Genesis
Mercury and the Architects Lyrics

Jump to: Overall Meaning ↴ Line by Line Meaning ↴

If you just stare into the water ya I guess you'll never drown
And if your scared to die a martyr then I guess just back out now
But when the tide rolls into town I bet you'll wish you learned to swim
And when their bullets strike you down I bet you’ll wish you learned to live

I feed the wild fire and dance with vampires
to stay awake
You built an empire inside some barbed wire

And died a slave

Take a glance between the blinds see through windows of your mind
Take a chance and roll the dice if you're not here to just survive
And if the window breaks will You escape or hide inside your head
And if the dice you played don't land your way would you dare to roll again

I feed the wild fire and dance with vampires
to stay awake
You built an empire inside some barbed wire
And died a slave

Pulled back the veil
To no avail
Too big to fail
This world’s a business
Your so different like a Muslim a jew and christian
Inside the system divide and conquer
They can turn a great man to a monster
Guard the borders like the lines exist
I guess a New world order wasnt just a myth
got something to say better plead the 5th
Before we play know the game was rigged
Fuck the fame i wanna live for something real
Maybe one day youll hear this and break the wheel
My sun if the stars align and the time ever comes
When they Kill me off before the job is done
Heres the blueprint go make some music
And go tell the world that the world is one

I feed the wild fire and dance with vampires
to stay awake

You built an empire inside some barbed wire
And died a slave

Overall Meaning

The first verse of "Genesis" by Mercury and the Architects addresses the theme of taking risks and facing your fears. The line "If you just stare into the water ya I guess you'll never drown" suggests that if you avoid challenges and stay in your comfort zone, you may never experience failure, but you'll also never achieve anything significant. The next line, "And if your scared to die a martyr then I guess just back out now," implies that if you fear taking a stand for your beliefs or principles, then it's better to retreat rather than face the consequences. However, the following lines warn that when difficult times come, you will regret not having developed the necessary skills ("learned to swim") and the courage to face adversity ("learned to live").

The second verse of the song encourages listeners to step out of their comfort zones and embrace uncertainty. "Take a glance between the blinds see through windows of your mind" suggests that by opening our minds and being curious about the world, we can gain new perspectives and insights. The line "And if the window breaks will You escape or hide inside your head" challenges us to confront challenges head-on rather than retreating into our thoughts and fantasies. The following line asks whether we would dare to take another chance if our previous attempts do not succeed, urging us to continue trying and not give up easily.

The third verse delves into more social and political commentary. It criticizes the concept of a controlled and manipulative society, symbolized by the line "Pulled back the veil to no avail, too big to fail, this world's a business." This suggests that despite efforts to reveal the truth and expose corruption, those in power remain untouchable. The lyrics also touch on the division and manipulation of people based on religious, ethnic, and national identities, represented by the lines "Your so different like a Muslim, a Jew, and Christian, inside the system divide and conquer." The verse implies that powerful forces can turn virtuous individuals into monsters and highlights the existence of global power structures like the New World Order. Ultimately, it urges listeners to be aware of these systems and speak up for a unified world.

The final verse of the song transitions to a more personal message. It speaks of the desire to live a meaningful and authentic life, rather than chasing fleeting fame and superficial success. The line "Fuck the fame, I wanna live for something real" suggests a rejection of hollow achievements and a longing for genuine impact on the world. The lyrics express a desire to break free from the constraints of society and make a difference. The reference to the listener being granted the responsibility to carry on the musician's work after their untimely demise reflects the idea that true change takes time and perseverance. The verse concludes with a call to action, urging the listener to create art and spread the message that we are all connected in this world.

Line by Line Meaning

If you just stare into the water ya I guess you'll never drown
If you refuse to face your fears and challenges, you'll never experience growth or overcome obstacles

And if your scared to die a martyr then I guess just back out now
If you're unwilling to make sacrifices or stand up for your beliefs, then it's better to avoid taking risks

But when the tide rolls into town I bet you'll wish you learned to swim
When difficult times or challenges arise, you'll regret not acquiring the necessary skills or resilience to navigate through them

And when their bullets strike you down I bet you’ll wish you learned to live
In moments of crisis or danger, you'll realize the importance of truly living and embracing life

I feed the wild fire and dance with vampires to stay awake
I engage in risky or intense activities to keep myself alert and alive

You built an empire inside some barbed wire and died a slave
You created a life of confinement and restriction, ultimately losing your freedom and autonomy

Take a glance between the blinds see through windows of your mind
Look beyond your self-imposed limitations and explore the depths of your own thoughts and perspectives

Take a chance and roll the dice if you're not here to just survive
Embrace uncertainty and take risks if you want to live a more fulfilling life, rather than just existing

And if the window breaks will You escape or hide inside your head
In times of crisis or vulnerability, will you face the challenges head-on or retreat into your own thoughts and avoid taking action?

And if the dice you played don't land your way would you dare to roll again
If your initial attempts or decisions don't yield the desired outcome, will you have the courage to try again and take another chance?

Pulled back the veil, To no avail, Too big to fail, This world’s a business
Despite trying to uncover the truth, it proves ineffective as those in power are too influential and the world operates on profit-driven motives

Your so different like a Muslim a jew and christian
You are unique and diverse, just like individuals belonging to different religions

Inside the system divide and conquer
The system thrives on exploiting divisions among people and pitting them against each other to maintain control

They can turn a great man to a monster
The system has the ability to corrupt and twist individuals of great potential and integrity into evil beings

Guard the borders like the lines exist
Borders are artificially defined boundaries that society protects and defends, despite their arbitrary nature

I guess a New world order wasnt just a myth
The concept of a new world order, where a global power structure exists, is not merely a fictional idea

Got something to say better plead the 5th
Sometimes it's wiser to remain silent or refuse to answer questions to protect oneself from self-incrimination

Before we play know the game was rigged
Be aware that the system or rules are designed to favor certain individuals or groups, making it inherently unfair

Fuck the fame i wanna live for something real
I prioritize living an authentic and meaningful life rather than chasing fame and superficial recognition

Maybe one day you'll hear this and break the wheel
Perhaps someday you'll come across this message and break free from the cycle of repetitive and oppressive systems

My sun if the stars align and the time ever comes, When they Kill me off before the job is done
In the event that circumstances align and I am prematurely taken away, before I can complete my mission or purpose

Here's the blueprint go make some music, And go tell the world that the world is one
Here is the plan, create art in the form of music, and spread the message that humanity is interconnected and unified

Lyrics © Songtrust Ave
Written by: THOMAS JOSEPH FERRANOLA

Lyrics Licensed & Provided by LyricFind

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Most interesting comments from YouTube:

CMDR Mikalent

3y↑9

Reclaimer is just sad, salvaging was supposed to be dropped with the Reclaimer, but because it got delayed due to ICACHE issues, now the poor thing is more neglected than the f*cking Connie, the poor thing can't even lift off from most planets now.

