Superhero
A.U.D.I.E.N.C.E. Lyrics

Jump to: Overall Meaning ↴ Line by Line Meaning ↴

Tell me, who'll save me now?
Please tell me, who'll save me now?
When I am far away
You still call my name
I must never forget
You'll never leave me, yeah
When I am far away
You still call my name

I must never forget
You'll never leave me, yeah
You're my Superhero
You're my Superhero
Tell me, who'll save me now?
Please help me, 'cause I'm fading out
When I am far away
You still call my name
I must never forget
You'll never leave me, yeah
When I am far away
You still call my name
I must never forget
You'll never leave me, yeah
You're my Superhero
Will You come and save me?
I need You right now
Will You come and save me?
I know You know how
Throughout all my weakness
You are the way out
Throughout all my weakness
Save me from myself
You're my Superhero
You're my Superhero, yeah
You're my Superhero
You're my Superhero
You're my Superhero
You're my Superhero
You're my Superhero
You're my Superhero
You're my Superhero
Strong enough to save me
You're my Superhero
Holiness invade me
You're my Superhero
Strong enough to save me

You're my Superhero
Holiness invade me

Overall Meaning

The lyrics of "Superhero" by A.U.D.I.E.N.C.E. express the singer's plea for someone to save them from their current situation. The repetition of the line, "tell me, who'll save me now?" emphasizes the singer's desperation for help. Throughout the song, the singer conveys their belief that their savior, their "superhero," will never abandon them. The line, "Throughout all my weakness, you are the way out," suggests that the singer relies on their superhero to guide them through their struggles and provide a path to salvation.

The chorus emphasizes the idea that the singer's superhero is essential to their well-being, with the repetition of the line, "you're my superhero." The line, "strong enough to save me," emphasizes the strength and power that the superhero possesses. Additionally, the line, "holiness invade me," could suggest that the singer's superhero is a divine or spiritual entity that can provide them with guidance or support.

Overall, the lyrics of "Superhero" convey a sense of desperation and a reliance on a higher power to provide salvation and guidance. The singer's superhero is portrayed as a powerful entity that will never abandon them and can provide strength and holiness.

Line by Line Meaning

Tell me, who'll save me now?
Asking for help in a difficult situation.

Please tell me, who'll save me now?
Politely asking for assistance and emphasizing urgency.

When I am far away
Acknowledging distance from support and comfort.

You still call my name
Feeling a connection or reassurance from someone even when apart.

I must never forget
Emphasizing the importance of a relationship or support system.

You'll never leave me, yeah
Feeling comforted by the promise of continuous support.

You're my Superhero
Referring to someone as a source of strength, safety, and comfort.

Please help me, 'cause I'm fading out
Describing a feeling of struggle or impending failure that requires assistance.

Will You come and save me?
Directly asking for help or rescue.

I need You right now
Expressing urgency and necessity of assistance.

I know You know how
Expressing trust in someone's ability to help and solve a problem.

Throughout all my weakness
Acknowledging vulnerability and imperfection.

You are the way out
Believing in someone's ability to provide solutions or escape from problems.

Save me from myself
Asking for assistance in overcoming internal struggles or negative self-talk.

Strong enough to save me
Referring to someone's strength as a source of rescue or solution.

Holiness invade me
Requesting spiritual guidance or intervention in personal struggles.

Lyrics © DistroKid
Written by: Eli Apger, Isaac Apger, Rob Apger

Lyrics Licensed & Provided by LyricFind

To comment on or correct specific content, highlight it

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01Free Yourself

02Liquid Breaks6:02

03Mystic (Tomz Remix)3:04

04Passing Memories3:09

05Superhero (Club Edit)2:59

PT2M59S

A.U.D.I.E.N.C.E.

06Waiting for You6:14

07Paradise - Radio Mix3:21

19All Right (Quixotik Remix)

20Sun on the water7:03

21Sunshine (Original Mix)6:25

22Fast Chill-Out5:51

23Aporetics4:12

24Hasat (Original Mix)3:59

25Holocore5:12

26Daybreak6:29

27One Pound Music - Original Mix5:15

36Fat Glide (Remix)4:32

43Repteis (First Mix)6:08

44Shock (Drum and Bass Remix)5:51

45I Thought (Severity Zero Remix)

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Most interesting comments from YouTube:

Collative Learning

5y↑70

In response to comments ..

Apparently the poster pics I used from Spider Man 2 and the Hulk weren't for the movie versions I was talking about. Doesn't affect the narration of the vid, but thanks for the info.

A few have said that the cynical, moody, serious superhero movies are all DC films, not Marvel. I still have quite a few superhero movies on my watch list from both studios, though I see Marvel did Black Panther, which for me suffered from a lot of the over-serious cliched problems that I dislike - well at least the first half hour did that I could bear to watch. Didn't DC also do the Reeves era Superman films (very positive and quite comedic in places) and the upcoming superhero comedy Shazam. I'm not convinced the over seriousness is a studio based problem, but more of a Nolan and Snyder problem.

There's been some good additional thoughts from commenters too. The idea that people want to see a superhero come along and fix the world's problems so they can just cheer rather than get up and do something themselves ... ouch !!! Interesting idea, probably with some merit, and likely applies to some other genres.

Re: Batman being a "miserable gimp". Perhaps I was harsh, any man who'd spent years as a sex slave locked in the pawn shop cellar from Pulp Fiction is entitled to a bit of sympathy. And it's perfectly understandable he would go on to become a crime fighter.

Thanks folks. Keep your thoughts coming :)

Fact check 101 Jones

5y↑6

Collative Learning
The original batman was so campy , it's what most people today don't get , burtons remake was very entertaining, camp with dark notes ..
It got to quote the joker
" why so serious "
I think it was a great movie but every time it got re adapted it got darker .
The movies coming out today all have " messages "
And most are anti American anti capitalism propaganda .
It's an agenda.
Is Hollywood trying to make up for the McCarthy era?

Son of Tiamat

5y↑12

Glad to see you're taking super hero movies more seriously. I recall you once calling them "beat up the bullies power fantasies"

I grew up watching 90s animated superhero cartoons like Batman: TAS and X-Men, and I'm amazed at how well they hold up. They dealt with very dark themes, not patronizing children but assuming they could handle heavier themes.

Anime too does this quite a bit (also, One Punch Man is a brilliant satirization of superheros many non anime fans enjoy as well)

I've been loving the MCU (for the most part) and was impressed with how well they managed to tie them all together at the end with Thanos being so well written

I look forward to your analyses

Pikachu Ferrari

5y↑2

@davidsirmons Batman '66 absolutely rules. (I also recommend Batman: Brave and the Bold.)

Batman isn't just a dark and gritty guy: he can also be hilarious (he is the ultimate straight man).

That's what's so interesting about the DC heroes: they're less characters and more archetypes, and each one of them can fulfill seemingly endless kinds of roles in virtually any kind of story. They're conceptually brilliant in that way.

Don't hate on Funny Batman. Instead, smoke a blunt before watching it lol and then see how you feel.

"Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb" is one of the funniest lines in any movie ever, fight me

mytruepower2

49w

I've never cared for movies that placed too much focus on the inner qualities of the characters, or on anything else that I can already see, hear and experience in my real life, with only a tiny bit of my attention. In general, I prefer films about how realistic people react in unrealistic or impossible situations, like The Incredible Shrinking Man or the early Terminator movies. Even when the main character is the source of the unrealistic or impossible elements, like a Hercules or a Sherlock Holmes, I would still consider that preferable to a movie about pure, human psychology or personality, if it's handled well.

My position on Superhero movies is similar. There's no reason they can't or shouldn't be preferable to human-focused stories, provided they're well-handled. In fact, that's how superheroes originally were. Earliest superheroes were more vigilantes with secret identities, like Zorro or the Shadow, and were treated seriously enough in that context, that they weren't mere kids' entertainment at the time. As long as they were handled well, and the stories and characters were written believably enough, nobody really seemed to mind the fantastic elements of stories like those, and people even found those elements an enjoyable addition. The idea of creating superheroes for a mainly-child audience, then later re-interpreting those heroes for teens and adults as well were later developments, though the idea of superheroes being for kids is something that did become lodged in the public consciousness, sadly.

