The Fall of Man
R.C. Sproul Lyrics

We have lyrics for 'The Fall of Man' by these artists:

Bleed from Within You will need more than prayers to cleanse humanity of…
Ceremonial Castings On Our Darkest Hour, We Shall Fall ... From Greed As Our…
CMX The man needs to be soul Give him hope Give him peace Don…
Crimson Moon The Venom of God we are The spite of Man we…
Dew-Scented We cannot see through, senses have failed Between brief mom…
Gravecloud You've taken the fire Oh betrayer of gods You've chosen the …
Matthew Good Band You pray for the sheep I get closer to hell I stand…
runaway symphony One day I will meet my enemy And catch up with…
The Middle East the trees are burnt the grass is brown the sky turns red …

Torture Squad A new empire will rise Bringing affliction inside Who know…

We have lyrics for these tracks by R.C. Sproul:

Come Thou Long-Expected Jesus Ephesians 2:4-5a, 8 But God, Being rich in mercy, Because of…
Introduction Three years is a long time when you're this young Throwing…
Justice 中王区中心勢力 mighty (mighty) We are 言の葉党(パーティー) (葉党) 逆うやつ no mer…
Justice Mercy and Grace Hustle now many years I know Do Gee many years I…
The Other Side of the Coin So much realer than the real thing Or maybe it's a…
The Wise Men I never liked Imus Always thought he was a dickhead The medi…
This Is My Father's World Under a sky of gold and blue Skeins of purple and…

What is Predestination? What is love? Love is staying patient through the hardships …

The lyrics are frequently found in the comments by searching or by filtering for lyric videos

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Most interesting comments from YouTube:

Aaron Pilkey

4y↑1

terminat1 WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?

Notice this does NOT say “What must I do to save myself.”

That’s what reformers keep stumbling over in that they think it’s somehow saving themselves.

ACTS 16:29-31

29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?
31 And they said, BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The BIBLICAL answer to this question as clearly stated in this verse is simply BELIEVE.

The Reformer’s answer to this question is, “well actually sorry bro there’s actually nothing you can do you gotta be elected to believe first then God has to effectually call you and then He gives you the faith to believe.”

If it was unconditional the answer would’ve been, “NOTHING.
YOU’VE EITHER BEEN ELECTED OR YOU HAVEN’T.”

But what was the answer?

There was a CONDITION.

What was the condition?

THEY HAD TO BELIEVE.

The condition was FAITH in Jesus Christ.

To re-iterate again, freely believing in Christ to perform a Spiritual operation is NOT the same as the operation itself so why do reformers conflate the two?

A common misconception is that reformers believe that faith is somehow part of that operation where in reality it’s not connected at all.

It happens BEFORE the operation not during.

Faith is NOT part of the operation.

Just like driving yourself to the hospital isn’t part of a physical operation or surgery.

The surgeon doesn’t drive to your house and pick you up and then take you to the hospital to have your surgery as part of the operation itself.

A pilot doesn’t drive to your house and pick you up and then take you to the airport to catch your flight as part of the actual flight itself.

In no way does driving yourself to the hospital or to the airport take any credit away from the surgeon or from the pilot.

You can’t now boast and claim that you helped perform your own surgery because you drive yourself to the hospital.

You can’t now boast and claim that you helped fly the airplane because you drive yourself to the airport.

See how foolish that kind of reasoning sounds!

In the exact same way that the pilot and the surgeon would both laugh at you and think you’ve gone mentally crazy and belong in a psych ward if you were to claim that you participated in your own surgery and flight by simply driving yourself to the hospital/airport, so to God looks down at the same foolish argument on anyone to claim they saved themselves by freely believing and that that is somehow a reason to boast.

Aaron Pilkey

4y↑1

terminat1
It’s also a laughable and ridiculously foolish argument that reformers use in order to appeal to emotions to say that freely believing is a reason to boast or that we save ourselves.

Even passages like “save yourselves from this untoward generation” we don’t twist out of context to mean something it doesn’t because we are all well aware that God does the saving.

No one is arguing that salvation is of God alone and that we are born again by the will of God.

100% God. 0% man.

That does not negate the fact that mankind has to freely come to Christ and believe in Him to be saved.

I marvel that reformers can’t grasp or understand that faith is not part of the spiritual operation of God, but that it happens BEFOREHAND and is the requirement to be saved and get the operation done which is THEN performed SOLELY by our Surgeon the Lord Jesus Christ who spiritually circumcises our hearts and regenerates us with NO ASSISTANCE from us whatsoever.

That’s how God’s designed it and it pleases Him to have Sovereignly chosen and decreed to save only those who BELIEVE.

1 CORINTHIANS 1:21

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.

Q: According to 1 Corinthians 1:21 does it please God to save those that believe or does it please Him to save people so that then they can then believe after they’re born again?

God has sovereignly decreed to choose for salvation, only those who would repent and put their faith in Christ.

God chose to save all who FREELY BELIEVE and it’s a SUCCESS 100% of the time when people FREELY ACCEPT His free gift of grace and salvation that’s been offered to all.

It’s also a success 100% of the time when people FREELY choose to REJECT God’s free gift of salvation made available to all through FAITH in His Son.

Either way God is equally glorified and man is not.

Aaron Pilkey

5y↑3

Cory Lewis

**You also need to be exposed on your small view of God’s Sovereignty.

Do you honestly believe that God can only be Sovereign if He meticulously controls everything.

Do you put God in a box and try and tell Him that He can’t still be Sovereign if man has free will?

Do you honestly think God is not powerful enough to still be Sovereign despite the infinite number of fickle choices man can make?

Such a low low view of God’s omnipotence.

Do you even know what the word Sovereign means?

You can’t just hi-Jack the definition of sovereignty and give it our own definition to fit your beliefs.

**Sovereignty does NOT mean determinism, it means GOD IS IN CONTROL and His ability to do whatever He wants.

Sovereignty is translated from “LORD, LORD” and is not even found once in the KJV!
(It’s only found in the ESV 3 times).

Reformers wrongly define the concept of divine sovereignty as meaning “meticulous deterministic control over ever thing, including the evil intentions of creatures.”

The scriptures simply never teach this concept.

Instead, divine sovereignty is reflected as God’s ability to do whatever He is pleased to do (Ps. 115:3)
even if that may include giving the world over to creature’s free dominion (Ps. 115:16).

Here’s the definition of sovereignty would you like to submit a new definition to Miriam Webster?

You can make up your own definition of sovereignty all day long but scripture won’t bend to it and the dictionary is not going to re-write itself on your behalf either.

