Fields of Industry is from Lansing, MI. They play minimal and often ambient… Read Full Bio ↴Fields of Industry is from Lansing, MI. They play minimal and often ambient songs, with a tendency to vacillate dramatically in volume. The band was originally a bedroom recording project of Joshua Barton, self-releasing cassettes starting in 1999. From 2000-2002, Fields of Industry performed throughout Michigan as a full band, while Barton recorded Fields of Industry, the self-titled full length, himself. In 2003, Eric Gallippo, also of Man At Arms and Joel Schrauben, also of Bear Mountain Picnic, became steady members of the band. Barton and Gallippo recorded and self-released the 3-song EP, Dogs, in 2005. Two Dogs, A Television was released digitally by Cerberus Records and on CD by the band's own imprint, Arts vs Entertainment, in 2008.

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01I've Seen a Light3:34

02Fiction Writer5:36

PT5M36S

Fields of Industry

03I'm not afraid of a fight3:02

04No Relief5:34

05Point of Contention2:51

10we'll always have the oasis2:49

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Fiction Writer
Fields of Industry Lyrics

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The lyrics are frequently found in the comments by searching or by filtering for lyric videos

Most interesting comments from YouTube:

g well66v2

I feel like you can definitely grab nuggets of nifty insight from this. I suspect a lot of people see intelligent authority figures and have an inherent bias to insult and demean what they're saying in order to make themselves feel bigger/better, rather than engage with the content of the video honestly. The very first response was pretty clear "Pull your audience in by writing like a real person would.

A reader wants to feel like they're pulled into a story as told by an interesting or fun, charismatic storyteller.

If you are reading your own writing and cannot say "Oh the person telling this story is fun/interesting" then the chances are that you have an enormous problem on your hands.

The 8 lines anecdote provides us with some real insight into the thoughts of the people who are in a position to turn down or sell our material.

There's also discussion of audience manipulation and tricks used to do it and this is all in the first 10 mins.

Plenty of valid criticisms are in the comment section but some of them are just so bitter and insulting.

Emmett Ferguson

I’M IN A WRITER’S RUT RIGHT NOW

So I’m doing this instead…

I prefer not to call it writer’s block because a block suggests there is some obstacle or another preventing my progress. It makes me feel as if I’m coming up with this imaginary force that is stopping me from any progress. When I think about what actually happens when I’m not writing (even though I want to), a rut makes more sense than a block.

The hunter’s out there might laugh because a “rut” also has to do with the mating season for certain animals like deer, and sheep where the males get extra aggressive.

But I think a rut is more empowering. How? Let’s take a look at the definition according to thefreedictionary.com: rut, n. An uninspired routine or pattern of behavior that one continues unthinkingly or because change is difficult.

And it makes me ask myself… Is anyone or anything really blocking me?

Or am I just going through these unproductive thoughts about my ideas, skill, ability, or words?

The answer is usually the latter if I’m doing the difficult task of being honest. And other times, the rut might come from having to make the tough…

Decision On What to Write About

Let’s say I’ve got 12 ideas for what to write about. I’m sure most writers have been faced with this challenge more than just procrastination. But suddenly my mind races with all the different combinations of words and audiences those 12 ideas could appeal to. That’s a lot of information to process!

12 ideas multiplied by 12 * 3 or even 5 different headlines, multiplied by the number of platforms to upload it to, multiplied by 10 or more doubts for every one of those ideas. That’s over 36,000 (12 * 12 * 5 * 5 * 10) little pieces of information to process. The mind is an amazing thing.

Of course it’s bound to feel like a “blockage” like trying to flush an entire roll of paper towels. But is it really a “block?” It’s a tough question to answer. So I asked myself…

Am I just unwilling to put in the work to go through those 36000 possibilities? Am I choosing to sit and scroll social media and watch Ozzy Man or Viva La Dirt League videos because the work of making the decision is much more difficult?

Writing is definitely challenging mental work. That’s for sure!

And I spent too much time wondering about what type of article I should write today, but then I decided to do this…

My Solution (For Today)

So the solution I came up with wasn’t really my solution at all. I came across this solution many years ago when I first read one of James Altucher’s blog posts about becoming an idea machine. Becoming an idea machine consists of the daily exercise of writing down 10 ideas per day. And the idea stuck with me.

There are large online communities that have been built around the concept of becoming an idea machine! And I know he’s not the first person to come up with the idea. I think I read somewhere that Benjamin Franklin used to do 20 ideas per day!

And you can apply this idea to boost your creative thinking skills, generate business solutions, develop new products, write new stories, and so much more…

So this morning, I came up with an idea and started The Ideator Journal, and here are my first 15 ideas.