You're right to say that science fiction and horror can be used in the same place, and many people see sci-fi, horror, fantasy and superhero films as a different beast from all other cinema for this reason; people expect more, visually, out of them, and they expect to see something that will grab their attention by being different from their real lives; unusual and bizarre. Sci-fi anthology magazines, comics and TV shows of the 50s-60s found their audiences in the same way. People went into those, not sure what to expect, but knowing in advance that no matter what they were about to be shown, it wouldn't be so close to real life, to make it boring for that reason. For many, that was enough. You have to write a story very poorly to negate the advantage that comes from showing your audience something they wanted to see.

That would ensure, I think, that good superhero films would have an audience, no matter what, but the size of that audience surprised even me during the first Iron Man movie's run. I wasn't expecting that film to draw as much attention as it did. It was a good film; true, but in a niche that didn't generally receive mainstream attention. Audiences that want to see a man flying around in an armored suit and fighting terrorists are significant, and have long memories for films they enjoy, but they're not the majority of film viewers.

The majority of film viewers are short-term viewers with short memories. They'll watch films that are popular, often because they're popular, then have completely forgotten about them by the end of the next year. Somehow, marvel managed to get enough good marketing around Iron Man to appeal to some of those viewers, after which each film would reference upcoming films in the MCU, and the Fear-of-Missing-Out effect kicked in after that. Once it became popular office discussion to ask whether others had seen the most recent Marvel movie yet, they'd basically won the battle for the attention of the public, until the first really good jumping-off point; Endgame.

After that, the mainstream audiences started focusing more on other things, and the ticket sales started going down to just the superhero fans, and even then, not all of those, since superhero fans generally want to see the superheroes they're fans of; not a bunch of new characters, created or revamped within the last decade. As far as explaining the sales numbers, I don't think it goes much deeper than that.

Oh. And maybe some people like superheroes because it's a pleasant thought that someone else could come along and solve their problems for them, but I think that's less superheroes specifically and more heroes in general, and even then, not always. I think with men at least; the main demographic for superheroes, it's more about feeling like there are no opportunities for them anymore, that rise beyond what's considered normal and expected. Countless elements in our societies seem designed to penalize excellence, so-as to equalize everyone, regardless of merit; a horror of our current, western understanding of society that was attacked very nicely by, of all films, the first Incredibles movie. If there's no place for excellence, there's no real freedom, because then, only the strong are free.

theproplady

5y↑20

I do think Superhero movies could be power fantasies for Millenials who've been ground into the dust by Boomer economics, massive college debt, and by every teacher and media outlet on the planet telling them they're the cause of all of the world's problems.

Other observations (some from the comments section:)

1. Superhero movies come with an already established audience familiar with the characters through the comics. In fact, comics haven't made money in years - they're just storage tanks for stories written by talented men decades ago. As such, movie producers are more willing to gamble on properties with a devoted fanbase.

2. The rise of The Serialized Story. Once, only comics could tell long running, continuous narratives. Now, with the internet, and the ready availability of DVD and big screen TVs, serialization has moved into TV series and movies. Franchises have their own "verses" - with several serialized shows and movies taking place within the same universe. (The Japanese perfected this kind of thing years ago with manga/anime and the merchandising that went with it. Today's nerds grew up with Japanese media and it's small wonder that they would copy the things they saw as youngsters.)

3. The technology to portray super powers has gotten immensely better. Action movies will always have an audience, but they can't get nearly as creative in the spectacle department as an action scene with flashy superpowers can.

4. The Rise of the SoyBoy. Traditional masculinity is now deemed toxic - the lantern-jawed, trenchcoat wearing action movie heroes of yore just remind the modern soyboy audience member of how weak he is; how badly he'd fare in a street fight. A soyboy would much rather imagine himself as an Adonis-bodied colorful god who can wreck his enemies effortlessly.

5. Remnants of the Dark Age. - Comics turned dark and gritty in the 90's so that insecure male comic fans could feel less like they're consuming children's media and more like they're watching something "adult" I think the people who made the early MCU films were kind of stuck with that same mindset -they wanted to establish these films as legitimate dramas, so they had to go dreary and dark.

6. Desire to remake the Superhero genre with "woke" messaging. This sort of thing isn't new. X-Men was basically Superheroes meet the Civil Rights movement, and there were attempts to educate readers about the dangers of drugs, etc. SJWs are now grabbing this and taking it up to 11. Who cares if the SJW movie studios lose most of their audience by replacing their escapist entertainment with finger-wagging lectures about how white men are the cause of all of the world's problems? It's not like the people writing the stories or running the media companies will face any consequences after their franchises go tits up. They'll just get hired by SJWs elsewhere...

Estamio

Spiderman 2002 kind-of drove the "powerless" theme home for me because the 911 terrorist attack had just happened and "where was Spiderman?"

The fact that the movie does not acknowledge the 911 makes the "real terrorist attack" more ominous by omission ("we don't talk about that..."). I think they made a mistake by pulling the promotional references to the Twin Towers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man_(2002_film)#Release

Thanks again, as always Rob--you are awesome.

All comments from YouTube:

Collative Learning

5y↑70

MCCrleone354

5y↑3

You haven’t seen Shazam!? It
is great, it’s better than that boring hunk of cardboard Captain Marvel.

Fact check 101 Jones

5y↑6

Peter Stanley

5y↑4

The problems lie in these very expensive films needing to appeal to young kids as well as adults, domestic and foreign audiences, male and female (etc) all within the same film just to recoup their costs

Marvel has a knack, much like Pixar, of effectively appealing to a wide audience and delivering massive returns. DC have recently had a big hit with Aquaman which injected some big dumb fun into the proceedings that had wide appeal. They will no doubt concentrate on having these tent pole four quadrant hits where appropriate (Aquaman 2, Wonder Woman 1984) but outside of these they seem to be targeting their films more at more specific audiences and with lower budgets to reflect that.

Shazam! was very much a children's film and the story of a boy who can turn into a superhero when he says a magic word quire rightly focused on those fun aspects. It wasn't a huge financial hit but the low budget meant it wasn't a flop either and audiences that did see it responded favourably. Joker on the other hand looks like a darker more psychological and disturbing use of a comic book property drawing on film influences perhaps more so than comics. The budget is also very modest for Joker and it will hopefully do well considered next to the low/medium budget films in a similar vein like Taxi Driver, The King of Comedy, Falling Down and Psycho rather than The Avengers. DC also have a film called The Kitchen releasing this year, based on the Vertigo line of comics for adults. As with A History of Violence, due to the lack of superheroes, the comic book origins of The Kitchen seem incidental and the film will probably play to a much smaller audience.

In summary, some comic book stories are just for children, some are just for adults, some appeal to both. That's all okay and the films should reflect that. Comics are a legitimate form of literature, they often take place in the sci-fi or fantasy genres but not exclusively so. Broad appeal may be necessary for big budget blockbusters but hopefully some more interesting films can come out of this whole phenomena in the future.

John rockwell

5y↑4

There are good reasons why Adults in the past like tales of supernatural feats and great heroes of Old.

Tales of Gilgamesh. The bible.

Lord of the Rings is one of examples.

Peter Stanley

Star Trek Theory I don't think I said that or agree with it either, but if a studio spends $200m+ on a movie they will quite reasonably expect to make more than that in return. The cost of an action/sci-fi/fantasy production requires a large investment and so always becomes a serious business venture at some level. The people putting up the money will often feel the need to interfere with the movie in a attempt to secure a better return, which is always a worry and ruined quite a few films. I'd always suggest that making the best film possible will be the best strategy for recouping the investment but then again there are countless movies than I like a lot that didn't make a penny. The medium budget film had fallen out of favour in the last few decades, in part due to the financial success of high budget action, sci-fi and fantasy movies of which comic book movies are a part, and low budget comedy and horror. We are now starting to see the horror genre move into this medium budget territory, which seems to have legitimised it for contention in some awards competitions, and it will be interesting to see what happens with Joker, which is seemingly a medium budget psychological crime drama. If critics and audiences respond well to it, that could potentially spark a little more diversity in the kind of stories and characters chosen for comic book movie adaptations.