**********************************

MIRRIAM WEBSTER- SOVEREIGN

SOVEREIGN - noun
sov·er·eign | \ ˈsä-v(ə-)rən

1a: one possessing or held to possess supreme political power or sovereignty
b: one that exercises supreme authority within a limited sphere
c: an acknowledged leader : ARBITER
2: any of various gold coins of the United Kingdom

SOVEREIGN - adjective

1a: superlative in quality
b: of the most exalted kind : SUPREME sovereign virtue
c: having generalized curative powers
a sovereign remedy
d: of an unqualified nature : UNMITIGATED sovereign contempt
e: having undisputed ascendancy : PARAMOUNT
2a: possessed of supreme power a sovereign ruler
b: unlimited in extent : ABSOLUTE
c: enjoying autonomy : INDEPENDENT sovereign states
3: relating to, characteristic of, or befitting a supreme ruler : ROYAL
a sovereign right

God’s Word and the BIBLICAL DEFINITION of sovereignty will not bend to your lower view of His sovereignty.

God will not be put in a man made box.

Sovereignty= Supreme Power and Authority

God is definitely sovereign by the BIBLICAL AND TRUE DEFINITION OF SOVEREIGNTY and not by man’s definition imposed upon it in order for it to suit a certain systematic.

God is in complete 100% control of everything.

That doesn’t mean He’s meticulously controlling everything.

Would you like to email the team at Miriam Webster and submit your own new definition of sovereignty and see if they can replace the pins definition?

Aaron Pilkey

5y↑3

Cory Lewis Negative we point to God the Creator as the final authority.
So when He tells us how we’re saved we believe Him because His Word is our authority and not a man made doctrine.

YOU are the one who believes in a man-centered theology because you can’t accept who God in His Sovereignty has decided to save.

You reject it and try and tell God who He should save instead of just believing Him.

Salvation is 100% of God and 0% man.

Foolish parroted and regurgitated comment about man saving himself.

God does the saving. Period.

Crying out to God for mercy is NOT saving yourself.

In your foolishness and ignorance you conflate the two to your own demise.

I’ll keep focusing on God and what He SAYS and you keep focusing on your man made assumptions.

If God’s Word told me I had to climb a tree to be saved I would believe it.

Because scripture is my authority and not a man made systematic.

So when God’s Word tells me I have to look the the one lifted up I believe it.

When scripture says I must BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ I believe it because scripture is my authority and my beliefs are centred on what God says and not what man’s systematic says.

That’s called GOD-CENTRED when you accept and believe what His Word says.

MAN-CENTRED is rejecting what His Word says and then interpreting passages to suit your doctrine rather than listening to Jesus Christ Himself explain Himself and rather than listen to John under inspiration of Holy Spirit summarize in the book of John.

GOD-CENTRED is believing it pleases God to save all those who believe.

MAN-CENTRED theology is trying to tell God no He can only save those whom He causes to believe.

GOD-CENTRED theology is believing 1 Corinthians 1:21.

How about we let God tell us who He’s chosen to be saved instead of telling Him who we think He’s chosen by saying He’s just chosen random people to be saved before the foundation of the world for no apparent reason.

What do the scriptures say?

WHO has God chosen to save?

According to the scriptures it’s NOT a group of random people but it’s a very specific group of people.

God in His Sovereignty has chosen to save all those who FREELY believe in His Son Jesus Christ.

NO ONE comes to the Father except THROUGH Christ.

NOT “before” Christ so that you can then come to Christ.

*You can’t enter into the new covenant without the Mediator of that very covenant!*

That would usurp Christ.

You can’t get the surgery done without the surgeon.

You can’t be born again without the very one who regenerates you.

...This is WHO God chooses to be saved:

1 CORINTHIANS 1:21

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE.

Q: According to 1 Corinthians 1:21 does it please God to save those that believe or does it please Him to save people so that then they can then believe after they’re born again?

*God has sovereignly decreed to choose for salvation, only those who would repent and put their faith in Christ.*

Do you reject this passage of scripture?

This is what pleases God and yet you want to try and tell God what pleases Him after He’s already told us?!

It pleases God to save those who BELIEVE.

Todd Cote

3y↑4

It does mean draw or drag and it is for all men, however the context in view is not dragging to salvation, but dragging all men to the judgement seat of Christ, symbolized in the cross.
Notice the verse right before...
Jhn 12:31 - “Now is the >>judgment<< of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
Jhn 12:32 - “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

The mistake then is that "draw" in and of itself does not automatically mean salvation. It just means drag.

Therefore, since Jesus says that He being raised on the cross is the judgment of the world, the cross is the standard by which all will be judged, for every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is the Christ. This is not a confession unto eternal life, it's a confession of the truth of who Christ is. Jesus elsewhere said "All judgment has been committed to Me". Most seem to forget how much the gospel of John speaks of Jesus as the Judge of the world and that His cross also displays the judgment of the world. Peter brings this to light in Acts 2. "You killed Jesus!" Peter highlights how they are now under judgement because they judged Jesus wrongly. Their murderous hatred hung on the cross and spoke against them. They couldn't deny it. They shouted crucify Him! His blood was upon them in judgment.

We have to look back at Numbers 21 for the snake on the pole story to verify this since Jesus is refering to it a second time.

What was raised on the pole?
The snake.

What was the snake?
God's judgment of their sin.

Who were saved by the snake?
Only those who were bitten and looked.

Was everyone bitten?
No.

Did people die before the snake was raised?
Yes.

Did God remove the judgement [the snakes] when Moses asked for the people?
No. Instead, God had Moses set His judgment of their sin high upon a hill where if any that were bitten wanted life, they had to look upon the object of His judgment upon their sin. Sound familiar to Jesus?

Looking at the snake only brought life to those who were bitten. Everyone else simply saw a snake on a pole.

Just like today. Hearing the gospel and seeing Jesus on a cross is a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Gentiles. They see only with their natural eyes and turn away. But when the Holy Spirit comes and convicts a person of their sin [He bites them so to speak] their eyes are opened to clearly see Jesus on the cross as their judgment.

After Peter exposes the Jews murder of the Christ, the Holy Spirit bit them. They cried out just as before in Numbers 21. We've sinned, what must we do to be saved!?

And just as before, they had to look at their judgment for life. They had to look upon their sin, hanging on the cross.

