Blood
lo-fi calvinists Lyrics

Jump to: Overall Meaning ↴ Line by Line Meaning ↴

Come on, baby, won't you give it a go?
How can they hate someone they don't even know?
You're really too quiet and it says you agree
There's nobody sicker than someone like me

I'm just a ghost in a blood machine
A dirty idea
But my heart is clean

I know you hate it that you love me, but baby, will you hold me?
Baby, will you hold me if they can't see?

Just me and you in a club for two
I could be a ghost if you want me to
You're really too quiet and it says you agree
There's nobody sicker than someone like me

I'm just a ghost in a blood machine
A dirty idea
But my heart is clean
I know you hate it that you love me, but baby, will you hold me?
Baby, will you hold me if they can't see?

Leave 'em, I know you wanna (Kiss me)
Don't worry about what your mama would say
One day they'll be gone
And leave us to carry on
Kiss me, I know you wanna
Don't worry about what your mama would say
One day they'll be gone
And leave us to carry on
And leave us to carry on
They'll leave us to carry on
Leave us to carry on

I'm just a ghost in a blood machine
A dirty idea
But my heart is clean

I know you hate it that you love me, but baby, will you hold me?
Baby, will you hold me if they can't see?

Overall Meaning

The lyrics of Lo-Fi Calvinists' "Blood" talk about the struggles and insecurities of a person, who feels like a "ghost in a blood machine" and is convinced that no one is sicker than them. The song opens with the artist asking someone to give them a chance and wondering how people are capable of hating someone they do not even know. The artist then talks about feeling invisible and wanting the person addressed in the song to hold them, even if others cannot see them.

Throughout the song, the artist appears to be dealing with internal struggles and self-doubt, which they try to mask by presenting a tough exterior. The lyrics suggest that the artist is looking for someone to understand and accept them, even though they do not fully understand themselves. The artist also appears to be grappling with societal expectations and the fear of judgment.

Despite the heavy subject matter, the song carries a sense of hope, as the artist believes that one day they will be able to move beyond their struggles and carry on. The chorus, with its plea for someone to hold the artist, offers a sense of connection and intimacy that the artist seems to desire.

Overall, "Blood" is a raw and heartfelt exploration of the complexities of human emotion, self-acceptance, and the need for connection and understanding.

Line by Line Meaning

Come on, baby, won't you give it a go?
I'm asking you to take a chance with me.

How can they hate someone they don't even know?
It's unfair to judge someone without getting to know them.

You're really too quiet and it says you agree
Your silence is interpreted as agreement.

There's nobody sicker than someone like me
I consider myself to be deeply flawed.

I'm just a ghost in a blood machine
I feel disconnected from my own body and identity.

A dirty idea
I have thoughts and feelings that society might consider immoral or unacceptable.

But my heart is clean
Despite my perceived flaws, I believe I have a pure and sincere heart.

I know you hate it that you love me, but baby, will you hold me?
You struggle to accept your feelings for me, but I still crave your affection.

Baby, will you hold me if they can't see?
I want you to show me affection even if others disapprove.

Just me and you in a club for two
I envision a private setting where we can be intimate.

I could be a ghost if you want me to
I'm willing to disappear and become whatever you desire.

Leave 'em, I know you wanna (Kiss me)
I sense that you want to be with me, but are held back by others.

Don't worry about what your mama would say
Don't let the opinions of others hold you back.

One day they'll be gone
Eventually, the people who disapprove will no longer be in our lives.

And leave us to carry on
We'll be free to pursue our desires without their interference.

Kiss me, I know you wanna
I'm confident that you share my desire for intimacy.

And leave us to carry on
We'll be able to continue our relationship despite others' disapproval.

They'll leave us to carry on
Eventually, those who disapprove will no longer be a factor in our lives.

I'm just a ghost in a blood machine
I still feel like an outsider in my own body and identity.

A dirty idea
I continue to grapple with thoughts and feelings that are considered taboo or scandalous.

But my heart is clean
Despite my perceived flaws, I believe I have a good and pure heart.

I know you hate it that you love me, but baby, will you hold me?
You struggle with your feelings for me, but I still crave your affection and touch.

Baby, will you hold me if they can't see?
I want to feel your embrace even if others disapprove.

Lyrics © O/B/O APRA AMCOS

Lyrics Licensed & Provided by LyricFind

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Most interesting comments from YouTube:

DamonNomad82

1y↑6

Just as a handy form of reference for what one would actually have to believe to be a "Pelagian", here are Augustine's 14 points of so-called "Pelagianism", which no individual has EVER been documented to adhere to, and of which no "semi-Pelagian" on record has ever agreed with more than 3-4 points of AT MOST (Pelagius himself partially agreed with point 7, but not in the way Augustine accused him of, and straight-up disagreed with the rest). Also, note that point 6 is something that "Reformed Baptists" would agree with, meaning that even the likes of James White would technically be "semi-Pelagian" if one used the criteria they like to use!

