This is fantastic. I've been in my house almost 4 years. So far I haven't had to do anything with my relays but I am in the process of swapping out all of my old switches with new ones from Kyle switch plates (Despard) which was a life saver. 16 singles, 7 triples and doubles. I had a master control panel in my bedroom that would shut off all the lights downstairs with a single push. It did like a round robin across the relays. For now I've just taken the old ugly controller out but would love to modernize it. The switches in my office appear to be tied into the outlets but the outlets are always hot. The wiring looks right in the outlet for the switch to control it. I can hear the relay click on the switch. Could this be a relay issue? Looking forward to checking out the other videos!

Smarter Circuits

Love hearing about other folks' experiences. Could be a relay, bit could also be on a separate leg. They tended to use a single outlet when no overhead light was present and the rest wired as you would expect a modern system to be wired. I wish you the best of luck. They're unique systems, but they'll improve your quality of life if you take care of them.

John Merryman

So excited to find a youtube channel with content on these systems! I recently purchased a horse farm with a very large barn that has a GE low voltage control system in it. A lot of it still works but I had been thinking of swapping out the relays for Shelly units - and it's super cool to see that I'm not the only one with that idea!

Matt Givler

2y↑1

Thanks for making this, I've lived in a house for 20+ years with two Remcon panels. Shocked to see they quit making replacements when I started the latest repair. Look forward to seeing the next videos.

Smarter Circuits

I appreciate the view! Yeah, it's sad that they didn't just take the opportunity to bring such a great idea into the next century. Could've been a cheap way to bring quality products back. A rare win-win situation.

Amy B

2y↑3

You are hilarious! Thank you for infusing so much humor into a lesson on low voltage lighting systems. I bought my house a year ago too and am trying to learn about these things. Thanks for going down the rabbit hole for me!

James Greene

Me too! My mother in law bought a house with this lighting control system. I was totally baffled since I'd never seen anything like it. As you said there is very limited information on it so I'm extremely thankful for your explanation in an easy to follow and humorous manner.

Smarter Circuits

That's great to hear. And thank you so much! I wish you all the best with your new found project!

Joe Arioto

2y↑1

This video is amazing. I’ve got this same low voltage system with what appears to be Bryant. Love the encouragement to figure out what I can do with this rather than scrap it.

Smarter Circuits

Good to hear you've been inspired! I'll have a video coming soon that goes over rewiring switches more in-depth. It may be a couple weeks before I can finish it--work demands more attention lately.

e sha

Thank you for this video!! I have purchased a house recently with the GE low voltage system and I was definitely a bit lost at first. After watching this video I am excited with all the possibilities that come with this system.

Smarter Circuits

2y↑1

I am glad to hear it! They can seem daunting and they definitely require some TLC, but in the end, I think they're worth the extra effort. I'll be getting back to some improvement to my system this fall. Best of luck with your system!

Kurt Fritz

2y↑1

Love the video. My house was built in 1954 it has a touch plate low voltage system. I’ve recently uploaded all the switches in the kitchen and hallway. One issue I am having is the outside light will not go on. Once in a while it will go on when I touch the switch. I hear the relay clicking so I’m not sure what the issue is. I have another light that gets stuck in the on off off position for extended periods of time. For the most part all of the other switches work. Love you hear what you think the issue is.

Smarter Circuits

My first inclination is a sticking solenoid relay. The plunger inside the device that pushes and pulls the snap device in the oddly shaped base of the relay can start to dry out (the grease) or the coils can start to fuse together and lose their efficiency. Eventually, the relay will stick in an open or closed state permanently. This isn't really as awful as most people think--even though the replacement relay can run upwards of $90--especially considering I usually see these relays hit ages of 25+ years before this happens. Often, these bad relays will buzz loudly when you try to energize them. Replacing them is easy if they're easy to get to in the first place, just pay close attention to the orientation of the relay and the way it is presently wired. Of course, there is always the smart relay route, but this is only as necessary as YOU feel it is. I wish you the best of luck! If you're a Discord user, feel free to join the channel Discord (https://discord.gg/5TXP65N7Hf) and upload pictures or ask questions and I'll try to help as best I can. Definitely check out Kyle's Switchplates--they're pretty useful for owners of these systems (I am not paid to say that--though, that'd be nice--they are honest to goodness the best source of info and parts that I've found online).

Daniel McAfee

2y↑1

I bought my GE low voltage wired home 15 years ago, originally built in 1960 by A GE executive with 6 kids. We are only the second owners. Thankfully, the original owner left blueprints, wiring diagrams and brochures for the system. We had to replace the transformer once and we've converted some outlets that were switch controlled to always hot, but it's been a rock solid system for the most part.. Thanks for your site!