15 Ideas for Lists of Ideas

1. 13 Ideas to Stay Motivated During COVID-19 Quarantine
2. 433 Journaling Ideas
3. 19 Ideas for Motivational Quotes I Created
4. 32 Blog Titles that Are Still Available as .com’s
5. 58 Selfie Ideas
6. 25 Email subject lines to test to see if you get responses from executives
7. 93 Ways to get the attention of the super-wealthy
8. 83 Ideas for philanthropy or non-profit businesses
9. 10 Copywriting ideas for fundraising landing pages
10. 1000 random ideas
11. 33 Challenges I’ve come across and how to overcome them
12. 21 Times I failed
13. 43 Marketing Ideas for Your Website
14. 63 Mobile App Ideas
15. 12 Basic research ideas on topics I’ve never learned before

That got a bit challenging around idea 7. But you get the point!

If you found this helpful or interesting or both, stay tuned for future updates and check out: https://mailchi.mp/theideatorjournal/newsletter

All comments from YouTube:

Philip Mann

5y↑562

Good writing makes you want to read more, it's as simple as that.

Arif L

@Portland Goose I'd normally hold myself back from pedant-mode - but this 𝘪𝘴 a writing-centric thread!
So - I think you might mean 'simple' here - not simplistic. Simplistic is actually meant as a negative term, to denote 'dumbed-down too far', or the equivalent!

Nonono

Dont tell me you wanted to read more of Joyce Ulises, because i dont believe you

Mesolithic Man

@LizzieB Kennedy
You're wrong. You can read anything on any subject if the author's ideas, his line of attack draws you in. Beautifully crafted sentences are the icing on the cake. An author with nothing to say is not worth reading.

LizzieB Kennedy

@Anna Maledon Picture Book Author If we didn't read for beautifully crafted sentences then we would only read stories that resonate. Across all genres, beautifully crafted sentences keep me (and many many others who've written about it) reading about cricket, or agriculture, or how to separate the tangled USB cords. Please don't speak on behalf of most people. You are not them.

Reginald Forthright

Haha, not at all. That would be popular writing, or perhaps successful writing. Good writing, in contrast, is like chewing through a stack of telephone books and washing them down with a glass of concrete. At the end of each page the reader should be drenched in sweat, despondent, and on the verge of catatonia.

25 More Replies...

Oscar Sanchez

7y↑468

Just don't let the pressure of living up to "writer identity" overtake you. Your worth isn't contingent on whether or not you're a succesful writer. Your worth is beyond talent or success; the validation of literary praise is welcome but don't make it your pride-supply. You serve the craft; the craft doesn't serve you. And the craft, in turn, serves others. C.S. Lewis said it well: "Child, to say the very thing you really mean, the whole of it, nothing more or less or other than what you really mean; that's the whole art and joy of words." ^^

Red Sol

I like the way you think, the act is the goal so use your time enjoying yourself. Recognition comes and goes. Passion burns on.

Elizabeth Brown

Thank you so much for your encouraging comnent. Its a tough call climbing somebody else's ladder when they systematically remove all the rungs above the first one and shout down at you from on high to 'just climb' or, Don't even bother to try because you could never reach where I am' . 💔Sigh sigh sigh... 🙄🥀🙏

Elizabeth Brown

2y↑1

I can relate to that. How do new writers know when an editor is good.

Joe Combs

3y↑4

I once heard a student ask Stephen King for a definition of a successful writer.
King replied, "If you write something, and someone pays you for it, and the check doesn't bounce, and you pay the water bill -- you are a successful writer."
Many who earn money with their writing are scorned by the literary crowd as not being "literary enough." They look down on those who write for mass consumption.
My view? Write because you have to.
But revise because nothing is more exciting than finding a more concise way to say exactly what you mean, nothing more & nothing less.

JD Bhatts

3y↑1

wonderful. i would suggest a book to you called the war of art by steven pressfield. you may find a pdf online. greatest book on artistry, writing included. Do check it out.

7 More Replies...

evee

3y↑122

As an editor, I completely agree with everything they said. As a writer, there is not a single actionable piece of advice in here. I can't believe how useless this video is.

Emelia Jade

2y↑7

Right, basically "have a good voice. Good luck."

shantihealer

2y↑7

Absolutely. A pretty useless discussion unless you're interested in the thought processes of editors. For actionable pieces of advice on how to write it would have made more sense to gather some writers together. One of the best pieces of advice I ever found came from Maxim Gorky. A book about him said:
'He was very particular about style. In his conversations and correpondences with young writers he showed his powers of observation and criticism: 'You have used the verb "to be" seven times on the same page. This is inadmissable!'

Mayeur000Donz

2y↑24

Thanks for saving me my time.

Ray Jones

2y↑4

Lmao

Brisa Rodriguez

6y↑23

I totally have to agree with reading the first paragraphs. I have read many books that I lose interest in the 1st chapter I have also read some books that draw me to the story right away from beginning to end I find it interesting. this was a great video. my essay is due by tomorrow and this helped me get my thoughts together.

