The Binary Marketing Show is a lo-fi indie / shimmer psych duo from Portlan… Read Full Bio ↴The Binary Marketing Show is a lo-fi indie / shimmer psych duo from Portland, Oregon.

They resided for four years in the New York and meanwhile recorded their first seven releases.
Afterwards, in 2011, they packed all of their belongings into a mid-nineties Jeep Cherokee and began the life of homeless nomads traveling the continental U.S. in support of their sixth album because of this, this, and this.

Discography:
- a guide to misinterpreting popular music (LP, 2004)
- what untruth! (EP, 2005)
- aesthetics (LP, 2005)
- yield what you may (EP, 2007)
- Destruction of Your Own Creation (LP, 2007)
- Pattern (LP, 2009)
- Clues From the Past (LP, 2010)
- Beating an Electric Heart (Single, 2011)
- because of this, this, and this (LP, 2011)
- Anticipation of Something Else (LP, 2014)
- Daydream (I Cannot) (Single, 2018)
- Short-Term Fix For a Long-Term Death (LP, 2018)

Bandcamp

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01Am Not Who3:25

02I Hate My Brain3:17

03Thin Window3:15

04Unwilling5:27

PT5M27S

The Binary Marketing Show

05Mirror4:30

06Procession2:55

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Unwilling
The Binary Marketing Show Lyrics

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The lyrics are frequently found in the comments by searching or by filtering for lyric videos

Most interesting comment from YouTube:

Zak Nyberg

40w↑10

Thank you for doing a video on this topic.

When I was in high school I was seeking a business mentor to learn more about entrepreneurship. Low and behold this attracted an MLM recruiter. I remember having a meeting with him where he introduced me to his other “mentee”and how “he saw something special in him.” The kid worked at IHOP and was definitely English second language. Sadly, I knew it wasn’t because he saw something in him, and more saw him as gullible to his “financial freedom” talk. I hate that they take advantage of minorities seeking a better life.

Thankfully I never spent any money and got out once I learned of the company which was Amway. Like anyone with internet connection, I Googled Amway and learned what it truly was. The next meeting I had with the recruiter I started to ask some very direct questions to which I was brushed off or given vague answers to.

I remember the recruiters mentor flaunting a very average middle class suburban lifestyle. Which to me didn’t scream “financial freedom” like the dreams of Lamborghini’s and coastal real estate. I was like “soo what’s the big deal…”

I felt frustrated in the end because I wanted to expose the cult like behaviors and convince the recruiter he was doing something wrong. I sent him John Oliver’s video on MLMs and again was brushed off.

What frustrates me the most is they cut you off the minute you start exposing them. Making it impossible to actually convince them or others inside what MLMs actually are.

All comments from YouTube:

How Money Works

40w↑57

Go to https://sponsr.is/cs_howmoneyworks and use code HOWMONEYWORKS to save 25% off today. Thanks to Curiosity Stream for sponsoring today’s video.

Julian Benali

40w↑1

I’ve gotta disagree with your definition of MLM at 1:14. Not all MLM’s require a a fee, or any payment for that matter. I can name at least one MLM which does require payment of any kind, including for the company’s products, but which still satisfies the FTC’s definition of an MLM. That’s not to say this MLM isn’t bad, just bad in a different way than you describe.

Alexandre Oliveira

40w

You talk about a lot of shady companies, do you make your due dilligence when accepting sponsoship?

whoami 2020

40w

😂

Persona

40w

@Julian Benali So name it. Which MLM is this?

Julian Benali

40w↑1

@Persona CutCo/Vector Marketing

3 More Replies...

Chameron Blav

40w↑2.7K

Finally now these evil companies can stop hurting the reputation of my pyramid schemes

James Goodman

40w↑40

😅😂😅.

Priyansh Verma

40w↑12

Lmfaoooo

Coach Williams

40w↑10

🤣🤣🤣... well played. You got me with that one.

Nickel Butt

40w↑1

LOL!

🤮

Quickbuck

40w↑9

thanks this made me genuinely laugh till my stomach hurt , its been a while since that happened

14 More Replies...

Tom Smith

40w↑551

Years ago, I worked for a Big 4 accounting firm, and we were the auditors for a major MLM. I was shocked to see that a HUGE portion of the revenue (and Profit) from the MLM was selling training materials - tapes, books, seminars, rallies, etc. NOT from selling products.

free_at_last

39w↑64

The gold miners don't get rich, the ones selling them their shovels get rich.

Tom Smith

39w↑7

@free_at_last I think thats how Nordstroms got started.

Robutube1

39w↑4

There's a very well made video on YT by the historian Sean Munger that looks at this in Amway. It's called The Tools Cult and was an eyeopener for me.

Just perusing

39w

If I had to guess, I’d hope Primerica.

Leibniz

39w↑6

They sell the dream, not the products.

6 More Replies...

Jack Van Kirk

40w↑181

Rule of thumb: if the company you're applying for or interviewing with can't tell you what their business does in plain English, it's probably a scam.

Sophie Downey

40w↑25

"We're making the world a better place by marketing cloud-based platform innovation."

Hunter

39w↑18

@Sophie Downeyyou forgot to add "ai" and machine learning 😂

Sophie Downey

39w↑15

@Hunter "through artificial intelligence powered by machine learning on a neural network through the Blockchain."

FlameUser64

39w↑4

I mean these days that's most companies. "Legitimate businesses" barely exist anymore.

GreyPunkWolf

38w↑2

A scam for society, yeah. But most of those jobs are actually real jobs from real companies making real profit. Which is even sadder.

5 More Replies...

magic magic

40w↑808

This is so disheartening. These MLMs target vulnerable people and then isolate them. We need more people who earn money ethically, like my uncle who robs banks

James Goodman

40w↑41

I hear the mafia's hiring 🤔...... you heard nothing 😉😇.

R8Spike

40w↑15

Bank money is secured upto 100k

Miguel del Mazo

40w↑4

That's where the money is!

Jeong-hun Sin

40w↑12

Rob those congressmen who earned fortune with inside stock trading.

soothing_stream

40w↑50

Bank robbers are vital for the economy. They provide jobs for guards, insurance agents, bulletproof glass fabricators, PTSD therapists, and police detectives. They pay for themselves really

17 More Replies...

Khan Osama

40w↑347

My wife and I got involved in the Herbalife scam and I ended up over $15,000 poorer. Finally it dawned on me the only one making serious money was our upline. The couple had a beautiful home in a gated community as well as a cabin in Idaho. I finally realized that all we were doing was to fuel their lifestyle. So I pulled out and my wife left a couple of months later.