Now for the Starliner, I don't think the whole mini game thing is worth it. What if feel they SHOULD do for the Starliner is A) put in a small medical bay, allow you to customize it, want a large medical bay that can treat anything? You lose say 50 of you 300 passenger compartment, but you can respawn there, and passengers will give you a batter rating.

B) external game loops, you become well know among the wealthy as a grade A transport, well pirates will now more actively seek out your ship than if you say ran a full economy class, but if you run full economy, you run the risk of criminal elements using you ship to get past security. Did you just pick up 100 people from what was supposed to be a tiny outpost? Perhaps you have a few hijackers in board, or smuggled weapons, you get the idea.

C) The Privateer/merchantman treatment, the stick you carry in SCU can be used up by the passengers (if you allow it) hiring NPC "flight attendants" will facilitate this, stock top shelf brandy, on a flight for "I'm barely scraping by" class, don't expect it to sell as well as the wealthy clientele, but the fat cats will demand more space, and more variety of commodities to actually give you a good rating, but the economy class will be happy with a bag of peanuts and a glass of water.

D) Colonization, again if any ship needs modularity, it would be the Starliner. As for colonization, it's easy to see, while a Pioneer can lay down a prefabricated base, you still need people to run any miscellaneous machinery and do repairs. Having the Starliner function not just as a mass transport for Human Cargo, but allow it to function as an advertising area to get NPCs to sign on as colonists or workers for you little slice of paradise, and allow Starliner owners to sacrifice some of the raw passenger capacity to haul specific amenities such as drinking water, prepackaged food, and fuel.

CMDR Mikalent

3y↑3

Now for the Starliner, I don't think the whole mini game thing is worth it. What if feel they SHOULD do for the Starliner is A) put in a small medical bay, allow you to customize it, want a large medical bay that can treat anything? You lose say 50 of you 300 passenger compartment, but you can respawn there, and passengers will give you a batter rating.

B) external game loops, you become well know among the wealthy as a grade A transport, well pirates will now more actively seek out your ship than if you say ran a full economy class, but if you run full economy, you run the risk of criminal elements using you ship to get past security. Did you just pick up 100 people from what was supposed to be a tiny outpost? Perhaps you have a few hijackers in board, or smuggled weapons, you get the idea.

C) The Privateer/merchantman treatment, the stick you carry in SCU can be used up by the passengers (if you allow it) hiring NPC "flight attendants" will facilitate this, stock top shelf brandy, on a flight for "I'm barely scraping by" class, don't expect it to sell as well as the wealthy clientele, but the fat cats will demand more space, and more variety of commodities to actually give you a good rating, but the economy class will be happy with a bag of peanuts and a glass of water.

D) Colonization, again if any ship needs modularity, it would be the Starliner. As for colonization, it's easy to see, while a Pioneer can lay down a prefabricated base, you still need people to run any miscellaneous machinery and do repairs. Having the Starliner function not just as a mass transport for Human Cargo, but allow it to function as an advertising area to get NPCs to sign on as colonists or workers for you little slice of paradise, and allow Starliner owners to sacrifice some of the raw passenger capacity to haul specific amenities such as drinking water, prepackaged food, and fuel.

I hope I'm getting a few of my ideas across, but I don't think having the starliner be an ED clone is good, but the whole mini game idea would get dull REAL fast.

Bakeneko

3y↑7

a) Yes, they could and maybe should implement the Starliner with a "barebones" mechanics. But, to make it a little different I would add actual visible passengers in the seats, maybe even entering and leaving the ship and "special" hangars for the Starliner to land in, when on route. Though these I'd limit to NB, A18 and Lorville. Though I'd not implement the NPCs if they cause more issues than immersion, on the otherside this would be a way to test it, even the PU is nothing but just another test verse. But Hangars for passenger entry and exit I would almost consider mandatory.

b) Should they add these minigames? Yes, of course! But maybe it's ok to add them in later.

c) Do I see myself doing these minigames over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.. you get the point.
No. But I think that won't be an issue. With rising reputation you will likely get better routes or passengers that are willing to pay more, if the necessary "luxury" is offered. So with that it shouldn't be a problem to hire extra people or in the long run NPCs to do it. Players will likely accept these kind of jobs only short term, though this maybe the starting point for those interested in passenger transport who do not own a ship beyond the starter pack and have no desire to venture into other fields to accumulate the necessary money to buy a transporter.

Edit:
In addition to that: How "annoying" these minigames will be depends on how frequently they pop up. Your passengers will get hungry/thirsty on a tour, so serving drinks and foods should be, depending on route included for almost any route.
The other stuff, like broken equipment, well, I guess this should be coupled with how well you take care of your ship in the first place. Do you check your equipment regularly, replace broken parts or just wire it together somehow. etc. etc. etc. This should be for the considered Starliner owner not really an issue, only for the careless.
Medical emergencies or security emergencies should also be a rare thing, with some players maybe never even encountering such. Though this should be coupled and maybe dependent on the kind of passenger you're transporting, status, life conditions etc, which also depends on the region you are in, is it rather wealthy or a poor borderland.

These kind of situations should never pop up so frequently that you have the feeling it will happen every day or every play session. It should be something that always might happen, but is relatively unlikely to happen.
And yes, sometimes these things must be annoying, because these things are annoying. Problems are annoying. So you better take good care of your ship and your equipment!

Auzor

I 'identify' the Genesis Starliner with the red from the concept art.. surprised, that it still looked quite good with the blue-green.