1. Adam was created mortal and would die whether he sinned or not.
2. Adam’s sin harmed only Adam, not mankind.
3. The law leads to heaven in the same way as the Gospel.
4. Newborn infants are in the same state as Adam before his sin.
5. The whole human race doesn’t die through Adam and live through Christ.
6. Even unbaptized infants possess eternal life.
7. The wealthy must renounce their possessions or they will not see the Kingdom of Heaven.
8. God’s grace and help are not given for individual actions, but consist in free will, the law and teaching.
9. God‘s grace is given in accord with our merits and is located in the human will.
10. Only those who are without sin can be called children of God.
11. Forgetfulness and ignorance are not sinful since they’re not done willingly.
12. A choice is not free if it needs God’s help.
13. Our victory is not the result of God’s help, but free will.
14. The soul can be as sinless as God.

Sheila Smith

1y↑1

"Inherited a corrupted nature."
Where did Adam's corruption or corrupted nature come from? that we inherited?
This, "Total Depravity," and "Limited Ability," is the only issue I disagree with Leighton on.
His presenting C.S. Lewis actually makes my argument that although we have experiences in the world unlike Adam and Eve, our nature has not changed.
Adam and Eve had a nature able to choose obedience and disobedience....as do we.
After the " fall," we see this truth in the actions of Cain and Abel.
These brothers, and their parents had the exact same will and ability.
And TOTAL, means total. No qualification.
One can't, by definition, be totally depraved and then act without depravity. Abel acted without total depravity.

All comments from YouTube:

A.K.

1y↑37

I've an idea: since calvinists can re-brand their soteriology the "Doctrines of Grace," let's just re-brand ours as the "Doctrines of Scripture."

A.K.

1y↑2

@Animosity 1000 since you "get it" I must conclude that you're deliberately erecting straw man arguments.

Animosity 1000

@A.K. you believe in two wills why are you laughing you believe man’s will is decisive in salvation. I get it Leighton Flowers doesn’t like total inability He wants people to think that they can come to true repentance apart from God granting it? 2 Timothy 2:24-25
And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

Swiftninjatrev

1y↑3

@A.K. I laughed aloud at that. 🤣

A.K.

1y↑3

@Swiftninjatrev "Thy kingdom come, thy two wills be done..." 😁

12 More Replies...

Janet Davis

1y↑40

I get irked when Calvinists think they have the rest of humankind figured out. They put us all in a box labeled ‘ hostile towards God’, ‘haters of God’, no one ever does good because they can’t, can only do evil all the time’, never seek after God’ etc. They think they know exactly what everyone thinks about God. Wrong. I never hated God. I sought him from an early age, but not knowing how to find him, since the church I grew up in focused on law all the time. Imagine my hope and joy when I heard the gospel of Jesus, and hearing that I could be saved by grace, through faith and trust in him! No longer did Romans 9 have the power to squash my spirit. Jesus saved me just like he promised, by his love. No more fear of not doing enough. He did it all, praise God!!

BEABEREAN

Unfortunately calvinists would likely say that you were walking in prevenient grace/irresistible grace...some may even go as far as to say you were already saved even though you hadn't heard the gospel yet or had true saving faith. All cop outs obviously.

So glad you know have a saving knowledge of the truth!

Born Again Believer

1y↑3

That exactly my sentiments!! I wanted a relationship with God and couldn’t figure out how to go about it, until I heard the Gospel- thank you Jesus!🙌🏻

1 More Replies...

BEABEREAN

1y↑5

I've been in youth ministry for 4 years now meeting with groups 2 times per week...I have yet to meet a kid who is hostile to God, even from those kids coming from families who do not even serve or know God. As soon as I open the scriptures and teach, they start eating it up and you can almost see the faith rising in them because of the power of the word.

Total depravity is ridiculous.

Manny Cano

1y↑13

The pure simple Gospel is refreshing

Cindy Hartline loveforthetruthradio tv

1y↑7

Loved this format and as always very informative

Shane Pennant

1y↑1

Thank you for helping to bring clarity to this topic!

Amadeus Asimov

1y↑6

1:15:40
😂
Thank you Leighton!
That fortress analogy right there is just hilarious and sums it up.
The more I listen to Calvinism the more absurd it is, and I just don't understand how people cling to it so desperately.
I think that is what bothers me the most with Calvinism is the "gospel + all this additional soteriology".

O’Brien

1y↑1

It’s the perfect excuse for sin.

A.K.

1y↑4

Understanding, of course, that they can say similar things about us, I must say I agree with your sentiment 100%. It boggles the mind.

