Who are the Clovis People?

It depends which Clovis People you're ref… Read Full Bio ↴Who are the Clovis People?

It depends which Clovis People you're referring to.

One was a nomadic group of people who crossed the Bering Straight to be one of the first people to come to the North American continent. They hunted wooly mammoth with detachable spears and lived in what would become Clovis, New Mexico, from where they inherited their name.

The other is a four piece band: Dan, Peter, Jay and Eliav

Planets
The Clovis People Lyrics

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A.J. Take me away from this planet Right now I'm feeling so…
Adema Despite these imperfections Despite all I say Inside in rec…
Avenged Sevenfold Godless, meteoric war Anger, our existence nevermore You awo…
Avenged Sevenfold (USA) Godless, meteoric war Anger, our existence nevermore You…
Avenged Sevenfold - Hail to the King Godless, meteoric war Anger, our existence nevermore You awo…
Babel Fish Babel Fish - Planets Getting high on stardust, swirling in …
Bass Astral x Igo I always thought I′m on alone It's as bright as day Don′t…
Blippi Planet Song - Lyrics Verse 1 Mercury is the littlest plan…
Blue's Clues The Sun's a hot star, Mercury's hot, too. Venus is the brigh…

Chimeras Well I met a politician Shoot me blind Eliminatin' plans for…
Cosmic And Optimus Rhymes Can't wait to have my own throne But I'm still broke How…
DonEl Face to face, eye to eye We connect, vibes don't lie I…
E-mod There's been so many signs Some that I had to find Using…
Emily Haines & The Soft Skeleton Hours to spend, hours to burn Sleeping through the seasons O…
Everything Everything To the bigots in the batcave I think some of you…
Hi-5 Height is the one for me It gives me all I…
Jack Tyson Charles In a visual scripture We write our own destiny And…
Jimmy Cheo Like the sun, You give light to all of our…
Jonah Taylor You and me talking lots and parking lots and I′m…
Joseph Suit up my son, we're going past the moon We're going…
Kate Rusby I can see, The planets are aligning for me, But I cannot…
Kid Prexy I just want off of this planet That lil bitch she…
L. Einaudi There's been so many signs Some that I had to find Using…
Little Earthquake If they ask then, bring us all, i know there's…
Mount Eerie 7. PLANETS As long as I am drawing breath the world…
Mrs Greenbird I see you in silence Rotating in the distance You fade away…
Mrs. Greenbird 立ち止まったらそこで何か終わってしまうって走り続けたでも歩道橋の上きらめく星々は宇宙の大きさでそれを笑ってい…
Nicklas Sahl On a train out of town Driving over swinging bridges Rotten …
Pizzicato Five (Konishi/Tajima) Translators: Andrei Cunha yoru wa bokura …
S.p.i.t. I always flirt with death I could kill, but I don't…
Short Stack I'm reaching out I'm reaching out I'm reaching out to get…
Shortstack I'm reaching out I'm reaching out I'm reaching out to get…
STERiO & eleven.five (konishi/tajima) Translators: andrei cunha Yoru wa bokura …
STERiO vs eleven.five If your one true love was In a solar system not…
STERiO vs. eleven.five И снова нахожу лабораторию открыв глаза Я отправляю на твой …
Still Life Still Why are the planets all here So we can lie on…
Teenage Fanclub We're going over the country And into the highlands To loo…
The Fountain I've got everything I need Here on the Planet of Weed There'…
The Wolf Gang The lights are frozen, see them spinning 'round my head Plan…
Three Mile Pilot I was falling down coming through the clowds burning in th…
Three pandas and the moon City light 높이 떠있는 star 구름 위에서 loud errday, we'll sing…
Tiamat [Music: Edlund, Sahlgren]…
Wolf Gang The lights are frozen, see them spinning 'round my head. Pl…

Adema Despite these imperfections Despite all I say Inside in r…

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01Planets (Demo)

02Walking in a Free Fall

07Intro, Reptilia, WIAFF

08Wiaff

09Planets

The Clovis People

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Most interesting comments from YouTube:

LetTheTunesFlow

My issue has always been the absolute character assassination that goes on with anyone within archeology, and many other scientific fields, when someone suggests other possibilities, all the while scientists towing the establishment line are allowed to suggest, hypothesize, and make crazy guesses backed by even less evidence than their detractors…

I’m always weary of taking anyone’s word on a topic if their method of defending their personal opinion is a brutal character assassination of their intellectual opponents, and horrific personal insults to boot.

How can anyone be so blind as not to see the malicious way many scientists behave when challenged. Many scientists appear to be exceptionally scared of losing their status and reputation, so much so that they are willing to defame anyone taking an interest in a “forbidden” line of inquiry, or interest in a taboo topic.

I don’t care how stupid or inept some of these people researching these taboo areas of science are. No one in the public sphere is going to be willing to place any trust in scientists if they keep acting in such a reprehensible way… Also science may well miss out on some pretty surprising discoveries if they treat everyone investigating these topics taboo topics as a
Charlatan. Also restricting real scientists from investigating taboo areas of science only breeds more of a taboo, and an increase in sloppy research on the topic. None of this is good for science and does more harm than good. It’s much better to have these ideas put to the test fairly, and with rigor, that’s the way to truly build upon the knowledge of humanity! Plus people in positions of authority acting like high school bullies is detestable behaviour, and scientists partaking in that kind of behaviour should be the ones removed from any serious scientific credibility…

But maybe that’s just me.

