leader would make day to day decisions and go represent the team at meetings etc (but crucially he was still a worker at worked on the project 60-80% of the time).
Then the teams were collected into larger groups (~10-50 people), each group had at least one dedicated office/HR person that worked in the same place as everyone else and was the point-of-contact for a lot of things.
And finally the groups were collected into ‚fields‘ or whatever like production, engineering, marketing, etc.
Each field had further dedicated office people but they were located in another part of the building. Each of them had a manager which would coordinate the groups and to a way lesser extent the teams. He also had regular meetings with all team-leaders and the boss.

That was honestly pretty great because in your immediate surroundings everyone was treated pretty damn equally and it was a very friendly atmosphere.
Also having a dedicated office/HR person directly where you work instead of in some other part of the building was so good! It was so much easier to deal with HR stuff this way, I do not understand why most companies have it as a completely separate thing, that sucks ass.

D. Peters

2y↑1

OK, last story. That truck driving job I mentioned really beat me up physically when I was younger from all the product and its weight that I had to hand load/unload most of the time. So I am now disabled, but my last "other" job was the airlines. I actually ended up giving up my public safety job of 30 years when that one came on because I was transferred out of my city to another state.

In the airline job, I literally did every single job at the station except the station manager's job. I worked the ramp and every job it entailed. I worked the lobby/counter/gate and all that included. I had experience and knowledge of 23 different airplane types that I had worked with directly from regional airliners to narrow body passenger and freighters, as well as turboprop cargo planes as well. I was expected to be the ramp boss (the person in charge of the ramp and its operation) when called upon as well as marshaller, working the cargo bins, loading bags, working the bag room, weight and balance...being the ground security coordinator, complaint resolution official, cargo agent...I was expected to performance audits of the ramp for safety and performance. I was responsible for the Operations position and all the documentation of all the flights, I was the station's accident and incident investigation official for employee or aircraft incidents/damage or injury. And among other things, I was also assigned all new hires for their training when they were released from their computer training (which in and of itself is about 40 hours before ever leaving the building.) Plus, because I was approachable, other employees would come to me about stuff and I'd help train/retrain them/mentoring if you will.

If we fell into what was called IROP status (you know it as delays/cancellations) generally no matter what I was assigned to do that day, I was pulled off to take over the ramp and get things back on track from our end, cleaning up the mess from others. Yeah my plate was full, but I loved the challenge. And I would love to get another airline job if I can.

So, you know the workload. What does that have to do with bosses. Well, here it is. My boss announced that the official trainer position was opening up. Now, I have been training staff for years...trained the new truck drivers when I was driving, I was a field training officer in public safety, I taught countless recreational safety classes to the general public, etc. My boss said to me during the "interview" for the position...I don't have anyone that can even come close to you in experience and skill. She announced the awarding of the position and it was NOT me. Needless to say it didn't sit well. I asked her what was up. And these were her words to the very letter, they are forever burned into my very soul. She said to me...remember...horrible boss topic. "Why would I give you the position when you are already doing the job for free? You are already training everyone at the wage you are making, so why should I pay you more? All I really needed is a person do to the computer logs of training records and I can get a monkey to do that. You are already training them so I don't need to give you 'the title.'" Let that just sink in.

Then at another time, the corporate office was changing things up with how they defined duties for each position. She said, again this is a direct quote from her "Corporate is adding new job expectations to the various job classifications we have here. Some of you will not be seeing ANYTHING added, some will get one or two...but (another employee's name...a supervisor) and Doug will be seeing ALL SEVEN new expectations." Mind you...I already outlined a lot of what I was already expected to do. And my official job title was the exact same as the other employees there and I earned the same hourly wage (give or take based on seniority.) But here again...those that do little do less and those that perform more is demanded of them.

One coworker, again same job description and wage, said to me one day "I'm not doing (fill in the blank.) I don't get paid a penny more to do it so I am not doing it." I looked at him and said, then who is going to do it. He looked at me and said "You can for all I care. I just know I am not. I'm not getting paid more so I am not doing it." I responded with OH, but I make the same wage as you and its OK that I have to be the one to do it? How's that fair, I don't earn any more than you and we both have the same job title!"

Welcome to the workforce in America.

Geoffrey Prior

2y↑6

I am on my managers poop list due to being 'disrespectful' by refusing to do 2-3 jobs at the same time. And when I mean at the same time; I literally mean it.

I work on the warehouse side of a massive production campus. My main job is to answer emails from production and deliver on demand/really hot parts that are in locations that are outside of the warehouse; where production order parts get seperated and organized.

The second job the dumped on me was emer part runner; which delivers replacement parts for damaged parts or parts that were out of stock at the time an order was pulled.

I first started pushing back against running the emers due to both being feast or famine jobs. Especially because the emers have an hr window between pick to delivery. There was just too much work for one person to do.

They then also had me looking for aging material in the warehouse; basically material we received but was not logistically scanned to a location in the warehouse. They then got mad when I couldn't find anything or on somedays didn't even have time to look due to being so busy. Yet they expect me to find these lost parts even when the other two shifts who have people dedicated to just doing aging; can't even find these parts.

Literally looking at lateral movements in the company due to how hostile my management is.

All comments from YouTube:

How Money Works

2y↑110

Get access to a totally free high quality newsletter every morning by signing up to The Daily Upside at https://bit.ly/386hAzi

Steve Chance

It's like if someone said, "I've flown on hundreds of commercial flights, therefore I should be able to pilot this jet". We take a grunt employee and give Hime the title of "manager" with zero training in being a good manager.

Goofy GrandLouis

2y↑1

Maturity is also an issue in both managerial AND political roles.
Most humans have issues controlling themselves, let alone others.
Greed, power hunger, disdain, pettiness.. It's actually hard to find real charismatic leaders (probably less than 1% of a generation).

Nayon

@Michael i have the same problem. :(

Matthew

2y↑1

Have you looked into remote managers vs in person? My current manager is awful but she was loved with her team. Two big differences, is she hasnt learned about our team and what we do, and that my team in 100% remote. So i was wondering how remote managers play into all this. I know there is the way we react online when talking anonymous we feel we can be ruder.

6 More Replies...

__________________________

2y↑5.7K

The biggest problem with my job is definitely management. I would quit but I'm self-employed.

NebulaNezzar

Skill issue

Emach

1y↑1

Man I hate your boss.. What a jerk!

Mamma Jamma

1y↑1

😂😂😂😂😂😂

BrantleyFoster021

andrew drewdrew

100%

77 More Replies...

Eric Spencer

2y↑1.2K

In my experience, the biggest fail of management has been the seemingly built-in disconnect between them and operations. The higher up the ladder, the more removed management becomes from daily operations, resulting in a lack of knowledge/understanding of the how, when, why things function (or don't) by the very people making those decisions.

Beware the Lily of the Valley

@Selrisitai Thanks for the correction, I'll update my post :)

Selrisitai

@sor3999 Right, but in a lot of jobs, they don't "leave it to" the people who know best. They meddle.

Selrisitai

@Beware the Lily of the Valley misled*

romxxii

@Beware the Lily of the Valley there's also the reality that shit falls down, and your direct manager is pissing upwind trying to pass your needs and wants to their direct manager, and so on and so forth.

25 More Replies...

drew2pac

2y↑1.2K

One area to consider is that progression into management if often the only way to increase pay. So let’s say you’re a great lawyer, you want to get to partner. You need to manage. But, they are completely different skills.

Someone could be shit at law, but a great leader. And vice versa

Caetano Santana

Exactly! Companies should really start developing more horizontal increases and recognition processes. If you are really good at your job but don't have the skills or just don't want to become a manager, why not give this person an specialist position? Increase their salary based on goals structured for them/their area? That's so basic but companies don't think about that.

The Thinking Mans Game

True..use the NFL or NBA model.where the players/ employees can out earn the Coach/manager

David Webb

@Dorian Odet As a lot of people don't discuss their pay in public it is a lot more common than a lot of people recognise. It is actually more common the higher up the corporate ladder you go. Loads of companies I know of have tons of staff that are paid more than half the directors.

Dorian Odet

@David Webb I wouldn't use the term "often". Let's say it happen, especially for very technical job and when there is age difference (like very experience developper vs relatively younger project manager)

David Webb

@mikfhan Your comment suggest that everyone in the world works in software development.

24 More Replies...

Sharpsheep

2y↑884

A simple solution is to have two tracks: management and technical. As long as pay and recognition is similar, skilled technical workers will not feel pressured to perform managerial duties simply to climb the ladder. Also, good managers who are not necessarily the SMEs can still manage and lead people.

