59-72 Belichicks record without Brady. He was top 6 in passer rating in 2001. He was great from the beginning even without offensive weapons.

In 8 seasons without Brady, he has 6 losing seasons and 0 division titles, 1 playoff appearance. Wow.

Bryan

FACTS!

Elan Rebsky

3y↑16

Dudes, Bill is not even SO SO without Tommy! Look at his record without Brady!

polly v

brady was lucky to have him

QuantumSpin

3y↑3

Over Tom Brady's career how many times did he win the initial coin toss? how many times in his OT games?

travioso00

3y↑4

Josh McDaniels ain’t it. Those wrs ain’t it. That o line ain’t it.

William Delaine

3y↑6

Brady a champ tell bill that

polly v

3y↑1

Let's be honest. A plethora of decent QB’s would have won with that Bucs roster.
The defense was so great, Brady didnt have to carry that team, all he had to do was not screw it up like Winston did game after game last year.

polly v

@HKashaf wasted? Nope, it is brady who could be thankful to Bill who gave Brady the framing of a system. Brady has been mostly carried by Belichick’s elite defenses, taking pressure off him on a regular basis and placing him and his offense in optimal positions to score. No quarterback has ever been surrounded by the kind of coaching, offensive talent and top-ranked defenses as he was.

HKashaf

@polly v Belichick wasted so many of Brady's best years. He even took 30th ranked defence to superbowl and lost to giants a second time. So yes, if Brady can take garbage Patriots team to superbowl, he sure as hell can do it with less annoying coach.
Belichick is never winning a superbowl again.

polly v

@HKashaf leadership can't win rings by itself. Send Brady to a team with worse defense and bad coach and see how far his "leadership" and "culture" will take them. Not far.
As for Pats, Bill was right to get rid of Brady, young Mac is already better than rookie Brady... hell, he even outplayed him this season

HKashaf

Ya right, it about the leadership and no other qb would have galvanized the team the way he did. Give credit where it's due and stop hating. Brady should have moved on from Patriots long ago. You guys don't deserve 6 championship.

Earl Johnson

3y↑3

How about “I am trying to win 10… I got no time for this.”

D C

3y↑1

They way i see it if they valued brady so much they should have got him talent. He knew he didnt have shit so he left. If cam had not have came there they would have been 1-15 easy.

FreeSociety1

3y↑2

Understand that Bill Belichick had a career won-loss record below 500 (Cleveland, New England) over the course of 5 years prior to Tom Brady. And now that Belichick pushed Brady away, and refused to give him a "Drew Brees" contract, Belichick is back to being just another ordinary NFL Coach with unremarkable results. But Tom Brady never needed Belichick to be a Champion. He won The Orange Bowl at Michigan in College (and had a 20 - 4 record), and after taking The Patriots to 9 Super Bowls and winning 6 (should have won 8 too had Belichick not benched Malcolm Butler, and also forfeited a 45-yrd Field Goal in the first Giants Super Bowl), Brady has now clearly established himself as a World Champion (7th Super Bowl win) once again with a whole new coach and a different Team. So the true "Patriot Way" was not Belichick blabbering nonsense like "no days off" (which is impossible anyway). The true "Patriot Way" was always The BRADY WAY ... Brady's consistent winning .. consistent clutch play.. his unmatch drive and supernatural will power...and the ability to always rise to whatever level the situation required to be the CHAMPION, and be the last guy standing. THAT was always Tom Brady. That's where the magic always was, and will remain.

polly v

@FreeSociety1 I get your point, but I'm not buying it completely. Brady lost some SB matches, right? How come, if he's that great and if defense doesn't matter that much? Because of the bad defense of his team, you will say. And that's where my point comes in. You can't give all the credit to QBs when their team wins, but when they lose it's always someone's else fault. Nope. It's a team game. As for the last SB, for me it was defense that stopped Chiefs and won the match. Brady scored 31 which is not bad, but they didn't really need all those points. So for me he was never true MVP. To conclude, number of rings doesn't tell the whole story to me, that's why I'm not impressed if brady has 7 or 8 - he didn't win them alone.