PS I think most of the more fringe scientific ideas are just bonkers. I just think that the scientific method is equipped to weed these fringe ideas out over time, and it is best done by picking apart their ideas scientifically and rigorously, but not resorting to this malicious character assassination and banishment from the “respected scientist club” or should I say “juvenile malicious echo chamber”. Scientists are human and that’s fine, just please as a group, don’t allow fellow scientists get way with not being called out for this dehumanizing behaviour. I’m sorry to say scientists, but you are destroying your reputation among the average human by stifling debate in such an authoritarian, and vindictive manner… We all see it, and it saddens me to see the current doubt in science, caused in no small part by the scientific community itself…

Charles Mouse

Interesting...
...I was under the impression the understanding that humans were in the Americas a very long way prior to 11k BC was finally a done deal:
-The Solutrean hypothesis may carry no weight
but
-Some very old skeletons have been found in South America
-The Fuegian aborigines of South America existed in large numbers until very recently, some decedents still exist, they are definitely not (entirely) of Asian origin, and there's genetic evidence to suggest their closest relatives are Australian aborigines.
It would seem from said evidence the "first" known people in the Americas arrived in South America, possibly from Australia. Evidence for their migrating North of the isthmus of Panama is currently shaky but there seems to be no reason why not. It would then seem these "original" Americans were later displaced by much later groups from East Asia migrating over the Bearing land bridge leaving a remnant group at the very tip of South America.
Assuming further revelations don't change our understanding once more the interesting thing to ask is how peoples most closely related to Australian aborigines made it to South America as early as 30-35k ago...
...that's way before the Polynesians, who at least could have made it. One also needs to consider there is plenty of evidence Australian aborigines were far from the "savages" portrayed by the first European settlers...
...while genetic studies suggest the "Pacific" sweet potato diverged from the South American varieties as much as 100k ago, rather squashing the theory that it was brought from South America by people, one has to accept that if a potato can travel West across the Pacific then humans could travel East.

All comments from YouTube:

Michael Froelich

4y↑86

If humans can cross the Wallace line into Australia more than 50kya, regardless of if a land bridge existed or not, it shouldn't be shocking that humans can cross the Bering Strait with or without a land bridge.

OLD CHINESE MAN

We been here since Pangaea,

CBC News.

But why would they they could have found it accidently when fishing but that seems odd.

Israel Rodriguez

2y↑1

Thank you, I was just about to say that, the dream time is what the Australian aboriginals call it.

harold wilkes

@J Jamberson True.

J Jamberson

2y↑1

@harold wilkes without physical proof, it is all speculation.

24 More Replies...

RyRy2057

4y↑327

honestly there ought to be more effort into submarine archaeology, because the former coastline of western North America would have been wayyyyy more fertile and productive than the inland regions and it’s far more likely that humans crossed over via the ice-free coastline

RyRy2057

3y↑1

@For REAL too deep? what? the coasts weren't glaciated, since oceans tend to moderate temperatures. the kelp highway hypothesis is prettttty well supported tbh

For REAL

@RyRy2057 Have to disagree. Water would have been to deep there was no green land bridge they would have come across on Ice hunting for food. Likely taking the whole village with them since they didn't have enough where they were at and crossed on the ice bridge.

macarde10

@MTN17 claiming dogma and ignoring the majority of science just to push a false hood still will not make fairy tales come true. :)

MTN17

@macarde10 Just as in our politics the “conservative” archeologists throw a wrench into the progress.

traveler time

https://youtu.be/a3iEn99UyR8

11 More Replies...

Aeturnalis

4y↑145

Interestingly, when I was young, maybe 12 or 14, I had a book about Native American culture that claimed the earliest people in the Americas arrived on the continent about 30,000 years ago. I never questioned it until, as an adult, I read that humans reached the Americas 15,000 years ago, and now you're telling me that the erroneous book was accidentally true. That's awesome, have to love archeology :)

21LAZgoo

now there is evidence of people making bone knives to butcher mammoths and using controlled fires 37000 years ago in texas, hopefully it wont get covered up or immediately dismissed like the 250000 year old evidence of mammoth carvings/butchery in mexico

Petitio Principii

@ Williams It is an actual article: doi: 10.1126/science.aan8433. In general, we'd expect the highest similarity between west, central, and north Africans with Europeans, to whom they're more closely related than to San people, actually, one of the farthest branches from modern humankind. Even sub-branches of San people are quite distant from one another, more than groups we'd intuitively imagine to be more distant. But it can always be the case that some shared alleles are conserved in distantly related branches and evolve more significantly in intermediary branches.

Apparently it's really a case of conserved shared ancestral variation, though: << At rs6510760 and rsll2332856, the ancestral (G) and (T) alleles, respectively, associated with light pigmentation, are nearly fixed in Europeans and East Asians and are common in San as well as Ethiopian and Tanzanian populations with Afroasiatic ancestry (Fig. 1 and fig. S4). The derived rs6510760 (A) and rs112332856 (C) alleles (associated with dark pigmentation) are common in all sub-Saharan Africans except the San, as well as in South Asian and Australo-Melanesian populations (Fig. 1 and fig. S4). >>

Petitio Principii

@HOUROFPOW3R neither oral or written history are tremendously reliable, specially past such a long time.

Williams

@Petitio Principii Those genes are most likely associated with the San people. I tried cross referencing your citation. That's not an actual article, at least not something specific enough to be traced. Only Africans are native to the continent though

HOUROFPOW3R

@Petitio Principii written history would purport there was a giant flood and a man put two of every animal on a boat

your point?

52 More Replies...

Viktor Schwarz

4y↑62

I'm surprised you didn't mention Monte Verde in Chile. The site is estimated to be ~18.500 years old. And there were found rests of huts and scraps of clothes instead of just stones that may or may not have been carved by humans.

