“Pay The Piper”, the debut album of THE MAD TRIST literally gasps towards y… Read Full Bio ↴“Pay The Piper”, the debut album of THE MAD TRIST literally gasps towards you. As a vicious beast that can barely control itself. The record leaps upon you from the first second and in a high tempo one story unfolds into the other. THE MAD TRIST pulls you into the splashing virtual reality of this record. Nothing is what it seems. Nothing is what it is. Surprising turns oblige you to stay focussed, but surrender to the outrageous drive that sparkles of this record. Goose bump choirs, strings, church organs, heavy guitars, pounding basses, screaming loud or silent as a mouse. “Pay The Piper” has it all. A definite experience for both ear and spirit. Let the beast leap upon you and surrender to it.
With “Pay The Piper” as dream debut THE MAD TRIST has a bright future in its back pocket."
(Rock 'n Roll guru Eric Corton quoted)

The Mad Trist is:
Arthur von Berg: vocals & guitar
Jan Franzen: guitar & backing vocals
Luc Hameleers: bass
Daan Koene: drums

From Maastricht, The Netherlands.

The Witness
The Mad Trist Lyrics

We have lyrics for 'The Witness' by these artists:

AkiaveL Bénissez moi mon Père, parce que j′ai péché. Je confesse à…
Al-One Yeah And we back, and we back, and we back, and…
Alazka The moment I reacted When I dared to run away And I'm…
Amore Ad Lunam What if love still lingers in flames? Even if you walk…
Blaqk Audio Where is deliverance? Will you walk with, walk with me? W…
Clap Your Hands Say Yeah Oh well, the rain it never stops here Is it strange…
Damnations Day Distant and all the same, Pictures say that I'm already gone…
F.L.O.W. The Lyrical Genius Haven't dropped down for a minute Found a twentyfifth hour I…
Herself You don't have to held a gun to rule the…

K-Ruger Yeah I'm a witness So far Everything I done prayed for Every…
Kicked in the Head She was a witness, a silent player The missing link that…
MindMassage So just close your eyes for a moment And feel the…
Ravenscry I survived Thousands of years Under the sand Call me yo…
Redoak We can't ignore all that's damaged around us But we cannot…
Scapegoat And oh what a day it was Sun shining, blinding…
Slow. Pulse feat. Cathy Battistessa A bright world seen from eyes so small Testing the land,…
Solillaquists of Sound The Witness (Alexandrah): Le Témoin Si tu poses une questi…
Under The Flood I shed some light into this hopeless mess Shield the most…

Whyzdom Kyrie, kyrie eleison. Kyrie, kyrie eleison. Kyrie eleison.…

The lyrics are frequently found in the comments by searching or by filtering for lyric videos

TRACKS

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PT3M31S

08The Pleasure is Mine4:15

09Serenades3:23

10A Policy3:53

11Time is on My Side4:36

12Animals & Acrobats5:12

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Most interesting comments from YouTube:

M0du5Pwn3n5

@AllironTalks I'm still not sure.

Edith Finch would be worth it to me at twice the price, and it's already expensive per hour.

Meanwhile, I have definitely sunk hours and hours and hours into grindy games and then looked back and realized I was playing them compulsively, getting nothing out of them.

I wouldn't call those latter games better than Edith Finch just because they got me closer to the grave for less money.

In fact, if anything that's a point in Edith Finch's favor: I got more out of it in less time. I'd happily pay more, not less, for that. Time is precious!

M0du5Pwn3n5

2y↑1

Pretentiousness requires pretense, and I don't think the game merely has a pretense of being about these things - it genuinely is about them, and not just in a superficial way.

The game might talk about negative evidence for instance, and then it puts its money where its mouth is and gives you puzzles that are extremely hard to solve without seeking out negative evidence.

It talks about epiphany and then engineers an epiphany, about how some kinds of epiphanies cause you to see things in a new way - and you get to experience that.

I think what's going on is: (1) there's a lot of pretentious nonsense that sounds a lot like this and (2) most people who do want to talk about topics like this are afraid of being written off as #1, so they tent to couch it in jokes or add a layer of ironic detachment, which signals to the reader/viewer/player that the creator is AWARE of the risk of pretentiousness, and therefore that you can trust that no, that's not what's going on.