Mike Duke

Man has no choice or better stated, man does not have the ability to look to God for salvation unless God draws man to Christ, who is God.
God is perfect and in the beginning man fell from grace when he, man, sinned and disobeyed God in the garden of Eden. Man (who is imperfect) was cursed (by a perfect God) with physical and spiritual death.
Now that seed of sin, the curse of physical and spiritual death, is passed on to all of man's offspring, hence all men die physically and spiritually, unless...a necessaty condition is met to save man from that end.
Now, if God did not, by His mercy and grace, make a means for man to be saved from the enevitable consequence of the inherent sin he possesses from birth, God would be just to send all men to hell, (condemnation) and would be just in doing so since God can do no wrong.

[ Romans 1:20 ..invisible attributes...This specifically refers to the two mantioned in this verse. "by the things that are made" The creation delivers a clear, unmistakable message about God's person. (Pss 19:1-8; 94:9, Acts 14:15-17; Acts 17:23-28) ] notes on Romans 1:20 taken from John MacArthur study bible.

God has no obligation to do anything for mankind...but has pulled out or sovereignly chosen an (elect group of people) to redeem. Hard to understand completely because we are not an infinite creator who is perfect, remember, you have absolutely no ability to stop yourself from dying physically and even less ability to stop spiritual death. We are at the mercy of a perfect God, who, would be just if He sent us all to perdition, condemnation...because we deserve it.
Yet.....God did do a merciful act by providing a way to escape the spiritual death...and that was by taking on, having your sin attributed to His (Jesus's account), having your entire sinful life imputed to Christ, while having Christ's righteousness, imputed to your account so that, when an almighty and perfect God looks at you, He sees the righteousness of His perfect son Jesus, who died on your behalf. And it is a merciful act you could never pay for if your life10 trillion years performing good deeds of righteosness. For our righteousness is but filthy rags before God.

Rich Rioux

John 6:50-51 K.J.V
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man MAY eat thereof, and not die.
I am the LIVING BREAD which came down from heaven: if ANY MAN eat of this BREAD, he shall LIVE for EVER: and the BREAD that I will GIVE is my flesh, which I will GIVE for the LIFE of the WORLD.
John 6:50-51

KJV Dictionary Definition: manman

MAN, n. plu. men. Heb.species, kind, image, similitude.

1. Mankind; the human race; the whole species of human beings; beings distinguished from all other animals by the powers of reason and speech, as well as by their shape and dignified aspect. "Os homini sublime dedit."

And God said, Let us make man in our image, , after our likeness, and let them have dominion--Gen.1.

Man that is born of a woman, is of few days and full of trouble. Job.14.

My spirit shall not always strive with man. Gen.6.

I will destroy man whom I have created. Gen.6.

There hath no temptation taken you, but such as is common to man. 1 Cor.10.

It is written,man shall not live by bread alone. Matt.4.

There must be somewhere such a rank as man.

Respecting man, whatever wrong we call--

But vindicate the ways of God to man.

The proper study of mankind is man.

In the System of Nature, man is ranked as a distinct genus.

When opposed to woman, man sometimes denotes the male sex in general.

Woman has, in general, much stronger propensity than man to the discharge of parental duties.

In (John 6:50-51 K.J.V) The word "may" is 3. To have moral power; to have liberty, leave, license or PERMISSION; to be permitted; to be allowed. A man may do what the laws permit. He may do what is not against decency, propriety or good manners. We may not violate the laws, or the rules of good breeding. I told the servant he might be absent.

KJV Dictionary Definition: may

MAY, n. L. Maius.

1. The fifth month of the year, beginning with January, but the third, beginning with March, as was the ancient practice of the Romans.

2. A young woman.

3. The early part of life.

His May of youth and bloom of lustihood.

MAY, v.i. To gather flowers in May-morning.

MAY, verb aux; pret.might.

1. To be possible. We say, a thing may be, or may not be; an event may happen; a thing may be done, if means are not wanting.

2. To have physical power; to be able.

Make the most of life you may.

3. To have moral power; to have liberty, leave, license or permission; to be permitted; to be allowed. A man may do what the laws permit. He may do what is not against decency, propriety or good manners. We may not violate the laws, or the rules of good breeding. I told the servant he might be absent.

Thou mayest be no longer steward. Luke 16.

4. It is used in prayer and petitions to express desire. O may we never experience the evils we dread. So also in expressions of good will. May you live happily, and be a blessing to your country. It was formerly used for can, and its radical sense is the same.

May be, it may be, are expressions equivalent to perhaps, by chance, peradventure, that is, it is possible to be.

maying

MA'YING, n. The gathering of flowers on May-day.

Rich Rioux

John 15:13-14 K.J.V
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Ye are my friends, IF ye DO whatsoever I COMMAND you.
John 15:13-14

Matthew 4:17 K.J.V
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, REPENT: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 4:17

Matthew 9:12-13 K.J.V
But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
But GO ye and LEARN what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but SINNERS to REPENTANCE.
Matthew 9:12-13

Romans 9:18 K.J.V
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Romans 9:18

I wonder IF calvinists have ever applied (Proverbs 28:13 K.J.V) to (Romans 9:18 K.J.V).

Proverbs 28:13 K.J.V
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but WHOSO CONFESSETH and FORSAKETH them shall have MERCY.
Proverbs 28:13

Rich Rioux

John 6:40 K.J.V
And this is the WILL of him that sent me, that EVERY ONE which seeth the Son, and BELIEVETH on him, MAY have EVERLASTING LIFE: and I will RAISE him up at the LAST DAY.
John 6:40

John 6:50-51 K.J.V
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man MAY eat thereof, and not die.
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if ANY MAN eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will GIVE is my flesh, which I will GIVE for the LIFE of the WORLD.
John 6:50-51

John 17:21 K.J.V That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the WORLD MAY BELIEVE that thou hast sent me.
John 17:21

Acts 8:19 K.J.V Saying, Give me also this power, that on WHOMSOEVER I lay hands, he MAY RECEIVE the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8:19

Rich Rioux

Scott Davidson the point is limmited atonement is false teaching .

What is limited atonement.

L = LIMITED ATONEMENT (Calvinism teaches that Christ died only for the elect, but the Bible teaches that He died for all mankind. The reason not all are saved is because they failed to repent and receive the Saviour, not because He didn't provide for their salvation.):

There's another verse among the meany verses that disapproves limited atonement.

Hebrews 2:9 K.J.V
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN.
Hebrews 2:9

Lets look at Atheistism.

April 1st is atheists holiday.

https://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/atheist.asp

Atheist deny God because they want to LIVE their life in sin and don't have to turn from their sins daily as well as don't want to be accountable to God.

Calvinism is the perfect thing for someone who is a atheist.

Why beause they can believe in God and still live in their sin and dont have to be accountable to God.

In one of the 5 points of calvinism you have P = PERSEVERANCE.