Bunny Lang

5y↑31

I feel, Charlotte Gill, gave the best response in the beginning of this video as she spoke about what draws her in, what causes her to lose herself. I find the same is true for me. Can I forget who I am, where I am, and am I losing myself in your (writer's) reality? I want to. Surely, I want to. I also feel, if you want to be a writer, and it is so easy, in the sense of, Amazon, and others, that we can now self-publish and therefore, are easily washed away in a stream.

Helene Trøstrup

6y↑10

Fundamentally, yes. I think we are all partially responsible for what gets published.
If we stopped paying attention to poorly written or very dull books chances are they wouldn't be published at this rate because they couldn't earn enough money.

I feel like I've unearthed a small treasure whenever I find a story that is neither poorly written, dull or with an overused plot. May it be professionally edited or not.
I honestly don't feel like I am that hard to satisfy.. the problem is probably that I have no clue where to look and whatever gem I find I stumble across out of luck more than anything.

Kandi Russell

4y↑13

Thank you for the video. She is correct, good writing takes multiple drafts and lots of time.

Jay L.

5y↑14

In reading screenplays it's called the "hook". Something catches your attention, interest, etc., and you want to know more about the story, plot, and how characters go through the journey.

Kizzabell

2y↑6

8 lines does make sense in this context. If writing is bad you could tell quickly.
But lots of readers are commenting they stop reading a book after 8 sentences. Published books are different and have already gone through some quality control.
It's more about whether the book is for you or not.

Ruminator

7y↑6

It's about the energy created by presenting something that must be resolved. The question or tension then drives the story forward.

Jackson Wheeles

3y↑2

I don’t think voice is that hard to pin down, just that it’s a big concept. I think it’s just the perspective of the author. What they show is just as important as what they don’t. If a writer chooses to show grief in a simple way, like reminiscing about a favorite restaurant with an ex lover and remembering how they introduced you to new foods, and you choose to order something new, showing that yes the relationship is over, but you became better. Or, you could show the character crying and eating ice cream. Voice is just perspective, and perspective can show in a what a writer chooses to show.

The ADS Agency

6y↑1

"When I'm transported to another world...and I forget that I'm reading, I just feel immersed in that world, to me that is good writing." Love that. Would love for you to come weigh in with your expert tips / advice on our Facebook LIVE chat coming up Jan. 16, 9pm EST on our Facebook page. It's all about the very best tips on how to write your first book - with award-winning ghostwriter Dennis Ross. Hope you can make it!

Mohit Chaudhary

6y↑2

This is an excellent and very revealing video. I earlier used to think that for English speakers (natives), it was easier to become a writer; I didn't know that they too go through many hardships to get published. I am an aspiring writer from India, but unlike some of the veterans like one of our guests, I never thought of making it as a full-fledged career; I am of the opinion that it should be pursued after having a regular job because of the risk and competition involved in this market full of writers. Everybody writes these days!

Kizzabell

2y↑1

I think it's something people do in their spare time or during a period where they are unemployed.
Once you have written a good book that gets published and does well you can make it a career.

Gatekeeper - a meeting of giants

8y↑886

To the question about whether a book is great because it's read by a LOT of people: There are more people eating McDonald hamburgers that Filet Mignon - but does that make it "good cooking"?

Gurjinder Singh

@Joshua Sheridan If you think KFC or McDonald is bad, you should eat the street food in India. Full of oil, sugar/spices and god know what else that always makes me vomit. Compared to that McDonald is broccoli.

Tom Shaw

@Christopher Henderson You clearly have not read Ulysses

Tom Shaw

@Christopher Henderson There are 300 million teenage girls at your door telling you the Harry Potter series is 11/10, do you flush your Gogol down the loo?

Carmen Perez

Heh. Brilliant.

12thDecember

Agree. 50 Shades of Grey was/is a huge success, but I couldn't get past the first few pages without rolling my eyes. Same for Twilight. Poor writing is the equivalent of junk food; many people just eat it up and thinks it's great.

59 More Replies...

The Hidden Bible

3y↑2

You can tell if a singer has a beautiful voice within 3 seconds. If she has proper technique within 10 seconds. But it takes a couple of minutes to see if she has a spectrum of technique and emotion. You cannot tell if something is great in seconds. Only if it isn't great.

Michael Lombardi-Nash

4y↑8

I love editors and being edited; I like to give them as little to do as possible, but I notice that my writing is much better when edited.

dirtywashedupsparkle

6y↑3

Thanks for the informative content of this discussion, but sadly as one just getting into this field it just depresses me to hear this field is just going the way it is. In the future I think it is the rich who survive longest, once the smaller fish get swallowed up or die from enforced charity work. It seems all the arts are or are becoming devalued for the sake of commercial voracity. It sucks.

Hee Ho

2y↑2

it's pretty fascinating to see an intellectual have such a hard time grasping the idea of low substance/loud headline journalism.

It's not his fault at all, it's just so against his perception of the world and his profession as he sees it. He's incapable of seeing capitalism and predatory marketing as the key thing killing his industry and art.