Lawrence

@Legion Reaver Managers and CEOs of publicly-traded companies are both technically employees in this example. The CEO might have personal capital tied up in stock shares, but the employee has opportunity cost. Both expect to be compensated for their investment into the company, but I'd wager that the lowest-level employee has the most to lose (100% of their wealth, most likely).

Karina Lumen

I feel like theres a small sum that needs to out earn others but most people are happy with a pay the covers their current and future need plus an extra 20 percent of pure enjoyment. Which isnt that much for people

AlexR2648

2y↑1

This is why the military has enlisted and officers.

41 More Replies...

Stephen Chapel

2y↑234

My observation after 65 years of blue color work is that most managers get their positions because of cronyism, nepotism or plagiarism.

Julian L. S. Caesarino 2

2y↑2

Honestly that makes so much sense. Though it’s like you said nepotism twice 🤔😅

Julian L. S. Caesarino 2

2y↑2

Honestly that makes so much sense. Though it’s like you said nepotism twice 🤔😅

Julian L. S. Caesarino 2

2y↑3

Honestly that makes so much sense. Though it’s like you said nepotism twice 🤔😅

A-Woke

2y↑15

It shows from your comment that you were a blue collar worker for 65 years.

1 More Replies...

green frog

2y↑82

I'm an electrical engineer. Many moons ago I was asked by the General Manager to create the next generation product for our company. I said no, I can't do that, but I can get it done. He remarked that that might be better. I knew I was not the best engineer in the company, but I was very good at organizing work and getting the staff to do the right things at the right time. So I was put in charge, the team followed my direction, but I did NOT provide the design leadership, that was up to the lead designer. He was happy doing that and I was happy letting him do it. The number one management failure I have seen is the assumption that the person best at the technical aspects is also the best person to manage the work. Promoting the best engineer into management loses a great engineer and usually creates a lousy manager.

Chono

@psychshift depends on the complexity of the work. Should the manager of wal-mart know how to work at wall mart yes. Does the manager of a bioengineering research lab also need to be an expert in that field?

I would say no. They simply need to work with the team make sure they have what they need, who they need, and that they aren't wasting too much time.

green frog

@psychshift if a manger had in depth technical know how, it is probably obsolete. Managers worry about resources and setting up/following processes. Tech expertise is the domain of the staff doing the job. For engineers, keeping abreast of tech is part of the job, it is not part of a manager's job.

psychshift

I find this interesting shouldn't management be both I mean if their your superiors/boss. Then shouldn't they know what ever it is you don't about your dept? What do I do now or how do I do this? Or I need help? Management should know better right?. Classic saying oh I don't know I'll go get my manager they'll know.

Zaprozhan

2y↑2

The good general doesn't have to be good at tank driving, or shooting, or fieldcraft. It can give you some bonus points with the troops, but you first need to be a good general.

Lady With A Knife

2y↑5

Omg that's exactly what happened at my work. Not in my program but in separate neighboring program. They lost a supervisor/staff coordinator and management decided to shuffle the senior worker into the role. She knew her technical stuff, been there 20 years but she never supervised in her entire life. Long story short, multiple complaints of micromanagement was submitted, gossip of her snooping around asking staff to monitor their coworkers to ensure they're doing their job, and she was walking around at 8 am in the morning, every break time and every lunch time making notes of who's back at their desks on time. All emails sent by her were as urgent and she started to have the staff do weekly quizzes to test their knowledge (in person, at empty tables, like back in grade school).

kage

2y↑220

my favorite manager spent most of his time trying to shield me from the poor decisions of those above him.

John Denver

1y↑1

@DronePilot Flyby If the company was that bad that so many employees left so soon they must have been a great manager. 6 months is crazy.

DronePilot Flyby

2y↑21

Yes, my colleagues and I, at one IT contractor company, had the same experience. When our manager left we couldn't believe how things were being run. Within 6 months nearly all my colleagues, myself included, left the company and within a year the contract company was booted from the site.

Lady With A Knife

2y↑10

So relatable

Incurable Romantic

2y↑143

My experience of hiring and firing is that it almost entirely comes down to who you know. I have a friend who got catapulted into an unbelievably desirable position he was is NO way qualified for - because he was in a social club with the person doing the hiring. It wasn't even a club with anything to do with the industry in question.

Honestly it's why I wanted to strike out on my own, I hate schmoozing.

The Thinking Mans Game

That's what normally happens.. not everyone can be a manager nor should be

Brano Filipovic

2y↑4

In my experience, it mostly happens on personal level, not on skills or something. But I also think the people generally dont mean it in a bad way. I am very good when it comes to logical thinking and maths, studied physics, do programming. The closest I was to some high position was during a board game. We were playing a more complex board game, I won through some good choices, after the game a friend of a friend who played with us mentioned he is a top manager in a tech company and was interested in me, asked what I do, i told him, he was wondering if I am looking for a new job. I gave that a pass. But he did not mean it in a "bad" way, like to help me cause he briefly knew me, he wanted to do that cause he thought it might help the company. Sadly for us, people put too much emphasis on personal connection.

Max

2y↑12

It also doesn't matter that nepotism doesn't happen too much in top companies. It happens alot at the lowest levels which artificially boosts people, who then go on to work at the top. In essence this has the effect of screening top companies from nepotism.

I've seen this happen many times and it's international too.

John

2y↑433

The issue I see is most management poorly conveys information. They play telephone and expect everyone to be on the same page. From my experience everyone from top to bottom should understand the overall goal and how their job fits into that to an extent.

S Plass

2y↑2

In other words, a business is a machine, and not a video game. The point of each position isn't to be 'the next level', but is instead to fulfill a unique and necessary role to keep the company going. This same principle applies to war machines.

John Fossen

2y↑1

@Kyle Tempero I agree, however I don’t believe it’s much more than locker room banter type fuck all shit that regular people do day to day as procrastination… it’s probably sometimes sinister depending on the person? but It’s probably mostly just fuck all..

S Blijheid

2y↑4

It's not just bad communication. We, management included, seem to think that everyone understands things the same way we do. Everyone's background is different and therefore understands things within that framework.This is something I had to learn after I got blank stares and monkey faces.

NoExit NoProblem

2y↑5

@Grayson J. Stedman jr. Wow that sucks man. I think its a pride issue to be honest. "I'm always right, ergo, you must do what I say, no questions asked" The I'm always right mind set does not apply to career positions in companies.

Grayson J. Stedman jr.

2y↑8

So true. At my last job I was a senior manager at a small credit union. I noticed how disorganised the previous Annual General Meeting was, and how none of the staff knew what any of the other staff were responsible for.

So when planning for the next AGM began I suggested that we share the entire plan with the entire staff in addition to their individual duties, so everyone knows what needs to happen and we can get full buy in. Also if a particular staff member arrives late anyone else can fill in for them.

The GM looked at me like I was crazy. This is someone that doesn't even share their plans with the senior management team. My advice was totally ignored and they didn't even call a meeting with staff to prepare them for the AGM until the day before.

Most incompetent, egotistical and dishonest manager I've ever had in my decades long career. Glad I'm self employed now.

4 More Replies...

maxxon99

2y↑70

It's the trouble with the traditional career model.
To move up, eventually you need to move into a managerial position. You can't get a raise just getting better at what you currently do, for some reason...
So frequently this results in turning great salespersons into poor managers.

Terry Titus

2y↑2

that is why they are dead end jobs,got maxed out with a quarter raise after 6 months,was at a place that didn't give workers raises,some idiot stayed 5 years!

Ross Speirs

2y↑495

Managers are taught that they are more important for thinking about work than their subordinates are for doing work.

Robert Ågren

In most cases a manager can't be everywhere that they're managers of complains.

SkySoldier

2y↑1

I’ve never been taught that. I’m a retired Army officer, was a school administrator and now run a company. I will say in the military I rarely saw bad management, but in education I saw it everywhere. My assessment was that most educational leaders were not great teacher, and didn’t want to stay in the classroom.

Compos Mentis

2y↑1

@Z. T. I'm thinking about the work you should do. Now pay me $500. That sure was hard thinking.

theyakkoman

2y↑5

"First of all: what is work? Work is of two kinds: first, altering the position of matter at or near the earth's surface relatively to other such matter; second, telling other people to do so. The first kind is unpleasant and ill paid; the second is pleasant and highly paid. The second kind is capable of indefinite extension: there are not only those who give orders, but those who give advice as to what orders should be given. Usually two opposite kinds of advice are given simultaneously by two organized bodies of men; this is called politics. The skill required for this kind of work is not knowledge of the subjects as to which advice is given, but knowledge of the art of persuasive speaking and writing, i.e. of advertising."
- Bertrand Russell, from his essay "In Praise of Idleness"

Mr Cliff

2y↑4

I had a gm at a fast food job who thought that way. I wanted to laugh in his face and say you work at burger joint!