16 More Replies...

edhoover42

3y↑8

It has occured to me that in superhero movies; there are 3 types of people: Super Heroes, Super Villians, and everyone else is a victim (powerless). It does make a lot of sense that people would crave movies about super-powered people when they have lost any belief in themselves ever having any real power. Given both of these facts, it seems like a step up would be to have a world where Everyone has super-powers. Go a step back that, and have a world where the real differences between the abilties of different people are elevated like super-powers; even though those abilities may be within real-life possible abilities.

unfortunatebeam

4y↑5

Very much appreciate this. I especially like the point at 12:22 where he mentions how people can never really look up or aspire to be superheroes because their super-unrealistic superhuman abilities will always make the audience feel inadequate and hopeless to even bother trying. Which kind of begs the question: why would moviegoers see these films to escape feelings of powerlessness, when really they would probably just have the effect of making them feel even more powerless and low?

Now that Scorsese spoke out against this by-the-numbers formula fare, and with Joker being as popular as it is (which in a way is like the anti-superhero movie), I think there'll be increasing attention on the emptiness and boredom of these movies, which will begin the process of veering away from them for something new and more interesting to take it's place.

Robert Beckman

3y↑9

That scream that Christopher Reeve gives off as Superman see's his dead love interest, caught my attention every time it was on t.v. Now, as an adult, my eyes water up whenever I view that scene. It's like all the acting of the all superhero characters in all superhero movies of the 2005-2020 era combined. Never has so much realistic emotion been put to celluloid.

Marcus Chang

5y↑3

Wow I’m pleasantly surprised to hear you liked the 2003 Ang Lee Hulk. I too thought it was extremely unique and risk taking for its time. I saw it when I was only 9 with my dad and even then it left me with an uncomfortable feeling that I’d just seen something extremely adult.

EgocentricHead

5y↑52

I'm afraid your problem is with Batman as a character in general, not just Burton's or Nolan's versions. Being joyless and moody is Batman's defining characteristic. Which is why he is given such a wide variety of supporting characters with more upbeat personalities to balance him out. Also, Iron Man 3 was terrible, in my opinion.

Christian Björck

4y↑7

EgocentricHead Well not really. Batman is supposed to be a gothic version of Zorro/Shadow/Sherlock Holmes, so it doesn’t mean he can’t be fun. The darkness angle has gone to far with the character, and you can partly Thank Frank Miller for that who did not get the character and tried to make him into Daredevil.

Not Eem

3y↑4

It's funny how quickly people forget that "Batman" isn't Batman... he's Bruce Wayne the Playboy, Philanthropist Gazillionaire. If you can't have a happy, positive upbeat portrayal with that then you literally should not be a screenwriter.

Great Indian Builder

3y↑1

@Not Eem if someone is rich that doesn't equal to happiness.

Not Eem

3y↑1

@Great Indian Builder
Never said that. I'm saying that you can have a joyful Bruce Wayne who indulges in wine, women and song as well as a Batman that doesn't sound like a serial rapist. Nolan made some terrible artistic decisions including his attempt to make Gotham look like the slums of London instead of the of the art deco/gothic look of New York city

Dawson Lenard

2y↑2

I have a feeling Rob Ager has never read a comic, let alone a Batman comic

4 More Replies...

Paul White

5y↑2

I agree with you completely about the correlation between the light relief of war time musicals and present day superhero movies. I believe the athleticism on show is a direct correlation to our everything to hand, push of a button immobile lives. P.S. I thought I was alone in liking Ang Lee's The Hulk, it's about family, nature and love.

Sam Harnish

5y↑30

I wanna take what you said both about the escapism theory and the grim DC movies and go deeper. Movies like Logan or the Dark Knight might be appealing to adults who want to continue to indulge watching their childhood heroes while having the sense of being "grown up and mature."

Collative Learning

5y↑20

That's an excellent point. By making the films really dark and violent adults don't have to feel embarrassed about enjoying the childish fantasy. Very, very good point. High five on that one. I'm actually planning a video on the violent synthesis between superhero movies and traditional action movies so will cite you on that one.

Sam Harnish

5y↑6

@Collative Learning Thanks!

I'm actually a fan of Nolan's Dark knight trilogy but I ain't gonna try to change your mind, but have you seen his latest film Dunkirk?

RighteousBrother

5y↑2

Theres a lot of humour in Infinity War and Endgame amongst the darker moments. When I watched both of these films it occurred to me that was a big part of why I found both films so satisfying.

Son of Tiamat

5y↑12

Collative Learning

5y↑7

Haha, I still consider them to be "beat up the bullies fantasy movies", but the same is true of action movies generally. Some of them i like too for the same reason.

Son of Tiamat

5y↑1

@Collative Learning I do agree modern superhero movies are too dark. There's always room for levity even in serious movies and I think the MCU achieved this balance pretty well

Son of Tiamat

5y↑3

@TRANZCO You sound like a LARPing NEET projecting their own flaws onto others. If what you said was true I wouldn't own my own house and take care of my family

Now tell about the Yang Gang and the bag

Son of Tiamat

5y↑1

@TRANZCO Also, you're pretty much saying "my superhero movie could beat up yours." You totally don't sound like a Basement dweller on 4Chan

5 More Replies...

Ben

5y↑23

Yes, please: more super hero movie analysis. Definitely interested in hearing more of your take on this recent social trend.

John Wonder

It's bullshit

Atul Lalwani

John Wonder so was 90s disaster movies and young adult novel adaptations but a trends a trend

unfortunatebeam

4y↑1

Is going on for 20 years now "recent"? It's fast becoming an OLD social trend

G B

5y↑8

I believe this is your most culturally important video, Rob. We do need more realistic heroes with characters who deal with real world problems in a way which inspires us, allows us to handle them better ourselves. You're right about a number of things here, including Dark Camp (as I call it.) To me, the Batman movies have always been Dark Camp. Nothing wrong with that, in theory, but our culture does need a change towards more psychologically empowering fiction (not in a superficial way.)

Side note: Superhero = Superficial hero. Psychologically speaking.

Collative Learning

5y↑4

Ouch on that last point, bu I'm not arguing. Dark Camp, Dank Knight, lol

Darla Lathan

Perhaps a cynical audience needs to protest online, for the power they seek. The proper media for turning apathetic people into activists is 'zines, underground press and comix.

B. Carlsen

5y↑9

My brother....As the son of a MAN who earned 8 Bronze Stars, it is time to celebrate ordinary people who exhibit extraordinary courage without weird powers. Thank you for your courage in pointing this out!

TheBigGSN5

Doctor Manhattan No, no I wasn't. The people he wants to celebrate made these characters, often to celebrate their fellows. Who more than a WW2 soldier would want Superman to swoop in and save them from an Axis attack? Acting like there's no frickin' war movies about reality is also ridiculous.

Pete Castle

5y↑36

100% Agree, Blade 1& 2 blow Black Panther out of the water. The Crow with Brandon Lee was fantastic and I enjoy it vastly more than all the junk out now

FABULOUS DOLPHIN

5y↑1

yeah same

Tony Smith

5y↑5

The Crow isn't a typical superhero movie, in fact even though most say it is I really don't think it qualifies. Hell, the comic even kind of hints at the whole thing just being a dream sequence of the dying character instead of actual events. The movie never drops anything like that.
What makes the Crow work though is that our protagonist isn't out to stop some world ending threat. His opponents aren't cosmic level entities that can wipe out civilizations. His motivations aren't even pure. He's just a normal every day person gifted with one more night to exact revenge on his killers. It's a perfect one off story that didn't need any further continuation either.

Pete Castle

@Tony Smith I agree, The Crow isn’t a typical superhero I movie, I guess I lumped it in because it was based off a comic book. James O Barr based the story off of losing his wife to a drunk driver I believe and writing The Crow was his way of healing, making it a really powerful movie. I remember hearing Brandon Lee say in an interview that it was about justice for victims

Cliff Booth

"All the junk now"? Gimme a break jeez. You better give proper reasons why they are "junk"!

Aaron Lane

5y↑39

Well said. Lately, I have found refuge in the Western genre. The Outlaw Josie Wales- now that's a great movie with a badass and inspiring hero.

Collative Learning

5y↑16

Oh man I watched Josey Wales last week. First time I'd seen it from beginning to end. Superb film. Clint's screen charisma in itself is a super power!!!

Mark

5y↑5

"Not for eatin though, just for lookin through." and one of my all time fav lines: "Dyin ain't much of a livin' boy."

adz124ps

5y↑1

Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?