PlatinumAltaria

@Natalia Jimenez Or we could go with the overwhelming historical consensus that these aren't human sites.

Natalia Jimenez

Also the Monte Verde site has been painstakingly studied since the 1960s. There's no doubt that it is a pre-Clovis site. Also the human coprolites of Paisley Caves in Oregon are definitely pre-Clovis. DNA was even extracted from them. Either humans came down the Pacific Coast in kayak-type sealskin boats or followed herds of elk when a passage opened between Beringia and Canada

PlatinumAltaria

2y↑1

@Darrell Criswell That's only a fringe theory. There are several reasons to reject it, the strongest being that it is implausible to have found zero artifacts of a supposed continent-spanning 20K year history. Why was everything destroyed except a few flints in Chile? The claim is based on dating of material in association with stone tools, but there's no evidence to suggest that they're related. It's like finding a dead dog next to a ruined castle and deciding that both must be about 10 years old. Much more likely that something died in the cave before people showed up.

Darrell Criswell

@PlatinumAltaria What about MV1 Monte Verde?

Juan Bascuńan

I ts. True

17 More Replies...

CulturedScience

4y↑183

As always in science there will be people checking the results. That just shows that good science is happening.

Terence Iutzi

Yes and if it has any validity he will publish his source data to prove it! Unlike the alarmist that say that is their intellectual property!

Jesse Bianchi

@ernest roybal no. Science tends to be progressive and mutable by nature. It's the CONSERVATIVES who say don't investigate ESTABLISHED science. greeting from the future.

Char Covelesky

The "accepted" evidence is often riddled with lack of important information, bias, and pat, simplistic assumptions that amount to misinformation. For example, recent DNA evidence from members of the Surui, Karitiana and Xavante peoples of Brazil’s Amazonia region show they are directly related to aboriginal Australians, as well as other parts of Melanesia, and carry distinctive DNA sequences that identify them all as the descendants the Denisovans. So yeah, Clovis first is a big crock of... biased opinion, not fact, no matter how "accepted" it's been, because the story is far from complete!

ernest roybal

Not anymore...you can't question the science....say progressives and The Church of Fouche.

ken huang

3y↑1

To be realistic , just imagine some 26 - 30000 y a, humans without much help from science and technology and decided to walk over the Bering Straits to North America ! Their Greatest Enemy Was the Severe Climates or the Weather ! They were up against the Last Glacial Maximum ! The British scientists had the Lowest Temperature set at minus 70 to 80 C plus Wind ! The LGM was around 22 - 25000 ya. . SOLID ICE Was covering N America all the way down to mid USA or more ! According to Dr John R Johnson from the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History and Dr Alice Roberts MD and Archeologist, DNAs fr Native American jawbones revealed that they had set foot on S.Alaska Coast All The Way Down to the Tip of S. America some 17000 ya !(give or take 5 or 10 %！) It took them about 2000 years .

Dating based on sediment levels tends to overestimate as the West Coasts of America were liable to Multiple Earthquakes and Volcanism over say 30000 years !!

15 More Replies...

Sheena Warecki

4y↑14

I'm an anthro student and part of anthro is having to take archeology and it was brought up multiple times that at this point we know clovis weren't the first people because of a lot of evidence but mainly the people fighting it and holding back more studie/digs etc where people who INSISTED it was Clovis first because that's what they where taught which is really really dumb😒

Christian Easter

2y↑6

For me it always seemed the 13500 years was too short a time to basically colonize all of north and south America by about 12000 years ago. Especially since people had boats by 40000 or more years ago to reach Australia. They could have followed the edge of the ice sheet and reached North America from either Europe or Asia.

#1 Tako

4y↑133

This lines up with my disbelief that the ancestors of native Americans could have spread from Alaska to Patagonia in the span of 300-500 years. Many smaller migrations over thousands of years makes far more sense, especially if the early migrators were wiped out by other more modern tribes as the glacial ice retreated and allowed far larger populations to migrate into the Americas. So many questions that hopefully get resolved as we make more archaeological discoveries.

Danny Brown

@macarde10 what? Archeologists don't make money..shoot I've waisted my whole educational career . And what about publish or perish

David Canatella

2y↑1

During ww2 a Japanese American in California was put on a ship and dropped in South America. He walked back . It took him a year.

Father Fred

4y↑4

@Ole Fella You got that right in saying, the invaders Colonizers, are 'Living in Denial' which is same as 'Living in Sin'.
Thanks for web site, http://blog.chinadaily.com.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=820652

Ole Fella

4y↑5

@Michael Broome Truth hurts, isn't it? The true of the matter is that indigenous Native Americans would forever be the subject of scapegoat, and victimized by the Colonizers of their lands, as long as they occupy those rich bountiful lands in order to justify their occupation.
In other word, the invaders Colonizers, are 'Living in Denial' which is same as 'Living in Sin'. That is what is all about, and the rest is the history. http://blog.chinadaily.com.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=820652

Thy Kingdom Come

4y↑8

@Ms. Gregoria 'Anglos caused most of the world's problems' ~ David Cameron.
Anglo caused centuries-long notorious global -
Slavery,
Colonialism,
Colonization,
World War I,
World War II.
True, among the five main Anglo nations; Britain, USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, all but Britain is looted from others. http://blog.chinadaily.com.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=820652

22 More Replies...

John Eyon

3y↑11

a year after this video was posted - news of a clovis barrier buster has come out - human footprints (a much better proxy for human remains than arrowheads) - found in White Sands National Park in New Mexico - have been firmly dated to 21 to 23,000 cal yrs BP - right in the middle of the ice age - seeds found below and above the footprint level have been radiocarbon dated

Dannan Tavona

3y↑12

This should be revisited in view of the recent discovery of fossilized human footprints found at White Sands National Park, dating from between 21,000 to 23,000 years ago.