Smarter Circuits

2y↑1

Oh man, that's awesome of them to leave that. I'm working on drawing out everything and making instructions for whoever comes next for their peace of mind. Passing it on, you know?

Nelly Nel

Thanks for starting this channel. Looking forward to your next video; I also bought a home recently with GE low voltage switches.

Smarter Circuits

Thank you for taking the time to watch! I'll be going back and forth with the low-voltage system, hopefully you get some inspiration from the channel, or at least a giggle here and there (I'll be adding more giggles, promise). Good luck with your house and feel free to drop a comment about your progress or if you post any videos of your own!

2323232 3232

2y↑1

As a young electrician I've never heard of this systen before until I got called to a kitchen reno. I noticed the weird switches and removed one to find the low voltage wiring. The whole house lighting was wired this way. Unfortunately, dimmers are a hot commodity with pendant lights, potlights, pretty much all lighting. Which makes this system useless as it can't be dimmed by are everyday dimmers. Other then rewiring. Is there another option for this to achieve dimming controlled lights with this system?

Robert DeMayo

@Smarter Circuits This video ever happen? Scouring internet for dimmer options that might be compatible with my Bryant low voltage system but it's crickets...

Smarter Circuits

First, thanks for watching the vid! I love talking to professionals that have run across these systems. There are some products that offer remote dimming options, just have to be careful of the bulb you use at that point because most of them seem to use PWM to "dim", but I may do a video on some various dimming options in the not-too-distant future. I plan to pick up a few devices and set up an isolated circuit for testing as well as a higher frame rate camera so I can show the PWM in action for those devices that use it.

Michael Lacaria

Wow, I was mesmerized listening to your video with your humor and enormous in-between-the-lines knowledge. The reason I came upon this in the first place is because my son moved into a house built about 6-7 years ago, that has low voltage lights, may be LED, lighting the stairs. They turn on and shut off at random times, he thinks. I looked for power supplies but can’t find anything so far in obvious places. I’ll have to dedicate more time and energy to figure this out. Any ideas?

Michael Lacaria

2y↑1

@Smarter Circuits thanks for the quick reply. The intriguing part was that I couldn't easily find the power source to these lights. I'll have to look deeper and start opening switch plates and HVAC grills and any other possible hiding place. I'm hoping they weren't sealed inside some wall.

Smarter Circuits

This sounds like it may be a different system than the 1950's version, but you may be on the right track to investigate the power supply. If it is controlled by a solenoid relay, it could be sticking, but this sounds more like interference in the control line of a smaller control circuit. Some interfaces for lighting controls that are newer can be susceptible to minor fluctuations in EM around the control wires if they are too long. This would be easy to narrow down if it happened more frequently during thunderstorms. Another possibility is that the bulbs/LEDs are not compatible with the control system or ballast--if there is one.

Rocket Dingdong

2y↑1

this is like group therapy for people living in low voltage houses - with the host, calmly relaxing everyone. Almost like a cross between Rod Sterling and Bob Vila. Yes I also have lived in a relay house for 20 years. Circuit's fail and I never replace - I've had electrician look at the panel and they have no interest in helping. o well - if I wait long enough I'll just use battery LED all over the house

Rocket Dingdong

@Smarter Circuits Haaa Your a funny dude

Smarter Circuits

"You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of low-voltage lighting..."
But seriously, what a great compliment, thank you! Though, I have cut my hair and shaved my beard, I hope I can still capture that Bob Villa vibe.
These systems can be a lot of confusion and headache, but I don't think they have to be if more people (particularly electricians) understood the history and what we were thinking when we installed them. With all the new gadgets available, folks with these systems should be able to have an even better opportunity for reliability and function. I hope you find someone to give your house that little bit of TLC you and it deserve.

Rick Butera

2y↑1

My brain hurts from trying to retain all the information given in this video. Nice work! I look forward to the rest of them!

Smarter Circuits

Awesome, thank you! Working on the next videos, should be back on track within the next couple of weeks.

Dillon Tracy

2y↑1

Bought my first house 3 years ago which is outfitted with (based on the switches) a Remcon system. I know absolutely nothing about it, nor was I given any information verbal or otherwise upon purchase. The house also runs off-peak power, whatever that means. The original builder/owner up until my coming owned an electrical contracting company and was very fond of his work. The electrical in the house seems somewhat of a flex, showing his ability. Unfortunately he had passed and his heir was of no help explaining anything. I had to replace a few transformers in the ceiling upon moving in, being the furthest I've dove into it. There are many features including some switches I still have no clue what they do. I have two 9-switch panels, one in the master bedroom and another in the garage. I know what a few do and accidentally touched the larger main one once at night. Turning on I believe every single light in the house associated with a loud beep. Which quite honestly concussed and scared the hell out of me and I never touched it again. As little as I understand this system, moving away seems like a better idea. Though I found this video in search of seemingly scarce information about the system. In hopes of understanding what is possible with it or how to ditch it the easy way. Every electrician I talk to knows better than to touch the system at all or knows absolutely nothing and again refuses to touch the system. Both hilarious and sad.