Sheila Smith

1y↑7

So common a pattern of response. We (non calvinist) make an argument and provide specific scripture. The response is a different argument or a new claim. Flowers example of his sending a video link and receiving a video back that was unrelated to Leighton's argument, and unrelated to the calvinist initial claim is so true.
Early on I thought it was just a misunderstanding of my argument. I thought I was not clear. But then I came to realize that is not the case.
I realized, as did Leighton, that my XYZ argument is not being addressed at all. They respond with an ABC argument.
To engage with these folks is exhausting because the dialogue runs everywhere, and it's foolish for me to chase after it.

Andrew Lineberger

1y↑15

Calvinism - "When being better than everybody else ain't good enough" 😉

Paul Ofell

Andrew Lineberger it's basically high school bullying continued.

EION Tactics

1y↑6

@Habakkuk 2:5 You just blasphemed God, and you posted a whole lot of verses outside of context. I'm sorry, but you got beguiled by a bunch of ignorant racist people who don't know Christ.

1 Timothy 1:4

“Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.”

23 More Replies...

Nathan Hellrung

1y↑8

At the 36:00 mark of this video Leighton hits the nail on the head. Calvinists, show us the scriptures that say that because of our fallen state we now have this inability to respond, positively, to the life giving truth of the Gospel. Not your prooftexts that are obscure and have to have the presupposed inability or condition read in, but clear scripture. Because we have countless scriptures showing otherwise. At the end of the day, it comes down to scriptural authority. Seems that only Calvinists care as much about the labels. Why should we care about the labels? Wasn't the reformation done to get away from the stranglehold that tradition had on the people? To get back to scripture and what IT says? That's most of ours goal in this, what does scripture say? The more and more I've studied and dealt with Calvinists the more and more I see that they have stopped reforming and are literally relying on their traditions of men (the WCF) and what they tell them to believe. How is that any different from the Catholic church and practices they were trying to reform from? It's not. When a Calvinist calls you a heretic or a Pelagian, brush it off and ask for scripture and then be willing to show how their view is not contextually sound. Sadly, most Calvinists will just run from prooftext to prooftext NEVER admitting defeat.

John Q. Public

1y↑11

After this amount of time has passed with us pounding our heads against the brick wall it’s become an irrefutable fact that 99.999% of Calvinists are uneducable.

Kevin Kleinhenz

1y↑4

@John Q. Public When I was in college and newly saved I could not understand how my History professor with “history” as his “expertise” could be an elder in the Mormon church. In the same way I believe Calvinism has to be fed to a Christian in little bite size pieces in order to “indoctrinate”. I know Calvinists hate the comparison but when I debate with them I feel like I am talking to a JW or a Mormon. Blinded by indoctrination.

John Q. Public

1y↑1

@martypython --- I have a plan.

A.K.

1y↑2

@martypython one wonders if it's reasonable to reason that the reason for any individual reasoning originated from outside the reasoner.

martypython

1y↑2

I fee like a broken record, but how else can you explain under their presupposition other than that they are decreed to hold their views?

4 More Replies...

John Knight

1y↑3

I wondered about what could be causing pre-determinists to be so reticent (as they often seem to me to be) to discuss the possibility that they could be mistaken about God constantly controlling their every thought and action. And it dawned on me that IF you believe God is constantly controlling you, you would, by default, believe He was constantly with you/aware of you.

It would always be there, in the back of one's mind, so to speak, a sense that He is with you/aware of you, if you keep believing the doctrine of total-predeterminism. But it would no longer be true if you stopped believing He's constantly seeing to it that you think and act as He conceived of you thinking and acting, before making the material "world" we find ourselves in.

This logically "entrained" sub-belief that God is always with you, could be sort of addictive, it seems to me. And the "addict" over time, could become rather reticent about even considering the possibly of giving up that entrained aspect, of total predetermination doctrine. Maybe.

A_Phaneuf

1y↑1

Yes, good point. Let’s not discount the mental benefit that determinism provides some calvinists. It’s not simply “I can accept the hard truths” and so they in a sense often portray or believe themselves to be the ‘Christian adults’. However the reality is that some are getting something they like out of it, (I stress some, not all, some suffer terribly) what a freeing and comforting belief to be certain that the elect or chosen are as they have defined them, and that they are part of them, and that all, - ALL things are Gods will and work to their ultimate benefit. Pretty hard to give that up, and then accept the ultimate responsibility for some of the things you have done that you’d rather not, as well as begin taking responsibility for you future actions. It’s not like a simple correction where a person is like “oh yeah, I see your point, I think you might be right, thanks” it is like an addiction, but to a way of life that they would have to give up, it’s a worldview change.