5 More Replies...

Arisaka99

2y↑260

I work at a car dealership and outside of the Insane turnover rate, 5 general managers and 7 service managers in 9.5 years of employment, the decisions made by management and ownership are absolutely brain dead like 80% of the time. It's crazy that so many people can make so many bone headed decisions one after the other.

The Thinking Mans Game

I hate the car dealership model.. it is outdated and horrible.. plus they are bleeding now

Phantom89

2y↑2

@David Webb well, didn't you just say people shouldn't be casual at work and for everyone to pull their weight? Here's the perfect opportunity for everyone to do it.

They'll be able to recoup the money long term if they trained at the bottom of the ladder and saw how their policies affected others as well as productivity. Since they're always so worried about productivity, they could see their policies a d how hard they make it for everyone to do it within the safety guidelines they expect them to be done in.

But if that's your attitude then you'd fit right in with management in making poor long term decisions. Kudos, you'd be the perfect prick of a manager that either gets their asses kicked, fired, promoted or laid off and then wonder why they let go of such a great employee that doesn't bullshit around.

David Webb

Phantom89

2y↑2

@David Webb people like you are why so many managers are hated. "Oh, you did something once on company time. Shame on you, you should've been breaking your back for us non-stop unless on lunch or until the end of the shift." I'll go a step further and solve your other problem you brought up about th e lower workers not understanding the higher ups and their decision making:

Do a company wide cross training. Send your executives and higher ups down to work and train under the people on the bottom of the ladder and learn why all their decisions aren't exactly great. In turn, send your lower workers up into the offices to learn how their positions work but don't let them make any major decisions without scrutiny.

19 More Replies...

Connor

2y↑334

This is why I’m sometimes okay with hiring management from outside the company. Management as a skill that is often quite different than the specialized skills required of the employees being managed.

InfernosReaper

2y↑6

@Baltu Lielkungs Gunārs Miezis yes, that is the real biggest problem with upper management. They don't understand what it takes to actually run the company correctly, so they come in with generic short term profit approaches such as "gut as much as possible and hope things still work"

DarthDose

2y↑1

@Carewolf A fat cat is a caricature. You only get them if you draw them.

Baltu Lielkungs Gunārs Miezis

2y↑14

I am actually 100% opposed to hiering from outside the company because upper management going from company to company and expecting to be able to run a HES, a bee farm, a software developer and a mercenary company the same way, they have no idea how the buisness actually works what it serves and how it does that.

Carewolf

2y↑4

A hope you like fat cats, because that is how you get fat cats.

Xman

2y↑18

As long as the person has an understanding of what the company does. If not it's gonna managed poorly with high probability

1 More Replies...

B izichyld

2y↑4

I’ve been turning down offers for management positions at my company for 15 years. The difference in my company is that becoming a manager is the same job I have now, but with the added responsibility of hiring, firing, discipline, and generally being responsible for every problem (of which are always endless) for a few dollars an hour pay increase. I tell them I’ll do it for double my rate and that usually puts a quick end to the conversation.

However I am always a supervisor of other staff and I always follow a few rules. The first is that I never expect anyone to work harder than myself. Secondly, I will always defend those I supervise when treated unfairly or with disrespect.

The CookieMeister

2y↑56

Can confirm, a good manager can make or break a job. I worked at amazon as a lackey, just some dude shuffling boxes around on a graveyard shift. I still smiled when i walked in (most times) because my manager was a super cool and charismatic guy. When he got moved up and replaced by some weirdo, i dreaded work and soon shifted over to day shift, even for a paycut.

PhilfreezeCH

2y↑223

Hey You

@S Blijheid "Only in America are people promoted to management positions just because they're good at their job." - No, definitely not! I'm from Europe and I have seen the exact same thing in France, Germany, UK, Italy. And I am sure you'll also find that in India, China, ...

chris smith

2y↑2

@S Blijheid that’s just poor work for their manager, you slowly introduce leadership to possible candidates ie giving them lead on small projects to give them experience, be able to see how they lead and see if there is further training they need first.
And then once you feel they are ready you put them forward for promotion

chris smith

2y↑5

Management shouldn’t be treated like engineers and lawyers, these are specialist roles with massive educational and technical requirements
Management as you’ve seen is best done by someone with experience and understanding of the field, with a professionalisation of management all you’d get are morons from business school

Management is managing other people it is inherently powerful, even if the worker is more valued their manager still has and requires disciplinary power over the worker

There is a push towards having managers that still do the same work as their team, for the reasons you give.
Additionally I’ve heard stories of engineering companies testing the entire departments including managers on their engineering knowledge, in order to make sure managers have the technical understanding to not be a hinderance

David Webb

I suggest you start your own company and show everyone how it is done....

Dreiiii

2y↑5

With a management role comes accountability and ownership. If the team fails, the manager and only him is responsible of the failure. He has a riskier role, thus the reward (salary) should also be higher.

6 More Replies...

Mi M

2y↑47

The problem I see is that a lot of poor managers are drawn to the position to boost a fragile ego. These people are generally insecure and see any opposing opinion as a threat. They're quite rigid and more likely to impose their ideas on those they manage which in turn leads to a pretty unmotivated and disconnected team.

La Gaming Note

2y↑1

In my opinion managers doing 1 huge problem, they just trying to control, in my opinion managers must make workers more passionate and discuss what they must improve, I'm going to be in marketing college and after it in managing university. Have been helping my friends who are making games find and help with new workers, keeping them interested in work but at same time make them work faster.

ribbleslap

I even feel it in myself. That's how I know it's true. I am in the lowest rung of my corporate organization, however I nonetheless pay careful attention to the feelings of resentment that bubble up toward the behavior of my colleagues. I so often have to remind myself that everything really is meaningless, and life is merely a play. I'm sure anyone who actually "knows " anything is terrified of this interpretation (i.e. managers) and I reckon that someday even this YouTube comment will become a liability.

Johnny Vivic

2y↑6

This right here is the most relatable comment I've read so far.

Jakromha

2y↑13

Another point is that most companies only have a top-down structure. People from the top choose who gets a promotion. A healthy system should have top-down and bottom-up elements, like a team chosing who becomes their leader.

KingUnKaged

2y↑120

The individual incentives to be a bad manager are far too powerful for most people to ignore:
Which sounds more impressive? "I manage 10 people" or "I manage 100 people"? Getting the job done efficiently means losing out on prestige and money because hiring subpar people who will never threaten to leap you gives you security while also giving the impression that your job is harder than it actually is.

L. P.

2y↑3

Directly managing 100 people makes you sounds like a floor supervisor at a factory lol

1 More Replies...

Filler Name

2y↑52

In the military we used to say that shit floats when referencing the type of people that seem to rise to power.
Another friend pointed out that once a company gets bad leadership they always promote people who subconsciously they share a lot in common. This continues the poisoning of the management pool until it is so sick and toxic that the business is likely to die.
Bad middle managers and lower managers realize that if they promote the hardest most competent workers there will be none left to cover for their incompetence. So they must promote the lesser employees so that the work still gets done and the newly promoted are never a threat to their boss as they are also too incompetent to take their managers job from them.

Filler Name

2y↑2

@Cosmic Treason No, it was actually referenced by a professor of mine when I was in college. If a manager promotes the best workers they will by default hurt the managers department and require them to find another golden goose so instead the hire the average person who kisses ass.

Cosmic Treason

Is that last paragraph part of the Peter principle or does it have a different name? I’ve been denied advancement because my competence has been a threat to people above me

uncreativename

2y↑9

One thing I've learned, if you've built up good will and reputation with the people above you, if they leave the company, it's time for you as well because your past reputation essentially left with them.

El Luminous

2y↑66

a ton of managers are guilty of looking more like babysitters or being particularly enthusiastic of useless meetings, its hard to find a manager that actually assigns tasks and for the most part lets the team members do their part while just keeping track of progress from time to time.

sor3999

2y↑7

I work in software engineer and bug took down our web servers and I knew exactly why it happened. CEO asks what can be done to prevent this? His brain dead solution? We need to have more meetings to ensure we properly discuss such a scenario. I'm pretty sure this was just code for "I have no idea." They love useless meetings because it makes it seem like they're doing something. What's worse was this person was a former software engineer so it's not like he couldn't dig into the details himself or just ask someone.

Aimless Savant

2y↑3

For people who are good workers they made management trivial. The few absolutely braindead or maliciously stupid people made it feel like babysitting.

Cymtastique

2y↑54

Can confirm.
I quit my last 2 jobs because of management.
The 1st one was a butthole, the 2nd one was incompetent and made my life difficult.
I liked the second one, but making a job I didn't want to do harder to do is just...not good.

I'm happy with my current job, but I'm still working towards my dream job. Always keep moving forward, people. And never lose sight of your dreams.