P = PERSEVERANCE (The Bible teaches preservation of the saints; not perseverance of the saints):
PERSEVERANCE in calvinism is even if someone does not live there life for God; 100% reject God and Jesus and the Holy Ghost (1 John 5:7). Calvinism believe that if God wants them to be saved they are saved in other words once saved always saved.
" Once saved always saved"

Lets see what Gods word says.

Mark 2:17 K.J.V When JESUS heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the PHYSICIAN, but they that are SICK: I came NOT to call the righteous, but SINNERS to REPENTANCE.
Mark 2:17

So in the false doctrine of Calvinism it teaches that a person does NOT have to admit that they are sick and need a physician, don't need to repent and trun from their sins beauce they are believe that they are elected before being "BORN AGAIN", as well as the teachingof calvinism teaches that a person does not need to pick up their cross daily.

John 3:3 K.J.V Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:3

Luke 9:23-24 K.J.V
And he said to them all, IF ANY MAN will come AFTER me, LET him DENY HIMSELF, and TAKE UP his CROSS DAILY, and FOLLOW me.
For WHOSOEVER will SAVE his life shall LOSE it: but WHOSOEVER will LOSE his life for MY sake, the same shall SAVE it.
Luke 9:23-24

So conclusion Calvinism is the teaching that someone does not need to LOSE their life of sin to be saved.

Aaron Pilkey

4y↑1

Todd Cote The only way John 3:3 would support the reformed belief is if the text somehow said, “you can’t have faith unless you are born again”...
but that’s NOT what the passage says at all and yet reformers continue to use it as some kind of “proof text.”

And that’s exactly what I’ve just exposed.

I pray one day you’ll stop wrestling with a man made doctrine and learn to rest and accept what’s written in the inspired Word of God.

You claim it’s “splitting hairs” over the order salutis.

Theres a clear and distinct order and that is faith precedes regeneration.

There’s no splitting hairs but what you are splitting is the Word of God.

It’s scripturally impossible to be born again before you’re justified.

Period.

There’s absolutely no dancing around that or explaining that away.

It’s scripturally impossible to have eternal life and to be at peace with God before you’re justified.

It doesn’t matter the Hebrew or the Greek or the English or the Chinese this fact will remain true.

It doesn’t matter the Bible translation if it’s KJV, ESV, NASB, NIV, NLT or the Message this fact remains true.

The moment you’re regenerated you have eternal life.

There’s no waiting period.

1) We are justified by FAITH:

ROMANS 5:1,2

1 Therefore being justified BY FAITH, WE HAVE PEACE WITH GOD THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST:
2 By whom also WE HAVE ACCESS BY FAITH INTO THIS GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

GALATIANS 3:22

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise BY FAITH of Jesus Christ MIGHT BE GIVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE.

...According to John 3:18 can we be born again before we’re justified by faith?

How can you be born again if you’re
still condemned until you believe?

It’s impossible.

JOHN 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

...According to John 3:36 how can you be born again before believing because you’d still have the wrath of God on you?

JOHN 3:36

36 He THAT BELIEVETH ON THE SON HATH EVERLASTING LIFE: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.

There’s definitely some more wrestling you need to do and it’s with your pride and arrogance that thinks you have sone sort of relationship with God prior you Christ.

NO ONE comes to the Father except THROUGH Christ.

NOT before Christ.

No one is regenerated apart from Christ because He is the very central figure in regeneration.

It’s scripturally impossible to enter into the New Covenant without the very Mediator of that covenant.

Reformed theology usurps and removes Christ and by-passes and goes around Him in order to be born again.

That’s not splitting hairs that’s splitting the Word of God.

Aaron Pilkey

4y↑1

Todd Cote I’ll address some of the points you said you had wreathes with in your first reply...

YOU SAID: “Did you choose to be born or did birth happen to you of your mom and dad?”

REPLY: You’re assuming that because SOME things such as our physical birth were outside of our control that that now must also automatically mean everything is predetermined even our ability to believe.

That’s an ASSUMPTION and when stacked up against the Word of God we see that it falls short.

You say you’ve “wrestled” with these questions but if you would just rest in what God’s word says there would be no wrestling at all.

Ironically we see in Acts 17:24-34 God determined specific things for the VERY PURPOSE of us seeking and finding Him:

ACTS 17:24-34

24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing HE GIVETH TO ALL LIFE, AND BREATH, AND ALL THINGS;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and HATH DETERMINED THE TIMES BEFORE APPOINTED, AND THE BOUNDS OF THEIR HABITATION;
27 THAT THEY SHOULD SEEK THE LORD, IF HAPLY THEY MIGHT FEEL AFTER HIM, AND FIND HIM, THOUGH HE BE NOT FAR FROM EVERY ONE OF US:

God clearly says that He’s specifically determined the TIMES before appointed and the BOUNDS of our habitation.

God makes no mention of determining every little detail.

We have absolutely no control over WHEN or WHERE we are born or to what parents or to what race.

All of our physical characteristics were predetermined but our FREE CHOICES WERE NOT.

One would have to read that onto the text and ASSUME.

So your statement about choosing to be born has absolutely nothing to do with ones ability to believe.

***************************************

YOU SAID: “Do dead men vote? No, of course not.”

REPLY: Do dead men sin? No, of course not.

We know that dead in scriptures refers to SPIRITUAL deadness and not any dory of physical inability to believe.

If we take your analogy of dead men not being able to vote then you must also conclude that dead men can’t sin either at which point your analogy falls to the ground.

Mankind has total moral depravity, completely separated from God Spiritually and is totally lost and helpless to save himself and would remain in his fallen state IF left on his own unless God took the first step and initiated the opportunity to be saved.

The scriptures teach total depravity and NOT total inability.

There’s not one verse you can show me that teaches total inability.

Total depravity yes.

Total inability NO.

Dead does not relate to your “ability” but to your RELATIONSHIP.

Dead is NEVER SHOWN in the scriptures to mean MORAL INABILITY to respond to God’s truth.

Dead means SPIRITUALLY SEPARATED from the presence of God due to sin and the only way to get into His presence is through Christ.

If we were actually dead as reformers portray then we wouldn’t even be able to sin.

Scripture supports a totally depraved man that is spiritually separated from God and obviously unable to save Himself.

This does NOT mean man is totally incapable of responding to Him.

Aaron Pilkey

4y↑1

Todd Cote I took your advice and re-read my question as you said I had skipped over what you said "yes" to.

What I assumed you said yes to was the question that I asked and not anything else as would any other normal human being.

So perhaps you should re-read my question more diligently and reflect on what your direct response of “yes” would mean to anyone reading it if it was actually in direct response to the question I asked.