Eric Edwards

1y↑6

This dude watched Dr. Bonner and Dr. Flowers and that's all he got? He OBVIOUSLY understands the history of Pelagius better than the historian who actually studied and WROTE. THE. BOOK!!!! about Pelagius. 🤦‍♂

DamonNomad82

1y↑6

Habakkuk 2:5

@Dunce Scotus
Crickets

Dunce Scotus

1y↑2

@Habakkuk 2:5 Interesting. He was Spanish, that one.
what is your God's name?

Habakkuk 2:5

@Dunce Scotus
You don't know God's name nor his Son's name trust me - you'll never know nor - ever - your god's name is Caesar Borgia - fact

Dunce Scotus

1y↑2

@Habakkuk 2:5 Ok, well, since the self deliverance isn't working, I rebuke that spirit in the name of Jesus. That's the name. Ok? Why can't you say it? Who is Lord to the glory of God the Father?

Habakkuk 2:5

@Dunce Scotus
Crickets

22 More Replies...

Nesto28

Thanks for answering my question 🙋‍♂️

Paul Ofell

Do you have college recommendations that are not Calvinist based? I have been attending liberty but it is high Calvinism. Recently tried to take a class on Romans and every assignment and lesson was shoving Calvinism and there was no way I could figure out to pass the class and disagree with Calvinism

Shawn Mason

1y↑2

I don’t believe the guy knows what Pelagius taught. I think he feels smart by just trying to correct what he thinks you said.
He does this by maybe hearing or reading something about Pelagius and feeling again smart by regurgitating what he has read or heard without studying any farther.

B.J. Allen

1y↑1

As always, I gotta go listen to the video being critiqued/commented on first. Be back with probably my pitiful attempts at some thoughts later.

Third Place

1y↑2

I'm noticing a common theme when a Calvinist talks about Dr. Bonner's scholarship on Pelagius, virtually nobody accurately describes her work and findings. It's very clear to me they aren't listening or only listening to find something to critique and ignoring the lump sum of her work.

Third Place

@EION Tactics The gospel is what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. It literally says "this is the gospel".

EION Tactics

@Third Place Also I want to mention, in 1 Corinthians, Paul is speaking in past tense. "The Gospel I preached unto you"
You see, this is the Gospel he preached to unbelievers. That Christ died for them (as unbelieving sinners).

No Calvinist can honestly preach that same Gospel to everyone. That Jesus died for them... because Calvinists don't believe that Jesus died for all sinners.

EION Tactics

@Third Place You are wrong. What Jesus did and who He did it for IS the Gospel!
Again, The "Good News" is that all men are sinners needing a Savior, and Jesus Christ is that Savior! God loves us (all men) so much that He gave His only begotten Son so that whosoever (anyone) believes in Him will have everlasting life! THAT IS THE GOSPEL MESSAGE! That Christ died for the whole world because God loves us, and He defeated death for us! All we (all sinners) need to do is believe that to be saved!

Simple. Do you understand now?

So the "extent of the Atonement" IS part of the Gospel! There is no "Good News" without it!

EION Tactics

@Third Place And again, I want to reiterate that I am not condemning individuals. There are many who were saved before they were beguiled by Calvinism. I am rebuking Calvinism itself as the false religion it is. IF you only ever believed in Calvinism, you are probably not saved because Calvinism preaches a false God, Jesus and Gospel. It is a whole different religion that masquerades as "Christian" in order to beguile the ignorant and to try to destroy Christianity from within.

10 More Replies...

Paul

1y↑2

Can you get anyone on here to do live discussions? This is a live commentary.

PETER JOHN BRANDAL

1y↑1

Wonderful job, brother Leighton. I only take issue with the modernist interpretation that says the wedding parables are about salvation. As every Messianic Jew knows, the wedding parables are actually about the harvest of those who know Christ and whether they will be first or last. Not everything Jesus said has to do with repentence. I refer you to Pastor Mark Biltz if you want to know how deep that rabbit hole goes, as he is familiar with how the Jewish marriage themes apply ONLY to believers.

A.K.

1y↑1

I'll have to look him up. I'm curious to see how he addresses the wedding guest who was commanded to be cast into outer darkness.

Janet Davis

1y↑6

Ephesians 1 is NOT referring to us. Calvinists are quick to insert themselves into the text, thereby changing the entire meaning of it. Step away from the text, Calvinist, read it like it’s meant to be read, a letter to the believers in Ephesus, not to us. You’ll find an entirely different explanation for what Paul is saying.

EION Tactics

1y↑1

Right. Calvinists don't understand the Bible as if they were predestined to be blind and damned.

Ephesians 1 is Paul giving assurance to all those who have faith in Christ (after hearing the Gospel) that they will receive all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. This is a promise God set before the foundations of the world. That the faithful in Christ will inherit those blessings in Christ through faith in Christ.