SoleMan117

5y↑2

There's something to be said for the over-lap of westerns and Superhero films too. One seems to have replaced the other...

Ron Froehlich

5y↑1

Hell's come to breakfast, little lady

2 More Replies...

Snarks

5y↑14

The hypothesis about powerless audiences and the appeal to superheroes seem a bit far reaching. I will say that the first Ironman film was a very good film that rejected a lot of the genre's tropes, so successful that it lead to several more films in the Marval Cinematic Universe. And so I think the problem is that there is a sort of network effect going. A lot of movie goers are influenced by what their friends watch, and people become loyal to characters. The reason why the Avengers films themselves are particularly popular is that it brings together these cast of fan favorite characters into a single film. So there is this network effect that only draws in audiences by allure of fan favorite characters, but it also drowns out the space for other more original films.

The problem with new original work is that it is more costly and risky to introduce something that audiences don't already know about. There's a real risk of the movie bombing. Sticking to these decades old characters is a much safer bet, especially when you can back it up with solid spectacles. So I return to the dismissal of the overall production value of these films as a solid factor because they assume there isn't a network effect. While the example of videogames is notable, their network effect influences is arguably much smaller than that of an established superhero on the movie screen. Spiderman is far more recognizable than Trevor from Grand Theft Auto 5.

I'd further add that there are more difficulties when transitioning from the video game medium to the film medium. There has been virtually no successful videogame films, and the vast majority of such films completely ignore the source material, having completely different characters, plot, and setting. Comics are a lot more focused on characters and have had quite a few decades of filmmakers to adapt. Videogames are a relatively new medium, and gameplay mechanics and the induced player experiences from the gameplay tend to be harder to translate into a film setting. Also worth mentioning that many videogames take inspirations from movie characters to begin with. Nathan Drake from Uncharted is very much a callback to Indiana Jones for starters.

orangecrushaa

5y↑1

Absolutely agree with video games failure in movies

unfortunatebeam

4y↑1

He talking more of the hidden psychology of moviegoers who herd to superhero movies, what affects them more on an unconscioius/subconscious level.

Rex Remedy

No, this is not far reaching. This is the truth. Plain and simple. I am simply not willing to accept any other explanation. As any other explanation would involve the dumbing down of audiences over the decades. So I rather accept the powerlessness hypothesis. And btw. both theories cannot be unified or at least have a common denominator. Its either or. There are no greys, and nuances, because my brain cannot process those. Hahahahaha

ZippoBoy ShaneShank

5y↑140

When Rob is praising Spider-Man 2, he actually shows a poster for Amazing Spider-Man 2 ( probably the worst of the films ).

ZippoBoy ShaneShank

5y↑1

Nice!

MCCrleone354

5y↑6

Yeah Amazing Spider-Man 2 was a train wreck! It was just made to cash in.

Nite-Mite

5y↑17

He also used the wrong Hulk poster, since he showed the MCU Incredible Hulk when talking about Ang Lee's Hulk.

Jarl Knudsen

5y↑4

The Andrew Garfield era films wipe the floor with the Sam Rami films.

MCCrleone354

5y↑9

Jarl Knudsen
Maybe the 1st Garfield film does some things better than the Rami films but I disagree. Garfield’s Peter Parker is devoid of the appropriate dorkiness that Maguire brought and is more of a generic blank slate of teenage angst. (The “Edward Cullen” hair and stalking Gwen Staci was weird. Do most nerds have time to practice the extroversive skateboarding hobby. This isn’t Peter Parker, this is a creation of focus groups)

12 More Replies...

Decepticon856

3y↑2

Coming from a comic reading background I love most of new marvel movies. Older comics were comical and the TV series were as well. Comics starter to get darker and have more serious undertones thus creating the new movies and TV series to follow suit. You would be raving on here is your childhood books/comics/movies didnt stick as closely to the source material as well. I share some of your opinions on the new DC movies, but watching comics I grew up reading coming into a live action versions are a dream come true an I hope they continue in an upward trend.

Wayne B

I'd say super hero movies are popular because they help convince people they ARE powerless. There is great comfort in knowing you can't change things and that someone else will do it for you - removes the burden of responsibility and the anxiety of taking on a challenge where you might fail.

Tangent Angela

5y↑3

Finally! I thought I was the only person felt this way. When I express how bleak these films have become, I'm always met with "they are badass"

Pikachu Ferrari

5y↑1

I don't find Snyder's movies bleak. What's bleak is that people view them as bleak. They're very hopeful movies; they just use darkness to accentuate that.

He's right about Nolan's Batman: those are cynical movies ("I have an idea: I'll spy on everyone in the entire city, thus proving Joker's point, and save the day that way!")

Collative Learning

5y↑2

@Pikachu Ferrari i can see Snyder tries for an optimistic message, but he fails because he tries to present positivity in a dull, colourless style. Doesn't work.

The Lies I Tell Myself

5y↑2

Collative Learning Now that I fully agree with. Zack "I like black" Snyder is an edgy teenager in an adult man's body. He has no idea what defines Superman and Batman. But I must say at least he's very mature about the criticism he received, unlike the manchild Rian "Subvert Everything" Johnson.

Dwight Sora

As much as I enjoy superhero comics and superhero movies (including a few Rob did not like), I think all of his comments are spot on regarding the overall trends in the genre. My biggest problem lately is they feel more obligatory than inspired, which includes their action and special effects as well as plotting and characterization. One reason for their big success seems to be they give fans of the original comics exactly what they want. But what is left?

Chris Court

37w↑1

I went to see Batman with my father in 1989. As the credits start rolling, my father says, "That was it? THAT is what all the hype was about?" Obviously, he was not impressed either.

Jonathan Barnett

5y↑1

Thank you. These are good observations.

I noticed a glut a long time ago. My solution was just to stick to one series. In my case it was the Marvel/Disney movies. That’s about 2 or 3 movies a year. I don’t own the movies on DVD. I see these once on the screen with an enthusiastic audience or streaming online. And it works just fine.

I finding heros other genres too like westerns and peplums and James Bond.

Azure Tiger - KFP Marketing Strategist

5y↑1

It's worth noting that a lot of people who grew up reading comics and watching cartoons are now adults who still enjoy the genre. However, those outside the genre fandom often have a hard time translating the imaginative medium to film. Mostly this is due to confusing "serious/gritty realism" with adult, often forgetting that early cartoons were targeted towards adults. Adults enjoy color and optimism as well, especially in today' stressful and uncertain world. I think this why the Marvel movies have done as well as they have. We also need to rethink the kid/adult divide, as some of what I'm hearing sounds like something out of the 1950s. No offense.

Kevin Clarke

3y↑3

Thank you Mr. Ager. You have expressed the problem with these modern superhero fantasies expertly. I completely agree with your assessment. Cynicism and edgy and dark atmospheres saturate these modern renditions. I also agree that the reason these movies are a mainstay in current filmmaking is that they are a way of empowering moviegoers who feel helpless and pessimistic about the world. It seems now that such characters walk a very fine line between protagonist and antagonist.

Galvatron over 9000

But movies like Shazam and guardians and Batman and Robin exist

Adam Hogan

5y↑38

I think there's room for different approaches to the genre. The Nolan Batman movies are more inspired by the grittier, darker versions of Batman that I think work well. I didn't enjoy Batman '89 or any of the 90's Batman films, but did enjoy the first two Nolan Batman films a great deal.

That style though doesn't translate to Superman. The character of Superman doesn't really work IMO if you have him as anything but unambiguously positive. The Zack Snyder/DC approach to Superman has been to riff off Nolan's Batman and it just doesn't work as you've observed (In no small part due to Nolan being a genuinely talented filmmaker and Snyder..not). The muted colours, the dour persona and general cynicism fatally undermine Superman as a character.

The more cynical approach lends itself to some characters more than others and DC's recent outings prove how poor a decision it is to broadly apply the same style and tone across the board. The MCU rides the line between grit and classic superhero erring generally on the side of traditional superhero tropes but indulging in some more adult themes when it serves a purpose. This is a smarter approach to be sure.