So here’s the question I asked without the preceding sentence: “does that mean you must be born again in order to see first so you can then have faith to believe?”

That was the question.

So I would assume you were answering that question when you said “yes” because I never asked any other questions.

You then went on to state some questions you said you had wrestled with.

YOU SAID: “I was answering your question the way you presented it.”

REPLY: The way I presented it was exactly the way it was presented and again this is the way it was presented word for word: “does that mean you must be born again in order to see first so you can then have faith to believe?”

YOU SAID: “My yes was that one must be born again prior to seeing or believing.”

REPLY: So you’re assuming I’m a mind reader because that’s not the question I asked at all.
Re-read my question that I’ve now re-posted multiple times now for you.
Pay particular attention to the last half of the question which you seem to have not read or understood.
Here it is: “ in order to see first so you can then have faith to believe?”

Your response was “yes” and so if you are not responding to my question you shouldn’t expect people to read your mind.

All comments from YouTube:

Rose Love

4y↑29

R.C. Sproul was one of the best Bible teachers that ever lived! Ligonier has the best Bible teachers on the planet! A well of living water to drink from! 💝🦅💙

Tommaso Lombardi

4y↑32

I never listened to a teaching from RC Sproul that wasn’t loaded with truth. Always leaves me fullfilled

The Gospel Associates

4y↑44

Those criticising didn't listen with an open mind! Such a great teaching R.C

Keith Thomas

@Anon Ralph is

ilkin engin

@Anon Ralph says God

Jacob Whitus

3y↑2

@Mike Duke pump your breaks.

Mike Duke

3y↑2

@Anon Ralph Those who criticize the monergistic work of the Holy Spirit do not have the Spirit of God and are unregenerated.

Anon Ralph

3y↑1

Says who

Daniel McKibben

8y↑19

Our focus is to be on what our LORD God has done, is doing, and will do. To rely on His Faithfulness, not our own...May the Lord bless His children with Wisdom and Discernment. May He drag us closer to Christ.

Emily Ostertag

5y↑19

Rc changed my entire world. It seems everything around me glows with brighter hues. Like Zach William's song, "Everything changed." Highly recommend that btw

Full Dexterity

4y↑4

Give all Glory to God. RC teaches Gods word which in itself is life changing!

David W

6y↑15

I thank God with all my heart for R.C.'s excellent teaching. I love to meditate on God choosing a helpless wretch like me for eternal joy in His presence.

jan piet

9y↑47

Here water water water. That made my day.
Thank you ligonier ministries for sound and in depth theology.

Mike Duke

3y↑1

@chjaka Because you have not yet been regenerated and are still in the flesh.

Mad Cow

3y↑1

chjaka I’ve worked on a sheep farm. The farmer when he calls his sheep says “here here here” and they come. So he’s making it the opposite of what it plainly says yet you delight in your conceit thinking yourself better than Christ who plainly says “hear my voice” not “drag you with a rope” I don’t need to turn to any other verse to explain what draw means in this context because it tells me right there in that verse what it means! You say turn to the meaning turn to the meaning then turn away from the meaning provided to you by Jesus. You have taken the meaning he himself provides and provided another. Might be okay with some other passages but definitely NOT in this one. Plainly says the sheep are the ones that here and come o. THEIR OWN VOILITION. Having heard. Granted they must be those given by the father but that is the preface, not the conclusion. The conclusion is those who are given come on their own violation for they ha e heard . It’s horse then cart not cart then horse

Jonathan Fontenot

5y↑3

@chjaka Here again is a fruitless attack with nothing to back it up. Engage with the exegetical nature of the text instead of bashing your brothers. This kind of behavior is reprehensible among Christians.

KK TL

Sheep Dog you need to use simple logic

KK TL

jan piet sound? Can you read and think?

1 More Replies...

Dean Camp

6y↑18

Peter describes the saved in Acts 2:39 as "everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself". Believers are those whom the Lord has called to Himself.

Kenzo

5y↑14

You're a blessing RC Sproul 🙏🏿

Eric Evans

5y↑9

Such good teaching, Dr. Sproul has helped me so much to grow in my understanding of doctrine.

jamesapt66

7y↑12

Wow this is such a powerful teaching and so exegetically sound.

ilkin engin

@KK TL hahaha wrong

Mike Duke

3y↑1

@KK TL It is truly sad for you because you are perishing. Pray to God that you may be counted among those who have been chosen.

Evan U

6y↑1

jamesapt66

Hey James. Would you be willing to discuss what has been taught here?

I believe that RC takes passages out of context.

Hope to hear from you.

God bless

KK TL

6y↑1

Too bad it is false doctrine

Gabriel Guimarães

6y↑7

Wow! I'm speechless. Praise the Lord!

jeff ouellette

5y↑6

It is the Spirit that draws us to the Father.

The Adhd Gardener

3y↑2

I love his theology teachings..u learn so much from a deeper learning perspective

Aleks Jeff

4y↑4

It's so cool how at some point Jesus said that only through him you can come to The Father, and here He said that the Father chooses or draws someone for Jesus, how amazing is that because it just shows how connected they are, that God is at the same time The Father, The Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
God Bless!

Jo Kelechi

4y↑11

I want to see water resistant to being drawn from a well

Mike Duke

3y↑2

A valid observation and quite true!

Caribe transportation

5y↑6

Very great sermon. By DR. RC Sproul

Neil Estuye

7y↑16

Bless you Ligonier for these old gems. God be praised!

Mike Duke

@KK TL All you have is criticism. That is all. No words of encouragement or uplifting or exhorting. Nothing to add. Just subjective exegis of your dark mind.

KK TL

for misinterpretting the Bible?

Baymax 0815

7y↑20

Love Dr.Sproul teaching!

KK TL

@Mike Duke according to you? yeah right

Mike Duke

@KK TL you are wrong

Mike Duke

@chjaka no

KK TL

Note that this is not a correct teaching.

motorTranz

3y↑1

R.C. Sproul was one of the great theological minds in Christianity. His lectures were fantastic! Thank you for posting these!

Terry Sordal

4y↑2

Absolutely awesome teaching by RC Sproul!!

Andrew Scollick

8y↑44

I'm glad I was 'drawn' to this video series

Evan U

Friendly Fire

Extrapolate what specifically? I’m not sure what part of the conversation you’re referring to.

God bless.

Friendly Fire

@Sheep Dog I call red herring on that; sorry ,been following your guys convo. You guys are glorifying Christ in this. Thank you guys.

Friendly Fire

@Evan U please extrapolate sir.