Purple Tiger Racing

I'm liking your comment purely for using the word butthole. Frankly, it's not used enough in society to describe people.

Thank you.

Purple Tiger Racing

I'm liking your comment purely for using the word butthole. Frankly, it's not used enough in society to describe people.

Thank you.

Agrippa

2y↑2

@hi im justin Maybe his dream job is to work from home, maybe it was bad to recommend him that.

hi im justin

You should watch How Money Works' new video about why working your dream job is a bad idea!

GeneralChangOfDanang

2y↑68

I do mostly factory work and in every factory I've been at, management was completely detached from the shop floor. They all treat the workers like they have the plague or something. This leads to poor communication of goals or problems and in the end it limits progress.

War

2y↑1

Word. This is a big problem where I work at. Not with our shift managers per say but departments that take care of everything related to materials, upkeep of machinery and making the list of "runs".

Reagan Harder

2y↑1

@Dustin Reeder This comes up in certain industries as engineering vs production as well. I've worked one job that had engineers on site, and in that particular case the engineers did a pretty good job of taking feedback from production on the viability of things they wanted us to do, but it can definitely become an issue if not handled well.

Dustin Reeder

2y↑4

Most managers don’t understand the technical side of factory work and hate being spoken to like they’re stupid by the shop floor people. The problem is, that’s exactly how most managers talk to shop floor employees anyways. Management and operations CAN work together, but the manager needs to have some technical understanding and keep in mind that his KPIs are not the only thing that matters. He has to be willing to go to bat for his plant when something is wrong or unachievable.

Aimless Savant

2y↑6

I loathe and despise this style of management but apparently it is more common than how my restaurant co. handles it. As in managers by default have to know and do a lot of grunt work alongside the staff.

Ádám Morva

2y↑7

In my previous job we had a micromanager who made 20+ of her subordinates sit through a TWO HOUR TEAM MEETING EVERY SINGLE DAY. If a good employee spends 6 hours with productive work on a workday, that it means she destroyed 33% of our productivity with her useless meeting, where we talked about topics that were always irrelevant to 90% of the team in the meeting.

Sikha B

2y↑1

uff 😂😭

Ádám Morva

2y↑18

I used to have a job where I had some leadership responsibilities. My manager wanted me to micromanage my team of 12 people and make useless reports and presentations to him about our work, solely because he wanted to look managerial to his managers. It took about 1.5 - 2 days of my week to comply with his stupid requests. But I was also the best technical person in the team, so our team suffered a lot due to bad management.

fnorgen

2y↑5

I call this "Bored manager syndrome".
The thing that happens when someone is set to manage teams that just don't need much management. As a middle manager in such a situation you have 3 main options:
1: Admit to your own higher-ups that your own position is largely redundant. (HELL NO)
2: Spend most of the day doing nothing. (Looks unprofessional. You lack initiative and will never get promoted)
3: Make up some new and proper management tasks to fill in your day. (DO THIS)
Demand daily detailed written reports from underling formatted in an oddly specific way. Hold lengthy and frequent meetings to keep underlings motivated and coordinated. Get personally involved in every little issue your underlings run into. Update the daily report template. Create elaborate, yet half baked cost saving schemes. Demand extensive written feedback from underlings about how to implement said schemes. Implement said schemes despite stern warnings from underlings. Update the daily report template again. Write glowing reports to higher-ups detailing all the hard work you've done to maximize efficiency.
You have now become Mr Important Bossman. Your underlings spend an absolute minimum of 30 minutes per day just dealing with your bullshit rather than doing actual work.

Jon Talbot

2y↑18

What surprises me is that no one seems to think management education is at least partially responsible. The way it is taught- as if it were a science, in a classroom, is the root of the problem. We have not adapted our education system so that people learn and do at the same time. That is how apprenticeships have worked for centuries.

Darren New

2y↑2

I've never worked for a manager that had manager training. They were all promoted from non-management roles, mostly because they wanted more money. The one guy who was doing an MBA while managing me was great. 99% of everyone else sucked.

Sapeidra

2y↑4

1: I once had a manager wo wanted the prestige and the might over people. He was a ok manager, because at least he wanted to do the job.
2. I once had a manager who was competent in the job. Maybe rough about the edges but at least helpful in everyday business.
2: I once had a manager wo was charismatic and also a sales person. He was the worst manager, because he was never available and unorganized and his words rarely followed actions.
3. I once had a manager who was empathic. Finally someone who cared about the well being of employees.

floxy20

2y↑3

I often think that certain people are promoted simply because they are willing to work long hours. Other more competent people may just want to go home at five o'clock. Many managers are frustrated because their jobs are so boring while the underlings get to do the fun stuff, like coding.

Baldarq

2y↑33

Didn't mention nepotism, a lot of management, especially senior level is based entirely on relationships not qualifications. Our company has had 3 CEOs in two years, all incompetent because board only nominates friends of the board. This is a common trend. HR departments are also incredibly nepotistic too leading to long term problems with hiring, staff retention and unqualified promotions.

J I

2y↑1

I think the more accurate term is "cronyism"

ASF

That’s not what nepotism is. That’s using connections and it’s something everyone will have to do, but if someone isn’t a good fit for a job they shouldn’t be kept on just because of connections. Nepotism is hiring family to jobs specifically

Nihilicious

2:39 - *mentions nepotism*. Maybe you're incompetent? ^^

Miklós Szekeres

2y↑2

There is another strange thing is the insane amount of managers for 1 department. I'm working at a very big company as engineer. In my team, we have 4 engineers for different areas, we are the people who gets the job done, who deliver to customer, who make the money. We have 4 managers (In-Company manager, head manager, line manager, project manager) 4 backoffice associates who are also called managers (delegation manager, office manager, finance manager, and one IDK what manager). And this is only a very small team. So it seems ridiculous that we have 8 managers for 4 employees.

Freedom Ring

2y↑70

I've worked in many areas of society, private, public, government, you name it. I have had great bosses and I have had some awful bosses. The great bosses were great leaders, had a vision and could relay that vision to you. They were tough, but they were fair. The bad bosses were just horrible human beings. It's as if they never interacted with human beings before. As if they were aliens on planet earth or something. Some horrible bosses were also good people They wanted to be friends with everyone. The problem with that approach was lazy employees ran over them leaving the employees who did all the work to leave thus hurting the company.

Nicholas Bonasoro

2y↑19

I was a manager at CVS and it sucked because we were never given the staff hours nor the resources to pay for good staff. They company always expected more from us while giving us less help to accomplish it. These decisions are purely driven by numbers and giving dividends/lack of caps for executive pay as a multiple of median worker pay.

Nicholas Bonasoro

2y↑4

@Monochromatic Spider That is not a foregone conclusion. This really depends on the culture. Do the executives spend time in the facilities where operations happen, do they cultivate an environment where when they do spend time with the staff, can the staff tell them hard truths without fearing for their job? Does the company have a history of including workers in committees that make decisions, and when employees give feedback does the company have a history of implementing suggestions brought to it. Has the company earned goodwill from the staff by refraining from cutting hours/pay/benefits every time a financial setback happens? It's not necessary for executives to be out of touch, the more we believe this to be true the more they get away with it.

Monochromatic Spider

2y↑2

Obviously. The bigger the corporation, the more divorced the upper echelons are going to be from the operational reality at the bottom of the hierarchy. They high-up people are suits, not geniuses, and keeping track of too many details is as much hell on them as it is on regular people. Thus the use of KPI's and spreadsheets and simplifying everything into a dollar value, along with the total dehumanization of the business logic, the employees, and the customers.

Black Girl Lavish

2y↑13

Management is also the biggest problem with my job and I also want a pay increase because my manager keeps putting more work on us but not paying us more. What’s worst is that my manager ADMITTED that they are putting more work on us so the company that already makes billions can make more money yet they refuse to pay us more. Also my company did not properly train us and they blamed us when we made mistakes when we weren’t trained properly. A lot of things I had to learn on my own.

John Martinez

2y↑5

Honestly, I quit management because I was tired of dealing with asshole employees. Just think about it - Imagine that maybe 10% of the population are complete jackasses that get off on causing trouble for other people, then imagine you are responsible for 30 or 40 people. That means you have 3-4 people you need to interact with on a regular basis that just love to be massive pains in the ass. It was literally killing me - my hypertension was so bad that the NYE before I quit, I had one glass of champagne and nearly blacked out. I quit that shitty job, left those shitty people behind, quit smoking and took better care of myself. I ended up starting my own consulting business (just me and a mate and 2-3 freelancers). I'll never go back to that, hell I can't - I'll probably die.

sephondranzer

2y↑53

I’m really surprised at how little you touched the idea of looking within more about this topic. I’m not even management, honestly, just can’t help but feel like 90% of people on earth are bad managers; they just simply aren’t all managers.