Tim Houser

4y↑78

How editors know if your writing is good - for a couple of minutes. Then they go off and talk about how editors create articles that trick you into reading the story with a misleading lead - exactly what they are doing with this video.

The video is not about how editors know if your writing is good, only the first few minutes is.

What these folks, in print and video, are actually doing is taking from the good will they would otherwise have with their audience. When that tank is empty they lose their audience and then wonder why they cannot get the clicks they need to, as they put it, pay the bills.

This video is a great example of what these folks are complaining about. In the speakers' defense they did not title the article, but some editor did.

sophiah xazz

😂😂 okay this got me

Evan Hodge

3y↑1

You are funny.

vinny142

3y↑13

11:00 "You cannot predict what's going to be interesting"

True, and editors get it wrong a lot*. The best they can do is see if the writing is similar to what has been succesful in the past, in *their target audience. Being an editor is knowing what your audience likes and making sure they get that. It has nothing to do with magic powers or being good writers themselves, it's marketing.

Yank ee

If you’re a short story reader, an author named Paul Bovino has a collection of a half dozen or so very powerfully themed short stories on Amazon in an anthology entitled “Something for the Subway.” I remember being greatly moved by the stories when I first read them many years ago, but I understand that there’s a more current, updated edition.

Jeremiah Donaldson

7y↑10

lmao omg the look on Charlotte's face when Victor talks about some of the stuff he does. Especially when talking about the word pay rate and patron stuff. She likes him as much as I do.

UAP101

I enjoyed this! Many great points by all three participants. I think within one chapter it's fairly easy to figure out whether the book is worth reading. Or, at least whether it's worth continuing to read it. What's really a bummer is to get a few chapters in, say a hundred pages, and then come to the conclusion that the writer doesn't even know where she's going with the story. That hurts!

I'm a writer, and if it were not for the internet, I'd not have been nearly as successful. I wrote something this morning that I hope is inspiring to other writers - How to Make It as a Writer... (https://www.vernlovic.com/how-to-make-it-as-a-writer/) No paywall or ads there. Cheers and thanks for this video, I'm passing it on to others. :P

Speak Write Play in English

2y↑1

The editor is also one of the most important people in the author's life.

g well66v2

Chris Bonnett

4y↑2

The eight line rule is right. Either you can spin the yarn or you can't. The reader in a book store will read a paragraph or two and either buy or pass.

BillyBoysing

Interesting. We really need to upgrade the Artistry in literature!

Wen Of Zen

Thank you for this video. I agree with Gatekeeper. The internet is indeed full of words; however, those words are often either the fast food of literature or the taco truck. BTW, if you write for a news outlet, please read the story before you publish it.

Elizabeth Dunne

4y↑3

Charlotte explained it well 4 minutes in.

R. Brooks

6y↑192

If you want a clear explanation, don't ask an editor.

Rena Believer

The second one 😂

Portland Goose

@Anna Maledon Picture Book Author 🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏🥇🥇🥇

Native Chique

😂😂

Barefoot Prof

Oooohhh. I got it. Transport readers into another world. Check.

Anna Maledon Picture Book Author

5y↑23

Don't be so mean! Ha ha. This speech hasn't been edited yet for clarity.

Jeanet Henning

5y↑1

I do think the "can anyone write" and "is it good because a lot of people read it" are two completely different things. I believe almost anyone can study and practice writing to the point of becoming a good writer but just because a book is loved and read by millions or billions of people, doesn't make it a good book, the same way a book not being read by a lot of people doesn't necessarily make it a bad book, look at Fifty shades of Grey. It's accessibility and the fact that it reached a market that was previously unexplored is in many ways what made it the success it is. But if you take for example Harry Potter and were to leave that unpublished, it doesn't make it any less of a good book just because it can't reach the massive audience that it might've reached otherwise. I hope I'm making sense. :-P

Donovan Kabalka

6y↑3

This is a perfect microcosm of the intersection of classical nonfiction writing and editors who are pruning and hybridizing content for the actual customer: the advertiser. Journalism died in the very early hours of the 21st century when newspapers failed to evolve and fully succumbed to the toxic nature of ad sales. The reader is merely chum, something to be manipulated for revenue streams in which to attract sharks to swim. It’s disgusting and these editors should feel bad about themselves and what they’re participating in.

Polite Q

7y↑15

I've noticed a tremendous decline in article writing quality in the last 10 years. So many spelling and grammar errors, even on the newspaper sites. Not sure about the print version. Just another sign that the end is near!
This video is not about "good writing", it's about the collapse of the writing industry thanks once again to the internet.

Bryan M

5y↑1

I have noticed the same thing. When I read articles from the news outlets I catch at least one error per article, sometimes more. How can they have passed editorial muster?

Lazarus Gray

5y↑1

I've written over 1000 articles that have been published on the net (mostly via a defunct site called contentcurrent) but they went under because sites like freelancer turned copywriting into whatever the lowest bidder would put up with. The publishing industry is a fucking shambles now... but there are still ways to retain integrity as a writer if you research and follow the right channels for publication.