Friendly Fire

#theologicalfacts

Cory Lewis

So Satan isn't flesh either! Neither were the angels that sinned that you will be joining unless you repent. You have no gospel!

46 More Replies...

Big Chief Trucker

3y↑1

You also have the verse where Peter is drawing a net full of fish in that, the net was near tearing. He certainly was not wooing that heavy net in. He was dragging it to his boat with GREAT effort.

Denise Smith

9y↑8

EXCELLENT!!!!

ilkin engin

@KK TL hahaha. U are funny

KK TL

6y↑1

If you like Calvinistic heresy

TOLZY T

Absolutely brilliant!

S. C.

7y↑28

Those videos should have millions of views ..why they r so few!

terminat1

4y↑1

@Aaron Pilkey Nobody will believe in a pleasing way unless God saves them. That's the entire point of the Bible. We're dead in sins and unable to please God. This is why God elected a people for Himself based on His sovereign decision, and not at all on works or a person's desire (Romans 9:15-16).

Even the devils believe, but they still tremble. Faith from a dead person doesn't make the difference.

terminat1

@Aaron Pilkey The faith of salvation is the faith of Christ (Galatians 2:16, 20). That is, when God saves someone He gives them saving faith.

terminat1

4y↑1

@Aaron Pilkey We'll agree to disagree. If a person becomes saved because they believe, then they have something to boast about. Their direct choice/action led to their becoming saved.

And everyone by nature rejects God, as Romans 3 teaches. The only ones who respond with saving faith are those whom God has elected to salvation.

Faith is a work (I Thessalonians 1:3).

Aaron Pilkey

4y↑1

Aaron Pilkey

4y↑1

13 More Replies...

Chánh Trung Lê

What an excellent teacher!

ArtisticLayman

5y↑2

The woman at 19:40 got the point right off the bat.

Cory Lewis

6y↑3

What I am totally amazed at is anyone who opposes this great doctrine of God screams HERESY from the mountain tops and then wants to point to themselves (exactly what Satan does) to literally save themselves..... This creature God made to act in their own pride when the text reads the opposite in so many different areas and Jesus Christ telling all those sheep to deny themselves (disassociate yourself with the person you are), yet you disassociate yourself with Who God really is. Looking at this the Armenian way would make God not sovereign and in control, almighty man in position to know better than God and the rest of His Word a lie and subject to mans own interpretation. Whatever sounds good to him or her. You want to talk about arrogance pointing to sovereign man........

Come worship the god I created that makes man sovereign over God who bows down to what we say. Of course you want the attention on you because the God of the bible is foolishness to you. You want a god that will be whatever you want it to be and then you "think" you use 2-3 verses throughout the entire bible to back up your claims when the rest of scripture refutes that. You want to claim what's being taught here is a lie and heresy with nothing to back that up and then this tremendous hatred of a man you know nothing about which is John Calvin who didn't even spend a whole lot of time on this subject. You don't know God or what His Word means or even anything about this man John Calvin whom you totally hate (showing that fruit of the Spirit with your hatred) literally proving to anyone reading that knows the Word of God that you do not belong to Him! Unbelievable, the pride and arrogance!!!

Aaron Pilkey

@Alvin505 Haha soo true!

Alvin505

2y↑1

@Aaron Pilkey amen brother
Also, it’s been said “if you ever want to go to seminary for free, just get in an argument with a calvinist”

Aaron Pilkey

5y↑3

Aaron Pilkey

5y↑3

Zujamo Ngullie

Where can I find this whole series?

Pided Piper

And when he grabs us there's no letting go he will never leave us alone

Maria Lamb

3y↑1

Truly Grasping this truth causes one to prostrate oneself before God crying and thanking God for choosing to reach down in his mercy for the purpose of compelling you to come to him. I am so grateful that I was compelled by God to come to him at the age of four years old.

natserog

7y↑2

so good!!

Jonathan Fontenot

@chjaka I fool no more with the foolish. I will say this though. To say that Calvinism is evil is dangerous, and probably detrimental to your faith and others around you. You call it demonic, but if it is true, and it is (whether you are willing to accept it or not) you are calling the biblical God demonic. That is a damnable heresy. You damn your own Christian brothers to hell with your accusation of demonic doctrine, you spurn the Christ of the Bible, and you spit in the face of God's sovereignty. That is no small thing, so if I were you, I would tread carefully. You just might be trampling the Son of God in your misplaced zeal. There was no straw-man argument here. It was a very simple, straight-forward, biblical argument about the sovereignty of God and how Calvinism does not make God the author of sin. You in no way tried to engage with the text, instead, you spouted foolishness. I will say no more, but I truly do pity you, for I fear that in your zeal, you have missed the mark of Christian character, and quite possibly missed the Christ of the Bible. Unless you repent, and put your faith in Christ, you will perish, and the Lord will say to you the most frightening words in the Bible, "Depart from me you who work iniquity, for I never knew you". I pray that God will grant you repentance.

Jonathan Fontenot

@chjaka " So, what you are saying is that you hating Calvinism does not necessitate that you hate the people that believe it. Gotcha." quoted from above where I did own up to that already. I am sorry and I understand the distinction. If you cannot respect me, then that is a personal maturity problem that you need to remedy, because I have done nothing wrong aside from what I have already mentioned. "Satanic Doctrine" , What an absolutely foolish statement. It is ridiculous opinion to have, especially since so many solid Christian teachers and theologians have been Calvinist. How exactly do you square with accusing Spurgeon, Knox, Luther, Calvin, Zwingly, Beza, MacArthur, Piper, Sproul, Lawson,, Whitefield, Bavnick, Schaff, Ferguson, Hodge, Turrentin, and hundreds perhaps thousands of other guys who lived God glorifying lives as Christ-loving Calvinists. To call it "Demonic" is absolutely reprehensible not only to me, but to Christ himself. I pray you take off your anti-Calvinist glasses and study the doctrines of grace with an objective attitude. I have nothing to repent of brother, but I hope you come to an understanding of the truth. No luck needed, and I will surely seek the Lord.