Ryan Alexander Bloom

4y↑85

“10-15 thousand years earlier than *some *stubborn archeologists previously thought.” There’s been mounting evidence for a longer than commonly cited North American habitation for decades. That said after reading up on the debates surrounding stone tools, it appears that most so-called experts have no idea what is a really primitive stone tool and what is just a rock.... but there have been many lines of evidence from many sites supporting an earlier ingress and they mostly get ignored, not disputed for valid logical concerns.

Jay Silverheals

Anyway Its not that I have an opinion on it but I will do an upload in a couple hours

Jay Silverheals

I challenge you this on this day. Show me one item in north or south america that is PRIMATIVE the reference for primitive is tools such as when apes started to stand upright and use basic tools such as in africa. DOES NOT EXIST-------------------NOT A SINGLE ONE

Jay Silverheals

I suggest that you consider that a few thousand years lets say 50,000 that they were as intelligent as us if not more so so the concept of "really primitive stones" is debunked. Those that came down were not "apes" trying to stand upright while grunting or how to use fire. You better go back a million years for that. The chikita banana cave they DID find modern tools on the surface and YES people had been in there. so they then go berzerk and dig down and now EVERYTHING becomes an artifact. it occurs to this day. a classic case is the "early man site" near me and barstow california where Leakys wife DIVORCED HIM because he went in wanting to keep his fame going to a flood down site where about every possible rock he called it a tool. She knew he was nuts. How can 90,000 tons of rocks be tools but no other evidence and NOT ONE true tool just a bunch of rocks where he thought "MUST BE VERY PRIMITIVE APES" any modern hiker knows such as to go to a place of flint and chert all over every single rock MUST BE A CORE. a clovis and other true points are found in the area east of Ludlow near Pashghut volcano. at specific spots where I have been. But then people drive in miles away to the flint fields no arrowhead and not wanting to hike -----------------------------------everything then becomes "a core". or "must have been a ape hand ax or scraper" the stone showed at the start of the video is a huge joke and HAS NO WEAR from use.

MR.Chickennuget 360

@Darrin La Pointe no. 130,000 nope.

Josh Feierman

3y↑1

@Darrin La Pointe but those were not alleged to have been related to modern humans, but were supposedly non-human hominids.

9 More Replies...

iwantudead34

4y↑76

This information has been known for years but the mainstream archeology community is obsessed with the Clovis theory

DJBrandywine Gaming

@Anthony Ngu they found human bones of the Clovis people and Solutrean people America and actually they're considered to be the oldest skeletal remains they found in America.

DJBrandywine Gaming

The Clovis people is not a theory it's a fact along with the Solutrean people they both in fact did come to America and in fact it was over 33,000 years ago and they came from France and Spain they were white Europeans and they were cave people and most people don't want to acknowledge this because they don't want to make it seem like Native Americans did anything wrong either just like modern Europeans as they claimed it which is conquering the land and then killing off all the people and spreading disease and everything that's what happened to all the Clovis people and the Solutrean people after being here for so long and then my people Native Americans as we call us for some reason even though all people born in America are actually technically Native Americans and my people are actually called eurasian people but anyways my people slaughtered and killed the previous people and spread disease to them just like Europeans from the modern times did people like to deny all this about the first people because they are being brainwashed by people spreading false information and trying to make it out that only white people are bad and they've only done bad things like conquering lands and stuff but everybody's done that since the beginning of mankind.

LetTheTunesFlow

Matt S

@Torian Holt exciting pseudoscience is still false pseudoscience. https://www.britannica.com/place/Pedra-Furada#:~:text=Pedra%20Furada%2C%20Controversial%20archaeological%20site,human%20settlement%20of%20the%20Americas.

RainbowSkin

4y↑2

@João Weimar south America's diversity is attributable due to its immense cultural intermingling as well as Spanish and Portuguese colonialism. Genetic evidence doesn't give credence to humans being on the continent for more than 20k years.

6 More Replies...

PG5768

3y↑6

One of my professors at San Diego State during the 1980s, Dr. Richard Dill, worked for a company that became Nekton mapping the submarine geology along the West Coast to a depth of about 120 feet after WWII. This was for the oil industry. He told our class that they found what appeared to be a fire pit on a shelf at about 40 feet deep near La Jolla during their early work.

Christel Headington

4y↑86

I feel like 2020 has lasted 30,000 years so far, does that count ?

Grace American

Try 2021! DAMN.

Shady Pines Ma

4y↑2

Each day seems to last about 48 hours, and if not then a week is lasting about 10 days 😕

necessaryevil455

4y↑3

I'm with you. Currently without more evidence it's more likely you're observations are better than what's been given so far.

ElZamo92

4y↑120

You get my thumbs up just because of that Engineering Explained shirt.

@Jasper No, I haven't. I live in a state that voted for Trump.

Jasper

@KEEP CALM and PLAY SOCCER IN YOUR PAJAMAS ...have you ever met a scientist?

KEEP CALM and PLAY SOCCER IN YOUR PAJAMAS

No, scientists are too serious to use puns.

kinghal123

Nope, sorry, I only saw a TYPO!

EXOPLANET

4y↑1

https://youtu.be/CHh4vOkJ38k

1 More Replies...

LOVE OF PLANTS 🌻

4y↑13

I’ve always thought it’s possible that humans were in the Americas as far back as 40,000 years.