Gameplay loops vs ship building:
I had thought of this before your vid: yes, I'd rather see the ship sooner rather than later.
The core gameplay, is passenger transport.
Well, how is this so different from an 890J, 600i or the Connie Phoenix? It's not like 'luxury VIP' things are in-game right now.
Even without any gameplay, they can still show us how they see T1-T2-T3 passenger seating etc, how they'd do the interior,..
Mixmaster etc: honestly: I think I'd likely 'distribute' that task to an NPC most of the time.
What quality of 'entertainment system', would have issues each and every flight? And think of how everyone in SC has some sort of holo-interface on their own person already...

More interesting conundrums would be things like receiving a distress call from a different ship whilst passengers are on board;
having someone with a medical emergency whilst on-board (do you re-route to make a stop at a place with a hospital; do you request to be intercepted by a medical ambulance like a Cutlass Red/Apollo; do you pause (how long) to let a recovered passenger back on-board,.. I fear the logic would be beyond the functionalities that CIG can implement.
Drink mixer: meh. Instead, could be about managing inventory: what type of beverage/food does 'your' passenger ride offer? Offer free alcohol, and probably your passengers like this.. (slightly lower profit/passenger, but you are more filled in # of passengers with reputation) and once in a while, you'll have rowdy or worse passengers; or drunk asleep passengers that don't get off at their stops..
Passengers trying to smuggle contraband on themselves/their cargo: do you have checks for this? If intercepted and contraband is detected, you might be fined for having let contraband through.. might depend on the system, how strict/lax this is..

But think about modern aviation. Think of how many flights occur, without true major issues.
a system breaking in-flight, should be a relatively rare occurrence (yes, it happens all the time IRL... but we have !thousands! of flights per day on earth. And most system issues are quite minor).
The mix-master: f off. 'my' passenger rides offers a choice of beverages that don't involve mixing. Take your pick of what's on-board. Don't like it? Go pay for an Origin transport. If we're talking multi-day transport, then passenger entertainment should be more things like yoga/movement; anything to promote bloodflow (sitting still on a chair for long is terrible), without resulting in hordes of people bumping into each other within the confines of a ship. Say, the ship has 5 sections for the passengers. 4 are seats and passenger stuff (bathroom, food/drinks,..); and the 4th section you can leave open, and then have it as a multi-functional entertainment room where passengers can take turns and move around a bit,..

Starliner in 2021: don't get your hopes up.
Hercules, Polaris, BMM... Redeemer,..
Vulture if they get salvage running;
Hull-C; I think the Connie Taurus.
are ALL much further along (as in: had actually had SOME work done on them) than any of the others.
Instead of a ship bought in 2015, we apparently get the Talon and 400i ...neither of which add any gameplay either. dammit CIG!
(NB: Starliner supposedly has 300 SCU worth of cargo. When that's not in use for passenger cargo, that's actually not bad at all. Think, about half a Caterpillar. Yes, it's a more expensive ship; but cargo isn't the main role.. would be 'good enough' for a first flyable ship. See the interior; get some more details etc.. and well.. the Mercury didn't launch with datarunning either, did it?)

All comments from YouTube:

Montoya

3y↑18

The Starliner is probably right up there with the BMM for cult status. Opening animation by StarJump, go visit his awesome channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK3qzvEWx9c

SARGE_5th

I liked the video old friend, but...where are the MONTOYA HUGE AUREOLA?? I came just to be blinded for another month or so...

rick shaw

Your starliner gets an outbreak on board. Triggers a medical ship mission to come rescue and treat or a merc to destroy so it doesnt spread which triggers another to try and protect

Kosty19

No, this is clickbait! They said the C2 is already in the Pipeline, also the leaks confirm it. Didn't John Crewe say that the Starliner will need a re-concept and that it is NOT in active development? The more, we need working ai and a higher player count and new star systems for the Starliner to make any sense. So this video is nonsense!

boxofspam

Hmm Good point. However as long as the event frequency is dialed in AND you can upgrade components and hire NPC to help mitigate mini-games you may like it. You endure early on the grind but goal is to further limit it by hiring bartender, flight attendant, or if naughty adult entertainment NPC etc. Perhaps leave only random infrequent or battle conditions Sev1 issues that you have to deal with.

Montoya

3y↑1

@Orwell Huxley If AI can be the flight crew.. that would be ok.

1 More Replies...

Sam Wise

3y↑35

There should be a robot arm that slides down the ship and servers people drinks, or just hire NPC flight attendents with high customer service levels

drksideofthewal

3y↑23

With 300 SCU of cargo, the Genesis would be a pretty decent cargo ship. Nothing amazing, but it would have more purpose than the Reclaimer, Herald, or Terrapin currently do. It's a gorgeous ship, I'd like to see it in game as soon as possible.

CMDR Mikalent

3y↑9

Jeff Worthen

3y↑37

I would prefer to wait, they are really getting good at making ships

Brandon Porter

3y↑3

Yeah, people don't get that. The Banu Merchant Man is going to be really well made now vs if it were made already 4 years ago.

Mgl 1206

3y↑5

@Callous Cyclone when you play Star Citizen patience is a must 😂

Callous Cyclone

3y↑5

patience is a virtue

Lukas Stone

3y↑6

I think these loops can work, with moderation. I think instead of tying the mini-games to reputation, have it tied to like a bonus pay system, so players are not obligated to engage in the mini-games if they do not want.

David StarCitizen

3y↑10

In my opinion it's the same that the mining loop or the trading loop. All of them can get boring with the same repeating routine. And if you don't wont to serve drinks or repair anything just get NPCs for all the tasks except piloting as you desire

Darmath

3y↑7

The argument of "well the ship's game loops aren't ready" is just a copout. The Starfarer exists and both variants are in game. The Reclaimer exists and is in game. The Herald and Mercury Starrunner exist and are in game. The Reliant Mako exists and is in game. There are a variety of "exploration" ships that have no mechanics and are in game. The 890J exists and is in game.
My point being - there's no reason not to build the Starliner and put it in game now.

Vitae

@Morggo
Right... Uhm.. why is the 400i coming out soon?