The really reprehensible thing, though, is how they are scamming poor Latinos. I attended a couple of seminars and saw the hope in those people's faces. Most of them end up poorer than when they started MLMs are despicable.

LAR

39w↑28

A lot of the Latinos/Hispanics don’t know any better. MLMs aren’t something they are familiar with so it’s a lot easier to target them. Along with providing a sense of hope for a better future.

That’s all we really want, a better future. MLMs know this and take advantage of everyone. Give people hope and you pretty much have complete control.

Robutube1

39w↑5

@LAR Where Scientology goes, MLMs follow... (I'm aware that Mormons are over-represented in MLM leadership; my comment is more about pivoting to a new audience when the old one has got wise to your scam).

Anthony

37w

It is possible to make more than your upline though.

Prima61

37w

Was the $15K a membership fee?

7 More Replies...

NotVenom

40w↑396

It's a scam that doesn't meet the legal requirement of a scam.

Demmrir

40w↑98

It's a scam that isn't legally a scam because they paid the government to write the laws to make them not a scam.

Like how sports betting apps aren't gambling because they paid legislatures to exempt them from gambling laws.

NotVenom

40w↑11

@Demmrir agreed

foxymetroid

40w↑19

A lot of it is because courts sometimes love being extra strict with what constitutes a crime where "case law" is concerned. A company was convicted of being a pyramid scheme, so the courts used that case to set the absolute bare minimum of what constitutes a pyramid scheme. I think that minimum involved how much of their revenue came from recruitment instead of actual goods or services. So now MLMs just have to avoid reaching that minimum.

Persona

40w↑3

@Demmrir To be specific Gerald Ford is the one responsible for the laws to make them not a scam. Yeah, that Gerald Ford.

Fox

40w↑1

@Demmriri find sport betting less than gambling than MLM not being a pyramid scheme because there are actually people who can predict those well (and get squeezed out because they don't like people winning)

7 More Replies...

Lam

40w↑384

When I was in the military one of our Sergeants got involved in one of these companies. I knew her before she joined the MLM, and the change in her personality (from hard core no-nonsense type to befriending everyone in the unit) was part of what tipped me off that this wasn't a good idea.

She tried to get me to join and (being the naive junior Marine I was) I went to a few meetings. I eventually got out after a few weeks, but in hindsight it was really messed up for her to abuse her authority and our trust in an NCO to shake us down for money.

Chris

40w↑10

Yeesh, that is fucking crazy man.

Rebecca white

40w↑18

Maybe she genuinely believed she could make a profit from this. I have friends who have strong beliefs that they can make money from it.

You go to see it through but they are blind. Don’t blame her😣

Rick Santos

40w↑15

@Rebecca white true not her fault. Govt needs to step in crush these MLMs

Rick Santos

40w↑3

@Rebecca white lol instead of protecting people were giving the CEO of Amway a path to citizenship

Volkbrecht

40w↑4

My mother joined one. Hearing how she advertised it, I knew from the start she would not make it. She still buys some of their stuff, though, and occasionally attends their big hype-fests because it's a chance for her to hang out with friends. Imo MLMs get their bad rep unjustified. The entry barrier is very low, and the promise of getting a salary at some point is tempting. Of course this will draw in a lot of idiots, and of course there will be tough competition, because hey, who doesn't dream of starting their own business on the side?

When my mom and her sponsor, who was one of her coworkers, tried to recruit me, I declined. I had just moved out to study and they were seing this as chance to widen their circle. I of course pointed out to them that pennyless undergrads are not quite their target demografic. They did't quite get it, but they accepted the no.

4 More Replies...

Eugene T Chu

40w↑707

I am a military veteran and know of some military spouses or veterans that joined an MLM. They mistakenly believed that it would provide entrepreneurial opportunities with flexibility. They sadly quit when they lost money from bad products, bad structure and too much competition.

Blaise

40w↑40

Veterans fall for that shit more than anyone from what I've seen lol unfortunate

prw56

40w↑49

Its not sad that they quit an mlm, its sad that they got suckered in to begin with. Quitting is way better than sticking around.

Mattitude

40w↑14

I feel bad for them, they move to the middle of nowhere with their husband. There are no jobs in the area and military pay is low so they try to make some money

Business Wolf

40w↑8

they *fortunately quit

Beware the Lily of the Valley

40w↑21

@Mattitude I've heard it's usually the military wives, not because their husband's don't make enough, but because of community. Being uprooted every few years means saying goodbye to friends or having trouble making any. An MLM provides a possible source of friendship and you can then build a "community" off of it wherever else you go. This is why I've heard that while losing money in MLM's is bad, many are hurt the most at the connections they lose when they leave an MLM and those still within are ordered to cut that person off (yes, very much like a cult. MLM's and cults have a lot of similarities).

16 More Replies...

The Dark Mind Of A Mad Man

40w↑432

I've had people pretend to be my "friends" and women pretend to be interested in me or even dating me, when in reality they just wanted to sign me up for their MLM. Thank god I never did.

Fraydizs

40w↑68

Thats actually psychotic behavior lol

767

40w↑10

haha I know IRL few of these and it's all thx to herbascam

Rexx

40w↑14

Haha, yeah same here, this woman was acting interested in me then started trying to get me to go to a seminar and sign up under her for an alkaline water system.

Fedyx 1

40w↑8

EZ just pump and dump the pyramid offering girls

Beware the Lily of the Valley

40w↑26

@Fedyx 1Not going to happen. First they're going to ask for a meeting with you that will sound like a date, but it's not. You may show up to a coffee shop or restaurant to find you two are not alone, she's brought along someone else (likely, her "upline"). Should you sit down, you will be talked to about vague aspirational goals and being your own boss, but never will they get to the crux of the conversation until they feel they've hooked you. They won't give the name of the company up front, because they're scared you're going to quickly Google it and find all of the search results that end in "scam". You will be intensely pressured to join the "business opportunity" and if you decline, you are likely never going to see that person again, because that is your worth to them, just another person in their downline to make them money.