Terry Titus

Crazy how some companies promote good workers to be good working,bad management types

S Blijheid

Who told you leadership isn't taught? Try a business school. You don't even seem to know what programs colleges offer.

Jason Majere

2y↑1

@Aimless Savant I like to think of my approach as like an old-school mobster. You don't know me but what you hear you fear me. People I work with and manage get along great with clear expectations and hold myself to the same expectations. Help them when they need help, be a human being. Outsiders don't mess you as much as your not seen as a pushover. But I usually had pushback from upper management, which I usually shielded my people from, which I'm not ever getting another promotion as I don't ‘play ball’.

I had a new girl and she was hearing things about me from other people. And after working with me for some time, she like you not like what people say about you at all, you really nice etc. she was telling this to another person I don't work with and retelling the story to me. I told her she was ruining my reputation, looks at me confused, I tell her why and now she going to tell people I'm an Ahole. Lol, I still get a chuckle out of it.

Aimless Savant

2y↑2

Too many are taught by terrible people that they should be cutthroat in their approach. That if your staff doesn't fear you they will never obey.

I relied on trusting my staff. Trying to get to know them and give them enough leeway to get the job done. I was rewarded with demotion.

Jason Majere

2y↑7

A LOT of people get an idiom of power and go on power trips. Like they completely forgot what managers did to them and they do the exact same thing. HOAs are a problem for this very reason. And leadership skills aren't taught anywhere is schooling but are very necessary.

Ollie Lon

2y↑15

I'm so happy I learned about the Dilbert principle. I've always "known" about this for the longest time (I didn't know the concept existed). Throughout my years working, I've noticed that people who were less competent somehow "knew" more things than I did. I noticed that I would get recognitions, such as employee of the month, gifts, etc., for my productivity, but somehow others much less competent always got to do more things than me. My reasoning for this was exactly what the Dilbert principle states, that those incompetent are put out of the workflow. I've always thought this was unfair.

Jose Salgado

2y↑43

Hey! I think we all appreciate your concise videos but you really had me hooked with this one, felt like you wrapped it up too fast lol.

My wife is upper management. She deals with the owners BS requests all the time along with her subordinates issues. I personally couldn't deal with babysitting grownups for a living lol

S Blijheid

2y↑3

HR is the true baby sitting job. You'd be surprised at the petty, childish non issues that grown people, some with white hair, nag about.

The Rogue Rockhound and Prospector

2y↑25

I'm 1/2 way through my MBA program and I've found a stark differences between my classmates with management experience and those without.

Tom y Melon

What do people with management experience do differently? Curious to know how you can spot an MBA with and without management experience

The Rogue Rockhound and Prospector

@S Blijheid ok

S Blijheid

2y↑3

@The Rogue Rockhound and Prospector
If you have an undergraduate degree in management, an MBA won't teach you much. I remember helping an acquaintance with a tech background out while she was doing her MBA. She had an attitude too and I heard from someone that she was one of the awful managers.

That MBA seems more like a piece of paper that inflates egos of a lot of people vs actually liking and managing resources properly.

ChasmChaos

2y↑1

Could the difference be the fact that people with management experience generally have more years of experience than those without?

Supernova

2y↑1

@The Rogue Rockhound and Prospector . I plan to expand my knowledge but I don't think an MBA is the best investment of time and money if the goal is to seek knowledge. Anyway, good day. Cheers!

2 More Replies...

Blumoogle2

2y↑35

What I'm hearing is that companies should be a LOT more free in demoting managers, especially after like 8 months of not getting up to speed, than they ever do. Keep the salaries the same, but return them to their previous job, and do this consistently and often enough to remove most of the sting and stigma in the company culture, while also ensuring that a demotion isn't a permanent black mark for later promotion. It shouldn't even be "disciplinary" in nature, just an automatic process based on performance.

Even better idea: instead of promotions, every time an employee does something promotable, give them the strong recognition of guarunteeing them a constant pay, leave and perk entitlements they already have (with regular annual increases contractually guaranteed) but guaranteed decrease in their required work hours by 5 hours per week and keep their responsibilities the same; an effective per-hour increase in pay, no decrease in total monthly take-home pay or perks, acknowledgement of increased productivity and more free time.

I know that there were a few times in my career that I would have taken an extra hour of automatically scheduled PTO every day for the rest of my job instead of a promotion, as long as my payslip stayed the same and my annual increases stayed the same.

Bleiser

@demonfire691 Good performance is often subjective. What i mean is that it's often times up to people to decide if someone is good or not. Often it's not even about their performance but their social skills, how they look and act etc, their likeness. If people like someone, they will perceive them as better in everything they do than they really are. Someone might be really good at their job but looks ugly, perhaps has some speech problem or in general something that people dislike for some reason personally. What I am saying is that situation would be exploited and used wrong all the time.

demonfire691

2y↑7

@Jesse but if Joe is excellent with customers and gets them to want to come back and brings more revenue in for McDonald’s, why shouldn’t he be paid more? He might be a bad leader and a fantastic employee deserving of recognition

Jesse

2y↑2

So if Joe at McDonalds went from making $10 an hour and got promoted to manager making $20 an hour, but Joe ends up being a terrible manager. So what you're saying is to demote Joe back down to cook/cashier/drive thru but allow him to still be paid $20 an hour while the rest of the employees get paid their $10 an hour. lol

Jeff Fielhauer

2y↑2

For many businesses you don't actually need management. There's a movement now to get rid of middle management and replace them with HR/project managers. You can pay your top performing producers a lot more than the HR and project management staff.

Strongside

2y↑4

Latency is an issue as well. It crosses paths with the Peter principle too, but in my specific case as a junior level manager, I was in the field less than a year ago and still manage at the field level. My boss was in the field 10 years ago, but he manages at the field level too. Every step above him requires so much time in management and out of the field that things changing at the base level go completely unseen. You end up with 4 tiers of upper management that simply do not know how to fix major problems that are beyond the scope of lower level management.

Mike Daniel

2y↑1

You hit the nail on the head at 8:25 - the reason people want to become managers is because of prestige and compensation. If you accept that management is just another necessary job function, pay them the same as those they supervise. This keeps the sociopaths out because then the only incentive to become a manager would be because you LIKE IT.

stevek917

2y↑7

The worse managers are usually those people who only think about getting promoted to manager. These are those that apply for every management job that comes available even though they are not qualified and may have very limited experience. Getting into a position of power over others is the only goal. Frequently these are also the people that grossly over estimate their own skill and knowledge of their current job. They tend to think they are the top employee even when by all measures and feedback they are not.

Merit Coba

2y↑10

The principle described here I have seen at work: promoting someone away to get him out of the way.
Another mechanism is that people don't know if they make good managers. It isn't that easy to judge yourself because you have not been in that position. So those that don't care if they are good or think they are, have an advantage in that they actually seek that promotion while the others might not apply.
Another mechanism is that some managers might not want to promote their best workers because they then would loose that worker.
Another mechanism is that managers might promote someone regardless of his competence because he is prepared to do the job. This happened when they outsourced the IT department in my company. People were promoted to get rid of the old IT management because they were prepared to outsource it. In fact they even hired a manager from the outside and parachuted him in because he did the job and then when he was done he left and the sitting management could blame it all on him.
Another mechanism is that it is hard to fire someone for incompetence. You need proof that stands up in court and it is hard to proof incompetence. And in fact, I have never ever heard of anyone being fired for incompetence. As an example: outsourcing the IT department was supposed to cut costs with millions, In fact it was the reverse: IT costs rose substantially for years while the performance went down. At some point company confidence in the IT was at a low 2 out of 10 score. Did the guy in charge get fired? Nope, he stayed on and now runs the finance department.
Yet another thing is that some managers are actually nice people even though they are terrible at their job.
And another mechanism is that when you remove a manager you need a new manager to replace him or her. This new manager is often an unknown quantity unless he or she has a long proven record in a similar function, but this is rare. It is the same as when applying to a job: they want you to have experience, but you need a job to get that experience. So if you have none, they won't hire you, and thus you get no experience in that job.

Benjamin Joseph Bruner

2y↑5

My problem with management is that they want things done a very specific way and I have a habit of not always doing what people tell me, so there's often a lot of friction 😅

Gavanater7

2y↑122

This doesn't just apply to companies. Militaries and governments, religious groups all have management issues

The Thinking Mans Game

Religious!. Omg.. those are horrible and tend to be narcissistic too

Biouke

@Robert Ågren Cooperatives, holacracy... More horizontal and/or democratic organisations of the working place exist and can meet their objectives.
In fact some of those existential questions are much easier to answer when as a worker you actually co-own your company with your colleagues. You know why you work, who you work with, how to work efficiently. You trust the manager because you took part in the recruitment. You trust your team leader because your team decided to put him/her in charge and you took part in the process. And you do extra hours and work diligently because you partially own the entreprise.