Tupallo

2y↑2

@PlatinumAltaria Papuans were also the first settlers of islands to the west of New Guinea in Eastern Indonesia such as the Moluccas and Timor.

Father Fred

4y↑5

@NewYorker Joe In California where I live alone had an estimated half a million (500,000) indigenous Native people inhabited there before Spanish arrived. Less than 5 % were hunter gatherers. Overwhelming majority settled down and along Oceans, rivers and lakes, and grew agricultural stuff and fish for food. After Spanish and Anglo conquest, after placing them in Rancheria and Reservation, only 20,000 survived. http://blog.chinadaily.com.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=820652

Ole Fella

4y↑3

@NewYorker Joe It IS a sad truth. Like I said, think about this scenario; if Native Americans cross the Atlantic ocean, invade and Colonize Europe, and slaughter most Europeans, and put the remaining populations in tiny reservations, for 500 long years. How would Europeans feel about it? Think about it.
More at, http://blog.chinadaily.com.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=820652

NewYorker Joe

4y↑4

@Father Fred My jaw dropped to learn, 'mega genocide of indigenous Native Americans, and their population in Continents of America 500 yrs ago was around 15 millions, while European population in Europe was around 20 millions.
Today, Native Americans population at 15 million, while European population, in Continents of America + Europe, at a staggering 'ONE BILLION'!
It is a sad truth.

Father Fred

4y↑4

@Ole Fella Like I read it earlier, mega genocide of indigenous Native Americans, and their population in Continents of America 500 yrs ago was around 15 millions, while European population in Europe was around 20 millions.
Today, Native Americans population at 15 million, while European population, in Continents of America + Europe, at a staggering 'ONE BILLION'!
Amazing fact that Indigenous Natives had built such great civilizations as Mayan, Inca and Aztec without outside help, and all from the scratch, and all on their own, since they had been cut off from the rest of the world for ten of thousand of years. In other words, they actually are great and proud people. Imagine what would it be like today if Native Americans had possessed some sort of nuclear weapons to defend themselves, and their beloved motherlands from invaders Colonizers? The answer is they would still have their own beloved motherlands, plus their population comparable to that of European population. I've no doubt about that.
I agree, about time to decolonize the Colonized lands, and return to rightful owners Native American people. By the way, http://blog.chinadaily.com.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=820652 is quite informative. Thanks man.

9 More Replies...

jimjimsauce

4y↑5

some other disputed finds such as topper (estimated 50,000 y/a in south carolina) and cerutti (estimated 120,000 y/a in california) also make for some interesting topics. cerutti had more intriguing evidence but people are so hard headed!

Nicole Slaw

4y↑1

Wow! This is an amazing finding. Thanks for the episode!

Raven

4y↑3

It'll likely take human remains being discovered in the Americas that we can date back that far to confirm this rather speculative notion.

Lawless Calculator

4y↑100

I found some little points like these and people told me I was dumb and nobody made points before Clovis points. I felt real stupid. Now I feel a little less stupid.

MR.Chickennuget 360

@A Jolly Nurgle Prick Its difficult any place that is lower than Sea Level- including China, Australia, Europe, Africa...

Barrett

4y↑1

One has to be conservative in speculating about the ancient past; don't believe people who are convinced.

Lawless Calculator

4y↑1

@InvictusByzantium thanks that's kind of you to say. Their tone was...I don't know. But thanks.

InvictusByzantium

4y↑2

@Lawless Calculator Either way though, regardless of what they really are "You're wrong, go away" is an awful answer to give someone, especially when they're just excited about a find. Really sorry that's the response you got.

Lawless Calculator

6 More Replies...

Archie Redman

4y↑3

I always think it's funny when humans think that 30 thousand years is such
a long time ago.

Robert Allen

..it kind of is, at least in terms of North American history because that time frame was when much of the western European cave art was being created and the Neanderthals were dying out...imho

crazycatlady39

4y↑1

As a 90's kid roughly 30,000 years is what I was taught. That it's supposed to be 13,000 years or newer is news to me.

MTN17

I’ve been seeing evidence for this being discovered for a couple decades. But the human oppositional defiance disorder still causes us to say humans “May” have lived in the Americas 25k years ago. Personally I believe Cro-Magnon used watercraft and had spread throughout the globe, mostly along coastlines which are now submerged.

theJimTanker

4y↑6

During the height of the last ice age the sea level was MUCH lower and proto-Polynesian people probably island hopped across the ocean that long ago.

Keith Tinkler

It may have exposed other islands, and enlarged existing ones, but overall it would not otherwise reduce the 'hopping' distance. Maximum sea level lowering would be about 400 feet +/-; it would also enhance intervisibility, and optical illusions from atmospheric effects can project distant land/islands into images in the sky. This can happen west of Iceland, revealing Greenland that is in fact below the horizon. It may have helped the Norse explore westwards to the Americas.

dougb

Living in the Pacific Northwest, I thought it was known that people have lived here with evidence going back over 14000 years at least. For instance, the Heiltsuk: https://www.martlet.ca/archaeologists-and-heiltsuk-community-brace-for-next-public-release/ Also it is worth noting that these people are related to people today who live in those areas and are part of the research teams, and I think reporting about it should really reflect that. These are not ancient peoples that are gone. These are current inhabitants in an ongoing struggle to prove their history and control their own lands and image and conversation in the face of Eurocentric erasure. It just seems like an important distinction to me.

killi mimes

4y↑53

Well no duh! A lot of scientists have been saying there were Pre clovis civilizations!

Uncanny Valley

@Komisar 39 thanks, had seen the name but hadn't done an actual search, cheers for the tip

Komisar 39

2y↑1

@Uncanny Valley Do a search for Solutrean People in the America's, I'm betting you find a trove of sources that will keep you interested for a good while. Have fun and happy hunting.