My issue with the superhero genre as a whole is its predictability. Like yourself I've only recently begun to watch the Marvel Cinematic Universe and I've found that most of the movies are fairly average. I personally enjoyed the first two Captain America movies a great deal, but was underwhelmed by the Avengers, Thor and to an extent the Iron Man series. I grew tired of mostly invincible good guys effortlessly battering mostly forgettable enemies over and over and over again. I don't feel any tension when I don't feel like there's any possibility of the good guy losing. That's pretty damning because I can watch a movie like 'The Thing' for a 30th time and still feel tense even though I know the movie inside and out and have memorised most of the dialogue. These movies often can't even generate any tension on first-viewing nevermind repeat viewings.

davidsirmons

5y↑1

Yes. That campy-AF batman TV series was awful, and ignored much of the dire nature of batman for goofy slapstick pandering to kids. The BS of Burton's batman movie (and all the other utterly forgettable sequels) was super-camp on steroids, and is now transfigured in every regard by the Nolan Trilogy.

The Lies I Tell Myself

5y↑3

TeaKae 421 I agree with most of what you said.
Would like to add that I think the core appeal of superhero movies for adults these days (and with adults I mean at least ~24 y/o) is the fact that it's a good way to spend an afternoon/evening with your family/friends and then being able to have something to talk about with different people for the next days and weeks. These movies are able to connect multiple age groups because they have something to offer to all of them. That's the core appeal for adults, they want to stay in touch with popular trends because it makes for an easy connection to people of all sorts of backgrounds. Especially townsfolk benefit from this cultural phenomenon because not everyone is a party animal, so for those people the city life can get lonely at times. The MCU functions as social glue for virtually everyone, and the reason they've been more successful than the DCCU is precisely that they're more upbeat, they contain little moments of humor and they deliver good sound bites. No one wants to talk about downbeat Sups in BvS. Tony Stark on the other hand creates a positive atmosphere.

Pikachu Ferrari

5y↑4

I don't find Snyder's Superman cynical at all. Not in the slightest. The whole point of that take on the character is that hope is meaningless if everything is fine. That's contentment, not hope. Man of Steel and especially Batman v. Superman are about being decent and kind even when literally the entire world hates you. That's a good, positive message.

I think people confuse the dark setting for a dark message, and that couldn't be further from the truth, in my opinion.

Pikachu Ferrari

5y↑2

Adam Hogan

5y↑4

@Toothy-Galore The visual style though is very much Snyder. Look at movies like 300 and Sucker Punch. They have a visual quality that Snyder has made his trademark and IMO that style does not fit Superman one bit.

'stop saying superman can be hokey but batman has to be serious.'

I said right at the top that you can approach the genre in different ways. Also, I'll say what I want because it's what I feel personally. It's subjective in the end.

Therefore, I feel Superman is best served as a hopeful, inspiring character who doesn't look fed-up of saving lives, at least in movie form. Batman has proven that it can be successfully interpreted in different ways but everything about Batman lends itself to a more serious tone. The colour/style of Batman's outfit, a crime-ridden city called Gotham, witnessing the murder of his parents and the often deformed, twisted antagonists he faces, do not automatically lend themselves to a light interpretation. Given DC already has a tonally and aesthetically contrasting character in Superman, I don't see much need to muddy the water.

21 More Replies...

Schismatic Schematics

5y↑1

I think that dark moody thing is Hollywood's attempt to co-opt the anti-heroes of 2000AD but which they can't do properly as the humour has an edge that is completely alien to Hollywood. Judge Dredd, for example, has a strong message that is all about undermining the idea of superheroes (and then of course there is Marshall Law - still not a film for some reason).

Rolphy R.

5y↑2

I agree Rob, even though I enjoy some cynical movies myself. The entire purpose of the genre right now is pure power fantasy. I like that you mentioned Ang Lee's Hulk as a very experimental film. it wasn't easy to watch for me as an 14 year old when it came out but now I appreciate it a lot more. The movie deals with a lot of dark psychological themes (the monsters inside Bruce Banner's head) but it remains colorful and campy through the editing —which I think is the weakest point of the film, unfortunately. Nowadays movie can get away with having dark psychological themes but the colors are gone.

Ethereal Sun

I really enjoy watching your in-depth reviews , extraordinary work! If possible, can you please make a analysis or explore “Nostalgia”. Its seems like the Movie / Entertainment industry, along with pop-culture has hi-jack it from us and they are shoving it down our throats…..example like Stranger Things , Super Hero Genres and remakes that don’t need a reboot at all , plus the useless merchandise that make us broke! This would be interesting topic to dive into, thanks!

80s Horror Central

5y↑2

Stallone once said Batman (1989) was the beginning of the end for old school action stars...you made his point a lot better than he did. Good video. Thanks!

Badgeholder

It would be great to hear your opinion about the reasons why and how the exceptionally successful films resonate with the spirit of their times. You touched the topic in this video, but I bet there's much more to it.
(And yeah, I hate Dark Knight too.)

Watcher

5y↑19

Thanks for the video. There's a video on youtube called "What Kind Of Hero Is Batman?", which discussed how the character is molded into any kind of archetype of hero, Classical, Romantic, Tragic, Byronic, Antihero and Folkhero.

James

Great analysis as usual. Could the first X-Men film also be considered a first, taking Super hero movies to a new level? The characters seem more complicated, with a new level of well done and integrated special effects. Thanks.

Collative Learning

5y↑1

I can't get into the X-Men movies personally. They hold no interest for me for some reason.

KeenThan Clever

5y↑1

I agree that generally, the best superhero movies are those that don't deny the silliness of superhero movies but have fun with it, like Deadpool. One of the reasons Arnold Schwarzenegger did so well is that he did the same with action movies. In the case of Batman, wasn't it started as a combination of the superhero genre and the hardboiled detective film noir genre?

Lovefist

5y↑1

I agree with your points regarding live action super hero movies. My favorite super hero movie is the animated film Into the Spiderverse. It really is worth a look if you have not seen it. It really is better than any of the live action films whether Marvel or DC.

Charles Thorndike

4y↑3

To those of you who are dissapointed that Rob has no intent of analyzing the Dark Knight, I would recommend checking out Rant and Bollox's 32 minute in-depth analysis of The Dark Knight. Great channel, and great analysis. I love The Dark Knight, but I respect Rob's opinon. It would be interesting to hear a 5 or 10 minute review of it from him, but if he's not interested, I kinda understand that.

London Maths

5y↑11

the justice league series on cartoon network back in the early 2000's was one of the best cartoons to ever exist on TV. PERIOD. The storylines, plots, jokes everything. along with batman of the future. You'll never see animation like that EVER again.

Taylor 26

I concur. Yes, thank you.

couchpotato

5y↑1

They just released a Justice League movie done by the same people set in the same universe this year! You should check out Justice League vs The Fatal Five.

My favourite moment in the old series was Ace's death scene with Batman. That was touching.

Mark's ESL StoryTeller Channel

Funny I was watching Justice League cartoons back in the 1960s.

Gamma Rat

5y↑4

Zach Schneider made one of the greatest superhero movies of all time, an examination much like this video of our psychological need for hero worship ..... watchmen is undoubtably a modern classic as is sin city , the Nolan batmans are an examination of the dark and light of human existence, they work well. Spider-Man and ironman are awful examples

BigGuy 4U

5y↑1

I am surprised you didn't mention Watchmen in this video. That movie is right up your alley as a critique of the entire superhero genre. Rohrshach would make a character study video.

Filthyfeline

I always enjoy your videos as they are always very well made and intelligible.

David Roy

5y↑11

Costumed superheroes come out of the 1920s and 30s when American society was dominated by corruption and gangsters. This was a time when anyone who tried to stand up for justice and the rule of law would be putting their own and their family’s life in danger.
Watch the show Boardwalk Empire and imagine a character like The Shadow or Batman operating outside of the corrupt police and courts to strike against gangsters and crooked politicians. This is what superheroes are.
During periods in America when public confidence in institutions is high, superheroes are usually campy and comical. But when confidence is low, more realistic portrayals of superheroes emerge. The collective psychological effect is to inspire good people in corrupt institutions to take a stand.
In other words, one of the deepest core ideals of American society is justice and the rule of law, and the superhero is one of the American collective psychological archetypes representing that core ideal.
In any given era, the less confidence Americans have in their institutions, the more superheroes are taken seriously in pop culture.

orangecrushaa

5y↑3

Interesting take

Marcus Chang

5y↑1

This is a brilliant observation.