Robert Ågren

It be funny if there was no manager and everyone end up asking existential questions why we're at work, what's our task again, what's the point with this, who are these people I work with really, I didn't hired them. Why must it be so hard to do a favor for once. How come all do the same task only because it's more fun and we get less paid for our working hours. Perhaps we're living in a society of three. Is it why we're always three in every task. Now the contractor is mad because we YOLO through the hours, yesterday is a whole year ahead, there's plenty of time to finish the task yesterday.

slowfuse

2y↑3

@Biouke this guy gets it

Biouke

2y↑4

Maybe hierarchy is the actual root of the problem.

2 More Replies...

Leah D

2y↑3

My last job (government) just had TOO MANY managers. I worked on a team of about 13, one of which was a manager. Under her, there were 4 supervisors, one who only supervised one other person. And my supervisor was appointed after a reorganization, because he had previously been a supervisor. I pretty much planned and ran our projects and he approved my time off. So glad I left.

Andrew Leese

2y↑4

I have been a manager in a number of different automotive settings and even own my own shop now. I have always felt the bosses job was to find ways to make his team more productive. This can be done in a multitude of ways, but the most effective way is genuinely asking your team what the need from you to be better/more productive at there job. This gets lost on so many managers.

_Red_Panda_

My bro in law was one of the only guys in his team kept on in an auto place in Australia. After ice rain 🌧 thingies big as golf balls damaged all the owners cars. ... they had little money and were mostly laid off but he kept as his job as he WAS a mechanic and he also knew admin sales and interim between the service shop... others were laid off. He was a tiny manager. With ALOT of useful experience.. 👌

davidjamesshaver

2y↑1

Very sage, Mr Leese :)

Catseye189

2y↑4

I worked for a year with an agency. They moved a woman from quality control to managing the receptionists in the lobby. This gave her access to staff schedules. She ran out five departments by micromanaging, poor leadership, screaming at staff in front of clients. HR wouldn't touch her. Nightmare!

La Verdad Buscador

2y↑2

I've been in fleet management for about 7yrs now. I was a driver many years ago. Went to college but that didn't land me jobs. Instead getting my CDL did. I marketed myself well, branded myself well, and found a company where odds of becoming a manager or supervisor was greatest.
I originally just wanted to be a manager because I wanted a normal 9-5 schedule, no weekends, and no labor. I didn't care about money.
That's actually still my thing. BUT I also wanted to solve problems and make things as easy as possible for my drivers. I figure if I take care of them, they will take care of me and the customers.

However I found most people above me hire me to deal with problems NOT solve them.
It took about 5yrs to find a company that wanted me to solve problems and I'm quiet happy doing it.

Kaylee F

I've had jobs in the past with poor or just plain incompetent management, and it's so frustrating. The management where I'm working now is very hands off. Nobody bothers us as long as the work is getting done and done well. The support is there if we need it, but we don't have people all up in our shit every single day.

Max Alberts

2y↑2

I've worked for organizations that were well-managed and some that were poorly managed. I even worked for one that was initially well-managed (a Fortune 500 company) and welcoming but during an economic downturn became poorly managed and tribal. Staff were let go and two or three doable positions became incorporated into one impossible position. And the problems extended into the partner's jobs themselves. About 1/4 of them were let go; the rest were forced to manage with one secretary for five or six partners. Then the secretaries quit, one after another. Consequences of the downsizing began to show up in partner's performances and client's grave reactions, resulting in a major loss of business. The individuals helming this hatchet job didn't even live in the United States. Now, in 2022, the organization has almost completely abandoned its American base. The managerial decision to downsize brought on an unforeseen (but should have been foreseen) disaster. This kind of organizational behavior has since become commonplace in the USA and almost no one so much as bats an eye anymore. (And of course the plans were formulated and carried out in secret until the very last minute.) Terrible.

LF1218

My biggest gripe is micromanagement. I am on the lowest rung of management at my job. I keep getting pulled in different directions. Do you trust me to run my area or not? And I’m always being yelled at about one thing or another. There are other little things that suck but it’s honestly mostly the management.

Crimson Fox

2y↑54

You mentioned the dilbert principle. I call this failing upward. I know of one particular case. She worked with my department and was so inept. So dangerously bad. We moved her to scheduling. So she cant perform the duties but we are okay with her booking us shifts not knowing who does what. She failed at that too. So we had her answer phones. She directed people to different departments when calling a central line. Again failed at this. She applied for an evening shift supervisor position in a parallel department (no experience in this at all) She had to take a three month course, but she got the job. She's pretty good at it. She can move people where they're needed she can settle disputes between departments and between her staff. Here's the problem. Each of these? Came with better pay and better hours and less overall work. You're rewarding failure this is a stupid way to do business.

Crimson Fox

@NullPoEx This whole event took over 6 years. We kept paying her more. She's a generational employee both her parents and two sisters work for this company. It's also in healthcare so gambling with lives. I'm very good at what I do, but I can never get more pay than the government allows I'm bound by union negotiations and the 1% increase per year and given what I signed was supposed to keep up with inflation that was a lie. I'm glad she's fitting in finally. I just wish it wasn't for grossly more pay for less work and we didnt reward her failures constantly to get here.

Alan Light

2y↑2

@NullPoEx - certainly individuals can do that, but the people who are the best workers are not necessarily good negotiators, and might not even be aware of their own worth. That's one half of the Dunning-Kruger Effect, which is basically the idea that the least competent people grossly overestimate their own abilities while the most competent people greatly underestimate their abilities.

In any case, it's all well and good to say what individuals should do, but a company and a culture that want a bright future for themselves should strive to reward their most capable people and to not reward their least capable people regardless of whether those people are good at self-promotion. You get more of what you subsidize and less of what you punish, after all.

NullPoEx

@Alan Light If you try to please everyone, you'll end up pleasing nobody. An effort should be made, but within reason. This time it worked, so I don't see the issue. And nobody is ever "stuck" in a lower pay job, they stay there by choice.
It is not your job's responsibility to made sure you are paid enough, their job is to pay you as little as possible to get maximum value from your labor, you need to actually negotiate for better pay regularly based upon merit, and actually QUIT when negotiations break down. Like actually put in two weeks notice and find a better job if you know for a fact you are worth more, and can demonstrate that.

Alan Light

@NullPoEx - the problem is that all the workers who would be competent in all of those jobs are stuck with lower pay and longer hours. That's no way to keep talent and is a negative for both the company and for society. It's nice that this one inept person finally found a place in the world, but what about everybody else?

NullPoEx

2y↑7

Considering she's doing well at her new job and seems to be performing it well by your own admission, this wasn't "rewarding failure" it was finding someone's strengths and putting them in a place to use them. It may have taken some time to get there, but was the end result favorable?
Someone obviously saw some potential in this person and managed to put them were they were most effective.. Maybe it was a training issue? You said she needed a 3 month course, but it seems to have done the trick.

E

2y↑7

Management is a skill entirely independent from whatever the company is actually doing or the service that is provided. I am a manager. It's taken me two years of effort to get my management to a point I don't completely suck at it and I'm still improving. Depending on how fast pace everything is and how much your responsible for as a manager determines how much time can be spent on actually improving.

In my field I need to be able to do everything in the building not money related, which is handled by an entirely different manager. This is due to staffing and if one person doesn't show up, I have to fill that role while still doing manager duties, with no real way to delegate.

CHR1SZ7

2y↑1

Management is not independent. It may require somewhat different skills but if a manager doesn’t have a thorough understanding what their team is supposed to be doing they will place unreasonable expectations on them and be unable to accurately identify strong or weak members, or to reward or support these members accordingly.

Aus Bare

2y↑3

One big problem with company management is never admitting that they got some thing wrong.

Jacob Robinson

2y↑44

I think there are two issues.
1. Loyalty and some competence doesn’t equal good management or people skills
2. Managers in a corporation are effectively required to act as a corporation. Cut throat and hard driven at all costs with a friendly exterior. Doesn’t come across as authentic when leading people

Jason Majere

Or the manager kind of gives the middle finger to higher management, I do what I want as long as I get the result. Their people are happy and doing well as they are shielded some, but that manager will never be promoted again and might actively trying to get rid of them.