Uncanny Valley

@Perry Wall got a source? Genuine inquiry

Perry Wall

3y↑1

No Cloves points have been found in Siberia but that is where the natives supposed to have come from. They have found Clovis looking points in Spain and France.

Michael Broome

4y↑8

The word is speculating... Not saying.

There are good reasons to believe. That's not the same as proof.

Robert Ross

4y↑2

1:45 I’ve found stone tools extremely similar to the one on the left in Morocco. The semicircular pattern on its edge looks like it could have been used to scrape the meat off bone.

Greg Sutton

a scraped bone beside it would have made this story interesting. Instead of kind of pathetic.

Robert Gotschall

I think that the importance of the western sea route has been generally underestimated but I do like that pre-Clovis is, at last, being seriously considered.

Albert Howard

It puzzles me that there are indications from the age of things that they may have migrated to North America thru south America. Same applies in Australia but it's never considered. We have petroglyphs in Tasmania dated at 50,000 years. And they say modern humans got to the north 40,000 years ago. It sounds strange to me.

conifergreen2

Not surprising. I just watched a documentary about how ancient Egyptians travelled across the atlantic. The evidence with the megalithic structures all over the world that have the same design is amazing.

Ellial

I remember a documentary some 15-20 years ago about a archaeologist in America talking about the pre 15,000 year old evidence for humans she had found. She was told that continuing to dig past 15,000 year sediments was pointless because there was nothing to find. When she did and kept finding signs of human settlements she couldn’t find anyone willing to publish her results and when she kept pushing the idea she was essentially blacklisted and it destroyed her career in North America.

TF Sheahan

2y↑1

If a culture(s) explored and settled the coastal Americas when the sea level was hundreds of feet lower, then their settlements were near that level, and now under water, or otherwise not studyable by our current interglacial age archeology. Scuba technology may not be up to the task, either.

Ph4ntom747

4y↑3

Dang, atleast your spreading the word. I already had a good hunch about this, kind of weird how this is finally coming out.

áine

4y↑17

I follow a lot of Native people and leaders on Twitter, and apparently, this new evidence is in line with certain traditional knowledge! It's always cool when oral tradition passed down over thousands of years turns out to have been factually correct all along.

OLD CHINESE MAN

@MR.Chickennuget 360 go further back you dunce. The Bible plagiarized the Sumerian Tablets and epic of Gilgamesh.

audrianna munroe

It's more like two separate systems coincidentally matching up. There were well used mountains and caves that were old when cultures began to take shape and they needed an explanation. An indigenous trope in our oral history is that we wandered from another world to our new home and that was the mythic "birth of our people". My elders took it as our early predecessors had an inkling of how their cultures were built and just back dated those with whatever measurements of time they used. Personally it seems like convenient accidental kernal of truth.

MR.Chickennuget 360

2y↑1

Its Called BS. ITs the same as when some "biblical creationist" are proven right. In other words they weren't.

Char Covelesky

4y↑2

InvictusByzantium

Personally I think the evidence I've seen around this is cloudy at best. We haven't found any sites of similar age painting a picture of progression like we have with the current, prevalent model. The biggest defense against this is that all the other sites were coastal and they're underwater now, but the cave in mexico is 120 miles from the ocean. They what, followed the coast all the way to central america, and suddenly turned inland at set up about 5 miles from the most inland area of that section of the Americas? If we find more evidence of an actual route that would be far more substantial.

Keith Foster

I think we can all agree that river cobbles of crypto crystalline quartz can break itself into stone tools and travel uphill into a limestone cave. We can also all agree that Clovis type biface projectile points with distinct percussion techniques was the technique used in ancient Siberia, even though not found there, but rather in Western Europe.

Christopher Bruce

Good video but very bizarre to not have any references to the oral traditions of the first people here, and how we have consistently been finding their stories correct and our facts wrong.

PalomarKnotsandTaterTots

Artifacts found deep within said sediment layer does not necessarily prove they're that old. They could have been buried for some reason somehow. Definitely believe people were here prior to 13k years. Also unless there were organic material to date other than the sediment we shouldn't assume the artifacts are that old but if so then its a fantastic discovery.

Joseph Davies

That you for making the point that while many right ideas were once considered wild, not all ideas considered wild are also right!

Thecrippled Pancake

4y↑1

I knew it!!!!
I always thought the first people here came 35,000 years ago. I bet a new study will push it back up to that.

Spiral Python

4y↑1

This research fits more closely with the knowledge of other First Nations peoples spreading across the rest of the globe. First Nations peoples and nations were already established in Australia 40,000 years ago. It makes sense that the Americas were settled before the Clovis peoples, especially given that it was much easier to travel into the Americas from elsewhere than it was to migrate to Australia.

JNCressey

4y↑1

African humans were 300k years ago.
It's definitely Africans that spread across the world, not Americans.

the commenter

New discoveries from the unwritten history are always welcome! BTW, is that an Engineering Explained shirt? xD

David Rook

Definitely a great presentation and it does leave you wondering.

eric

This is not a new idea. 20 years ago, I was taught in my Western Civ class that there were likely two major migrations across Beringia. One around 28,000 years ago and another around 8,000 years ago.

Day Dreamer

2y↑2

If people came across from Asia ~30K years ago, many would settle along the coast. Since the ocean levels were lower, then these settlements would be submerged. Is anyone looking there?

Nicolas Peterson

Another YouTube covering this said that the sharp stones were the same style as those of humans 10-15,000 years later. It doesn’t sound like that’s the case since you said they’re completely different from other stone tools we’ve seen.