So, "hitting and quitting" is not very likely to happen (and that also makes you just as bad as them, using them only for sex the same way they are using you only for recruitment. Now, if you don't mind lying in bed with dogs and getting fleas, so be it).

17 More Replies...

werty werrtyson

40w↑119

You lose money and friends and family. Sounds a lot like drug addiction. It’s a disgrace that MLMs aren’t illegal.

Amey SKulkarni

40w↑26

It's worse. You deliberately cut people off. That's a cult, not just an addiction. Evil.

Fox

40w↑10

@Amey SKulkarnialso, there's no high, only chasing for one

Mike Zzyby

40w↑6

@Amey SKulkarniyeah mlms clearly studied cults to not just financially ruin cult members but make active recruiters to the cult as well

Volkbrecht

40w

Nobody forces you to join. It's true that they try to harness their social circles. Just say no. I did. My mom's still my mom.

Amey SKulkarni

40w↑2

@Volkbrecht The video literally just explained how these companies take advantage of bulna people and strong social structures. Are you not capable of comprehending?

2 More Replies...

garreswe

40w↑78

I was considering one MLM (went to a couple of meetings and bought some products) and joined another and the first thing they tell you is to contact your friends and family to invite them to meetings. I felt super disingenuous and awkward while calling and reading the script and I'm glad I only talked to a few. These things can really mess up your relationships if you do what they tell you.

Noah Quiles

39w↑3

Yes!!!! I experienced such a change in the way my relationships were affected after trying to get in touch with EVERYONE about this, when I got sucked into it 🙃

jay nycha

40w↑139

"You are not selling clothes, you are giving people freedom" 🙄

Rexx

40w↑26

That's so dumb it could only work in America.

🌟 Wander the Nomad

40w↑15

@Rexx Never underestimate the stupidity of humans. Wherever humans are, stupidity can be found.

Rexx

40w↑16

@Kostas Mouratidis I hear you but in this case Americans seem particularly gullible about anything the word "freedom" is attached too. I still remember the white house back during the war in Iraq renaming "French fries" to "freedom fries" because the French weren't showing support for our debacle.

11 More Replies...

Miguelino

40w↑67

As a latino in Latinamerica, there was a wave of Herbalife in which my older brother fell into, and only stopped pushing it to us as his family after his aunt scolded him hard for "tricking" him into a wine tasting session which was actually a herbalife session

JDM

39w↑3

Mismo situación en USA. Muchos latinos se involucran con MLMs.

Bren

40w↑27

One thing I’ve come to realize is that it doesn’t matter what product an MLM sells because the actual product are the sellers/customers. They are the money generators for those at the top as they continue spending money on physical product in the hopes of selling enough to get to the top themselves. I feel like once you realize that you are the product, it becomes much easier to leave compared to those who fall prey to the sunk cost fallacy.

faaaaah

40w↑37

I didn't know what Herbalife was back then but I went to their office for a 'free lunch session'. I sat there listening to these people hyping up a chocolate shake they gave us (it's a meal substitute for dieting), all the while wondering when is the food coming. Took me way too long to realise that they're saying the stupid shake IS lunch, and that this was a sale/recruitment session. I went away hungry and upset and I hated the company ever since.

Terry Titus

39w↑3

A liquid lunch,wow!
How deceptive,these things are.They tend to go to expensive restaurants while new people are sitting there broke!

China Arlene

36w

😂😂😂😂 this is hilarious

Zugly the Book Monster

35w↑2

I'd be so irritated, thinking I was getting a yummy free lunch and just getting a crappy shake and sales pitch. They're so manipulative. Why would they think that tricking people would appeal to them? Although unfortunately it must work, I don't understand why

WDSimp

40w↑53

When you started talking about MLMs isolating people from their families and convincing them to turn to the company ecosystem for human interaction is when it clicked for me.

That's a thing that cults do.

Cindy Temple

34w

well that sounds just like a 9 to 5 you are stuck there all day with 'coworkers' and team builders and blah blah.

Deanna Jackson

40w↑29

I have family that fell for an MLM. My mom was in Tahitian Noni International. A cousin was sold Cutco knives while he was in high school. I got told that I'm "being negative" when I questioned anything. One of my favorite books on this topic is "Ponzinomics: The Untold Story of Multi-Level Marketing" by Robert L. Fitzpatrick.

KatrinkaRose

38w↑2

I went to a "job interview" for Cutco knives during college and almost got sucked in but was too broke to get into it. Once out of their space it didn't take very long to realize I was glad I didn't buy in but they're good at what they do.

Vlad Sams

40w↑80

Reminds me the time me and my friend in our late teens stumbled on a job posting, where someone wanted a website. We went there, the guy started shilling his miracle pills, we didn't know what MLM was, but when we realised he's not paying us for a site, wants us to make one and do all the work selling pills that we'd have to buy as broke teens, we just left really confused, wondering who'd be stupid enough to agree :V

Volkbrecht

40w↑4

So much this! All you need to know is that there is no free lunch, which most halfway smart people understand in their teens.

CatsMeowPaw

40w↑30

I had a good friend who was so excited to have been made a 'network manager' at World Ventures MLM. She boasted that she paid only $2000 for the position. I almost hit the floor. Of course they were happy to make her a 'manager' if they were getting thousands of dollars from her, as well as hefty monthly fees.
She quit the MLM a couple of years later, never recouping her investment or huge amounts of time promoting 'her' business.

Kartos

40w↑71

I wanted to sell things when Amazon was still new, and they acted like I was crazy for trying to focus on sales and not signing people up. Stole my contacts and started calling them without my permission, absolutely awful.

eugene olewuenyi

40w↑1

Which company?

Chris

40w↑15

Yeah not focusing on sales is a huge red flag.

Volkbrecht

40w↑5

You tried the right thing, though. It's how MLMs originally became sucessful. By selling decent products, and occasionally recruiting customers that seem to have what it takes to become salespeople themselves.

Luis Soto

40w↑2

@Volkbrecht Worst part is that MLMs could work as an business alternative for people, if it werent designed to be fucking awful and scammy

K ORA

40w

Aaah this gave me the chills, I would be automatically so freaked out by it 😬

Jacob Jensen

40w↑231

Another reason MLM's get Latter-day Saints so often is because they pitch it to the young members who just returned from their missionary service as a job where they can use their missionary skills and make money. Working your way up MLM's is all about recruiting, and so the MLM will convince them that this recruiting is similar to what they did on their missionary service.