BLADESTER

2y↑2

Having a test run for people before they actually promote them would be a better solution in a lot of cases. If they make the cut fine, if not keep them in the position they were in before or something they show competence in of equal skill

DJ 3DD

I wanted to be a full time DJ but then I started to realize DJing is one thing and the business side of it was another. Sometimes I would say yes to gigs just to have a gig and then I would end up getting overworked by the event coordinator or the people that hired me. A lot of times people just wanted to give “exposure” for my DJjing skills. I just ended up giving up the whole idea of wanting to be a full time DJ after the pandemic happened. Most of the time people did want me to DJ for free, but after a while I started not to like it. I just got myself an entry level job at a hospital. It’s boring but a decent check and I can still DJ for fun on my free time. Sometimes upload a video on YouTube but I don’t care much if I get a gig or not. If I do it’s purely family other than that I really don’t want to engage in any events specially dealing with drunk people. That was the worse drunk people always got picky with songs.

DAVIANO INGLESIAS

2y↑118

You left out office politics which is how most manager found themselves in those positions

Daivd1111

2y↑50

Vicious competition between managers are the worst. They want their department to have better output, so they invent unnecessary work or create problems just to solve them. Result is workers below have more meaningless work to do on both departments!

sor3999

This is more of a problem with higher up management. Maybe the executive level. Some Senior VPs think that having internal competition is a good thing so they put teams against each other or team members against each other. See "stack ranking" a management style that has proven to be toxic and counterproductive that even Microsoft phased it out, but it continues to be practiced anyway at younger places like Amazon. Old bad practices die hard.

Supernova

2y↑1

That shit eats me up. I can't stand blow hards whose only purpose in life is making up pointless task to take credit for meaningless work. That's the kind of thing that would push me to seek another job.

LJ Whitmire

The most important part is left out: how you view your job is largely controlled by your manager, that's also true for your manager. Even if I want to be a good manager to my reports, ultimately I'm in this to make money and the best way to do that is to give my direct manager what they are looking for. Always look at what people are incentivized to do. Most people don't really have the go getting attitude, so that might be given a promotion and that's where they stay until given something else.
The people who rise through the org either get what they want or they leave and get it somewhere else. Thus an ineffective org will sift out the the worst and the dullest over time. Happens to every big company. I've seen it in person and I see it with all the big tech companies.

DGLS 3

2y↑1

At the job that I left, the company was very proud of the fact they “promote management form within the company “ usually they were the best suck up or slowest operator.

Patricia A

2y↑3

This is so true in my experience. My previous job I had the nicest, most understanding manager. I worked hard mostly because I didn't want to let her down. She literally let me get time off to interview for my current job. A bad manager would have retaliated. I quit the job because the senior management above my direct supervisor were nitpicky and micromanaging blowhards.

Memes of Production

2y↑20

When I was being on-boarded in my first company. There was this girl who had been hired for a coding role. The problem was she was too dumb to go to that team and overqualified to go to IT teams. Eventually, she ended up becoming Manager of a Monitoring team.

RP forever

@Jason Koroma tell me about it. Seen it so many times, most recently, my line mgr was hired though she obviously wasn't qualified for the job. She claimed depression cos of work stress and left within a few months. I took over her role only to realise it took me just a few hours every MONTH to cover her duties.

Jason Koroma

1y↑1

@RP forever Yes its extremely infuriating as it excludes more competent candidates, and dumps more responsibilities on the workers.

RP forever

2y↑4

Women gets ahead just for existing.

Sophia Smith

When I was 14 my manager only graduated me to the register at McDonald's because he had to because too many people called out that day. I learned that day never believe you get a "promotion" because you were good or the best. He also told me that I kept the lobby and parking lot so clean. Cleaning the lobby was less stressful except on the days that corporate decided to visit.

VanessLife Tag Force Special! ♥

2y↑34

Hey I've spoken with a couple of MBAs and they love giving themselves pats on the back for just talking incoherently and thinking they've got you to dance to their tunes when you know it's BS. This was and is the OG "management" degree.

LTNetjak

The Dilbert Principle is real. I'm consistently passed over for management because I'm really good at what I do. I get those mythical exceeds expectations on evaluations. Companies are scared to move me up the ladder.

Of course, they don't realize I get tired of them trying to avoid losing me and lose me to another company where I naively try again.

jk hancock

Like any other job, the manager role is something that you have to be trained for. It's a skill set unto itself. If you're managing a team of software engineers, you should not be writing code. Your job is to ensure that the code being written meets the expectations of the stakeholders and that your team/dept has the necessary resources to deliver the code on time and meets the defined quality standards. A good manager is a mixture of company politician, motivator, psychologist, and coach.

If a company wants highly effective managers, then they have to invest the time and money into developing them. Few companies want to do that. Better to promote the best analyst/coder/salesman/mechanic etc. to the manager's role without any managerial training or development.

D. Peters

2y↑1

Hombre Gato

I used to work in London as an Assistant Manager on a high end store. My manager was great and most of the managers of the big stores of the city were great too. Sadly, upper management was not, same Italy one (where HQ was from). In the end, all the BS they put us through made all those managers to mass quit. The company suffer for it and, inexplicably, no one in the upper management seemed to realize why things were going downhill

Riverbed_Dreaming1232

Often, good managers are ones who can do the job of the people they are managing, and a couple of tiers below that. They understand the demands being given to their team and the sub teams, can empathise and make decisions that works with the team. The best managers I’ve had were in restaurants where my managers would step in to help me and my coworkers if someone was off on break or if it got busy. This breaks down the higher up the ladder you go - a manager can grill with the line cooks, a store manager can manage the cooks and maybe will help out if there aren’t enough managers every so often, an area manager can manage individual stores but you wouldn’t see them manning the fryers. The core talent driving your business’ actual product has diluted out, and this might not be a bad thing as though corporate may benefit from knowing how to grill they will never have to do it, but hopefully if they can get low-level skills in managers a few levels up the tree you might end up with a more functional company.

Dave White

2y↑18

Michael Scott had the best numbers in the whole company (after Josh left). He wasn’t promoted because he annoyed the C.F.O, and members of his staff bad mouthed him (Karen), after Jim withdrew himself from consideration the job was offered to a MBA with horrible sales numbers.

Beware the Lily of the Valley

I don't like the idea of ever being a manager, but just wanted to be paid more. This caused a lot of stress for me during the pandemic when I was working alone at home and was unhappy with so many things. I'd worked at my job for two and a half years and even with taking on more tasks and working overnight for more pay, I capped out at $12.75/hr (starting at I think $9.50), excluding the $0.25 raise they gave us each year. There's not a lot of growth with customer service in terms of a call center, and that wasn't a job field I meant to stay within for long, but I couldn't afford college and lack any natural skills to do anything else (even learning to code requires being good at mathematics and the deep fundamentals of computer science, of which I'm not that proficient at).

Also, the job itself was very awful in terms of what we took calls for, many of the companies being extremely unethical (not illegal...but they would be websites built around tricking the consumer if they didn't slow down and read everything. Then they'd call and would be very upset), making each day of work one that was filled with anxiety. Worst yet was that these were what we received the most calls for, and call centers often are paid by how many calls are taken, so asking the owner, who was very frequently in the office, to not do business with thess companies would never happen. In the end, I decided to just quit.

I now make much more and work a job that while is still customer service, it actually has desirable adjacent roles. I have two people training me who used to hold my job, but they're not managers, so everything is a lot more casual. I might be able to also see a pay increase while still in my role (I believe this company offers that). I'm pretty good at customer service and like assisting others, so being a manager wouldn't make me happy. But with the guidance given from my two trainers, maybe one day I'll be ready to fill their roles if they move on and to train up someone in my role. That's much better than having to manage a full team of people and that too makes me very happy to work where I am.

Speaking of work, it's 4AM on a Monday, I need to get to bed 😅.

Schroeders Current events

The biggest problem with management is that they are trying to obey the orders of someone above them and press them on the people below them. It’s out of touch by necessity. Bottom up organizations are much stronger; but you’d need to have employees who really care and that’s not common.

That Guy

I feel blessed to work under someone who has genuine respect for me. In return, he gets the best from me, and I haven't felt the need to look elsewhere for work in years. I wish most managers were like him. I've worked with far too many assholes in my life. Never again if I can avoid it

Ralphie Raccoon

2y↑24

For those who don't want to be managers but want to make more money, there's always consulting!

Feaster Famine

In my current technical job I have had 10 supervisors over 4 years.
3 of them left me alone but condescended to tell me what to do when I reached out for help - I stopped asking for help and tolerated my job
1 of them actually worked to understand what I do and assisted when problems above my pay grade slowed me down. - I enjoyed my job
6 of them “managed” me - I hate my job

Geoffrey Prior

2y↑6

Tim Bomb

I think the irony is that people who ask themselves if they would be good managers are probably more likely to be willing to learn and adapt to become better managers.

CaramelSpice

At one point in my old job there were two managers for the team of three people I was on and it was the worst experience. Now I freelance and don't have to deal with any of that sort of thing and it's great. I'd never even want to be a manager, I want to just do the work in my skill set.