SD

Publishing is a business. Period. The goal is to make money. The readers buy the book. You as a writer doesn’t get paid until they do.

To say that the editor represents the reader is the best statement I’ve ever heard.

Xtra Delite

The A #1 Golden Rule about writing: there are no rules! Oh, and also, you have to take into consideration the average reading level of the population. Which is about an 11th grade/16 y/o level in this country (USA). I know, I used to volunteer at an adult literacy organization.

Patrick Brennan

3y↑2

What IS it that makes writing good ??

Saul Bellow said it’s “delight”, and the “hidden musical note in the first few paragraphs” that must be stayed true to, or you’ll lose the reader’s interest

His Hocopolitso piece on YouTube is a CLASSIC (he reads to and talks with the audience)

A Brit and his bike in Poland

Very interesting on many fronts, especially listening to conversations about multi media and the power of the internet in 2014. Now its almost 2022 and the internet is out of control!

DC Le

2y↑1

Sadly most of the times I know whether the writing is good with the first line, but it does take about 8 lines to be sure whether I want to continue reading.

The Hidden Bible

3y↑1

She's right. The audacity to say you can tell if something is good in the first 5 sentences. A couple of pages are needed for that.

Rabidcolombian

He’s just relaying a story and her own experience

Rod Pemberton

That's why I always have a problem believe books and movies when they says it's based on a true story all because editors add on their own part of the story.

Mimi Wilson

7y↑14

All you have to do is read the latest top books (same goes with movies) to realize that it has become a good old boys and girls club. I personally look to Amazon and self publishers for my reading these days. Regarding movies, there are tons and tons of great independent films and short films on you tube. Independent books and film take away the limitations of only getting the editors likes and dislikes. (That being said, these two seem like fair and likable folks)

Bestinyourgirl

5y↑1

If mainstream fiction was all that one was able to procure, we as a civilization would be done for. Reading would not be worthwhile. Bad authors are published for bad readers. Improve reading skill and you bolster the writing in turn.

KnowJesusKnowPeace

6y↑2

The organizers brought two complimentary guests. The result was interesting. Well done.

SRT KOVA

I actually believe good writing matters don't get me confused with a good story but sm1 can have an awesome story but have the writing and delivery not catch the reader and pull them in

ABC123

2y↑1

This talk hits hard in 2021. All of the worst trends Ian Brown pointed out are now standard practice in publishing and journalism.

GatAtTube

Even the best story must be written well, which is why I am not surprised that they only need to read 8 lines. Mainly because, as a reader, I often reject after reading much less.

Melissa Beckham

17:20 : Excellent point. Readers shouldn't be clicking. Falling in the trap is to continue to set it.

Carle Flores

Not only readers but as general consumers we have responsibility since what we do, what we buy is like a vote for "what I really think is good is this so marketers, please take a note", and that's exactly what they do.

David N

Certainly the lack of editing is overtly apparent in web published articles, blog posts, and self published writing. It's hard to get through much of the writing in this digital age when there is a rush to publish. It's not simply grammatical errors but much of the content is uninspired recycled news stories.

Joy Brautigam

7y↑6

As a reader, when I choose a book to read, I only read a few opening lines to know if I want to continue.

Kizzabell

You could be missing out on some good books. I at least give it a few chapters. I usually read digital books and I love that they let you read about 40 pages in the sample. If I get to the end of the sample and I'm still on the fence about whether it's worth buying, it's not the book for me. When I love a book I click "buy" straight away coz I can't wait to read the rest of the sentence.

There was a book I really enjoyed but I had to skip whole sections The author died before the book was edited. So they published it as is. They could have cut about 500 pages. But I'm so glad I read it.

Triwealth

4y↑1

A great story can supersede great writing. Good sentence and paragraph and story structure is, for the most part, objective. The content of a story, and style choice, is when subjectivity arises.
I intend to be a world famous writer, regardless of what these people in this video dictate as good writing. For me to be the best I have to know how to write. Right? I have to know how to tell a story, right? So, I declared it for myself. No competition. True art, and artists, are immortal 😌

quinktap

3y↑1

And Janet walked down to the beach clutching her cushion. Cup of coffee in hand, sipping as she went. The syrupy taste of coffee and whisky coursing through her. Warming her blood. Lifting her from the crap she endures daily. Knowing. Realizing that none care. All that remains is a random cushion on a beach and a coffee cup. Who would possibly know?

mannies Reaction channel

6y↑1

These upcoming ebook writers are getting abundance of success, and recognition, now these days.

Errol Michael Phillips

7y↑212

"People don't want to pay anymore". Same in the music industry. It seems that art is losing ground all around.

b six twelve

Nothing pays properly. That’s part of the problem of our times.

Christopher Ridolfi

3y↑1

@Jay Ferguson Well said.