Smarter Circuits

@Josh Tinley I have not... terribly behind on that front, but feel free to email me at SmarterCircuits at gmail.

Josh Tinley

@Smarter Circuits
Did you ever create that contact page? Would love to ask a few questions about updating my old GE momentary relay system.

Smarter Circuits

Oh boy. It sounds like you've got quite a challenge animal on your hands. It can be a gift to some and a curse to others. I do hope you have some fortune in finding an electrician in your area that can assist. It sounds like you may have a larger system that requires numerous transformers due to the distance or quantity of relays. It is possible that the "beep" you are hearing is actually a relay or other coil shorting on actuation. I've not seen a master switch that activates all of the lights at once due to the sudden drain on the system that could damage components; Although, there were a lot of bad decisions made in the history of these. I may do a video on some troubleshooting that may help you, but it could be a few weeks before it is released--I'm working against a back log and work has been a little hectic. Hopefully, I can get a contact page set up for situations like this that I can create targeted videos that could come in handy for more people. Thanks for watching!

S Anderson

2y↑1

Never heard of Touch-Plate until today and have not found the other four videos. Thank you for your efforts. I will be watching.

Kenny Ray Finlayson

My wife and I are renting a home with low voltage lighting. Earlier today we had a series of the switches stop working. 1 Some of the lots are stuck in the on position while some are stuck turned off Some of the lots are stuck in the on position while some are stuck turned off. It's as if the voltage supplying signal to all of these switches has completely stopped. Any suggestions?

Kenny Ray Finlayson

@Smarter Circuits yes I believe it is the transformer. I found one in the basement, it's a GE Rt1 40v. I tried replacing it with a 24v one with no avail. The original had three lines hooked up to it (three low voltage 2 wires, red and white). When I check for polarity on the lines, 2 don't ring, but one does. Would that be an indication that 2 are good and one is bad or vice versa? Thanks for any information you can give me as info on this stuff os super limited as you onow

Smarter Circuits

1y↑1

It sounds like the coils could be failing to pull/push the snap device into the on or off position on these relays, which would simply require replacing them with similar or newer relays. Given that you had multiple fail simultaneously, I would check circuit breakers first (which I'm sure you've done), then test your transformers. If you're not sure how to test the transformer, it might be a good idea to get some help from an electrician as these can be dangerous to service without knowing how they can be dangerous and under what conditions they are safe to probe. My apologies for the late reply, I've been juggling quite a few things recently. If you haven't already found the issue in the few days since you posted, I would definitely push the property owner to look into this since it could create potentially hazardous conditions, or at least get very expensive if not addressed quickly. Sorry I couldn't be of more assistance than this, but without being there or seeing the system, it's difficult to give any advice and I would hate to send you down the wrong path.

MaryAnn McArdle

1y↑1

I was happy to find your video however readily admitting I did not understand most of it. The problem I have is that in updating my kitchen the installers of the my new countertop hit one of the off and on switches. I can still turn the light off and on but the button is a bit amiss and I would like to change to white ones. I connected Kyle prior to seeing your video but customer service was anything BUT helpful. I could never talked to a live person as all information need to be done via email. That sent me several links, but can't tell what type it is since it not labeled and I don't know what I actually need. If I look at the pictures on the website I guess they are Bryant. Can you tell me what from the Kyle website what I need to replace the off and on buttons? I sent one electrician the link to Kyle (as he did not know about this system) along with pictures. He told me the parts to fix would be $100 and the labor requiring 2 guys would be $290 an hour. Thank you so much.

Smarter Circuits

One more thing to note for anyone moding their switches (Give this info to whoever works on your system if you don't); there is always one contact for on and one for off necessary per lighting circuit in addition to a single or double hot wire coming from the transformer. This means you can use any single-pole double-throw momentary switch if you can mount and adapt it, just make sure it is rated for 24 VDC. You can also create the same with two single-pole single throws, one for on and one for off, you just need to branch the hot wire. In systems that use four wires because the switch is a double-pole double-throw, chances are high that the hot for both is coming from the same place, if you have more than one transformer, double-check that disconnecting one of them disables both hot wires--if you have one transformer, there's no where else the hot could be coming from, so they are the same wire essentially (but twice the resistance together, not really important here). If they do both run to the same transformer, you can treat them as the same hot if you want to use a single-pole double-throw by combining them before or at the connection or simply omitting one of them (be sure to cap and insulate that wire if it remains live).