Will Driskill

4y↑2

I just watched a similar video about how rats came to islands and other continents sounds like we're not two different.

Bro Jaxs

The tools could of easily been some other animal with the ability to make tools as well.

Benson

4y↑24

There's been talk of people coming to South America across the Pacific ocean for years, also.

culwin

WTF does talk mean

Alex V

4y↑1

Perhaps, but the first people to that part of the South Pacific only arrived about 1000 years ago. If any contact happened between Pacific islanders and the Native South Americans it would have been the Rapa Nui of Easter Island, who arrived somewhere between 300 and 1200 CE, depending on the line of evidence, and though contact is plausible and there is some genetic evidence, there's nothing certain.

Benson

4y↑2

@alisoncircus No, this was inline with the 20 to 30 thousand year mark. Fell within the island hopping along the Pacific. Regardless, it's also just as controversial.

alisoncircus

4y↑2

Yes, but that's from a much more recent era. Boatmaking is required, rather than foot travel. Polynesians are the primary "suspects", they're only about 5-10,000 years "old".

cerverg

Does it really matter if it's 15 or 30 thousand years? I think the more important question is where they came from because, for example, the so-called "Clovis" culture does not match anything in Asia but matches pretty well with western Europe's Solutrean culture

macarde10

The lithic technology and its production matches solutrean, but not its appearance. Nor are there any apparent signs of genetic admixture from early Europeans in the Americas.

Matt Rossberg

Flint knapping and other ancient ways of shaping stone for tool use is very advanced for where humans were in our evolution, it's more than believe able earlier humans were literally just finding roughly sharp stones and using them. There does need to be a little more evidence to prove the stones weren't from nearby rocks that had migrated in over time

Matt Rossberg

But if you could determine how old the cave was, it may have changed in that time to be a more liveable environment for early humans

Brian Fox

I could have sworn when I was a kid I read that there was evidence of humans in Mexico going back 50000 years ago from foot prints in volcanic ash. Was the date reassessed or I'm I just remembering things wrong and getting it confused with the foot prints found in Africa?

CrappyCar

4y↑1

Great video, and digging the Engineering Explained shirt.

Scott Owens

We're having a very hard time in North America due to the rapid deglaciation and sheet flood's.
Anything low would have been reworked at minimum, completely redistributed to the oceans at maximum.
To find a undisturbed site from that time isn't likely to happen unless you're looking 400 feet underwater on the coasts, it's all gone and washed away. I'd think coastal underwater cave's would be the best, super hard to do, even find!

David Owle

Finally. My undergrad was a hodgepodge of First Nations literature and Post-colonial history/sociology. I would go from one class, where we discussed oral narratives that described a history of presence that long predated Beringia land migration, only to be told I was an idiot or heretic in the next class. Though, that class had us read heretical papers describing the rare possibility of submerged archaeological sites that might prove maritime migration much earlier than 15,000 years. 🤷‍♂️

David Owle

circa 1998... and I'm pretty sure one paper I read said 45,000 years. That one really got under professor Clovis' skin.

Jeffinetly JefFBi

I find alot of artifacts in area I live. I mean petrified bone made into arrow heads ( like a rib bone shattered with cuts,) I think 40,000 + I made this estimate WAY before this. How long does it take for bone to turn stone

Bubba Smith

Bones have been found in the La Brea tar pits with marks on them and have been dated to about 100,000 years ago. The marks are most likely from humans

Charles Mouse

lemmingscanfly5

Are you saying all the natives in America from Alaska and the Yukon, to Argentina, didn’t come from the same Siberian mountain people?
Imagine my shock.

TagusMan

4y↑1

A few years ago, I visited the Serra da Capivara site in Piaui, Brazil, and they claim that people have inhabited the area for at least 50k years, and may have arrived as long ago as 100,000 years. And they may have come from Africa. Serra da Capivara doesn't get enough attention. We humans have been traveling around this planet a lot longer than the boffins would have us believe.

TagusMan

@PlatinumAltaria Perhaps. 100,000 years does sound a bit crazy. I know I was shocked by that number. Perhaps that's why you can't find it written anywhere. But that's what the guides said to me, and perhaps that's the reason why the site is ignored by mainstream archaeologists.

PlatinumAltaria

@TagusMan I'm asking because the oldest claimed dates from the area I can find are closer to 20,000 years.

TagusMan

@PlatinumAltaria I'm just reporting what I saw and heard from my visit to Serra da Capivara, which is also a UNESCO World Heritage Site. How those people arrived at the site is unknown. If they came from Africa, then obviously they came by sea. If sea levels were lower, they could have island hopped across the Atlantic, just like the Polynesians did across the Pacific, which of course, is a much bigger ocean.

PlatinumAltaria

There is no way that humans arrived in Brazil 100k years ago. Humans had only just left Africa at that point, and there was no land bridge for another 30k years.

TheWeeaboo

Seems to me we should be asking ourselves how long humans have been living in Kamachatka and Chukotka. If Humans have been leaving remains over there for 30 000 years or more then it only seems logical they have crossed into North America for longer as well doesn't it?

Ledfndr

4y↑2

Stefan, I didn't know you were a car guy! I dig the Engineering Explained shirt.

xxXxII24IIxXxx

Is it possible that these artifact could be from a cousin species to Modern Humans that made the same journey across the Bering Land Bridge before our ancestors did?

Najwa Laylah

Denisovans? What?

Logan Shine

4y↑2

Soon we'll be adding another 10k-15k years to this timeline. It's best to keep an open mind.

darrin webber

Nice to be validated. Even if it has taken over 45 years.