Morggo

3y↑2

I would counter with.. why introduce yet another ship with missing gameplay loop(s) which only serve to generate more negativity amongst the player base and backers. Better is to focus on building out the loops and play, there are plenty of ships in the game in various states of functionality. (speaking as a frustrated many year owner of a starfarer and watching it's loop slowly get pushed into oblivion...)

Thomas Vogl

3y↑9

You would also need a mini game for security. Now that force reactions are ingame, all those npc psssangers standing on their seats, could really hurt your reputation

Mgl 1206

3y↑1

It’ll have much better inertial compensators I think

Hans Yolo

3y↑2

Maybe with the introduction of another solar system. I don't see much of a point for it while we only have one system. But I also only think it would be useful as an AI flown way to get around in-system/between systems, and I don't think the AI is at that point yet.

ArkhamUK

3y↑1

The combination of the mini games may make the experience. Personally I want a smaller ship like the dolphin and destination s to tourist spots. Makes you see all the cool things you would of normally missed

Emmanuel

3y↑2

i would kill to get a genesis starliner. For the game loops, i think it will depend on how often it happens. if you get a medical case once every 3-4 trip, or the ICES server crapping out once a day. might not be a big deal. for the mixmaster, pretty sure you can get NPC to do it for you.

AstronautIsaac

3y↑1

I think the Starliner would be one of the few ships that could be implemented without any additional work for its gameloop implementations, as it doesn‘t need special animations as ships like the Reclaimer or Starfarer. You could just have empty rows of seats and you could still fly players from A to B. So I would be more than happy if it got implemented without its intended gameplay loops.

tropicthndr

3y↑61

Don’t want any ship rushed into service for impatient children, leads to bad design features that have to be corrected later.

Julian Alvarez

@Joel Ellis I understand what you’re saying, and I actually think they should keep making concept ships. I think the straight to flyable ships are the problem because rather than just making it a concept they actually work on it and ignore the old concept ships.

Joel Ellis

@Julian Alvarez what Travis Tolbert actually said was that "SC would be in a better state" if CIG had focused on ships still in concept rather than creating new concepts. That is to say that the game state would be better if CIG had focused on finishing out ships. I pointed out that that assertion is BS because the game mechanics are not predicated on what ships are in development (it's actually the reverse), and the ship team is completely separate from those creating those game mechanics. Basically, no resources have been pulled from game development to make new ships.
Now, granted, you don't like the 400i concept. Generally, I think it's meant to be somewhere like an upscale Freelancer or Starrunner, which with SC's lore rather fits in the idea of competing models. Yet, from the leaked images, I don't care for the aesthetics. So, yeah, it's a ship that I don't want. Difference is, I don't begrudge CIG for making a concept that I don't care for since I understand that's how CIG is funding development. I've already seen people who have said that they like the 400i, and while I can't understand their taste, I say more power to them.

Julian Alvarez

@Joel Ellis They aren’t saying that it’s slowing development, they’re saying that instead of making new ships like the 400i they should focus on ships that have been in concept for years.

Joel Ellis

3y↑1

@Vitae but he did pile on to a thread that was about ship design slowing the game development. So did you. The ship design team has not slowed the rate of the game development. In fact, the ship design team has kept development going through the continued funding. And "ships that no one asked for"? Tell that to the Kraken owners, or Starlifter, or Starrunner, 100 series owners. Etc. You're being bitchy because you didn't get your preferred ship.

Vitae

3y↑1

@Joel Ellis
And Hm-Smithers didn't talk about game development. He talked about ships being sold years ago that people are waiting for. I own a Redeemer and a Starliner. For years. Not released yet. During that time we have gotten quite alot of ships that no one asked for.

6 More Replies...

Black Manx

3y↑2

Great that you brought this up Montoya. As a GSL owner, I am curious how a more mature CIG will handle the game play for this ship. Years ago, in the old forums, we beat this dead horse to multiple deaths but those were different times. I would have to say, compared to the other professions that are already in alpha, the original concepted game play loops for the GSL were a sophomore effort at best - CIG will need to up their game on this.

Montoya

The community aged 5yrs, now we demand wheelchair access to the GSL!

PlasticDeath

3y↑1

Great points made in this video! I actually own one as part of a pack and if I have to go through those mini games its going to get upgraded to something else. I do see that the gameplay needs its own flavour, like maybe managing route and passenger risk and security levels or even employing a bartender (which is coming in game anyway), but wasting time on separate mechanics when there is so much else to get done seems daft. I’d be happy to be able to be a part of the games transport network in 2021 and if it feels empty then revisit it all later.

michaelr27

3y↑1

I'd really like to do regular pax/cargo flts with the Starliner. Also some CIA like airline running ops around the verse on missions would be awesome

David AE Levy

3y↑2

Would I be okay with my Starliner releasing before game loops for it are in? Yea sure of course, but as long as they do a good job with the ship design.

jbirdmax

I’ve always loved this ship. I would love seeing it in game and will get one in game. Actually I think Crusader is now my favorite manufacturer.

David AE Levy

3y↑1

The game loop will be entertaining after release with voice chat and real players being transported. Hearing their stories in the 'verse during your transport flight. edit: all the artificial game loops of food and medical should be automated with NPCs and player override-able for those players who really want to do that stuff.

Shawn S

Looking at this old concepts design makes me really excited about what the final design will look like considering how they will far the Crusader style design has evolved. Better cockpit for starters. I would love to see some MSR elements in the design.

CMDR Mikalent

3y↑3

Captain Phantom

3y↑4

We have the 890J in the game and its only use use as far as I am aware is to be used for a boarding action mission. If we can have super yachts in the game with no real game loops for them yet I don't see why we cant have the Genesis Starliner in the game before its gameplay loops are integrated.

LJB

And you could also have a high jacked Starliner too.

Inge Imba

3y↑1

I got a Starliner but i think we have to wait min. 2 more Years for it. They said in the Q&A last week that it need a new concept. I would love to see it next year with the new gameloops. Without the gameloops i dont need it because we already got enough cargo ships. For me the Starliner is a great ship to earn money and to run with npc crew in the future.