The orientalism I disagree with pretty strongly. In the game and in interviews, he talks about these concepts in a very thoughtful way, not in a superficial orientalist way. I don't think it is set dressing at all. When I've seen him discuss Zen in interviews, it is not at all the typical westernized version of "enlightenment" - in fact some of the discussions of enlightenment and awareness in the game even get at this a little bit.

I also don't think his "expressed goal is to show differing opinions". That's a very superficial notion of what he's trying to do, and I'm pretty sure it is literally not his expressed goal - I don't think he's ever expressed that. He's not just trying to say "wow, we all have different opinions" - the game is trying to wrestle with synthesizing these perspectives. And that IS something he's expressed as a goal, while also acknowledging that the game is about wrestling with it, not necessarily handing you a resolution he came to.

William Kubie

2y↑4

You are fairly harsh in this video, and I understand that somewhat. It is difficult to listen to people attack something that you love, especially when you feel they are coming from a place of ignorance. However, I do enjoy both Anderson's videos and The Witness, so I'm going to intrude where I have no business to share my thoughts.

Anderson does like puzzles. Some of his favorite games are purely puzzle based. Anderson does like being challenged, he plays games with harder puzzles than The Witness, and enjoys working through them. They are puzzles with more explicit rules, and more logic based solutions. Bashing him for not getting concepts is a bit low. The sound puzzles were hard for me too, and I feel they could have been explained better. I also felt that many of the things you brought up as "contradictions" quite simply weren't. It is very possible for things to be frustrating, and meant to be understood. They are not intuitive for all people.

What I think he does not enjoy, is the ambiguity, and "wasted" time.

He is reviewing the game, this usually necessitates looking at all of it's content. I highly doubt your opinion of him would be better if he said something along the lines of "I thought the optional stuff was boring, so I didn't do it. The game has no meaning." I feel that he would have liked the game more without his sense of obligation to find something to say about it in his review. That the lens he picked to experience it though may have ruined it for him. He didn't drive people who would have played it away from the game, so the pressure he felt likely only affected his experience. In that sense, I think it was a shame, but harmless.

He's not stupid or spiteful, he just enjoys things differently from you. He's not ignorantly bashing something for the sake of it, but not all concepts connect with all people. If you feel he didn't get the point of the game at all, that you are free to share what you believe the point to be, but I think the main problem crops up in that you stayed to enjoy the experience, and he stayed to discover specific author intent and meaning. (and wasn't satisfied)

The thing that really rubs me the wrong way, is when you start attacking him personally. Placing the comment that calls him an idiot repeatedly in your video in tacit agreement, the tangent about his link to his books (are people not allowed to self promote on their own channels? you do.) and your insistence that he remain objective when he is describing how he FEELS about the game. You claim that he is a fundamentally uncurious person, because he didn't find things interesting that you did. People not being interesting in things you find fascinating doesn't change their value. (The people or the things) You also assign to him opinions that he never states, simply assuming that it's what he meant. The reason that he doesn't cite specific comments about criticisms for the game is that he doesn't want to incite witch hunts. There are toxic elements in every community, and they will go after those people. You are terribly cruel about the things he puts effort into, and very condescending. It's in poor taste, and was difficult to sit through.

To you, there was joy in walking around the island and meditation on it's themes. To him, it was padding.

I liked the witness, I liked the philosophy and open ended nature of it's story. I don't really recommend it to many people. It's a departure from what they enjoy. It's not fun or meaningful to everyone.

His interpretation of the game is valid, even if you and I disagree.

The game is different things to different people, and that is (I think) one of it's points.

(I hope your channel does well, and that your effort is rewarded, sorry if I came off as condescending, it was not my intention.)