Smarter Circuits

I feel like I'm saying this a lot lately, but I am so sorry for not seeing this comment sooner--I've been distracted and only checking the comments on the channel every few days. The nice thing about these systems is that there's very little difference in the switches that control them. As long as they are not lighted, you can mostly interchange them as long as you use a momentary switch (one that does not toggle into a position and stay). Choosing based on what you like and what looks closest to what you have is pretty safe. Your electrician should be able to make any terminal adapting needed if the blade connectors on the back are a slightly different size, but if you know someone who is handy with even the smallest electronics project, they would be able to figure it out quickly as well. On the topic of pricing, it sounds like he may have quoted a new relay in addition to the switch, I would check this. If the light still operates, but the switch is only slightly damaged, I would say the relay is probably fine and this shouldn't really cost any more than $50 at most--not including labor, which is really a convenience fee for the little amount of work actually needed. I hope this helps.

Shell D

3y↑3

I want Jane Jetson’s morning routine machine ... how far out do you suppose that is? 😄

Smarter Circuits

There's a Gadget Man episode that sort of covers that. Season 2 Episode 2 - Rise and Shine.

Jacob Mazurek

2y↑1

Your link to Kyle switch plate solved my current problem.

Smarter Circuits

They have a lot of good archived info on these systems--more than I found anywhere else, really--and plenty of replacement parts. Glad you solved your issue!

Johnny Wastlund

3y↑1

I'm looking to upgrade my 50's GE low voltage switching system also. Will the 3 wire switches need to be replaced with the 2 wire for the Shelly 1 to replace the relay? I don't see a way around it. Thank you for the video.

Smarter Circuits

Ok, finally got around to uploading a couple quick drawings of what I mean, I hope these are legible and make sense:
Original Wiring:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CRZolom311N4xwiSH8sDtNJmbEdvSo4a/view?usp=sharing
Possible Rewire with existing SPDT momentary switch:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CLA04PswW5IE_KbTtOfmEhNeeJTrqcgM/view?usp=sharing
Thanks for viewing and may you have the best of luck with your conversion!

Smarter Circuits

A point of clarification: When I say "use both hots" I mean using both the "on" and "off" hot wires on the hot side of the switch terminals on the relay and the neutral as a neutral or ground (if you're using DC to power a latching relay). So, both directions on the two-way (double throw) momentary switch would act as a single momentary press and toggle the light on or off regardless of direction. If this is weird to you, you can instead just install a single momentary button and use the wires of your choosing (so long as you're absolutely sure where they go to the relay terminals). Another thing to mention here is that the Shelly relays can be AC for both control and load or DC for both control and load, but you cannot--so far as I know--use a hybrid of DC to control an AC circuit. There are other products that allow this, and if this is of interest to you, I recommend checking out Allied Electronics Contactors. Another strange but effective method would be to use DC through the wall switched to power a secondary non-latching solid state relay that would control the AC control side of the Shelly relay. This seems redundant--and it is--but it's not uncommon in the industrial/commercial world to use this technique for overcurrent protection on the control side of a heavy contactor.

Smarter Circuits

Generally, you have five wires total coming from the relay (I apologize if any of this you already know, I'm just covering all bases). The thicker wires coming from the squarish part of the relay should connect to a line from the mains box and the other will continue on to your fixtures. On the cylindrical part, you'll have three wires; a neutral and two hots--one for opening the circuit and one for closing the circuit. The switch at the wall will have the same corresponding wires. You can still install a Shelly--or other relay--in line here and use either or both of the hots in order to toggle the relay with the appropriate configuration, or use the existing wires and replace the double-throw momentary in the wall with a single pole momentary to be a little more "honest" about its function. If you're unsure of any of these things, I would highly recommend having an electrician give you a hand. You can explain what you'd like to do, and they should be able to help you do it the safest way--although, this is almost certainly not the cheapest route, sometimes it's better to spend the money to have the peace of mind of safety. I hope I've been clear enough to help you logic out the wiring or determine an approach that suits your needs. I'll try to put together a little more diagrammed information later tonight and I'll post it in this thread. I love that more owners of these systems are appearing and I'd love to help because almost everyone in my neighborhood has had some kind of trouble with these systems--not because they're bad systems, just older and we know more now than we did then. No reason we can't resurrect the idea or even build better systems from the groundwork already in place.