Says nothing about some gnostic / Satanic "unconditional election".

ddr513

1y↑4

Good point, and in the same way John 6:44 isn't spoken to some group of proto-Calvinists at the First Presbyterian Church of Galilee.

Third Place

1y↑2

Everyone take a shot 🥃, 4 minutes in and already heard "Pelagian".

Swiftninjatrev

1y↑1

💀

A.K.

1y↑2

@35:11 it should be a dead giveaway that they know their view of total depravity doesn't comport fully to the human experience and by extension to scripture IMO.

ladillalegos Ara

Great video thanks

Samuel Carter

1y↑1

@Soteriology101 The only major mistake I remember Pelagius making was agreeing with one of his followers that said something to the effect of "well, if you can stop sinning for 5 minutes, you can stop sinning for 5 more minutes, then 5 more minutes, and then therefore, indefinitely!" They did this as a sort of naive approach to put the blame back on humans and away from God, but it's akin to saying because I can hold my breath for one minute, I can hold it for 2, 3, 5, 10, 20, etc. and indefinitely. The human weakness in the flesh toward the influence of sin in the world tends toward failure to resist temptation and that is an ever present danger and not something you can simply get over. The analogy fails on that point, and then Augustine launched his counterargument with the way extreme opposite and narrowly prooftexted himself into proto-Calvinism.

You reallly should get David Bercot on this program and contact him over at Scroll Publishing. He'll have so much to say about this since he is a very well-versed and well-referenced early church historian with books that are very easy to read.

A.K.

1y↑3

What's interesting to me is @56:00 or so Leighton expounds upon how it's difficult to understand how anyone could say that Tyler Vela, or Derrick Webb weren't seeking after God because look at the evidence in their lives. I would put that same question back to him and ask how could anyone say these two were never "saved" before they apostatized? I mean, didn't they pretty much show all the same signs in their walks with Christ as you do in yours now? So since it's unrealistic to say that they never sought after God, why isn't it equally unrealistic to say they were never in Christ aka "saved?" But that's a different topic than this video!

ddr513

1y↑3

I don't know either of those two to be able to say anything one way or the other. I do know that a lot of people get caught up in the web-spinning and angels-on-pins sophistry in Calvinism, and many end up in another direction. Some to "normal" evangelical Christianity, and others become agnostics or atheists. The Calvinist image of God makes sliding away into atheism at least somewhat understandable.

Kevin Burtnick

Ok! Excellent idea to take this on.

Afterword

1y↑6

I am unsubscribing.

It's not that I don't like the content. It's that Dr. Flowers played a major role in my rejecting Calvinism during a season of my life.

I've done my homework and no longer need this sort of content.

So Dr. Flowers, your success has lost you a subscriber. Thank you for your irenic ministry. You are a wonderful resource, and I am grateful for your hard work!

Brian H

1y↑3

You can just turn off notifications of his stuff

Habakkuk 2:5

@martypython
That's because modern day Christians hate God his Son and written word "psalm 83:1-8" says it all

John Knight

1y↑12

I can understand you not feeling you need any more "convincing", but because the subscriber count apparently effects how many other people will see his videos, I suggest you resubscribe and just ignore Mr. Flower's videos when they appear on your feeds (unless one tweeks your curiosity of whatever).

martypython

1y↑3

If nothing else, these long 90 minute to 2 hour videos can lull you into sleep.

1 More Replies...

4evaMobnJr John 14:6

1y↑2

The gospel is power unto salvation 51:11

Kevin Kleinhenz

1y↑1

“I Evangelize when I get a chance” That statement let me know he believes determinism at least a little since it makes Evangelism so “secondary”. And why shouldn’t it? I mean whether I evangelize or not makes not the slightest difference in whether someone receives Christ or not. (Under Calvinism) If I have an “inclination” to share Christ it must mean I’m determined to, if I don’t it’s because I was determined not to.

ddr513

1y↑1

Can you imagine Paul.going around in the 1st century saying, "I'd really like to share this message with you, but if you're not one of The Elect, then you'll be accountable for it and your torments in hell will be a hundred thousand times worse." Calvinists actually say that, or words to that effect.

DAN STR8

1y↑3

Calvinists teach the non elect can’t understand spiritual truths and can’t believe. Many atheists declare “they can’t believe”. Therefore the atheist that does declare “they can’t believe” is understanding a spiritual truth and is elect and must believe because God determined them to believe. Therefore that doctrine of Calvinism must be false do to it leading to blatant contradictions. What a strange doctrine.