IHateUniqueUsernames

2y↑6

So basically, the key take away is that managers are fulling a specific role in a company and are not more or less valuable than the team/people they do manage. The problem then, is that everyone in the company fulfilling roles should be compensated based on the role's value to the company; and the prestige and usually better compensation that comes with being a manager should be eradicated.

This way, the Peter principle is pretty much stymied by the fact that an individual performing well in a task can be given better compensation for the value the creates for the company without needing to change their role.

While in the case of the Dilbert, perhaps a few more lateral reassignment will find a good fit for them, since there is no prestige or compensation concern, just a role change.

You never move "up" or "down" the corporate ladder changing what you do - you go up based on the output and how valuable you are to the company in the role you play. It would also encourage Peter's and Dilberts to be more proactive in finding their niche, because that's where they would benefit most as well.

Roman Semenov

2y↑2

There are many examples when founders get ousted from the company, and then the company miserably fails in the hands of "effective managers". While the companies you named that are still managed by the founders remain very successful.

Tobias The Derp

It starts at the top. If your senior leadership team is disconnected with customer facing operations… middle managers will continue to fail and feel helpless. Middle managment as most of us know, is essential for large companies to succeed.

Ninjaskyking

2y↑28

My management told me to ignore all the problems then proceed to make me fix all the problems. I do multiple jobs at my place and yeah I'm sick of it. Probably quit soon and look into self employment options through the internet

avengerboxer

2y↑1

Thank you, always great content. I declined the offer for uppper position, because I felt that I still lack some of very important skills and knowledge, and your video just reminded me that I was right. Someday, I'll be ready, but not today. They actually agreed to teach me to some of theirs shenanigans and they will repeat their offer later in months :)

Kennard Waters

I worked for a company for four years and left because of management. I ended up taking a slight pay cut but I admit it was well worth it.

Slipstream Videos

Your primary role as a manager is to empower the people you manage to do better and be better.

A Van Called Rupert

2y↑10

It's simple . People who want to be in charge of people are people who never should be.

The only way to get good leaders is create systems where people push people up from below not have them pulled up from above.

Roscoe Rascon

2y↑58

I was the best “Banker” in my city. And top 5 in my region for the second largest bank in the US (y’all can do the research.) I was statistically number 1 and top 3 in every category. My direct manager made it so unbearable because none of my clients needed a heloc, but she swore up and down everyone needed one. Didn’t matter how much I did for them and how high my scorecard was and how much my clients loved me. She wanted more helocs. She emailed me like 10xs a day and I was micromanaged to the highest extent. All because she wanted more helocs. It didn’t matter how early I went in and how late I stayed and how great every column was on my scorecard. How perfect my attendance was. Needless to say, I left for a 25% salary increase where I make my own schedule and control everything in my territory and my boss hardly sees me and is in town maybe once a month or two. I’m glad I’m out of the rat race of corporate America and banking in general. Micromanaging is the biggest bullshit and makes it unbearable for high achievers to want to be around.

BassForever44

2y↑3

Thanks OP for confirming me what I've thought about banking since always. Very interesting to hear it from someone who's been at the trenches

Supernova

@tiano lamas . Congratulations! I'll likely be leaving my job soon as well since I have been doing it for some time and can easily get paid more elsewhere. The only thing holding me back right now is that I enjoy working from home everyday and I need to figure out how a new job would align with returning to school for a MS. Coincidentally, I'm considering a MS in data analytics. Good luck with everything. Cheers!

tiano lamas

2y↑7

Kinda similar situation for me, I used to be top 10 sales people in my state and would always perform, but my manager was the definition of micromanager, (credit cards, push shoes they don't want, etc) so when the pandemic hit I transition to a more tech job in Data analytics. MY new boss is the best boss I've ever had since her Moto is literally, "Tell me what you need, Tell me who you need me to move, if you don't need anything you can cancel our weekly meetings." I once went three whole weeks without hearing of her, at all and there was no complain or anything, my project was delivered on time and we had a quick 5 minute summary of what had to be done. Love it here but will cry when I quit since this was entry level job and I qualify for more money now somewhere else :(

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Ali Hawary

2y↑11

the problem that I face with my management currently is they always expect me to only follow their rules of always coming to work on time and not taking many breaks that kind of BS, ik all employees should do that but don't expect the employees to adhere to you when you don't follow what you preach, these managers come late and don't stay for a full day.

managers are leaders if they don't have a good connection and understand they people below imo should not be in that managing position in the first place, instead of them getting angry and shouting over poor performance they should understand why was there bad performance in the first place to create a better work environment.

Juryrigged

2y↑1

My manager cannot do my job. In my org- this is a good thing. My immediate manager trusts what I has to say and goes to bat for me. That’s all I want from a manager- someone who is supportive. Where flaws in the system exist- is where the managers think they know better (technically) than their employees who have spent vastly more time working the problem.

Davkin

2y↑1

I resigned a year before the "Great Resignation" due to poor management decisions, it had just become more than I could stand, luckily I'm used to living frugally and had the resources to quit, never going back.

sor3999

I think it's more if you promote someone like a software engineer to manager, these are fundamentally different functions. Being good at one thing doesn't necessitate being good at management. Like making a doctor a software engineer and the software engineer a doctor.

TimothyCHenderson

The biggest thing missing from this overall analysis is performance management. Most company's will have no issues eliminating middle management if performance isn't there. If this individual is new to the company, then they don't have to worry about a package and will performance manage them out. A more tenured manager will likely endure being "pushed out" (the environment gets so bad for them that they quite). All in all, I've worked with some increadible leaders and some bad ones. I've also been a great leader and a bad one. It's just part of business.

tito lovely

2y↑1

one of the other reasons not discussed in this video is simply getting promoted because you're the only option. ive seen this happen quite often in small and larger businesses where someone either quits suddenly or someone dies, and a management position opens up, but there's really noone there to fill the role. in these circumstances you generally pick from what you got, oftentimes noone is qualified for the position but the position must be filled. ive seen junior members be fast tracked through 2-3 middle tier roles just to be put into a senior role for exactly this reason. i once saw a guy get 4 promotions in 3 months, and he skipped all of the so called "required testing and job qualification assessments" that everyone else at that level had to go through. why? he was the most senior of the junior employees.

Frith TheCrow

To add to your point, if a company has incompetent management or a toxic culture skilled and hard working employees are more likely to quit. In that case the company's options are to hire externally and bring in management unfamiliar with the company/industry or to promote existing employees who are unqualified for the role.

zster

2y↑7

This is the exact problem with ups atm. Management on top of that in multiple ups hubs, have been shorting worker pay checks. They also have lowered pay of part timers to 15$ and have unions in some areas payed off to keep it that way under the guise of contract.

Good workers are leaving in droves and management cannot figure why because they are idiots for thinking the monkeys that work for them didn't see what was going on🙄.

Gas shortage isn't the reason ups stock down. None of there other competitors dropped 230$ to 178$ from January till now. The ups stance on "better not bigger" is just management's way of gimping workers.

Ups has given all the bad management free reign now it has cost them the success they gained in the past few years.

Skywalker011

I have a manager whose background is in sales but he moved up in Customer Solutions. Big difference. We in CS are much more technically oriented, we barely have any contact with customers and we mostly provide system support for other internal teams. He doesn't have that mindset.
Yet, for some reason, he is pushing us to do pop quizzes in video calls, or play 'sell me this pen' tricks... Even though none of us are really interested, since it's not what we do. He only cares about keeping the image that we are a dream team, instead of actually discussing issues that are crucial. He literally created an environment in which we are not allowed to discuss problems. And he wonders why senior coworkers are running away...

Henny Zhi

I don't know if I view the situation the same, but take it with a grain of salt because people often tell me I'm too good natured when assessing people: often enough middle management sucks because the pressures of the people above them and below them pushes them into bad decisions. I've never been in that position but imagine being held responsible for multitudes of employees who are far more numerous than the company staff while having the more idealistic visionaries above you whom, while far fewer in number than the middle managers, often don't have much of a grasp on the grind going down below on the day to day work (after all, the middle managers are suppose to be their eyes on what's going on). When things go wrong on the company level your going to be held responsible before an employee. And employee might be responsible in many cases for something going wrong but your the one overseeing them and in charge of course correcting behaviors that lead to that bad outcome. So it's not even in a vacuum and if enough of these things happen it points to you being negligent. I'm obviously not addressing the comically unjust nepotism that happens - I'm not because aside from a very bad job market you'd have employees leaving en-mass and then the company is in far worse waters because it doesn't have the weight to support it anymore. But I can at least be sympathetic to the people who make sure things get done because I can't think of any position where you'd be more scrutinized about how you do your job.

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