Jeff Pena

4y↑1

@seigeengine the grass roots music industry has been decimated. People feel offended at the idea of buying a album, musicians have to tour non stop to make any kind of money and its usually still at a loss. So many talented musicians and bands that get traction but still have day jobs because now producing music comes at a loss, exploitative industries like Spotify hold a near monopoly on the streaming and pay artists pennies for songs that get plenty of play, no one buys albums anymore, that use to be a major source of income for even local up and coming bands. Groups like Rush, Metallica, and even lesser known bands like Budgie, King Crimson, Ten Years After, etc. were able to focus on full time music careers for decades and earn a real living. Income inequality among musicians is greater than its ever been since streaming, theres bands that get hundreds of thousands to millions of plays and are still working day jobs and breaking even through tours and merch sales to recoup the loss of actually recording good music which costs alot of time and money.

Junior von Claire

Pepe Lopez Waldron That’s ok. I don’t need to know. You might have just answered, but forget it.

Pepe Lopez Waldron

@Junior von Claire read through the comments.

19 More Replies...

Check Sumfird

3y↑1

All is mind control. Channeling. Steering.

All authors do it.
Genre (popular) authors employ a more "democratic" (psychiatric), accessible, approachable neurological operation to commandeer their audience.
Literary (aesthetician) authors employ a tighter, "literal" or "dogmatic" (theocratically oriented) neurological treatment to direct their audience.

Ultimately, you can convey sequences of mental activity through writing. The more competent the author, the more effective the work in allowing the reader to process a similar virtual variant of the authors' mind capture. The more congruent the encoding, the greater the claim of that author on that reader.

apope06

6y↑9

Much of what I read in prestigious literary magazines is technically and structure beautiful...but boring and forgetful. Literary mags these days are so obsessed with craft that they ignore a quality story. Its why these mags are no longer mainstream. Who do you know reads literature mags other than wannabe writers?

Dan Vol

Media has always been about writing what sells. The issue is more with what the readers want--free content that panders to their preconceptions.

Emmett Ferguson

Maxwell Kina

2y↑1

Who else is here in 2022 researching how the media lost all credibility? It appears they've already chosen the wrong fork in 2014. I must go back further, the journey continues lol

Sukhbir Sekhon

7y↑1

Such a big subject but I thought they covered it quite well. Raised perhaps more questions than had answers but still interesting. I still can't understand how a book like ulysses could be classed in academic circles as a classic when I don't believe more than 10 people in the world have actually read it. But you've got to have it on your bookshelf for academic street cred.
Thought they could have talked about censorship a bit.
In the end editors are useful for starting out writers because sometimes writers may not be able to see the wood for the trees but the writer as someone said should over time learn to develop his inner voice whether it is popular or even good.

Evan Hodge

How exquisite they are. LOL. Literary Journalism is hilarious. If you have that much time ... it's not reporting, it's a novel. Get out of the media and be a writer. You will have to learn to think of course. Then you need something to say that is worth hearing. Good writing gets read aloud.

LJV Films

This made me more comfortable to revisit my stories

B. Terence Harwick

7y↑11

I enjoyed this discussion because each of these participants communicated some insight and somewhat different,
yet also some shared notions of the process stated unpretentiously -- yet
ultimately mysterious element that also makes for good writing.
I found the discussion worth while listening.

Yello Duzzit

At the end of the day the consumer does determine whats consumed... and we do need to exercise our power as consumers more often, more determinedly, more fervently... thats big facts!!

Jireh Ponce De Leon

Aspiring writers trying to write even without formal or basic learning & knowledge about the do's and dont's however by the help of internet somehow manifest the optimistic feeling to write about something. God Bless technology

Linda Harrison

7y↑36

Just because something is "on the internet," it doesn't mean that it WASN'T edited. Surely people throw stuff on the web all the time without editing it, but you can't globally say that if it's on the web, then it hasn't been edited.

seigeengine

6y↑4

They didn't say otherwise Linda.

The Pond

7y↑39

I just want the next wave of famous books to come out already

BlightBreed Official

5y↑1

There’s always a wave of popular books coming out. It’s just not as prominent these days, unless it’s a new series from a huge author like J.K Rowling or George R.R Martin. Game of thrones is still actually being written and is super popular. TV series and funny enough, comics have started to take over more and more. So, there’s that I guess haha.

Seth Wallace

7y↑2

My book will hopefully be published this March, so there you go :')

mantid

7y↑6

I'll get on it

Kenneth Carvalho

4y↑2

Its a worrisome thought to come to the realization that a brilliant writer could be shot down if editors are not able to understand their work.

suzanne farrington

I think it may also be heartening to realize that a rejection, therefore, should have less sting. Legendary writers have received hundreds before they became acclaimed.