Kd Creer 456

40w↑26

I am a return missionary. It’s also because of a lot of stay at home mothers who have a lot more free time than they want to admit.

masterDecats

40w↑26

I mean, if they’ve already been suckered into scams once, why not again lmao.

Kartos

40w↑10

So it's jist like religion, lol

Wop wop

40w↑24

I mean, if you were already doing unpaid work for an organization worth billions of dollars (Mormon church), an MLM is not much of a step down

Sana St. Laurent

40w↑1

TIL. Makes sense!

11 More Replies...

Tom McMorrow

40w↑199

"Back when Vice was good"

This snark is why I keep tuning in. A+ shade right there.

Willy Sound

40w↑2

Yeah I caught that too, it occurs at 8:30 for anyone wondering

Rynnik Elddi

40w↑2

I was just playing the video in the background while working on other stuff, but quickly LOL'ed at that dig when he said it.

Ben Keller

39w↑9

A co-worker started getting into this multi level marketing scheme and tried pushing it upon everyone at every opportunity.
It totally changed him as a person. It seemed like he saw everyone as a potential sale.
He ended up losing quite a lot of friends due to his involvement in an obvious scam.

John Elliott

40w↑21

Growing up in Utah I thought Amway was a shipping company like FedEx/UPS because my dad was a contractor to deliver Amway products to the people actually selling the product. It only dawned on me after two decades that, when I told people my dad worked for Amway, people thought he sold Amway products.

playboymaxim

40w↑30

I am 56 years old. I have been around MLM's and pyramid schemes my entire life, from family and friends selling Avon to meeting with co workers at Mcdonald's after work. I never participated because, while they talked a lot, they never actually said anything about how you got paid, and the people pitching them didn't seem to be doing much better than I was lol

Volkbrecht

40w↑2

They tell you if show serious interest in joining. You get paid a percentage of the revenue your line creates, and once that revenue has been large and steady enough you actually get salaried. Although that is not that easy to achieve nowadays, since the companies have been around for a long time and most people are either customers already, or don't want to be.

Erin

40w↑3

When I did Mary Kay (many years ago, don't judge), they were fairly upfront about the pay: 50% commission on everything you sell for base level, taxes and shipping come out of your commission since you're independent. My recruiter then got 2% commission on each sale I made, and she was paying her way through college with her earnings. After that level, it changed based on your group size, etc., eventually to the point of a salary. What they don't tell you is that the products are often overpriced, not enough quality for the price, and people generally don't love it enough to make a good business from. Also, that with the older brands (like MK and Avon) everyone and their mother sold it at some point 😆

playboymaxim

40w↑1

@Erin Would never judge lol! These are life lessons, no shame in the game!

playboymaxim

40w↑2

@Volkbrecht That was one of the things that turned me off about them, nobody really explains when you're going to get paid. That, and the fact I knew I was a really crappy salesman and would never convince enough people to get me paid lol

Fred Webster

40w↑267

You can thank former Speaker of the House Gerald Ford for pushing legislation through Congress to make Amway legal and not a pyramid scheme...Yep that Ford

Shane M

40w↑38

To be clear, the one who as president pardoned Nixon? Yeah that tracks...

Danny D

40w

Speaker of the house?

Fred Webster

40w↑1

Yes Ford was Speaker of the U.S. house of representatives...

Andrew Cherpeski

40w↑1

@Fred Webster which years? His party never had the majority during his time as party leader.

5 More Replies...

MythicalLucario

39w↑7

I almost got sucked into one of these MLM schemes a decade back. Vector Marketing was their name and they sold Cutco products. I was 18, just graduated high school, moved to a new town, and didn't know any better. Got passed the interviews and was excited to land my first job...but I was sceptical. I wasn't sociable enough to go door to door as a salesman, and I certainly didn't have the money to afford any inventory. Needless to say, after the first day of orientation I never went back. Granted, we were still feeling the effects of the 2008 recession and I couldn't get a job anywhere, but it was better than forking out hundreds of dollars for a company I don't know. Enlisted in the military in 2016 with a rate that translates well to a civilian job. I'll be getting out in a few years, and every now and then I look back to where I started. I have no regrets with not going through with the MLM scheme. That, combined with spending years in a futile effort searching for a job, allows me to appreciate where I'm at now.

matthew halsan

38w↑7

While i feel horrible for everyone deceieved and destroyed by these scams, hearing lines like" your selling freedom" and them telling you to immediately dump your friends and family for not buying your stuff is so crazy and whack that i feel you have to be crazy to stay after hearing that.

China Arlene

36w

Exactly. Like damn, where's your loyalty?

zedoud12

40w↑144

MLMs would only be sustainable if the entire hierarchy cost less to pay than traditional marketing costs any company.

Unfortunately for them, marketing is more efficient than direct sales.

beyondEV

40w↑15

They work if you sell something really valuable, like life insurance + retirement products. There you do need the personal sales rep contact anyway, and people trust their friend more than any stranger salesperson. the problem is: this is a rather limited market. MLM with a good product will saturate it very rapidly. and when market saturation is approached there is next to no more money to be made (unless for the very top). if you sell cheap consumer products, you will never be able to sustain the hierarchy.

Michael Vick

40w↑1

@beyondEVPrimerica is the largest insurance MLM in America, and they only sell insurance and investment portfolios. I think luck and timing have a lot to do with it as well

Julian Benali

40w

I’m not sure this is true. There are MLM’s which have existed for almost a century, so at least some are sustainable.

zedoud12

40w↑3

@Julian Benali part of sustainability is the ability to coexist and not deplete the (economic) environment. Amazon warehouses are a good (bad?) example with their high turnover rate and rate and intensity of workplace injuries.

2 More Replies...

Phyrexian_Dude

40w↑11

I used to work in one, not as one of the seller but inside of the company in the warehouse and then archive. Just looking the sales bills it was insane the amount of money was burned on the trash that was sold there. Low end sales where at worst in the $50 USD and the absolute worst one i ever saw was a woman buying around $20k in products. But the seminars... oh boy, the seminars... that shit its brainwashing cultish nonsense and $250 for a ticket just to enter. The most senior guy i met there told me this on MLM "Dont waste your money on this kind of shit. The only real difference with this and a Pyramid Scheme is that, the government wont touch the MLM just because they pay their taxes and as long as they pay their cut, this wont ever end."