Tealwraith

3y↑1

First of all, Glorious Leader Montoya, I think the Genesis Starliner looks absolutely stunning, a truly beautiful design from before CIG started redesigning all their ships to look as garbage as possible. Secondly, If I owned one, I would play with it without all the loops being in, even if I had to take credits by the current system or just for the pleasure of flying it. I could still do box missions, however uneconomical it might be.

TexSweden

3y↑1

Great video, got me thinking! Minigames should be for a job like "crewman", ie you cant afford to buy a ship so you take on a steward job for a while - another job could be marshal - so if someone tries to hijack the ship you can take them out, etc. or you could simply hire NPCs to do these things. But to start out, just moving people from A to B should suffice I think.

Joe Dinsdale

3y↑1

I think the interest in the passenger transport gameplay should come catering to the needs of the customers. For example some passengers might be willing to pay more to see some of the more dangerous areas or for a little excitement where others might want you to stay under the radar etc. I'm sure Elite has some of this in already to an extent although theres a lot of room to expand on it.

PilotB

3y↑2

I am looking forward to more Crusader ship concepts and straight to flyable ships!

T0ghar

Passenger transport V0 would be a great idea together with the Phoenix, 600i, 890 and the Starliner in 2021.

TheMuffinMan

3y↑1

Don't Believe its needed for the pilot itself, would be a game loop for the crew to do or AI Crew do it automatically. Either buying better Ai crew or training the crew to do better. Alot of options to move it around.

AstroSam - Star Citizen

3y↑1

Love at first sight. One of the few ships that I have never melted. But another "Starfarer" - ship without gameplay loops - I don't need. I'd rather wait and enjoy what's already playable.

Wolf Anderson

3y↑1

I think the mini games are fine as an option to increase rep / customer satisfaction / commission, but should not be required to complete the mission. it should only be an option not a requirement.

Djendo

3y↑1

I love the Starliner and would definitely want to own one in game. I do not think I would want to do those minigames though. It wouldn't really make sense either. Unless you choose to be one of the crew members on someone else's ship. In that case it might be fun as it could be a variation on games like Diner Dash. As the pilot I would just want to fly and have other NPC's or people take care of the rest.

Scape

I'm indifferent to the Star liner, but I am looking forward to seeing these in the Verse transporting passenger's around

Skiba

3y↑1

I was super bored with ED passenger missions. There was not enough depth to it imo. I'd personally wait with the development of the Starliner so that they can devote some time in designing the game-loops around it. Otherwise, we may find ourselves with another nice looking ship that does not fulfil much purpose yet (Terrapin and Herald come to mind).

Ilias Dadfar Spanta

I think if the features like the medical aspect would be rarer, it would still be something exiting, even after a long time.

Ryan — Aqualith Media

I'm personally eyeing the Genesis Starseeker variant mentioned in the concept sale introduction post. Instead of people mover, it specializes in SWACS (or AWACS in present real world) and Command & Control. I picture this as the Bus or Zephyr from Agents of SHIELD, great for smaller org military missions.

Firebrand

3y↑1

Passenger should be able to play the stock market/oew refining processes and data sorting etc. while being ferried and the ship owner/pilot gets a percentage of all profits made. Make it worthwhile and rewarding...

Bishop / Bischof

3y↑1

A good shortcut would be that hired NPCs have to take on these minigames in the beginning and just simulate doing them.

Based on skill of the NPC they sometimes succeed or fail.

The better the NPC the higher the pay. (Bullfrog, Sim Hospital style Crew management, with hiring firing, promoting and training.)

+ some Star-NPC-Crew that enables you to get better jobs might be only found at certain planets and hire up with you after you did then a favour (rescue missing raltive from pirates)

sonicx059

3y↑1

I would be ok with it being release if ship modules were already released. Then the ship would have an actual use currently. I planned to get the ship in the verse.

To me the minigames would be fun, because there are phones and internet games based around same playstyle. I tend to play them when I want to do something mindlessly.

Super White Suit

I could see this working if the pay was good enough, say you take on a load of First Class passengers and you had to take them from one system to another and they paid like 500k but you have to have a crew to do these minigames to earn their keep on final prize.

I personally like it but the games would have to be pretty interesting and not just a "push buttons faster" or "time the pour" kind of childish games, make it realistic with actual stewardess's, an engineer, one or two doctors, a pilot and a few escort ships. that's a lot of staff to have sitting around not doing anything if there isn't challenges to do or pirates to fend off.

CGI want to encourage teamwork so they don't want one guy with a ship to make bulk money for a pick up and drop off

Aidan

Yeah I would be worried that a compulsion to take part in the minigames, depending on their frequency of occurrence, could become very tedious. Like why would communications modules on a ship from 4 centuries in the future or whatever be constantly breaking down, if at all?

I think it would be interesting if you got a reputation bonus or something from charting a path that maximizes your flight time in space within range of active comm relays, maintaining passenger access to the internet (or whatever the Star Citizen equivalent of the internet is).

Lakario Davis

3y↑1

man its very beautifully designed! just perfect

Techno Toad

3y↑2

This ship looks A LOT like the M22-T Krayt Gunship from Star Wars Galaxies.

Hedgewalker

I guess it would depend on the frequency and randomness of these game loops. Yes, if they are the same thing going off all the time on every flight it would be very tedious, however, if maybe some of these loops are uncommon and they mix it up and introduce new random situations then transport on the Genesis Starliner would be consistently fun. I don’t see the devs making that happen however, so keeping it vanilla would be, in my opinion, the most acceptable thing they could do without breaking yet another string of promises to their investor/fan base.

thisishaggard

The Starliner and Banu Merchantman were the first 2 ships that really drew me in back in 2015/2016. At this point I "own" a BMM, but I would love to buy a Starliner in game. Commercial star pilot life.

WEB2TV

I think they are going to want to have the passengers actually animated and physically in your ship though and that particular mechanic will take a bit of time I personally think

Dustfang

We're getting 2, maybe 3 crusader ships in a short period of time. Id like to see progress on some of the other larger ships on the back burner. Particularly o es that don't need a new gameplay loop or coretech. The Polaris wouldn't be as fun with the low server cap, but the only thing its really waiting on is man hours, unlike the Nautilus drones, or the markets for the BMM. I don't particularly want to see the genesis get the reclaimer, starfarer, or herald treatment, put in game with no real gameplay, or something thats band-aided together. Bring the starliner in when passenger gameplay is ready, and develop the two together. If they're ready to build that loop, then I'd be happy to see another ship ticked off the list. I just think focus should be on ships that will be able to do their jobs.