Kristoff Morgan

The concept of placing your stories for clicks on a newspaper webpage is ancient in concept. Now it is to deceminate the stories on the social platforms with granular social engineering adjusting the title summary image to be most appealing to the end consumer/user. This is evolving to the point now that the original story content is also being adjusted to suit the needs of industry and user preferences based off of complex meta data analysis. This process is becoming more nuanced and sophisticated as the cost from large scaled networks is creating economies of scale in regards to content manipulation. In fact the process is approaching the point to which the writer for most realtime feeds will be AI automated or assisted to a large degree. This is in keeping with granular marketing and behavioral programming and will lead to many interesting developments in society such as nation state network firewall protection for advesarial groups with AI backends

Cause Effect

this is depressing but they are right in so many ways.

Melissa Alvarado Sierra

7y↑3

The times have changed and digital content is now king, for better or worse. I say let's create digital platforms that publish works of high caliber. As readers, let's click on quality and not on meaningless fluff.

Andy Snadden

3y↑1

When I want to listen to people talk about literature I go to "BBC In Our Time : Literature". It's an incredibly rich and rewarding podcast series. This conversation is dull as dishwater.

Nelson Chereta

7y↑29

Click bait is not a new phenomenon, newspaper headlines were very deliberately written to grab people's attention. And it's not like newspapers weren't worried about their sales and TV programs about their ratings. Every form of entertainment wants to get as much attention from the public as possible.

Mateus Vieira

Huh...

Music Research Strategies

6y↑1

Thank you for sharing this!

Xtra Delite

It’s about free speech. Advertisers have no say in editorial content. If they pull out over a story, or cover story, then it’s too bad. It’s unfortunate that the artistry of writing capitulates more and more to advertisers.

Gordon Franklin Terry

2y↑1

Just listening to the two talk; The White Males are all direct and dictatorial and the female woman of color is kind of downed-out. It Really depends on the editor's gender and ethnicity.
We need more female editors

ALI SUROOR

2y↑1

The heart remains young regardless of age
The spirit remains more vibrant and active the more optimism increases
Meditation is the language of the mature mind.

ALI SUROOR

Free Being

7y↑79

It's ironic to me that Victor Dwyer, an editor, is sooooo wordy.

thumpdragsounds

savage lol

Gonzo the great

I spilled my milk reading this.
Touché for you, good man.

Jay Ferguson

6y↑1

Do as I say, not as I do?

Too Much Candor

7y↑2

Only had he edited this video too

Jujubar Williams

7y↑5

Yes, good point, when writers learn (or do not get published) to express ideas succinctly. I know you cannot edit a forum (unless perhaps it's mainstream media). I wanted to hear more from Charlotte's point of view. Still, an interesting insight of the industry.

John Sullivan

5y↑33

Yeah not a great conversation. I think if you read a lot you can tell bad writing almost instantly. Yeah, first 8 sentences is about right. I give books 100 pages and then Im out, if It's bad. I think people will look for what they like and pay for what they like whether printed or online. Just keep reading and writing folks, and improve your craft. Make sure the quality is there before you start looking for payment and exposure.

Christopher Ridolfi

@Gemini Writer Beta readers and critical thinking.

Gemini Writer

How do you make sure quality is there?

Day Dreamer

5y↑1

Your advice makes sense and it's encouraging. As a novice poet, thank you so much.

Griffith Harland

5y↑7

Trouble with Editors, is: They love to cut my writing so much, I wonder why I rely on them? The major readers, buy books because there is something left to read.

Fla Mingo

2y↑1

And this is the reason why traditional publishing is also considered as gate keeping. Many famous books also had to be rejected more than twenty times. J.K Rowling's HP was only given a chance when the editor's child read and loved her book. Seriously 8 sentences? That is the worse. At least the girl made more sense than the other guy at first. Aspiring writers, our only hope is to be patient enough, and maybe our 50th editor will accept our manuscript 🙄

Writer's blog/advice videos were far more useful than this video apparently

Rohit kumar

7y↑1

what a shame the book writers and so called intellectual are also talking more about web than papers. and this shows the literary world and publishers are working.

andrew thomas

7y↑57

OMG, Ian Brown. The first job of the writer is to use his/her own taste and measure their writing against some internal critic. Whether it sells or not has nothing to do with it. Think Van Gogh. And probably Homer. Why are you mixing up writing with capitalism?

cesar hernandez

Van Gogh is a painter, what that has to do with editing, or writing? I thought I could learn something, but I didn't. Waste of time....

Christian Metatron

5y↑1

Unfortunately most people pretending to be serious writers are writing for an audience of one: themselves. This is what kills their sales potential. Write for the reader or else forget it. Writing is customer service bottomline.

Dead Juice

6y↑3

andrew thomas You should direct that at Victor, he talks like he learned writing from a self help book.

SanityOne

You can learn to write well...but you can't learn what the best writers feel and know instinctively. If you don't have an ear for it...you just don't...and won't. You can be taught the mechanics of writing, but you can't be taught the artistic side of it.