Beware the Lily of the Valley

40w↑14

REALLY happy you covered this! You did a really great job covering the beats of just how disgusting MLM's are. For those who would like to see and hear first hand just how bad these schemes are, I cannot recommend Hannah Alonzo's YouTube channel enough. She has a great playlist dedicated to reading the stories sent in regarding MLM's and she's always happy to accept new submissions. I think a lot of us have had some kind of experience with an MLM...sadly, I actually worked for one without realizing what it was and then was pitched one by my own cousin.

Hannah also has a series where she shows social media videos and posts from those in MLM's and debunks the lies and half-truths often told, so you get the first-hand stories and then as a sort of supplememt, you can see the videos and proof of their tactics. Her goal isn't to shame people, but to pick apart exactly why these posts and videos are harmful. She's a former teacher, an elementary school teacher, so breaking things down for even a child to understand is her forte, and she does an excellent job of it.

Also, if you enjoy cats, her cat Zeke makes himself the star of the show, so there's another reason to watch 😊

ARTHUR LESTER

39w↑255

I'm 54 and my wife and I are VERY worried about our future, gas and food prices rising daily. We have had our savings dwindle with the cost of living into the stratosphere, and we are finding it impossible to replace them. We can get by, but can't seem to get ahead. My condolences to anyone retiring in this crisis, 30 years nonstop just for a crooked system to take all you worked for.

Anika Parvati

39w

@Racheal hubert The crazy part is that those advisors are probably outperforming the market and raising good returns but some are charging fees over fees that drain your portfolio. Is this the case with yours too?

3 More Replies...

4spooky8u

40w↑19

I had a friend try to sign me up for one of these in Highschool. I went to one of their meetings and everything. I knew right away it was some sort of scam cult lol. I stopped talking to that friend shortly after too.
edit: It was Amway he was trying to get me to sign up for.

Aaren Jackson

40w↑6

Oh god. I went to an Amway meeting with a friend who wanted to join and me to join him, and we were both like, oh they’re for real for real crazy!

4spooky8u

40w↑2

@Aaren Jackson The thing that annoyed me the most was how almost all of the people that were there being recruited were newly arriving immigrants. Their own friends and family were taking advantage of them.

Kok Lead

40w↑35

It's so easy to stop people selling you MLM. Instead of being a tier down, since they are so confident of the brand tell them you will join only if they will switch tiers with you. See them run away

Volkbrecht

40w↑3

It's even easier than that. Just say no. They get that.

Spartan0430

40w

@Volkbrecht i want to live in your fantasy world

nexovec

40w↑6

I was offered amway by a person on the street a couple years back. I obviously refused, because I'm not stupid, but here are the mistakes I made along the way:
I didn't immediately try to search for pay disclosures.
I didn't take a careful look at the business structure of the company and didn't take a record of it. (For example for some financial modelling later)
I didn't take free samples of the products.

geneparmesan

40w↑8

They are far worse and I’m glad you said this. They live on for so long, the prey on the most vulnerable and the turn good people into robots.

Cindy Temple

34w

are we talking about mlm or medicare?

Zane Courtney

40w↑33

I was nearly part of the Amway MLM a few years back. Thankfully my mom knew what it was and rescued me from joining.

Frzned9x

40w↑5

I remembered getting recruited to MLM by an old senior I was a friends with. They sat us in a small room, i was actually very swayed by their product and their model. But then they spent 30 minutes talking about how MLM is not a pyramid scheme and it triggered all the redflag in me so i didnt.

Like i didnt know what the fuck pyramid scheme is but there aint no way they have to spend this long saying they are not it if they arent doing something illegal.

Volkbrecht

40w↑1

My mom joined. Tried to get me in, too, but I did not want to. She is still with them, although only as a customer. Never any problems with the company or her sponsor. In the end it's about how clueless people are. Of course MLMs are about selling product, not recruiting people. That is just their way of marketing.

AstraCrits

40w↑1

@Volkbrechtbruh you're all over this comment section trying pathetically to defend MLMs
just stop trying bro

Pancakegr8

40w

I go out of my way to try rescuing people since I know first hand how the damage caused by Amway is pivotal.

Dexter David

40w↑6

Great content. It's so sad that there are so many get rich quick schemes out there trying to sell you the idea of financial freedom, extra source of income, being your own boss, etc. If it was that easy to become rich quickly, everyone would be rich. Heck even career counseling can be misleading nowadays.
If someone is trying to sell you a dream, a better life, financial freedom, a course, a subscription, etc, it's 99% likely going to be no good for you. At the end of the day, the majority of them are not selfless. They do what they do to gain something out of it at the cost of your loss.

Weird guy

39w

Unfortunately a lot of people are fallen for it, you just need a Lamborghini in the background and they believe while they make bank on courses instead off the “real business”.

Atlas

40w↑19

I was recruited into Amway a couple years back by some lady who came through my job. I went along with it for about week or so, cause i was curious and figured it might actually lead to something. Then they explained everything to me and talked about the events they hold that cost its members like a hundred dollars or more i think. Never contacted them after that and just decided to keep on struggling my way

Volkbrecht

40w↑2

I have never been to any of those events. My mother has been, though. And from what she described, you get a decent show for the money. My mother is no dummie, though. She sees the whole thing for what it is, and has long ago abandoned any hope she may become successful in the business. She still enjoys attending these retreats every few years, though. For her, it's like a little vacation with some former coworkers (she's retired), and the motivational speakers are fairly good, she says.

The_Knowmad

40w↑19

I was in 2 MLM’s, Vemma and The Global Information Network. I received a settlement check for each one being a pyramid scheme.

LoveToBe

40w↑1

I remember a lady throwing a makeup party to try out products. Because of severe skin sensitivities I declined to actually participate and was just an observer, which I believe helped me see what was going on. I was shocked the lady seemed more focused on signing us up to sell rather than on actually getting us to purchase the products we tried. My mother was interested, but I changed her mind when I helped her realize she kust didn't have the time to sell products and throw parties just to get a discount.