Additionally, better this than another stf ship. Clear the backlog, then get on the stf stuff.

Bakeneko

3y↑7

Reurbo

I own a Genesis and it is for me what the Carrack has been for so many others... my die hard favorite ship. As for the game loops, I don't see them being an issue if you have say 1-5 ICES blades start going bad after say at least a few weeks or even months playing in-game, but if their are even 5-10 failures per run it'll get old real quick. With the Mixmaster game loop, I think if it's optional (players or NPCs) and you can have the option of doing it yourself or if your hired help is falling behind you step in, then it'd be ok. As of right now, the parts I'd care more about is stocking my Genesis with the ingredients, making sure entertainment is updatable, and having enough spare parts to make it. Add in the setting ticket prices and picking a destination along with the option like Elite Dangerous where you take missions which have a set number of people, set price, and set reputation changes listed, it'd be a more long term ship with it's game loops.

Teemu Leppä

Looking forward for new gameplay...this game REALLY needs more gameplay loops

Spezi

2y↑1

I actually bought it at the IAE with warbondchain and saved 250$ :) i hope they will release it soon.. its my favorite ship in SC :)

Romeo Tango

Passenger transportation is hardly awaited by me. My point of view is that this can bring a lot more life in the game. The planned mini games can be implemented when the journey start to take longer time

Acun

First of all, I do not own one but the play style was very appealing as far as being an owner operator of a transportation ship or company that may also be a form of cruise type ship comparable to cruise line companies we have today. I think this basic idea is very good will work for many people.

As for the side games, look here is what I think will happen, most liners will have NPC/A.I. fill these positions, CIG will make them less invasive, meticulous or tedious. Again there will always be a % of players who seek this sort of immersion but you are right many will not want to deal with this on a daily routine forever this is why I feel A.I. will come in.

This is the problem with making a game this detailed and immersive, where do you draw the line? You ask for realism at every turn but when it becomes to tedious or boring you say no I don't want it... eating, drinking, showering, going to the bathroom, I dont need these things either but the community was dead set on it, prison system? I didn't need it, where do we draw the line? I am afraid at this point that line will never be drawn, I dont see CIG removing them but rather making them optional to where NPC or A.I. can fill those roles.

panzr110

That ship is so damn cool. I can’t wait til it gets here. Glad she is in my inventory.

FrostL

i think some of these things happening on ocation would be ok but i think the bulk of the game play loop should be flying but also crew and ship mauntenents so the way you handle the ship like the volatile cargo except it doesn't explode so it could have some calculation of Gs, time taken then on the other side if you can choose how much fuel you will take on board and more fule means you will be a bit slower to begin with and or your fuel consumption will increase in relation to the excess fuel cutting into your profit, another factor to both your rep and income would also be your crew experience.

Richard Osterhout

3y↑2

i would rather have a smaller local shuttle service, like the use of the dropship in the citizencon microtech demo - just ferry people around the planet and maybe into orbit to stations

Mgl 1206

Once the wider galaxy is in then the star liner is necessary

IOwOI

3y↑1

Transporting passengers could take anywhere from 10s of minutes to an hour or two, this game is designed so if you are in a multicrew ship you NEED multiple crew members on board. Are you just going to sit there and just do nothing?

Anachroschism

I'm used to ships without game loops, so it wouldn't make a difference really. It's cool just to get to see these ships, even if the game loops come later. I will get the passengers or goods there in less than 12 parsecs! Hopefully the mini-games are optional.

Emanuele Muzio

I think the core gameplay should be about piloting therefore how well you fly the ship: max G, overall flight time, quality of the take off and landing actions, noisiness of the engines and/or how frequently you make pitch/roll/yaw adjustments, how well you plot your routes, how you oriented the ship during the flight (being the sun (s) most annoying for me due to the glaring light, might be the same for the passengers). On the mission giving side: local trips that depart and land on the same airport with maybe some sightseeing missions just like the concorde did in the '80s or a "regata" formula where you have to fly a full circle around the major cities in a system. I would keep the minigames highly optional IF implemented at all as those have a strong cooking mama vibe and look a bit too silly to me. All the accomodations should give reputation and extras over the price of the ticket as is on most low cost companies, therefore, the higher the level of the accomodation, the better the services, the higher the returns, with a chance to compete in the market also by setting prices ourself.

Arjun

You must remember that if you like flying the ship you hire the crew that takes care of these mini games. If you just want to take part in the mini game aspect you hire a pilot. If you simply wish to go to a new destination you pay as a passenger. I'm sure this cannot be anymore tedious than engineering or manning a torpedo launch bay or being a turret gunner called to action rarely.

It adds more depth and gives many a less arcade simulation feel. They should introduce the Genesis already. Its high time. The have 4 spaceports a number of space stations and once they get the docking collar ready, passenger transport should technically be no different than cargo carrying. In time they can introduce the other aspects.

This also caters to other industries. For instance in the Luxury section they would be more open to rare wines or liquor. You would either need to source these yourself or hire a cargo hauler to get you these exotic beverages so that you are always fully stocked. If a zone has a reputation of being hostile you would need to hire escorts and charge your passengers more for the risk. I like the depth it offers.

Stedman75

I dont want the Starliner to look like the other crusader ships though, i wouldn't have bought it if it did.
It will lose the futuristic Art Deco look, for a far boxier and much more bland looking ship.

Eduardo

3y↑2

Just let us hire npc crew to deal with the passengers and we focus on Captaining and / or piloting the ship, that's it

NSDQ

Played ED for years, made a lot of credits on passenger missions back in the day, not so much any longer but I am going to agree that CR's approach of infinite fidelity and lifelike game loops will just get old real fast. Like in ED with VIP sightseeing missions compared to transport missions. Sure they pay more but they are a pain in the ass with passenger demanding you change your route to pick up some stupid item when it is 22000 ly to the destination or lowers your reputation because some dumb ass NPC interdicts you enroute. I don't believe there are as many role players as CR seems to think there are so these minigames will get old real quick with the average player who is just trying grind some UEC to make a little bank, same with missions for the 890 vip travel loop.