AllironTalks

2y↑2

Thank you for your comment! I'd like to share my thoughts a couple of things you mentioned:
1. Like I said, this was the ONLY video I've seen from Joseph Anderson and his views may have changed in the last six years. I'm not familiar with the chronology of his youtube catalogue, so I couldn't tell you his opinions of puzzle games before or after his video on The Witness. But going off of what he says in "A Great Game That You Shouldn't Play" alone, he doesn't seem to like puzzles or being challenged at all. He refuses to find something in this game to walk away with.
2. I'd be interested in what contradictions I brought up that you disagree with, as well as "you assign to him opinions that he never states"! (It's hard to convey over a text conversation, but this is genuine and not condescending.)
3. I didn't bash him for not getting concepts. Puzzle-wise he gets (almost all of) the concepts, he just complained that they were "mean" or "unfair" because he hadn't seen the beginning of the concept. I specifically said I don't blame him for not having a sense of pitch and for not understanding the sound puzzles.
4. I shared my reactions, saying "this is the point upon first watch through where I thought he was an idiot", but in the beginning of my video I said "it's not my intention to call him an idiot" so I apologize if I didn't make that clear.
5. People ARE of course allowed to promote things on their channels. My issue is that he makes SEVERAL /writing/ mistakes that someone trying to get you to buy their WRITING should not make. Mistakes like grammatical errors and phrases he believes are clever that absolutely turn people off to his writing. I would not buy a book from someone who used the phrase "like a fish with epilepsy, you can't even begin to grasp it". I know that my comments might seem cruel, but... It's inexcusable for someone who makes their money as a writer to make these mistakes AND refuse to engage with a text beyond a surface level. Speaking of which:
6. I claim he is a fundamentally incurious person because he REFUSED to engage with the concepts beyond a surface level, not because he didn't find them interesting like I did. I don't care if someone continues to watch Gangaji's videos after playing the Witness, it was the fact that he absolutely refused to see beyond the one idea he got in his head about her video.
7. I said in the video that his interpretation is not necessarily wrong, but that it's only one of many.
8. I can accept that he and I enjoy things differently. Unfortunately, his clickbait title and his strangely cruel comments about "something is rotten in this game" and "proof that jonathan blow is f*cking with us" are a call to action beyond a subjective review that come about BECAUSE he didn't enjoy it.
9. "he doesn't want to incite witch hunts" is fair, but it would be very easy to at least say exactly that (if that was his purpose in not bringing up evidence at all), but in this case I'd block out names and other identifying information.

My thoughts are kind of scattered here, so hopefully this all makes sense as it's a youtube comment and hasn't been through the editing process hahaha. Thank you again for your comment!

All comments from YouTube:

M0du5Pwn3n5

2y↑4

This was fantastic. The only part I thought was a little off-base was the "dollars per hour" thing. It's fine to acknowledge this is how some people measure worth, but it was strange to me in an otherwise thoughtful video that that was the end of it. I kept expecting "...but of course that's a silly, reductive way to look at the worth of media".

Is a three-hour movie better than a two-hour movie? Do you shop for books by page count per dollar?

ArCynic

@AllironTalks I don't think it even goes in the forward direction. There are many frugal people out there who even go out of their way to donate to creators who make well made but short and "free to play" games. The game just might be an hour long, but the value it adds to enrich you as a person can be worth even a ridiculously high sum like 50 bucks. The original comment is perfectly right about the "dollars per hour" thing being a little off-base.

M0du5Pwn3n5

AllironTalks

2y↑1

Thank you for your comment! I think what you're saying is totally fair. I'm an incredibly frugal person to my core and that absolutely influences the way I think about pricing. But I think (for me and my argument) it comes down to the form of entertainment, not the value of the art.

Perhaps comparing movies isn't the most useful here, because as you said measuring movies by time isn't helpful or indicative of their value. It's more the time spent at a movie theatre just to be the first person to see Avengers 7 or what have you, that isn't worth the price for every single movie. (And depending on the book I would be mad that I spent the same amount of money on 2 books and one of them had much less content! Hahaha. But books vary so much it's hard to say.)

I'll still stand by my argument for games though. If you pay 50 bucks for a game and only play an hour, that was a very expensive (and probably not fulfilling) hour. If you aren't having a good time, get a refund. Don't play 50 hours of a game and complain it wasn't worth the price tag.

To Kyle in the other response: I'm not sure it goes inversely. No, you wouldn't pay 40 bucks for snake, but you're also not expecting an emotionally or narratively fulfilling experience from snake that would take 20+ hours to reach. (...unless I'm playing the wrong version of snake. 😆)

KyleTheAwesome

2y↑1

Yeah, that measuring scale implies that all happiness and joy derived from any media in your whole life is exactly equal. I think it's not a good defense of the price of The Witness to say "he spent 50 hours on the game!" when you could spend 50 hours playing Snake and that would not justify a $40 price tag.