David Roy

Marcus Chang Wonder if I could convince Bill Maher

Heironymus Blitzen

5y↑3

If Batman ever gets another reboot, I would love to see a 'Caped Crusader' film which is more based on the colourful TV series rather than making the franchise even more moody serious.

Something About Comics

Good video, I've always loved superheroes and the recent wave of movies has left me feeling "careful what you wish for". These are stories of super people not heroes.

ihavetubes

5y↑6

first it was the radio than the television now the internet, Next it will probably be VR. People want to tune out of reality and forget for a moment their lives. The movie Surrogates explains this very well.

handsomebrick

5y↑2

VR will fail precisely because it's about escaping reality.

JRR Lovecraft

I've heard that Zack Snyder is a huge fan of Ayn Rand and it's easy to see Objectivism in how he portrays Superman. Think to any scene with Clark and his mom telling him he doesn't owe anyone in this world anything. It's an interesting take on Superman, especially since I've always viewed the character as altruistic and empathetic towards other people (aka, mere mortals).

James Hunter

More brilliant analysis from the cinemaster himself. My IQ goes up a few points everytime I watch one of your videos. Thanks man.

Darren Gordon-Hill

Beautifully stated.

Were more like you IRL and less "Bill Marr's social shaming" we could address the ACTUAL issues... or just mock "infantile losers"; whichever you can actually achieve.

And now they tell us it's riddled with "sexism/ racism" - for there is no "escape"...

Peter Stanley

I agree with the power fantasy assertion in relation to the popularity of these films. What does that say about the state of the world? The desire for light-hearted comedies, musicals etc or cynical downbeat and murky dramas have in the past been responses to major wars, trauma and grief, but what has happened to prompt this recent wave of escapism and misery? I don't know, perhaps with this connected world and social media, our psyche feels constantly under attack. Seemingly a lot more people now feel powerless and despondent.

Angel Martínez

5y↑3

You are a treat, Mr. Rob. As always. I would love to hear more about this subject.

TandooriJones

5y↑3

That's why I enjoyed the Bumblebee movie
One of the best super hero movies in years.

Charles Thorndike

I wanna hear Rob's opinion on Pixar's The Incredibles. That is easily one of the best superhero movies I've ever seen

Fabio Bonetta

Spot on. Hollywood movie making nowadays is completely controlled by the notion of riskless investment. It cashes on characters and stories that already have a fan base, and are therefore garanted to yield the expected revenew. Notice how all the money are put on 2-3 projects while in the seventies money were split among a variety of very different movies.
Big budget movies bust in the early eighties ( Heaven's Gate is a great case study) is one of the reason this risk free policy was established. Creative control was taken from creative people ( film makers and writers) and given to accountants.
Indipendent movie making ( Tarantino, the last of Lynch, Cohen Brothers, Lars von Trier etc..)kept the boat afloat through the ninties. Then nothing. Noghingness happened

egoBorder

5y↑2

so glad you're taking on this topic! I've been wondering for a while about your thoughts on mainstream movies in general, and of course superhero flicks can't be ignored

James Van Fleet

5y↑10

Definitely agree that the "power fantasy" element is a big reason for the attraction to the genre (like, problematically so at this point), but it's not the only reason and may not even be the biggest. I would certainly agree with the people who say that the films are made also because of "pre-awareness." Not necessarily the "pre-awareness" of the comics being well-known to moviegoers, but the "pre-awareness" of studios knowing that a property has had some success and legitimizing prior to being adapted to the big screen.

There's also a circular element to it now, especially in the wake of the MCU's success, where superhero movies dominate because they have been dominant. It's still, for the foreseeable future, the global-box-office-crushing golden goose that studios elect to produce. To a certain extent, people are going to see superhero movies because superhero movies are the movies they're being given to see. (It doesn't hurt that these films are so aggressively marketed as "event" movies; if you don't see "Avengers: Endgame," you will *not have seen "Avengers: Endgame."*)

Sifat Shams

5y↑11

The greatest superhero film of all time is also, unfortunately, the most underrated: Unbreakable

Alabama Wyatt

5y↑3

The Xmen animated series is deep, colorful and engaging. Full hope, smart puns and encouragement. Better than any live action shows or movie universes.

Ale

5y↑29

"today's superhero movies are dark and cynical"
yeah especially guardians of the galaxy was the most cynical superhero movie i've ever seen

EgocentricHead

5y↑21

Actually, it was. All of its characters are mean-spirited dudebros that make cruel jokes. Not to mention, both of those movies treat death and threat as ploys for humor.

Ale

5y↑3

@EgocentricHead i think humor is an entirely subjective matter(with a few exceptions). How people pereceive humour is different for each one of us.a dark and cynical movie(as well as pretty dramatic) is Logan. Also,i find guardians of the galaxy 2 pretty sloppy and their jokes were kinda forced in my opinion(Drax's histerical laugh for instance)

rene L

Noirist films like Batman r worse imo.

Kevin Clarke

3y↑1

@Ale though an argument can be made that Guardians of the Galaxy is on the lighter end of the dark and cynical superhero trope, the characters still fit neatly into that style. They are digruntled individuals that can hardly stand each other, and they play the part of outlaws more readily than they do heroes. Basically, they're Suicide Squad Lite.

Marcus Chang

5y↑2

Hey Rob have you seen the 2009 film Watchmen? It’s probably one of the strangest, most artistic superhero movies out there, along with X men 2.

Anthony Ogletree

5y↑1

As always... an EXCELLENT analysis my man!

Mustafa Kulle

5y↑1

This video is spot on. Superhero films only appeal to adults who feel powerless in today's world. Alan Moore himself ('Watchmen') explained why adults today idolise superheros.
Due to their fear of the complexity of the real world, adults retreat to a world of simplicity where they can escape to. This has created generations of infantile grownups because they don't know how to deal with the world around them. Superhero movies today are nothing but power fantasies for adults. It's a retreat from responsibility. The colours are dark and the tones are cynical because that way they don't look too child-oriented. So far Alan Moore has turned out to be correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Th7xErIUg&list=PLAS2c8lAJ7dQq-7HLa6Q9W1B2VQxAmPH_&index=2
https://www.vulture.com/2016/09/alan-moore-jerusalem-comics-writer.html

Everton Porter

Adults used to go to the ballot box, if they wanted to make a difference!

Enlightened Den Dweller

5y↑3

I always thought The Mask with Jim Carrey was an underrated superhero movie. Did you see that one?

Andrew Stallard

One of the things that drives the superhero movie genre is nostalgia. Superhero movies in fact are for adults because those adults grew up watching the cartoons and reading the comic books.

In fact, to kids today those superheroes are movie and live-action TV characters, not comic book or cartoon characters.

They are watching anime, not western cartoon superheroes.

chet_inator_gator

John Wick, may be a good fit for today's version of screen heroes you spoke about like Charles Bronson in Death Wish, etc. Out next week! Haha.. I also agree with other comments, that I'd be interested in your take on Captain America: Winter Soldier, and some of the other superior MCU films. They are definitely more complex than most would think, and work on multiple levels for (older) children and adults. Still need to see Upgrade!

Yannick Claes

They ruined John Wick 3 by giving him a sidekick.

SYSTEM ERROR

5y↑3

Have you ever read the graphic novel Marvels, it's the best Marvel film to me, but it's a comic. But it's unlike any other Marvel comic, it's from the perspective of a normal human photo journalist in New York city. The art is painted from life so it feels photorealistic, it's all historically situated with beautiful period detail. It's really as beautiful as cinema if not more so. You really get a sense of what it would be like if these godlike people were real and flying through New York knocking the shit out of each other. It captures the breathtaking awe of witnessing something like that. Whereas a lot of the movies are pretty cookie cutter, often snarky, with tedious and overrated action. But Marvels is a real masterpiece, an artistic triumph. It's really more than a comic, but if you want to call it a comic, it's one of the greatest comics ever made.