TheChristianLife

1y↑2

Calvinist like to always say its not about feelings and being fair. Then after I destroy their theology they get mad really quick and start calling me a troll and other things. Then I remind them as you should, it's not about feelings. Its about scripture and scripture doesn't support Calvinism. They need to take their own advice because it seems like they are emotionally attached to Calvinism if you ask me. That and they think there new Israel and scripture proves that to be false. But the real evidence is after almost 2000 years God did just what he always does he gathered back the exiles and gave them Israel back which is a miracle actually. So that has to be for a reason maybe to sprinkle them with clean water and save the remnant like the bible says. You add that with there views on eschatology amillennialism they pretty much dont believe in anything the bible says.

ARK rain FLOOD

1y↑3

QUESTION FOR CALVINISTS: would you not prefer, from an emotional basis, that all men have to free will and intrinsic ability to recognize their sinfulness and accept the Gospel? (vs having to be regenerated first to accept the Gospel)

Evangel Greek

1y↑2

@ARK rain FLOOD thanks for your reply . where they base their claim, any particular passage(s) ?

ARK rain FLOOD

1y↑3

@Evangel Greek calvinists say there is no free will. that God chooses who will be saved before they are born, those NOT preselected are destined to hell.

ARK rain FLOOD

1y↑3

@SD my intent is to address the psychology of calvinists: would they not PREFER everyone have the ability to be saved OR only those who God preselected?

Evangel Greek

1y↑6

I do not know many things - and specially english - but in my greek bible I see free will from Genesis all the way to Revelation. what is it that makes people say there is no free will ?

2 More Replies...

Swiftninjatrev

Does anyone know of any confessions (documents) that are provisionist or arminian?

Grant Holland

1y↑2

We notice in the Bible stories that all children run away from Jesus. Almost like Moses parting the waves , the children scattered because of his divine nature 😃

Purple Dragon

1y↑3

@Timothy Haugan He’s being facetious.🙃

Timothy Haugan

Chapter and verse?

Paul Mann

Leighton, a quick question: What was it that made it 'click' for you?

Jopa

1y↑1

Through the agency of Jesus Christ, God has take great measures to reveal his true personality to man. The complications introduced by Calvinism distort the true image of God and makes Him an impartial God.

Manny Cano

1y↑2

Yeah just from the context alone Sardis was dead. Jesus said you're dead but wake up!!! Proving that the dead that Jesus was speaking of did not mean that they weren't capable of responding to Him

WC

Question, a few months ago I currently started going to a Calvary Chapel Church Assembly of God. And the pasture there allows his daughter to substitute minister. I talked with the pasture about his daughter ministering to men. I explained that Bible teaches against women ministering to men. He tried to explain to me the times have changed and that my point of view was calvinist theology. I don't agree with the calvinist theology and I know that women should be silent in church because Paul says it's commandment of the Lord in 1st Corinthians chapter 14:34-38. And in 1st Timothy Chapter 2: 11-15 women should learn in Silence with all submission and do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man, but to be in silence. This is just a general synopsis of my understanding of what the Bible is teaching. I brought my grievances up to the pasture. I know I'm supposed to talk with the other Elders about my grievances. Though I know they're probably going to take the side of the pasture because I'm new to the church. My question is should I just find another church to have fellowship with?

WC

@ESWN My pastor's daughter's not married. And if you notice in Bible verse Aquila and Priscilla took him aside and explained. They didn't minister to him in front of everybody, they took him aside. Thank you for your advice and God bless. I've made up my mind and I'm just going to find a different Church to go to thank you again.

ESWN

1y↑2

You asked for advice.
Is the pastor's daughter married? Is she in order with her husband? Is she a solid teacher? If so no problem.
Look:
Acts 19: 25-26
"This man (Apollos) had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately."

Husband AND Wife can teach another man... 🙏

Habakkuk 2:5

@WC
HEATHEN R NOT BRO OR NEIGHBOR
(Leviticus 19:17-18) Speak unto the children of ISRAEL thou shalt not hate thy BROTHER in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy NEIGHBOUR and not suffer sin upon him thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge AGAINST THE CHILDREN of "THY" PEOPLE, but thou shalt love thy NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF

(Mark 12:29-31) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, HEAR, O ISRAEL The Lord "OUR" God is one Lord And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment and the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy NEIGHBOUR as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these

☝️OT and NT my brother and neighbor are ethnic Israelites - back to the drawing board - also address calling me a fake jew you Devil

38 More Replies...

Kevin Day

1y↑1

White et al. have tried to argue that "Pelagianism" and "semi-Pelagianism" are now historic terms and so it doesn't matter if their namesake held to them, they are required labels to describe what they're referring to.