Cryptaveli

40w↑70

Not sure what’s worse, the MLMs or the people who take up for them.

Jacob Jensen

40w↑30

Exploitation is far worse than naïveté.

Chris Jackson

40w↑4

@Jacob Jensen Depends who you ask. Being "naive" is often an excuse used by people who are engaging in greed. There often isn't much of a distinction between the two.

Irvin M

40w↑2

Why not both😂

Luis Soto

40w↑1

@Chris Jackson There is nothing greedy about trying to make a better life for yourself. Most people who fall into MLMs are people who have no education or fresh graduates, so their income opportunities are limited. Sure, there are SOME who are trying to abuse those people, those are the ones that make money off MLMs, but the ones that loose it are mostly naive or ignrant or both.

Dark Mattter

36w

@Luis Sotosome people can sense the bs but they still join hoping to make their cut from the suckers who'll come next.

Daniel Duckmeister

40w↑11

MLM= the business equivalent of a cult.

fryo

40w↑3

I was 18 when I started working in a supermarket, knew nothing about the economy or economics, and a colleague of mine talked to me about this "opportunity". Even with my ignorance, it wasn't hard to see through the BS. He really thought it was going to be lucrative, his wife even quit her nail salon job to sell those products full-time. I even went to one of their conventions to look around, you have have to be stupid to fall for it.

Deanna L. Newton

40w↑16

Yeah, you know that Multi-Level Marketing companies are bad when it even makes Pyramid Schemes look bad. At least with a Pyramid Scheme you can opt out of it after realizing that something shady is going on but with a Multi-Level Marketing company you'd have to jump through loops just to opt out of a payment plan or "employment" for them. I'm also aware that Multi-Level Marketing companies are predatory by nature as well as unsustainable compared to a single level marketing company. It's not to say that single level marketing companies aren't shady, it's just that with MLMs most if not all are shady and they are similar to cults. It doesn't really help that some cults are disguised as MLMs which is like a con artist who is secretly a serial killer, both of them are bad but one is worse than the other. Also he's not wrong about Multi-Level Marketing companies having pyramids inside pyramids and sometimes pyramids that are on top of those pyraminds that are inside of pyramids.

Volkbrecht

40w↑2

The thing is, for the MLM scheme to work as a scheme you need to be an idiot. Who in their right mind subscribes to a payment plan for shit they don't need? I have seen how Amway works, nothing technically wrong with that. You buy an initial package for a certain amount of money, you are even advised to buy products you like and want to use yourself, the idea being that you will do easier advertising shit you are convinced of. But that's it. Nobody forces you to buy more, or recruit anyone. You do this only if you want to. Also, the monetization scheme is absolutely transparent: you get paid a percentage of the revenue your line creates. If your idea of success is to repeatedly grab the 3% of the initial package your recruits need to buy, for how long do you realistically think you can keep this going before you run out of friends and relatives? Ultimately the focus needs to be on moving product, and if you can't see yourself achieving that, maybe you shouldn't waste time on trying. Just take the partner-discount and shop what you need without the need for inviting your sponsor over.

It's true that they employ certain brainwashing techniques. But, as I said, for those to work you need be stupid to start with. If this shit was as easy as they try to make it sound, they wouldn't come to you to try and sell it, people would be queuing up to join. Since they don't, well maybe it's not such an easy side hustle after all. Problem solved.

2 More Replies...

hydraulic hydra

39w↑2

One thing I have noticed is: if you make a financial decision in your own head, with all input for the decision being stuff you already knew, or information you asked for from friends, family, internet, even strangers, it is far more likely to be the correct one than a decision made when someone, even a family member, came to you to convince you to make it.
Whenever someone is trying to "sell you" on a product, they are attempting to get past your better judgement. They don't want you making comparisons between theirs and their competitors, and they certainly don't want you researching them online. My profession is not a "sales job" but management is pushing it anyway. Many of us (myself and coworkers) have ethical objections because, surprise surprise, you can get the same damn thing at Walmart for 1/3rd the price. But of course, the silver tongue and convincing the customer (who likely won't get out his phone and check during the conversation) that your product is "better" than the competitors can sometimes circumvent that.
Back to MLMs, it's the same thing. A person who decides on his own that he would like to start a business, upon actually finding out all that it entails will think twice. If he does go for it, he will be more likely to be actually prepared and have realistic expectations about how much money he's going to be making by what time. If he thinks the math of his prospective field isn't adding up, he won't go for it. But again, the silver tongued MLM salesman can get him to look past all that.

Clkb8

39w↑3

As a History buff and an Historian, I couldn’t subscribe fast enough as soon as I found out about your other channel

pescanubes

40w↑37

Great video, this culture isn't only affecting migrants, here in latin america there is an explosion of mlm stuff disguised as other things.

Hairo Aguilera

40w↑2

"Great video. This culture..."*

Weird guy

39w

Better to sell used iPhones or fast fashion imported from Europe 😂

Jamilah Razzaq

40w↑9

I'm so glad someone is calling out MLMs.

Viz

37w↑3

Everyone repeat after me…”I KNOW, WHAT I KNOW”. No one ever said creating a passive steam of income was going to be easy. Most people don’t actually put in the work it takes to create a passive income. If your in the get rich quick mindset and want money now? Hell, that’s what the corporate pyramid scheme called a job is for. 😉

Jordan Kendall

40w↑83

I didn't know that some even at the top of a MLM are also not necessarily doing well financially. I can confirm that MLM top members do accumulate large hoards of unused product. A friend of mine had a family member that was a high ranking member of Doterra. He passed away and the family had to figure out how to get rid of hundreds of boxes of Doterra product. He lived in Utah and I can also confirm that too many people in Utah fall for scams. Utah has a very high trust community. Also, this guy didn't pay taxes for many years and left his surviving wife which had no clue with the job of cleaning it up and paying all the penalties. And it is also worth noting that he thought COVID was a conspiracy and refused to observe social distancing, wear a mask, and take vaccines, which is why he died. He got COVID, did not take it serious, and essentially died due to lack of proper early preventative treatment. When he arrived at the hospital, it was too late. On his death bed he said he was stupid for not getting a vaccine and waiting until he had to be rushed to the hospital. This is probably because Doterra as a whole have tried to convince everyone that you can cure or fix anything with essential oils. His wife, who also was brainwashed by Doterra, but no more, now tells people to get vaccinated and listen to real medical research.