FreeSociety1

@polly v Well ... i agree that Football is a Team sport. But that said, a Defense only does something special if it holds an opponent to under 20 points. There were only 2 Super Bowl wins in History where the Patriots Defense actually held their opponent to under 20 points (2002 vs Rams: 20 ..17, and 2019 vs Rams: 13 .. 3) . Just 2. All the other Patriot Super Bowl wins were much higher scoring affairs -- with the Defense not doing anything special at all, and giving up many more points, and Brady rallying the Team to victory in the 4th Qtr. . For the Bucs Super Bowl (which had nothing to do with Bill Belichick), it is true that their Defense played great against the Chiefs, but Brady also scored 31 points of Offense too. So that was a case of both Units playing extremely well (not one Unit carrying the other one), as it was a blowout. In summary, Belichick never "carried Tom Brady" to anything. Brady always played clutch situational Football to a level that no other QB has ever matched, and he has a stellar won loss record, and Championships, in both places that he played without Bill Belichick (Michigan-Orange Bowl and Tampa Bay SB). So while Teams win games (and not just one player), the facts also show that Championships and success have always followed Tom Brady, with or without Bill Belichick involved. But Belichick has not won Championships with any other QBs (Cleveland, New England).

polly v

@FreeSociety1 Looks like we have different opinions on defense. for me, Bill Belichick carried Tom Brady to 3 or 4 of his 7 wins, and as for the Bucs, it was defense that won the SB against chiefs (by limiting them under 10 pts). But the media ofc always praise QBs, that's the way the league is set today. Brady got rings etc etc.. yes but he didn't win those rings alone. Let's give the credit to the defense, the system and coaches too, that's all I'm asking for

FreeSociety1

3y↑2

@polly v Belichick defenses have often been very bad. Just look at the Super Bowl against the Eagles - who scored a whopping 41 points, and never once punted the ball (wasting a 500-yard performance by Brady). Look at Brady's second Super Bowl win against Carolina where they scored 29 points, and Brady had to be better. Look at Atlanta, where they scored 28 points and should have had more (except they shot themsleves in the foot), and Brady overcame a 28 -3 deficit. Look at Brady's dramatic AFC win over the KC Chiefs? Brady carried the Team countless number of times, over and over again, with his dramatic and clutch come-from-behind 4th quarter rallies every year. The pressure was always on Brady, if the Team was ever going to actually win ... aside from just a mere handful of games (Rams Super Bowl). Brady was also never in an "optimal"position with The Patriots, as he was often surrounded by just average and inferior offensive talent around him. The only Elite players Brady got to play with in New England was Randy Moss for just 2 seasons, and Gronk. Brady is in a better place now (Tampa), with better personnel, where he is finally in a good position to score points (he had 50 TDs last year) .. as long as they all can stay healthy. Brady won The Orange Bowl at Michigan in College (and had a 20 - 4 record), so the "System" of actually winning championships has always followed Tom Brady. Bill Belichick had a 5 - 11 record in 2000 (before Brady), and started off 0 - 2 in 2001 (before Brady played) - so just what kind of a "System" is that? Brady has never once had a losing season as a QB either in college or in the NFL. So THAT's the system here!! And now that System is in TAMPA BAY.

polly v

Bill gave Brady the framing of a system.
Brady has been carried by Belichick’s elite defenses, taking pressure off Brady on a regular basis and placing him and his offense in optimal positions to score

Dark Knight

3y↑3

Where’s all that hype about Mac Jones! Not looking good only gonna get worse week 4! Should have kept Cam you would be undefeated right now! Pats won’t make playoffs again with talent. Gave Cam trash and he took you 7-9. Mac got all the talent and scared!

Danno GNR88

Two games left and on course to make the playoffs, your comment has aged like fine wine.

chris arban

3y↑1

Go LA RAMS

Bryan

3y↑2

Bro you had a platform at ESPN and look at you now Damm how the mighty have fallen.

Bryan

@Orange County 714 Michael Smith is irrelevant today and Jemele Hill would you knock it off

Orange County 714

What the hell you talking about, their on peacock network, alot of well known sport analyst are there. Besides their broadcasting by zoom cause of covid.