This is so disrespectful that it essentially denies the resurrection and is a fundamentally non-Christian attitude. Imagine if in the resurrection you found out that after your death, everyone had agreed to name being pro-abortion after you and didn't care that you were against it. Do you seriously think that wouldn't matter to you?

ocarcara

1y↑1

If romans 9 was isolated i could maybe see as they do but romans 10 and 11 make it compleatly clear calvinist have no point

Glennis Hammont

‘These means are sufficient’, this is only valid if these means are anointed, which often is not the case, this is why the doctrine the Holy Spirit is so essential and lacking especially there where cessanation of the spiritual gifts is being taught, which greatly hinders the extend of the Spirits work and the Gospel, which was the reason the disciples had to wait, before the day of pentacost.

The Only Son

Is it just me, or, is Leighton not as "nice" as he used to be?

S. White

It is so disingenuous to say that “man in and of himself can’t come to God by a choice to” believe” in the finished work of Christ.”. We were created by God and all we can do Or choose comes from Him either way.

sunshinegirl1967

1y↑2

Hot topic: Charles G Finney. Go!

sunshinegirl1967

@DamonNomad82 wow, and nothing is ever said about the massive revivals that came about from his preaching and how most converts were true converts who remained faithful? That just goes to show how Calvinism dominates Christian study.

DamonNomad82

1y↑1

As I understand it (not an expert on him, by any means) Finney was a sort of "maverick Presbyterian". That is, he still professed to be a Presbyterian and kept their form and style in his worship services and revival meetings, but rejected much of Calvinism, though not all of it. His soteriological beliefs were called "Arminian" by his Calvinist detractors, but didn't strictly fit into Arminianism or what we would now call "Provisionism" (he rejected the General Baptist view of OSAS, for example, but also rejected the Calvinist form of "Total Depravity," unlike an Arminian). Outside of Calvinism, he's mostly remembered for being a very outspoken abolitionist.

sunshinegirl1967

1y↑1

Now, his preachings caused massive revivals that made Calvinists jealous and falsely accusative.

sunshinegirl1967

1y↑1

@Andrew Lineberger he had an ongoing discussion with a man who sent him to theology school and they disagreed about Calvinism but remained brothers. Don't know about Lordship salvation stance.

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Sheila Smith

1y↑1

Sheila Smith

@DFischer You stated, "Total Depravity does not mean we are as depraved as we can be."
Yes it does.
Go look up the definition of
" total."
You are making a contradictory claim.

Sheila Smith

@DFischer look at your last sentence.
Just as Adam and Eve were free to pursue any desire, we are free to pursue any desire.
While several changes happen as a result of Adam and Eve's disobedience, there is scriptural evidence human nature DID NOT change.
Your argument of we inherited a sin nature collapses with Abel's desire and choice to obey God, while Cain chose to disobey.
Your claim is without supporting scripture evidence.

DFischer

Federal head ship..
Adam sinned so all creation was under his posterity.
Total depravity does not mean we are as depraved as we can be . It means we act according to our sinful desires.
People may seek the things of God, very different than surrendering to Him as Lord .

Jo looks to the stars

1y↑2

Why do calvinists not believe world is a good translation from kosmos Every Bible is translated world. But then they accept the translation when it's not referring to salvation. Can someone explain?

DFischer

They do and it’s clear people are saved from every part of the Kosmos
If it was meant to say all of the kosmos than all would be saved.

DamonNomad82

1y↑1

It's because the translation agrees with their system when it isn't referring to salvation, but when it is referring to salvation it clearly shows that Calvinism is unbiblical and false, and they can't have that!

Shredhed

1y↑2

It's because the goal isn't truth.
The goal is to win

Punk Goatboy

No one should be surprised that God's judgement is met with revulsion and rejection. While it could be true that the creator might design a system that consigns all but the Christian to an eternity of the worst torture anyone could devise, it seems completely inconsistent with a god that is ALL loving. How can you torture in love? How can you base the living conditions of your creations on the merest sliver of time that compared to eternity is infinitesimally small? How can you base anyones judgement on something they have no control over, ie the ability to believe? I mean you can't choose to believe in something even if the punishment is eternal torture. Try believing something you currently dont, like flat earth or maybe evolution, to see that. It's no surprise the older you get the less likely you are to believe any religion. In what other realm would we say the younger you are the more likely you are to be right about something?

Anyway, hope that's civil enough for you all... just thought a viewpoint from an unbeliever might be of use in a debate like this.

Matt Leak

@DFischer so what do you make of Jesus statement in Matthew?
Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

DFischer

@Matt Leak souls never die either will be in everlasting joy or torment

BEABEREAN

@Punk Goatboy I feel like you may have watched "the good place" - 😂😂😂 that was the exact line of logic they posed in their heavenly realm, to the point that they added an option of annihilation for those who desired it in heaven.