Jonathan Fontenot

@chjaka On Sevretus https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-servetus-affair . Slander implies that somthing is spoken that is untrue, but you are mistaken here. You have not been slandered, because your assertion "Calvinism makes God the author of sin" is not true, and you will not find on Calvinistic comment or doctrine that says so. In fact, Wesley made this attack on Calvinism as well, but Whitefield soundly refuted such foolishness. God is the creator of Lucifer. Of that we likely agree. God is sovereign over all things. On that we likely disagree, however, nothing in this universe happens outside of the plan of God. He either directly decrees His will, or he passively allows certain things to happen in His sovereignty. Either way, He is accomplishing His redemptive purposes throughout history whether through the sins of men (the crucifixion) or through the efforts of His holy people (apostolic teaching, inerrant nature of the Word). God remains holy and sanctified from sin in His essential nature, but he is in no way limited from doing good through those who seek to do evil. An example is Joseph. His brothers sold him into slavery, but God was working out his plan of redemption. Reflecting on all that transpired, Joseph told his brothers, "20 As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today." Genesis 50:20. Therefore, God is holy, but wise enough to work through the evil intentions of men. Summary, God is holy and He is not the author of sin, but sin being conceived in created beings was providentially allowed to happen so that all of redemptive history would be accomplished through the blood of Christ.

Jonathan Fontenot

@chjaka This proves you have no understanding of Calvinism.

Jonathan Fontenot

@chjaka I am a history teacher. So, what you are saying is that you hating Calvinism does not necessitate that you hate the people that believe it. Gotcha. Now, please explain one "demonic" doctrine of Calvinism. Also, I would read up on the situation with Sevretus. It is wildly unhistorical to say that Calvin was in any way determined to burn the heretic. He approved on biblical grounds, and surely he participated, but in those times, such was life, many times even among Christians. I am not saying it was right, but Christians sin as a normal part of life, even in sanctification. You know the one public sin of Calvin, but do you know the many secret sins of non-calvinistic theologians that amount to murder in the eyes of God? Something to ponder. The burning of Sevretus is a non-issue here because we are talking about the doctrinal formulations of Calvin, not his personal life. So please, name one "Demonic" doctrine of Calvin, with a reference to the Institutes or his commentaries, and we will look at it together.

2 More Replies...

The S Word

Of course while we are alive... mortally, we are living Litteraly 'In The Flesh" like "Whitewashed Tombs... inside are full of Dead Men's bones".. we will be "regenerate" when we are Born again into The Kingdom of God... in Glorified Bodies... not before. "We see through the glass darkly" till then, no matter how much light or wisdom we have or profess to have.
We are Ants noting other Ant hills and declaring them to be The Cosmos.

Fourth Castillo

Where is the Sufficient Condition for salvation?

Thomas von Buddenbrock

And all of this only pertains only to justification and not our righteous standing? Lol.

Gabriela Pratas

EXCELLENT.

Silverlady

who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:6‭-‬11‭, ‬13 ESV

Rector Cadayday

5y↑1

Granting “draw” literary means “to compel, to drag by force” the how about John 12:32
‘And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.’ The same word is used here. Does this mean then that all men will be saved? As you said, to compel by force.

Todd Cote

3y↑4

stephen mcauley

MORRIS BABYFACE TV That is the Arminian viewpoint. Did you even listen to this lecture?

Mad Cow

Evan U so Arminian is correct it’s not irresistible?

Evan U

Jason Schmidt

Hosea 11:4 I drew them with cords of a man, with bands of love: and I was to them as they that take off the yoke on their jaws, and I laid meat unto them.

The Septuagint used the same Greek word here for “draw”.

MORRIS BABYFACE TV

4y↑1

It means all men shall have the chance to be saved..the rest Wil depend on us wether we want to be saved or not..

1 More Replies...

Jesus Garcia

5y↑1

Amen

The King

Now wait a moment. The flesh still profits nothing because the flesh is the reason why you need to be saved. The problem cannot then be the solution. To feel the conviction of hearing the perfect law of God and consent, how does give praise to the flesh? Moments ago the flesh only knew to compare itself with other sinners to make it feel better about itself. Now it knows it is in sin, the flesh is given an ultimatum by God. Either step down in fealty or stand up in defiance.

Is this because of some idea that God, in His supremacy and sovreign authority, cannot be enabled to do something by His creation? Is this because of an idea that faith is entirely a gift of God and unnatural in sinful humanity?

But the Lord has enabled the choice, that whosoever believes upon the Son might then see eternal life, and sinful humanity puts its faith in the creation and denies the Creator who is blessed forever. Obviously we have a measure of faith imparted into us at birth like how we have a measure of strength imparted into the tiny baby body, for if when we grow old we are able to misplace it, we must have a faith that can be misplaced.

MountainDew7

The necessary condition is being human, and having the ability to reason. In other words all men. Romans 1:20. Sproul also gives a good illustration of how the word "can" can come to have two different subtle meanings, but then seems to forget all about that when going on about the translation of the word "drawn".

C. C.

He didn’t say “can” has two meanings, but that it has come to be used to mean two different things. “Can” does not refer to permission, yet that’s how it’s often used today. It speaks to capability. No man is capable of coming to the Son unless the Father draws him.
What are the different meanings of “drawn” that you could use here. Drawn as in “pulled towards” or drawn as in “sketched with a writing utensil?” Both would speak to it being up to the Father to pull or to sketch (create) one as a believer or not.

Brayden

Amen Sproul. The Father calls us to His Son, our Saviour Jesus Christ. May we praise His blessed name forevermore. God bless you all.

Shirley wong

4y↑2

Please 🙏 for my children and I

Shirley wong

@Mike Duke thank you so much

Mike Duke

3y↑1

I will Shirley.

Shirley wong

4y↑2

He was a handsome guy

Akitorbenov

When a man is in chains in a prison, usually desire, crave for freedom, but can't move 3 meters cause of the chains. He can't chose freedom, but desires it. There are some prisoners that feels comfortable behind the bars and prefer not to be freed. Man can't go to Christ, but may desire to try. I know a person that defines herself as atheist, but pray and ask for Christ to show in her life, but still she can't see nor feel Him. She can't go to Him, but desires Him to go to her. I know for a fact it is just a matter of time, but still she is a sinner craving for God. Also about the free will fact....I've never heard these doctors talk about the fact that Adam and Eve eated from the tree of good and evil, so they can recognise what is G and what is E and many unbelivers chose what is G instead of what is E

Sarah Ward

Sarah Ward. The point is because (God the Father God the Holy Spirit and God the Son are One). They all must be of one accord ¡😇😇😇😇😇

Claudio Cledjo Matoco

But wait..! If no one can come to Jesus unless the Father enable him first, why many times the Bible uses the conditional language?

Todd Cote

A verse such as?

Mike Lee from Alaska

Yes!!😄✌

Frampa

5y↑1

28:56 IF

Victoria Wheat

Will the Father drag me?

KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC

I hope so.

wspek

4y↑1

Can someone explain to me how Rom. 1:20 ties into this? If man is without excuse, is man not actively choosing hostility to God? And if he is without excuse, does that not mean he has a choice to choose God? While being in the flesh?