Citizen_Brimstone

3y↑1

I believe NPCs will handle the majority of passenger interaction, but if they don't give players the option of doing it themselves then some people will complain.

Until NPC crews come online though, a barebones system would be nice.

Daniel Wetzel

3y↑2

I mean a Genesis Starliner pilot is equivalent to an airline pilot. You don't see airline pilots leaving the cockpit to go fix the coffee machine. Therefore having the Starliner pilot do all these frankly silly mini-games is not appropriate. Rather I think one should hire the sc version of flight attendants to do all the mini-games and therefore customers should judge the quality of the flight as if it were an airline, not solely on the pilot's ability, but on the ability of other staff, each starliner should be treated as if it is its own airline. I contemplated purchasing a CCU to a starliner but I have decided against it because even though I want to be an airline pilot in real life, doing all the mini-games of the flight attendants in the starliner is not for me.

Audi5Fan

I think it can be simplified, make sure you have fresh/food/water in the storage and passengers stay happy. Later on we can add attendants and drink mixing Then I think your only hold up is generating visible passengers or not.

Techno Toad

3y↑14

You say starliner 2021, I say give us wormholes in 2021

Thomas

I say give us train doors that open in 2021

FUNG

I don’t think having mini game during the flight is a good idea, it will be better if CIG make it become a flight + management game, you need to plan the flight, make sure the route is safe, have enough fuel, react to unusual situation, upgrade and repair the ship to meet the needs, pick the right contract to avoid danger and losing money etc.

Abi R

3y↑1

Got as far as would I want this ship before the game loops for the ship are in the game and before the video went any further the answer is: YES!

grnaskd

3y↑15

The only mini-game should be fighting off the occasional hijacker.

NovorSec

Ocasional? More like regular lol

Ail Fawka

There is already a game with little to no depth in game loops, it's called elite dangerous lol

Benderama

3y↑1

This may actually be coming sooner rather then later. Once they finish the tech needed for NPCs to be able to traverse from space to planet side etc. Id imagine is one of the things holding it back as well

Sinepilot

That's a tall order for NPCs that struggle even to sit down :-P

Hikaruhoshi

I'm a really big fan of the starliner, so I'd definitively would check out the passenger transporting part of SC. The only problem that I have is, as you kind of said, the minigames. That makes soloing the starliner incredibly hard or even impossible. (I know that this ship isn't really ment to be soloed) Also, as a PILOT in SC, like today, you should concentrate on flying, not do something else. Of course it's going to be more boring like that, but what's with cargo hauling then? There's also no minigames while hauling. The jobs also belong to way other professions. The engineer should repair those things, the flight attendants should make the drinks, and the doctor should look after the health of the passengers. Why should this all be the pilots job? I'm very looking forward to seeing this ship in game, the passengers should simply be regarded as an other form of hauling stuff.

Talzet lumis

I think The genesis Strliner should maybe take more of a reallife approach like A380 or 747 r7 maybe even cargo variants of it, and not being faster = better reputation, in real live you have your times and tbh, I really think ppl which got the starliner are more of a pilot which didnt made it or just want to have their job in sc a bit.

Paul M Edwards

I would like to get the Starliner and participate in its passenger transport game loops. However, I think some of the minigames are ridiculous and unnecessary.

The drink mixer can and should be completely automated. Having players act as stewards and stewardesses, tending to passenger requests, would be good though. The other minigames are valid, but should be rare.

Medical emergencies mid-flight can and do happen, but they're pretty rare. Telemedicine, which is all the rage these days, was actually created to address this very issue, permitting flight-staff to communicate with specialist doctors in real time to diagnose and treat medical emergencies in air where minutes count.

Furthermore, I worked for an In-Flight Entertainment system manufacturer recently and while they did occasionally have some software and hardware failures mid-flight, the system was smart & robust enough to have redundant server side components in anticipation of such failures which would automatically take over if necessary. This is needed because the compartments where these components are installed is generally not accessed during a flight and any physical troubleshooting or repairs must be made on ground between flights for reasons primarily involving safety. Each aircraft also had some spare seat-back display units that could be swapped in to deal with a failed unit, which was pretty rare. For example, an aircraft that has ~300 seats would have about 4 to 8 spares; not many failures were anticipated or experienced. Our system was also designed in such a way that the seat back display units could operate disconnected from the server with a large amount of content onboard in case of network disconnections and/or a complete server side failure. I would expect the systems would be vastly superior in the far future of Star Citizen!

SternLX

I would crew on a Starliner if the Creds were worth it. I'm thinking anyone on the crew can fill in as the Engineer or Medic's roll as needed. I wouldn't think it would need to be a full time position. It'd be a nice break from the norm of Piloting everywhere anyway. That being said, I have pledged for a Starliner. I'm hoping I can hire NPC's to fill crew positions if I can't get an all regular Player crew. I can also see an unrealized minigame running an NPC crew. That is balancing NPC crew pay with Profit from flights. I would imagine the further away the destination, the more it pays. Can't wait to see if they put in multiple system trips. That reminds me. I'm also hoping there will be an in game "Job Board" of sorts. Either a terminal or a Mobi app that allows you to list crew positions on one of your own ships and vis-versa, look for a position on someone else's ship.

Stundar Dutch

Yes release it without the gameloops. We have the reclaimer for a while now without its gameloop. The Starliner can fulfill different roles until then. I personally have no issues with it.

Vitae

As long as NPC crews can do the minigames, I'm fine with it being in game. If I have to do them, I would get super frustrated. Said the same thing when we first saw the travel between systems and we they did this wormhole navigation. It will be fun the first 3 times. After that it's just gonna suck and you will wish it was just automatic.

David

I finally opted to melt up to one this IAE is the price hasn’t changed and I reckon it’s a $600+ ship on release. Regardless, I think we’re getting much closer to the gameplay loops coming online. The design language for Crusader is set, so I think this can and should be created and released by 2024 latest.