JazzHands

40w↑14

The clot shots and masks did absolutely nothing to stop the spread.

Wop wop

40w↑29

@JazzHands ^ another MLM member

Morbid Eel

40w↑1

You can just not pay taxes and there will be no consequences until you die?

9 More Replies...

T1ll3

40w↑4

had one friend that got caught up in an MLM and completely ruined his reputation with one friend group, its evil stuff

Al Liu

39w↑7

I’m so glad that anti-mlm is growing as a movement. We need to inform people, because MLMs make people lose an insane amount of money. You’re better off gambling at a slot machine.

Zak Nyberg

40w↑10

Volkbrecht

40w

It's not all that clear cut. MLMs actually do work for some. And try achieving a middle-class lifestyle as what is basically a self-employed salesman. It's not easy. Amway does sell products, some of them fairly decent. It's just that in a saturated market, it's difficult to aquire new customers, not to speak of recruiting an active line of new salespeople you can mentor. This is imo where the problems stem from. The MLM idea was successful for a reason. I think the mistake they made was to not switch to a more traditional distribution model once their growth potential via direct marketing was exhausted. Once internet shopping started, they were done anyway. But even before that they were basically just scraping the bottom of the barrel.

When the only way to make (more) money is predatory, people wil resort to that. That doesn't make the concept predatory.

antonSugar

40w↑5

I always thought Avon was legit cause they never asked my mom to join. They just ordered whatever she circled on the catalog, and she would get it in a few weeks.

WhiteShadow

40w

Same. Might look into them this weekend.

Lazaven

40w

Avon is legit they just are a more low-key MLM without the high pressure sales tactics and terrible reputation and lawsuits

OldWeeb

38w↑1

I was in Herbalife for six months back in 2004. Thankfully I got out only losing $400 and one sale to my aunt. Never looked at one since.

Gary The Milkman

36w↑3

The group of people I've seen hit the hardest by MLM's are military wives. A lot of them are very young, stuck at home with a baby and far from friends and families to talk them out of it.

Le Berserk

40w↑7

People are always ruined by greed. If the offer is too good to be true, most of the time it is.

mahmoud abboud

34w

my ex girlfriend is part of Juice+ MLM company and it was here entire life , she only talks about " The business" and how it is going to someday make her a millionaire ,finacialy free and not have to work a 9 to 5 job , she had those always grind mindset, I even went with her to an event and it was the weirdest thing ever, the funny part is that she broke up with me because she didn't want to be tied up in a serious realtionship right now because she is on a growing path , whatever that means and last week I found out she quit her part time job to do this "business" full time. But have to admit she was a pretty good talker . pretty cute and fit and had an active tik tok and insta, so of course people are going to buy her products.

Król pawi

40w↑20

And here i thought Avalon was just a legitimate fancy cosmetics company.

jay nycha

40w↑12

"Avon"

pushslice

40w

It’s just a fancier-than-average animated movie with weird looking ‘humans’

DaFact’s NoNonsense

40w↑25

Funny how they teach you how this all works as a "kid", when they get us to sell "popcorn" or "chocolate almonds" = at that age it should be pretty obvious when you get-in over your head with "too much" product/inventory, that you can't sell anymore OR you're smart enough to know "exactly" how much product you need because you know exactly who you're selling to

The Flying Spaget

40w↑4

They made us fill out pages of everyone we knew and estimate how much we could sell to them whenever they'd hand out the packets for these stupid fundraisers, in all of my school years I've only known one kid who ended up overstocked for one of these, he planned on selling a ton of candles to his hippie aunt but oops, his cousin had already done the same fundraiser a year prior and she was still burning through those candles. Still, he lost what, thirty bucks? There's a reason they switched to just making you fill out forms instead of expecting you to keep stock. I feel like MLMs would be less predatory with the same model, but then again they wouldn't make money.

DaFact’s NoNonsense

40w

@The Flying Spaget they'd do that if they were smart, but their "greed" overrides their common-sense

Frank Carr

40w↑6

I wish this info had been readily available 35 years ago. It would have saved me a lot of money.

Coolasstravis

40w↑2

I feel like what should decide whether or not the company is a pyramid scheme is whether or not it’s in the shape of a pyramid

Joshua Lee

40w↑14

Epic! I wrote an article 'Why MLMs are bad' - in fact, I rank #1 for that keyword on Google. Glad to see you used some of my points and even went beyond in this video. Remarkable! 🔥 I'd never thought that someone would actually be more successful in a pyramid scheme, but here we are.

P.s. Always Marco recently put out an epic video about Primerica that's gaining some huge traction.

CatsMeowPaw

40w↑2

I remember an excited new Amway member telling me in 2006 that Amway is the future of shopping. Well, 17 years later that still hasn't happened.

Pancakegr8

40w↑5

I have friends still in Amway and watching this video is tearing me up inside.

Marco Martinez

40w↑1

As someone who is in the Philippines, I can verify that 13:05 is true (especially the former); Tutok To Win Party-list won in the House of Representatives with Sam Verzosa ,an MLM co-founder of Frontrow, as their 1st representative.

I'm even ashamed not only because I joined his MLM by a friend, but I also indirectly financed his party-list's victory.

Mark Firman

40w↑5

Some of it is so reminiscent of cults. It's insane that such things are still legal.

Mike Zzyby

40w↑1

I went to a vector marketing training seminar after it was touted as a job opportunity... but you were getting paid a small commission on thousand dollar knife sets and you were encouraged to cold sell to friends and family

Coach Williams

40w↑3

I had heard that a lot of MLMs come out of Utah. Just thought that was an interesting coincidence if it's true. Now it sounds like a documentary needs to be made.

YourPalAL

40w

21 years ago, when I was 17 and still in high school, was the first time a "friend" pitched an MLM to me. I knew it was BS then and I still knew it when I was 25 and another coworker pitched it to me. Anyone who signs up for these is a fool and they deserve to get ripped off. Stop being a victim!

Joey D

40w↑4

The amount of people who want the human connection of an MLM is staggering.