Punk Goatboy

@Matt Leak thank you fie your reply. honestly, if that is the plain reading, then the eternal conscious torment view seems as similarly blasphemous a conception of Gods character, as Calvinism? If the choice was an eternity of any activity, or annihilation, I think I'd take annihilation. I mean to exist eternally means to repeat the finite amount of choices available to any person an infinite number of times. Ar some point you'd play chess, and eventuall,y you'd play every possible game of chess, of which there are billions upon billions. I suppose you'd just keep going, but there comes a point where there would be nothing novel to do and you'd have just as much time left as you did when you started... and once you'd played every move in every game ever invented, you'd still have infinite time left. Imagine having done everything there is to do, think everything these js to think, say everything etc etc... and yioud still have an infinity of time left... sounds awful.. id take maybe a 1000 yrs of extra life but if any of this is true, i think those who get to die would hsve the best deal... its strange the bibke usbt clear on this point, cos 1 punishment is unthinkably awful, while the other is ~~in my opinion~~ better than the main prize

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SD

1y↑2

It’s pretty telling that you were ruffled enough to make a nearly 2 hour video to “refute” Jay. 62k subs to his 70ish… he’s certainly going to gain more from this than you are. Well done 😂😂😂

Swiftninjatrev

@A.K. 😂 Hmm... It's okay. They can roast me: I'm from Idaho. Ready, set, go.

A.K.

@Swiftninjatrev you tryn' to get me into trouble with Ohians? lol

Swiftninjatrev

@A.K. Only in Ohio right? 🤣

A.K.

@Swiftninjatrev the guy who claimed God is racist tells us that if we don't agree with his childishly erroneous narrative we're spitting on God's Word and Christ's sacrifice. You really can't make this stuff up!

Jason Jrake

1y↑1

@A.K. the not-black not-hebrew hyper-preterists are the same way. They want everyone to know that salvation was for the Jews born before AD70, and no one else. Their now view motivates them to replace telling everyone about Jesus with telling everyone they can't have Jesus.

At least with them, they aren't claiming to be part of the special/in- group, so it's less likely to be an ego-driven belief.

Thanks again for enlightening me to what the heck that "conversation" was about.

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Huey 7

Always cringe when a Calvinist starts talking about inconsistency...only could make it to @13:21 without commenting 😒

Sheila Smith

1y↑2

Does the flower " draw," the bee?
Or is there something designed in the bee that causes the bee to be drawn to the flower?
We were created by God with a DESIRE nature, a nature that draws us to obedience AND disobedience.
Scripture events has the evidence.

Sheila Smith

@DFischer Not exactly.
Our nature, created by God includes the human characteristic of DESIRE. And scripture warns, "Control your desires."
Adam and Eve exercised their God given desire for Him, and then there the same desire, sought to be God.
Nothing in our human nature changed after Adam and Eve's sin of disobedience. Nothing. We are Adam and Eve, living in a more challenging environment. We are not in Eden.

DFischer

Exactly! Our inherent sin nature draws us away and only God can draw us back

Lewis Swann

1y↑1

I hate to sound mean but calvinism breeds man haters.

Jamie Russell-Christian Middle Earth

oh didn't you get the memo? People don't care what you say you believe. They tell you what you believe.

Ed Snyder

1y↑2

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatest of His Power towards US who believe, according to the working of His Mighty Power!

Ed Snyder

@DFischer we must seek the power of God, not the power of man!

DFischer

Sure Paul is speaking to believers.

PSU JerseyGirl

1y↑3

Calvinism is exhausting. What did the bible say, preach Jesus Christ and him crucified. Why do you need Tulip and to know about predestination. Calvinism is akin to JW.

DFischer

Please tell me your understanding of reformed theology and your understanding of JW?
Worlds apart

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reynaldo david

1y↑1

There are two kinds of sinners in the world, those that can be redeemed and those that cannot be redeemed... The sons of God are born sinners because they inherited the sinful nature of Adam after the Fall, but they can be redeemed because they belong to God originally... The other kind of sinners cannot be redeemed because they were never with God.. They are the children of the devil and they will never believe the words of God and the gospel and they will never repent... They will always do what their father do... John 8:44(KJV) "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."... All the sons of God will be saved because they will always beieve the gospel and will always repent... Galatians 4:6, "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."
Romans 8:14 (KJV) "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."

Ed Snyder

2Peter 2:12 And these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not, and shall utterly perish in their own corruption! If you can't understand that these are the tares within the professing false church? May the Lord help you! I never said that you were not saved! We must follow The Doctrine Of Christ!

Ed Snyder

@reynaldo david I totally agree with you. Are you really reading my message?

Ed Snyder

@reynaldo david HI Reynald. You may have meant to send this message elsewhere? I am just a simple person with a 10th grade level education, and, of course, a blue-collar worker. My knowledge in the truth of God's Word has only come through diligently studying the KJV and the Strongs Exhaustive Concordance Of The Bible. When one comes to understand the true gospel, in the promise of Christ to reconcile All Things Unto Himself. Then, the man made gospels fold!