Veronica McDonald

@wspek I have the same question! This verse and others don’t quite jive with the Augustinian view, in my mind. I hope someone can explain it...

stephen mcauley

wspek man is without excuse because God has clearly made himself known in creation. People who live in the Amazon jungle who have never seen a white man, let alone hear from a preacher the word of God. Are still aware that God exist. I wasn’t heard a story from a missionary who went and witnessed to a cannibal tribe living in the jungle. The missionary said that when they had killed and eaten another tribe member, they buried the bones. Ask yourself why bury the bones? They didn’t bury animal bones. The reason the missionary gave was, that there conscience convicted them that they had done wrong, and they buried the bones to hid there guilt. But you’ll probably ask, hid there guilt from who? The obvious answer would be God as the law of God is written in their hearts, knowing the difference between good and evil. So men are without excuse for they know God exist.

wspek

3y↑1

@Mike Duke Hi Mike, I understand this. We are saved through Jesus Christ. But it is not the answer to my question.

If we are without excuse to acknowledge God, as Romans 1:20 says...then faith must come before regeneration.

If we do not have the ability to look to God then WE DO have an excuse (i.e. we can say our excuse is that we simply don't have the ability to look to God) and then Rom. 1:20 is not true.

This is my problem with Calvinism. I can't get it to fit with these kinds of verses.

Mike Duke

Rich Rioux

chjaka Oh I'm 100% not a calvinist and calvinism is not gosple of Jesus Christ.

Rich Rioux

Sheep Dog I ment to recorect post I'm typing on my phone and some times hit wrong letter i have a small keyboard amd some times it mess up. Sorry about that.

Dj Zak

3y↑3

Soli Deo Gloria!

Meg Skerchak

God dragging us to Him denotes force. I'm sure Paul and Silas didn't want to be taken into custody. They were taken in against their will. So you're implying that God draws(or drags)someone to Himself. What kind of relationship is that? A man woos a woman - courts her, loves her - and she chooses to enter into a marriage relationship with him. If he walked in and dragged her out by her hair and forced her to marry him, the marriage may still take place, but it would be built on fear and domination. Are you implying that is the kind of relationship God wants with man? How can there be true reciprocal love in such a relationship? True love and trust is the foundation of any genuine and lasting relationship. Forced love is built on fear - and it isn't true love at all.

Meg Skerchak

@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC You are not a very kind person.

KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC

Why do women always want to turn this into what it is not? If it hasn't happened to you, how would you understand? Jesus Christ is not your boyfriend. The Spirit compels through the conviction of sin, righteousness and judgement - He opens the eyes and shows a person his unholy condition before a holy God. This brings about in the person the necessary humility that desperately cries out from the heart to God who is merciful. Nobody just walks away from such a divine encounter or forms some silly fleshly idea about it as you have.

ilkin engin

Cant woo a dead man. Unless ur God, if God can that is 😂😂😂😂 soli deo Gloria

albusai

So John 3:16 is so God loved the afew lucky chosen ones that gave his only begotten Son so that those he prewired to believe will be given eternal life ?

YeshuaIsKing12

no its: for God so loved the world that he gave his only beggotten son that those who are dead and deaf and blind and incapable of believing in him would have a vain hipotetical unreal possibility to be saved if they being dead excercise faith in the potential attonement and thus saving themselves by their work of exercising faith, thats what john 3:16 says ...

Rich Rioux

Scott Davidson

You know that Sproul would agree with you on preservation of the saints? But if you want to get at limited atonement. Read Isaiah 53, and Matthew 26:27-28 and ALL OF HEBREWS 2. Don't just isolate verse 9 because the writer of Hebrews in the entire chapter clarifies who he meant by "all". By the way the KJV is adding in "man" to verse 9. In greek the word being used here is "pas". Which simply means "all". All can be either a universal word or a limited term. When you read all of chapter 2 then you realize that the writer is talking about a limited group.

By the way. Romans 9 refutes the idea that an atheist can find an excuse before God.

So simply put. (And I realize I haven't definitely proved your wrong yet but I will wait for a reply.) You don't know Calvinism. And you cherry pick these passages in order to prove your point.

Rich Rioux

Scott Davidson

Your point?

albusai

So some are forced to believe? I’m glad I was lucky chosen one that got drag

Aaron Pilkey

4y↑1

Todd Cote

@Aaron Pilkey
God bless you

Aaron Pilkey

4y↑1

Aaron Pilkey

4y↑1

Todd Cote

4y↑1

@Aaron Pilkey
Interesting argument. Clearly you had an agenda as you skipped over what I said "yes" to. You should reread your question more diligently. No where did I argue that you had to believe to see or see to believe either. I was answering your question the way you presented it. My yes was that one must be born again prior to seeing or believing. I'll continue though, that this is only from a logical perspective because it's not as though this happens, in time, in the literal sense. You could also say it happens all at the same time, and be true to scriptures.

At the end of the day it's kinda splitting hairs though. Because when regeneration happens to a dead man, all he knows is he was dead, but is now alive. That's what matters. That one finds peace in the mercy of God his Saviour.

5 More Replies...

KK TL

6y↑1

Sproul now knows that his Calvinism was incorrect and he misled many. So tragic when people get caught up in this garbage.

Jonathan Fontenot

5y↑5

I left Arminianism for the solid teaching of Reformed Theology. You have no argument that I have not heard. I went through a radical and violent change over these doctrines and arrived at the truth with the help of Dr. Sproul. If you disagree, that is fine, but your tone in not Christ-like, nor have you said anything productive. In fact, I would argue that you have sinned against your brothers by asserting that Calvinism is "garbage". If you seek to discuss, then discuss, but if you wish to attack, then you need to learn discernment before you comment online. I had to do the same.

Dean Camp

I'd agree with that.

KK TL

Scott Campbell GI me a couple of weeks. God does not keep people unable to understand the gospel.

Dean Camp

6y↑1

Would love to - next time you post a debatable argument instead of ad-hominem. Where do you believe RC got the Greek text wrong?

KK TL

Scott Campbell whatever. Debate me then

1 More Replies...

KK TL

This is not a correct interpretation. Stay away from this Calvinistic Heresy.

Silverlady

4y↑1

Calvin is a man that believed in the doctrine of Grace, God's sovreignity in salvation.

John 3:16 does show God the Father loved His creation (the whole world) so much that He mercyfull/graciously sent His Son as a random for many (not the whole world), and whoever believes will not perish and have eternal life. Key word who believes! The verse doesn't say to save every person in the whole world.

Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart. But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God's word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 4:1‭-‬6 ESV