Mike Staihr

40w↑7

I too have lumped MLM with Ponzi schemes. Love the way you made MLM much worse....LOL... There is a side note here....If Madoff hadn't screwed over rich, "influential", people he wouldn't have been "punished" as hard as he was...... MLM continue to strip the last crumbs from the "less wealthy" and suffer no consequences whatsoever...

Pyro_Might

40w↑5

I seen a lot of active duties and veterans get involved with this crap.

We tend to see a lot of BS amongst ourselves but yet fall for MLM.

Francisco D'anconia

40w↑8

It is so hilarious that you just released this video. I have been binge-watching "Always Marco" MLM vids out of nowhere

Chris Brown

40w↑1

Wow, i just realised Landmark Forum is an MLM device, just using "personal transformation" as the product. I genuinely never thought I'd been involved in an MLM until this video!

Tore Rønning

40w↑4

Lost a couple of thousand in the stock market today, a new video from you guys was what I needed.

mariokarter13

40w↑6

"Herbalife spent $810K on lobbying in 2021 alone."
If you know anything about lobbying, that's basically nothing.

OverEast34

40w↑4

College students are another group they love targeting because of financial struggles and naivety. Me and a couple guys in college got into a travel based MLM and lost thousands of dollars.

Mike Zzyby

40w↑1

College students are already familar with massive debt with faithless promises of return

OverEast34

40w↑1

@Mike Zzyby that’s figured out once the diploma is in hand lol

Hopelessdecoy

40w↑4

Fine of $200mil? So a bribe disguised as a fine?

Mr. Mo

38w↑1

The thing is, it's not about the logic behind it, mlms are kinda like cults in their programming, you may know someone you love in an mlm but with no idea how to convince them its a bad idea.

Edgars Simenovskis

40w↑13

I was in one MLM scheme. It was good in beginning - you buy when you want and need and product was good. Got a lot of members etc. But then they change - have to buy monthly or you loose your position in the scheme. It end up fast. People just left and all Business went in the dust.
Business went well when people had that freedom and no pressure, but collapse when they change to traditional MLM. 🤦‍♂️

SurED

40w

sounds like you just werent able to lead a group.

ubcroel

40w

@SurED ligma

Middle Age Bro Tips

40w↑2

If their product is so good (in terms of price and performance) they should be able to compete in the open market and win. CAPitalism, I know.

Manocyte Sotomi

40w↑2

My uncle got me into amway, I like their products but being a part of this kinda sucks, I’ve spend wayyyyyyyy more than I’ve made.

MrStumpson

39w↑1

You only need to see one of your friends start trying to sell MLM stuff, and they just become a pariah and destroy their own credibility. Everyone has an internal feeling that they should stay away

Pat123

40w↑4

"back when Vice was good"... I caught that lol and I loved it 👍 Vice went from awesome to insufferable at breakneck speed

hydraulic hydra

39w↑1

Reason 1: Their products: 2:17
Reason 2: People at the top did not make their money on the business: 5:50
Reason 3: They intentionally do much more than just financial damage: 10:20

D4rK3sTsH4d0W

40w↑11

A few of my friends are in to selling Scentsy products. I'm not sure how it's going for them now, but about half a year after the first one started, She said she wasn't doing it for the money, but by acting as a seller, she could get some free products and or a big discount on products or something like that. I'm pretty sure she's invested all the money she's made back into her own supply of it. I bought some from her and it's great, though a bit more expensive than candles, but basically no risk of starting a fire, so I like it

Nico D

40w

If Bill Hackman watches this, he probably wishes you worked for him in 2014. Your presentation does a much better job than his back then to show that HLF is a scam. Great content!

Weird guy

39w↑1

During the after the financial crisis their were very popular in my country especially the make-up ones like Avon and oriflame , I don’t think you need to pay to enter, you just need to buy a certain amount of products to resell if I remember correctly was 10 the minimum, I don’t how it works but Tupperware and Herbalife is very popular now but I never heard nobody reaching out on Facebook or setting up group meeting, generally is more in person and if they are higher in the rank they boost about the free car to other minimum women

Kaloyan Dichev

40w↑15

“Back when Vice was good” - love that one 😂

Jesse Miller

40w

I caught that too haha

A Panda

38w↑2

An MLM is a pyramid scheme with extra steps and a pyramid scheme is a ponzi scheme with extra steps

tabatha terry

40w↑6

I knew a Chinese family the dog was named Amway I thought it was a Chinese name my mom told what it was then I started noticing all the products around the house boxes and boxes everywhere

Chris

40w↑1

hahaha

Pete Reinert

40w↑2

I was a Pampered Chef (MLM) rep for about 3 months. I bought in for $300 (350?), got $800 ($850?) worth of product, ran a few Facebook sales and made more than my money back. Not much more, but a couple hundred bucks. Could I have made more by working at McDonalds? Yeah, maybe.I left when I realized that a "live" show would require me to bring nearly every product in the starter pack (3 giant boxes!) and do all the dishes afterward. Never recruited anybody. Good quality product, everybody loves it, no complaints.

FirstName[BunchANumbers]

40w↑17

Appreciate you addressing MLMs targeting Mormon women. an incredibly vulnerable group to be taken advantage of by these companies

Alex

40w↑2

you could say the same thing about mormonism in general(or any religion) Just another scam

Just Me

39w↑1

LDS is cult-like, so it's not surprising that they fall for cult-like MLMs.

Appalachia Brauchfrau

36w

@Just Me it's not just that, it's that the LDS has iffy feelings on women in the workforce so MLMs let moms feel like they're still contributing without engaging with the taboo of holding a real job.

1 More Replies...

Fionna's Gameplay

39w↑1

It may be hard to get a job, but it'll be a long day in hell before I even touch an MLM scheme

Professor_Vile

39w↑1

I had an early brush with Primerica shortly after graduating high school. I never gave them money or worked for them, but I did attend an information session with some friends. That taught me all the MLM red flags, so I could always recognize one after that.

earthsteward9 Guitar Pick Reviews

40w↑4

I was listening to the podcast Money Feels and they said MLM basically means Mothers Loose Money

Varniit Professional

40w↑3

Selling hope is good but not at expense of making them hopeless after that.

Armor Bearer

40w↑1

It sounds like MLMs have the potential to destroy relationships(10:29). Once people start losing money, friendships and community bonds will start to deteriorate.

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