Jose Martinez

I could have told you that! I've been saying this for years! As time goes on they will find evidence that my people have been here from between 40 to 45 thousand years ago. They need to look for other things besides stone tools.

ask and you shall receive

In 2017 tools were found and remains that date back 130000 years, so there is no excuse for this video being wrong

Peter Sedesse

There have been 40 years of professors who made their entire career with ' Clovis First'. Imagine being a 70 year old prof, having published hundreds of papers on Clovis First? There is no way they can agree with the new information.

Najwa Laylah

There is a way, but it's hard .

Megan Mae

4y↑1

You should tell us about these "wild ideas that didnt pan out"

StephBer1

4y↑1

Aboriginals made it to Australia roughly 50 000 years ago, maybe upto 60 000 years, so there is no reason why Native Americans didn't make it there in the similar time frame.
There is also a theory that parts of South America were established by Australian Aboriginals. They eventually moved to the very southern tip of SA once other tribes encroached and some isolated groups still live there. DNA testing and feature analysis shows a close match. People think that Aboriginals are not sea-faring but they were, especially some tribes. I find it all fascinating.

David Peloquin

I can't see it. It's one thing to cross over from Indonesia to the Top End when sea levels were a lot lower, quite another to cross the Pacific. Besides, if that were true you'd expect evidence of Australian Aboriginal-derived populations in New Zealand and across the whole string of South Pacific islands even the Polynesians didn't settle until a couple of thousand years ago at most.

Kyle Glenn

4y↑7

Wait, there is no consensus in science? My shocked face 😮

Linnymae Mullins

😂😂😂😉

ricardo Guimaraes

In central Brasil there is a site near Santa Elina where archeologists found in 2017 some stone tools and charcoal from what was suposed to be a fire pit, which were dated as being 27000 years. The stone tools had indententions as if they were used as a small saw. I don't know about the reliability of their data, but they do not differ from those presented here. There is another fire pit on Pedra Furada-Piaui (northeastern Brasil) which was dated as being 35 thousand years, but I know that their evidence is weaker.

steveb0503

Unless that earlier population entirely died off, there SHOULD be evidence in the genome of SOME native South, Middle, and even (possibly) North Americans - as they and the "Clovis people" would undoubtedly be from different subsets of Asiatic lineage.

aabbccddeeffgg1234

4y↑1

I don't think you did a thorough enough job presenting the evidence against the claim that the tools represent human habitation 30 kya. It feels like the anti-climate change debate, where you present it as if both sides are equally likely. For example, the tools in the cave were indistinguishable from each other regardless of whether they were 30 kya or 20 kya. This implies that there was no tool innovation or change in that time period, which is unheard of for humans. That's just not how we are. We don't maintain the exact same tool culture for 10,000 years. The other thing you don't mention is that the age of the layer of dirt that a tool is found in doesn't automatically tell you how old the tool is. It's not uncommon for disturbances in the soil to allow rocks or tools to get mixed into older soil layers, and when an archaeologist makes a find, they have to have sufficient evidence that that didn't happen. Evidence that the tools weren't mixed into lower layers can include finding tools from multiple sites from the same age and of the same form, as well as finding fewer tools of the same kind in other layers. If you find the same tool pattern from multiple layers spanning thousands of years, it's possible the outlying layers represent mixing rather than a legitimate date for the tool. The authors fail to provide this evidence.

It's a radical result and as you said, "big if true" but most critics argue that there is a huge burden of evidence that the authors haven't met. There are explanations for their evidence that are as if not more plausible than the 30 kya explanation they present.

It's also a bit upsetting that you presented the Clovis culture as being the first purported human population, because we've definitely found lots of evidence of pre-clovis habitation in the Americas, just nothing beyond 20 kya.

Bradford Cambron

I recall a female scientist years ago that announced she found 40,000 year old relics in South America. They made her a laughing stock. I also recall a photo of a Toltec or Mayan statue of bald oriental looking guys in an outrigger. Polynesians likely showed up here. People here before 12,000 odd years ago may have gone extinct at the Yunger Drias event when a meteor hit Michigan area that was under an ice sheet - sending chunks of ice all over and creating the Carolina Bays (they decided in the past they could not be due to a meteor since not high in certain minerals - they did not think of ice chunks making the bays).

twintwo

Refined stone tools were never necessary for survival, it's a mistake for scientists to equate survival success with improved or refined stone tools. A sharp flake of stone or flint does not get sharper just cause it was made more uniform in looks, the skill and artistry of making stone tools that are refined in appearance is partly social construct.

Johan Sanchez

I thought this would have mentioned the Cerutti Mastodon site, which has probably weaker evidence but is still very interesting

Psalmantha Monroe

Can I just tell you, in Ireland, it has been found, the same dates for people.living in Eire too. Remarkable

howard freeland

2y↑1

Clovis people came from Europe, not Russia. Read "Across Atlantic Ice." During the last ice age, ending about 10K BP, the ocean levels were much lower. So, the very early sites would be now on the continental shelf in several hundred feet of water. A bipoint tool was dredged up by a shellfish fishing boat off Virginia that was dated by bones found with it to be greater than 18K years old.

jon cosby

Let the experts argue the issues . Some of the old school Archeologists will probably never change their views . Perhaps more proof could convince them

Joshua Reavis

4y↑1

He is wearing an Engineering Explained t-shirt! You are infinitely cooler now in my book!!

peter smith

I think somewhere out there is evidence that people who became Aboriginal inhabitants of Australia, continued across south east Asia and across the land bridge to Northern America about 30,000 years ago. Then they were chased south by the Peoples of northern Asia who later became the American First Nations.

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