Emma Lewis Art

5y↑1

Hiya Rob! Really enjoying your analysis especially The Shining stuff which has become a different beast again before my very eyes after recently treating myself to a great big tv. Amazing! I'm now wondering what you make of The Ritual which is a new fav of mine. Hope this message finds you well. Em.

handsomebrick

5y↑1

Superhero movies were created by the death of superhero comics. Stan Lee became very interested in comics merchandising in the 1970s, this caused the comics themselves to stagnate since the characters had to be re-interpreted as static icons, it did pay off but at the cost of writing quality and readership in turn, this wouldn't have been so bad in itself but DC had a habit of mindlessly imitating whatever Stan Lee did, and after Star Wars most companies developed a similar fascination with merchandising anyway. So we have all these characters and their myriad interpretations in media and the merchandising empires surrounding them in lieu of the comics, basically. I find this situation fascinating and I'm wondering how it will develop.

Ghost

5y↑112

"Batman looks like a Gimp" 🤣🤣🤣 best line here.

Ghost

@Jose Parcenary oh God. no more. no more 😂😂

Jujoji

5y↑1

@TheHiphopgems it's a reference to a character from Pulp Fiction, that particular character is sex slave in a vinyl/rubber mask

crustum cremo

@TheHiphopgems Try google buddy.

TheHiphopgems

@crustum cremo You didnt have to waste your time answering, since as you can see above, the question has already been answered by kind polite people, but thank you for your concern. Have a nice day.

crustum cremo

@TheHiphopgems It wasn't meant as a pop at you. I forget that it sounds different in my head. You could also have saved time and gone straight to looking into it.

1 More Replies...

K2 Studio

I agree with you on most every point you raise, I am not a fan of the modern glut of "superhero" films, but I think Nolan's Batman films are fantastic. They are very much like the rebooted 007 films, except Batman doesn't kill people.

Johny40Se7en

"Batman looks like a gimp" hahahaaaa. I was enjoying this video long before hearing that but that tipped it into awesome =P

I love it when you dubbed the music for the cheesy Batman tv show over Ben Affleck's Batman too, bloody wicked.

My favourite comic book adapted film of all time is Blade and that was the absolute turning point of bringing comic book films into proper adult territory. I often relate better with anti heroes than heroes. Anti heroes always try and do the right thing BUT they have a dark side that they contend with all the time which it makes it even harder for them to overcome, they are the true heroes of the comic book Worlds. Punisher, Spawn and Venom are another 3 of my all time favourites also.

P.S. Batman's a villain, not a hero, if you don't agree, have a think about it. It's like a fucked up version of Yin and Yang.

ChromeJob

5y↑1

Yes, please. Do more, but first go back and select the poster for the CORRECT Hulk film. I still enjoy watching Ang Lee’s Hulk because it had an emotional underpinning, not just “superpowers.” I though the Hulk was far more believable.

Note also that Superman’s dark, gritty costume became bright, eye-stabbing cadet blue with the color timing change to Justice League. Now he’s a “good guy,” CGI upper lip and all. Silly change, they should’ve stuck to their guns. :P

SoleMan117

5y↑2

There was a comment here yesterday, but now I can't find it, about how a guy really liked the first two Dark Knight films. I realize part of the reason I really like them is that they're not traditional superhero films, but more rooted in the gangster/crime genre. Really, if you take out of the much more absurdist elements of the films, they might have made a wonderful drama about the nature of vigilantism, violence in society, etc. And sure enough, when the third film came out, being much more a traditional, absurdist superhero film, I bitched and moaned about how it "betrayed what the other two stood for." (I was a teenager; I was passionate) By that same token, I loved "Logan" for the same reason. I know you really hated the film, but it's not a traditional superhero film--rooted more in the tradition of westerns, particularly those about old gunslingers whose worlds are dying around them. Think Unforgiven and The Wild Bunch. Try re-watching it with that in mind.

nigel Donaldson

32w

I would agree with you about Ang Lee's- HULK film, he placed the emphasis on philosophy the...nuclear test symbolism worked well I thought, all the back ground stuff about Banner's child hood, and the remote dessert into civilisation stuff worked well.

giuseppi77

5y↑8

Not sure if you’d like the Punisher films (stay away from the Netflix series) or not since he’s basically an anti-hero and completely humorless, though he’s a great throwback to the Bronson/Eastwood vigilantism of the 70s, especially the 2004 version. There’s great dark humor in them, too.

ZippoBoy ShaneShank

5y↑1

I'd love to see a long video essay by Ager, about the MCU or the modern superhero age of films.

Pikachu Ferrari

I want to see him go in on Snyder.

I think he's wrong in general terms (those movies are NOT cynical) but hos analysis would be interesting nonetheless.

Vanth Dreadstar

You should check out the recent DC Animated movies to see superheroes portrayed as dry, soulless, cardboard versions that would be better suited for courtroom drama than the world of fantasy.

Kuru8

Superberb analysis so far. Your content is great. Are there any specials or package deals currently running on your site. Thinking of buying in bulk. I overthink choices till exaustion and I nearly fainted when I saw the topics and film picks. My go to is always Kubrick so I'll probably start there. Listened to the YouTube edits on his work multiple times.
Also a heavy reader so I might end up digging the written ones. Anyway. I'm rambling.

lobster whisperer

Reminds me of the fall of Rome and the Colosseum gladiatorial fights..that's what these superheros movies represent. A form of mild sedation.

Desiderata

Every superhero loving man child NEEDS to watch this video

Christopher Rodearmel

5y↑34

A fine video, though as Rob admits to have not finished catching up on modern superhero films, perhaps a bit premature. This video seem to have avoided almost the entire modern MCU, while focusing on the DC Universe, which is far less popular, less successful, and more dreary. Still some fine points though.

Collative Learning

5y↑7

I'm putting the effort in to watch lots of them at the mo so maybe I'll get new vid ideas. There's a lot of super hero movies out there. For some reason I have a mental block where I don't enjoy movies that have multiple super heroes in the same story, aside from a hero vs villain scenario of course.

Donny Airworthy

5y↑2

Only The Winter Soldier

Ebola Kun

5y↑2

CecilMcW00t “a good dose of humor” endgame was filled with such badly timed and simply bad jokes throughout.

Tony Smith

5y↑1

@Ebola Kun It's almost like some comedy works for one guy but not another. The only humor I didn't like in Endgame was fat Thor >.>

Beep Beep

Tony Smith that’s the worse example of a joke. Toting a characters depression for a laugh

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J V ELL

Agreed re most, if not all of what you say... maybe all of it, really.
Ledger’s Joker was pretty good, imo. He seemed just like a very weird guy... like a villain from a normal action movie with genuine maladjustment. But the writing still didn’t let us too far into him, and then the actor died. I agree w yr take on Snipes in Blade... too bad the guy got into tax trouble. Most of the rest of it has just not been engaging. The cynicism is pretty weird...
And for all his obtuseness, Shyamalan manages the armature of a compelling cycle imo with his Glass trilogy. Which not to say that there aren’t problems, several, but it at least feels weighty or genuine somehow.

couchpotato

You used a picture of the animated Justice League cartoon so I felt like bringing this up. A few weeks ago they released an animated movie set in the same universe and continuity of that cartoon for the people who grew up with it, Justice League vs The Fatal Five. It was about the new Green Lantern who suffered PTSD from her friends being murdered and a schizophrenic guy from the future. But it's not cynical at all. I loved it a lot and I'm suffering severe anxiety and trauma based disorders myself. It was pretty inspirational, but it was a lot more grounded because it was like her overcoming her issues. Its worth checking out maybe. As was the alternate universe Justice League Gods and Monsters.

TRANZCO

Why not check out Andrei Tarkovsky's "Stalker"? It deals with the issues you mention
and it's a real film - not a cartoon - which is even better.

handsomebrick

I think an argument could be made that the Justice League cartoon is the best superhero show ever made. Neal Adams once said that he couldn't believe they were making movies about the Hal Jordan Green Lantern and not John Stewart, who is the version of the character that's most well known to audiences currently, because of that show.

I Own Me - You Own You

Deep down, everyone realizes we're programmed and that pit in our collective stomach is growing the more and more we ignore our nature. Watching terrible movies is one byproduct of ignoring our nature.