Cody Horn

3y↑1

Yes, they do on other ships; i could still do cargo with it

Timberjac

3y↑1

May be, an intermediated system is the best option, but if they do this... sorry for all military ships, beacouse mantain moral on a ship, can need a full logistical crew

Ren Dhark

Honestly, how interesting will flying ships be in 9 month? Of course we need all the mini games to get some variation in game play, of course nobody will play a full time mix master, as nobody will play a full time engineer or turret gunner. Having this ship ingame as just another flying cargo container would secure this ship a nice rusting place beween my Reclaimer and my Starfarer in the ships that will never see space in the near future.

Luftwolf

Agreed - I'd let the Starliner enter the Arena as soon as Transit mechanics are in place.
Those minigames were just intended to keep a crew busy, but who would like to work as steward endlessly if he could also fly in his own ship and do missions?
(Btw.: this is a question I'm asking myself on a lot of crew positions...)

Andre Dionne

I loved those mini games. those minigames couls also be implemented in the phones linked to the star citizen PC game just like Mass effect where we could manage some game elements with the phone

Velocity Films

3y↑5

I honestly think, with a bit of creativity, that the passenger game loop is something you can live without for quite some time. I'd love to have a ship like this release sooner than later.

Snaul Coppereye

Perhaps there will be an auto mode... where the passengers are assumed to have been catered for with a percentage chance of a mess up. This mode would remove the chance of bonus payments and take a slight hit on your reputation.
Perhaps there will be an NPC who can look after the passengers for you, prepare drinks, make diagnosis etc... the better the NPC(s) the better the care. The NPC option would allow for bonus payments and depending on their skill may or may not effect your reputation +/-.
Or of course, you could do it yourself for full potential for bonus and reputation payments.
Besides, the chances of the gameplay loops remaining static for 2 years is minimal. They will evolve, with component parts being dropped, some added and some modified. Maybe add films, a lecturer, chef demonstrations, ship tours, a prize draw... the potential list of additions is not small.

Heffé Frank

Releasing ships without game loops is fine for most. If you want to do something with the Genesis early on then turn it into a mission like the 890J. Not a fan of the minigames but I'd just avoid that sort of gameplay. Interested to see how it goes

sa gamer

I don't own one but I think I'd paid $400 for a ship 5 years ago I'd be getting a bit impatient by now. I also think your idea of this potentially being released with a "passengers as cargo" mechanic is quite workable and should be possible within the next 1 or 2 quarters. The extent to which we could or should interact with the passengers is probably the biggest sticking point. How immersive does this gameplay loop need to be (especially when nothing else is really complete) and when should they add passenger capability to the Origin 600i or Phoenix?

Citizen_Brimstone

3y↑1

I do not own a Star liner, but I love it. I hope they make it moduler so I can strip all the seats out and run purely cargo.

IOwOI

no, they have said that multiple times.

Christopher White

3y↑13

Please NO mini games, golf swings etc. Rather than that, let's be judged on the quality of the flight, the quality of the landing, the quality of the takeoff, the respect of flight rules and delays.
High paying missions could include flying in difficult conditions, flying through pirate infested space, respecting very tight deadlines etc.

IOwOI

3y↑1

You nor montoyo did not read it correctly... The mini games are for passengers not pilots... things like ices blades failing are just for CREW to do stuff while flying. All of this stuff is just things to do while waiting. Unless you just want 15-30 mins-hours of just sitting there doing nothing.

manifold d

These are good ideas!

rtbwolf

Gameplay loop should be based on managing NPC employees and accoutrements. Minigames should be for passengers and the options based on accoutrements added by ship owner/manager. Passenger happiness gives positive reputation as a service provider.

Tim Decker

Personally, I feel the Starliner is completely pointless. Instead, I'd take existing vehicles and modify them into transports, specifically made to fit in the cargo areas of the already established Hercules. The interiors and amenities of these transports could vary, depending upon the price that players (or NPCs) would be willing to pay. That way, the owners of the transports can deal with passenger satisfaction, as well as ticket pricing, and then the owner of the Hercules could haggle with the transport owners on pricing at the other end.

This would create more jobs, as well as a more diverse economy, without making any major changes in the gameplay.

Pixel Royal

Hopefully in a few updates we see Airliner jobs like tourism and such (And hopefully those jobs pay well also)

saftaisland

Probably the easiest way to satisfy everyone is to just be able to customise sections of your ship so you can choose which classes you have on your ship and just have economy be no mini games, business introducing basic easy mini games and having first class much more hands on with each paying out in increasing amounts

IceH2o

From what I've gathered from what I've read. I think the idea is that you have to do all the mini games yourself when you first start off, but as you grow in rep and earn more money you will be able to hire NPC's of varying skills that will take over for you. And as you continue to grow your "business" you can hire NPC of even higher skill as well as get the attention of passengers that will be willing to pay much more for your services.

CitizenTech

Génesis, is a great ship. Fly safe my friend 🚀

Talzet lumis

I hope like C5 Galaxy = Genesis Starliner(hope of tank would fit in cargo bay), C17 Globalmaster = C2,M2 Hercules, AC130 = A2Hercules. Im curious what do you think?

EvilMadMonk

3y↑1

"They can now easily..." yeah if it would be that easy it would be already ingame.... the Starliner is not the only ship made for passenger transport, we already have some ingame.

Dawnstealer

3y↑1

Oh no - Starliner's probably a couple years out, I would think. Could be wrong, but I would think it would herald in the passenger transport gameloop. As for the minigames, I'm not sure: it DOES play into the CIG notion that you should never be able to just sit there and make money. And while the pilot won't be back there working the mixmaster 6000, they'll likely need to hire people/NPCs who will. I also imagine there won't be a shortage of people wanting to perform a hit on the VIPs riding those things, so escorts will probably be needed too (also the troop carrier variant mentioned in the lore, although I think that became the C2)

Auzor

Parker:xgps

I don't own one, may take a job on one.

I think it would be fine and make a a lot of sense to start with just pilot skill and punctuality. Does everything need twelve variables to start off? Only if its easier to add a lot that way, or push the development forward.

I think people want overall progress as, long they fit within it. Rushing things isn't the answer but neither is resting on laurels.

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