Ana von Rebeur

a good book makes you forget you aré reading, you aré immersed in the story

Karl O'Connor

6y↑5

It's impossible to tell early on if a story is good or not unless it really is written poorly. I got the book The Girl On The Train a couple of years ago purely based on its success and the fact that I overheard a few people speak highly of it. For the most part I thought it was uninteresting and slow moving but I read and kept reading until the end. The last fifty or sixty really made the story. Those last number of pages brought it all together and turned a poor to average book into a great book in my opinion. There are other books that I have read which also work in this way so until a book is completely read it cannot be completely judged.

Abrey Liggins

Ya'll are being buffoons lol There are different voices, each with different levels of energy that draw in different types of people. It's literally the same thing as to the reason why you have the friends you do. IT JUST WORKS 🤣
An editor undertakes the challenge of putting what they like aside and viewing the writing in a neutral-ish manner.

Deryck Trahair

My tombstone will read : " He finally got acceptance". Screw these non talent over educated money making people. Hey, there's a story here. Our home work is to write 3 pages ABOUT this egotistical stupidity. I reckon we'll lean a lot about ourselves, WHY we write, and who we're trying to impress. This silly video is inspiring.

B d

should readers be responsible for avoiding clickbait? interesting question. i think people in general should make an effort to discover what the consequences of their actions are, so for clickbait, the consequence of a dumbing down of journalism and hyper monetization of writing. but i also think people are catching on to some extent, and they see the trickery and the craven attempts at getting views, and often avoiding it. i know i am.

blindeyeshater

I wrote something for the 1st time and would love feedback from an Editor. How do I make this happen?

goldeneddie

I've been reading the first paragraph of every book in the Top Ten list each month for the past 25 years. I don't buy them unless the first paragraph really engages me. Very few ever do and yet they are published and popular. Why? Because they were written by a celebrity or because they touch on a sensitive scandal, even though the writing is awful (see 'Dan Brown'). Or because that author is already well established with a loyal fan base. Or because Oprah or some other idiot pushed the book on some Book Club. Or or or...

Frank F

For the most part, I share your perspective. If I’m not interested or intrigued after reading the first paragraph or two, I don’t buy the book.

Shaun Seaman

2y↑1

There’s an irony in lamenting the fact that people aren’t paying appropriately for good stories, then veering off on a story about Antarctica for so long that the host finally has to cut you off. Exemplary journalism isn’t necessarily congruent with exemplary capitalism, but that’s true for every industry, and most other industries are learning to adapt in ways that enhance their art quality rather than diminish it. Instead of blaming readers for clicking on clickbait, it might be productive to reinvent the economics and incentive structures within publishing so that good work can once again be fiscally worthwhile.

aarondavid826

7y↑285

these people are why there is nothing unique being published

savanna love

4y↑2

Self publishing is on the rise for good reason.

gwen

🙌

Bootstrap Jones

5y↑4

self publishing ;)

Ovid Bowie

@Đuro Razbojnik THANK YOU!

Đuro Razbojnik

5y↑5

Uniqueness doesn't come from other people's reaction, it comes from your experience.

3 More Replies...

Sh Bleu

Well talking history ...most successful undying authors were rejected more than the ones who we never remember and made it from the very beginning

My 2 Cents Chronicles

3y↑1

What's amazing about this video is that a Self Proclaimed expert in editing can not see how they, themselves, need to be edited. The "Middle Man", pun intended, talks a lot about nothing. The only thing that stands out with him is the use of the word (I) - he says I a lot. He's a classic Narcissist, even stepping on the other Editor's response whenever she was asked a question by the Host. The Host started out well, but the interview took on a life of its own, that had nothing to do with the title of the video. It's obvious that the female Editor could see where this was going and she bowed out of it altogether. Totally useless information.

Howard Koor

7y↑3

Very enjoyable and insightful

Miser Jones AKA Maestro Pirouette

Getting immersed in a piece of writing does not mean the writing is good. I have an active imagination, and can get immersed even in bad writing, while good writing can sometimes leave me just staring at a page, likely cause I'm just not in the mood for it.

pudbass

Owners of " major"papers or magazines are not interested in serious writing or in the authors, they use them/us , always have. I can't afford to write without my crowd sourcing crowd. I work to please and they show appreciation by chipping in and sharing.

Alan Cornes

I could be way off the mark but I suspect that in Britain the publication of fiction is riddled with class distinctions. An editor can tell your level of education and class by the ‘accent’ you write in, not so much the grammar, but the thinking process that is revealed through your sentences. If you come across as working class they may only be interested in you giving then something gritty and shocking. Stories about middle class professional couples going through a divorce and retreating in angst to Tuscany can only be delivered by those who have the right ‘accent’. And so on...

Boredfan Gerrude

7y↑73

Do you know what is more valuable than gold?

A good book.

KMMOS1

Ask King Midas. After your roses, your finger food, and then your daughter turn into solid gold, you'll soon make value judgements in favor of your own life.