The Rubber Studios

Awesome video! Now I know why I keep being drawn to the cinema

Nite-Mite

5y↑3

By the way, since you said you still have a laundry list of modern superhero movies to watch, it makes sense that you're a little behind on the DC movies being too dark and cynical.
The DC movies have sort of learned their lesson since Wonder Woman and Aquaman were closer to the superhero movies you prefer, as well as the MCU movies. But even then, you also mentioned how even the MCU movies are rather formulaic and predictable, and Wonder Woman and Aquaman are no exceptions, but I still found them fun.

mytruepower2

49w

Chase Bandit

Really like your videos Mr. Ager. I actually enjoyed all 3 of Raimi’s Spider-Man movies. I hold Spider-Man 3 on the same level as Return of the Jedi, yet I hear many people hate on the film for its quirkiness and bad effects, even though the first 2 had those elements as well. I liked it for the characters reconciling each other and its Facing the Dragon theme by Robert Moore through Venom. Besides the action, what else didn’t work for you in Spider-Man 3?

nigel Donaldson

32w

Someone/s in Hollywood, saw "a gap in the market" for a return to this kind of film, since those buildings came down in New York, together with realising what could be achieved with Computer graphics at that time.
the super hero concept, is of course an American thing, & there has always been a certain...patriotism about them SUPER MAN being the best example with his flag colored costume (which is no coincidence) this is one of the reasons for the appeal of "Super hero" films, they also tap our imaginations & aspirations. sometimes as both children and adults.

John Chang

Key point about humour... it's actually being used more often in Marvel movies, I keep hearing friends talk about those movies in terms of humour rather than the story or visuals (which, for me says how poor those elements are). However, when I was watching the likes of GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY, SPIDERMAN: HOMECOMING and THE AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR, I found the humour of those to be quite poor myself, sometimes lame. KICK-ASS and DEADPOOL 1 & 2 were okay for humour. I've always got the feeling that the filmmakers are desperately trying to use humour to compensate for heroes being too calm in what would've been terrifying fights, and storylines that clearly lack tension as we all know superheroes must stay alive for franchises, and even if they die, they can still come back in future movies somehow like Brian did in FAMILY GUY.

Also good point about cynicism. Some films and shows like RICK AND MORTY are tapping into that very point.

And in case you're doing more studies of superheroes (particularly the marketing aspects), notice that the BLACK PANTHER and THE AVENGERS INFINITY WAR posters have actors' faces fully shown, even though Black Panther, Spiderman, Iron Man and Captain America typically wear their masks. I suppose Black Panther's was understandable considering how gimpy his mask looked.

stereomike111

5y↑1

Can Tron be considered a superhero film? Flynn is basically a bit superhuman - or superprogram - for most of the movie.
Did you catch the recent Venom film with Tom Hardy?

theproplady

5y↑20

Jackson Wright

5y↑11

soyboys: check, SJW: check, Weeby thumbnail: Check. yep, this is definitely a you tube movie criticism comment section

Luqas99

5y↑4

the proplady

1: true, to an extent.
2: also true, to an extent.
3: very true.
4: grow up.
5: no, what is often called the Bronze Age of comics began in the '80s, with The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen et al. Writers wanted to use comics like any other medium, to explore mature themes. This turned out very popular, partly because those themes carry emotional weight that readers were unused to, and partly, I admit for pretentious reasons you allude to, but you're not a psychiatrist, don't reach.
6: there is no such thing as an SJW, other than in your head. If you don't know how to describe something without resorting to meaningless buzzwords from Reddit, then don't.

Yggdrasil

You make a lot of really good points, but I like to know what soyboy and SJW means in this context before I completely agree and points 4 and 6.

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Britannia Pacific

5y↑1

What do you think of Jim Carrey’s movie: the mask? It’s derived from a dark adult themed series, but was supposedly toned down into making it a “superhero” movie to appeal to teenagers alongside adults.

Collative Learning

5y↑1

I've never watched it all the way through so not sure. Funny how the genre gets so fuzzy at the edges

Davy Devilution

4y↑2

X-Men 2 (2003)
X-Men Days of Future Past (2014)
Spider-Man 2 (2004)
Iron Man (2008)

For me, these are all very entertaining Superhero Movies !

Pain Body

Movies today are made by the people who read them back in the day, as opposed to the 70's and 80's so naturally the films matured with the audience.

TheWarrrenator

One of the issues is that if we are aware of Joseph Campbell's Monomyth, Hero's Cycle theory, then we are watching the same movie, over and over, just the signifiers of the characters change and often, not by much, just a few details. Also we need to be aware of the maturity level of the typical American film goer as a cultural factor. For example, I had no idea Doctor Who is a kids show in England! Over here, it is considered legitimate science fiction. I do agree that the popularity of super hero movies reflects the audience's lack of agency in their lives, however the appeal of these movies is completely subjective. I liked The Dark Knight. I liked Black Panther. I liked Man of Steel, but I am aware that I as an audience brought foreknowledge of Superman into that. I always did think a Superman story as sci fi romp would work since he is after all, from outer space. At the time I had recently lost my dad so that factor of the story touched me in a way that other people whose parents are alive may not experience. I will say this though, these films gave me a greater appreciation for the art of comic books to create narrative and cultural archetypes, but they didn't do anything to increase the appreciation of the art of film. I liked them, but they didn't change my life like some films had such as A Clockwork Orange, which provided me a great deal of perspective on the nature of free will.

agnesjaui

5y↑3

You're working through some interesting questions, but if you want to analyze movies in terms of their popular appeal, I think it is essential to differentiate between movies that worked with audiences and those that did not. In particular, "Batman v. Superman" and "Justice League" were not successful movies. They aren't examples of what contemporary audiences want, they're examples of what those audiences reject. Also, if you're going back into early TV live-action superheroes, I recommend looking at the old TV series "The Incredible Hulk" (1977-1982) as being worth considering. It aired for 5 seasons, making it long-running enough to be interesting from a cultural perspective. "The Amazing Spider-man" (1978), which you do mention, was an effort to replicate the success of the Hulk series, but was not successful, and so is of less cultural interest.

Collative Learning

Batman vs Superman was very successful financially. I'm not saying it's great but any studio would be happy with the return it had.

I loved the TV Hulk series when I was a kid. And the 70's Spiderman films are a guilty pleasure for me, if only for the comedy value.

agnesjaui

5y↑1

BvS opened well, because audience expectations were extremely high. But the box office plunged in the second weekend, in the 4th worst decline ever for a movie opening over $100m. It was a movie where hopes were for $600m U.S. (The Dark Knight did $540m, The Avengers did $620m) but it ended up struggling to barely half that. The consensus in the industry was that it misfired. Subsequently, efforts were made to change the tone for Justice League, but that movie was too far along for a major course correction. Snyder was let go, and Whedon brought in to try and fix it. The result, however, was a movie with weird tonal swings. That and the enormous damage done by BvS, caused it to do only $220m U.S., even worse than BvS, causing the entire Warner Brothers DC universe plan to collapse.

agnesjaui

5y↑1

I think you’ve got a good project here, and some interesting thoughts. And the Nolan Batman films are described pretty accurately by you as dark and morally ambiguous, but in trying to push the “dark superhero” analysis forward in time based on BvS and JL, you’re talking about a dying trend. All the vitality and cultural impact right now is with the MCU films, which are the biggest box office money machine ever but which are not notably dark. Anyway, make no mistake: I enjoy your work and find it unfailingly interesting, whether I agree with it or not!

Alex

Adults are not supossed to watch super heroes movies. They're kidults. Great video!

Mandrakos

Quick question for ya: what were your feelings regarding the Daredevil TV show? I know that's a show, and not a movie, but I'm just curious. I know it has the whole "dark and gritty" feel to it, but at least that's because it's heavily based on the Frank Miller run of the Daredevil comics, and not just because that's the "edgy" thing to do.

unfortunatebeam

There's nothing edgy about that. Futile attempts at making this goofy and childish superhero and comic book material "edgy" is just laughable and pathetic. There's a few exceptions, like Watchmen, the graphic novel not the movie.

Estamio

Brad T

3y↑1

Rob, I'm wondering what you thought of 2006's Superman Returns? I reckon it was a quite beautiful and thoughtful film, accompanied by one of the most gorgeous soundtracks ever. Uniquely, Bryan Singer was given creative free-reign over a vast budget, and Snyder's mindless smash-a-thons have produced utter tedium ever since. It's a shame. I'd LOVE to see your analysis.

For a refresher, look up the amazing scene of Routh and Bosworth flying over the Metropolis nightscape, set to John Ottman's spellbindingly magical How Could You Leave Us? theme.