This is coming from someone who thinks the price of the witness is totally fair; I just think the point isn't well made.

Pedro Paulo

2y↑7

The Witness in my top 3 favourite games of all time, thank you so much for debunking that review, the part that always frustate more, probably because is a point I see in many other reviews is that the witness is glorify Flow and should be a Tablet game, its like, I like Flow, I probably would like the Witness if it was that way, but it wouldnt be near the top 3, the fact is an open world make really creates a sense of Discovery and makes more emjoyable when you finally figure it out, I'm one of the players that go to the town 1st and suposedly got frusteded with the difficult puzzles, but no I try a little bit and give up realising, but when I finally came back it was very rewarding. The Tablet argument also invalidades all the puzzles that use the enviroment (wich is more then half of the game, so wtf) even if was possible to make them as he said (didnt explain how tho) it wouldnt be the same because it wouldnt be hidding in the actual enviroment wich would be a clue. The sound jungle puzzles is deceptive because you are on a enviroment that is natural to hear birds, yes the whole game is silent and Yes there is speaker next to the puzzle, but that are the clues to lead the player to the A-ha moment, if I was playing Flow and sundenlly I start to hear bird noises would be way more on the nose.

The story part is the only part that I kind of agree with his point, but only kind of, 1st of all you are right he should said that this was subjective and Just his opinion, and also he doesnt explain very well, but I agree that is a simple story told in a complex way, but I dont think this is problem when the witness is a videogame and there gameplay to compensate to the lack of story. I think is valid to say on a witness review that if you play games because of the story, you probably wouldnt like the witness, not because the story is necessary bad, but because, in my opinion, it takes a backseat.

If my comment is to confusing, sorry english isnt my 1st language

EnoMagla

2y↑10

I feel like the repeated digs at the fact that he sells books is too mean spirited and would be more at home done to someone who uses the fact that they are a professional writer to try and give the impression of expertise to their game reviews or whatever else they might be trying to puff up and as far as i know that isn't the case with Joseph and so it simply feels uncivil

H3xon

2y↑2

Thanks so much for making this. I always knew this video was "rotten," and Joseph puts it, but couldn't quite place my finger on why. The Witness is my all-time favorite game, and it was clear to me that a lot of these arguments were made in very bad faith. However, I didn't really have the time to investigate my own feelings about the game in order to verbalize my issues. So, thank you for putting in that time. I'd like to note that Anderson heavily praised Steven's Sausage Roll, a game Blow said was the best puzzle game of 2016. It's not really fair to say he dislikes puzzles. I think puzzle is too broad a term for that, and he dislikes whatever subgenre of puzzles appear in The Witness, though I don't have a name for them. Anyway, thanks again!

Edit: Also the "videos used" link in the description doesn't work. Maybe the playlist is private?

AllironTalks

2y↑1

Thank you for your comment!!!! I'll have to respond to the whole of it soon. Thanks for letting me know about the playlist! I'll have it fixed ASAP.

KyleTheAwesome

2y↑3

I'll push back on the criticism that Anderson doesn't like puzzle games: he does like puzzle games, he loves Baba is You and Stephen's Sausage Roll and those games are a lot harder puzzle games than the Witness. The thing you have an issue with in the gameplay section, I think, is how stubborn he is when he's been taught he shouldn't be stubborn when solving these puzzles.

(edit) I'll also point out that I don't think the point about Joseph being uncreative is fair: I think his problem with The Witness's story is that he sees it as something that wasn't intended to have any firm answers, and was mostly intended to "make you think". He really enjoys Edith Finch, another story that is told in an obtuse and convoluted way, because he sees the ambiguity there as something with an intended answer by the developers. Basically, Joe doesn't like when the burden of meaning is shifted from the developer to the player in a "it means whatever you feel like it means" way.

Prestidigititis

2y↑5

Thank you thank you thank you for this video. It articulates so well the problems I have with Anderson's take on the entire endeavor of playing/making/engaging with The Witness, even stuff that had bugged me at the edges of my understanding but never rose up to consciousness for me. I tried to engage with Anderson in the comments of his video about how ungenerous and judgmental his four-sectioned story chart was, and how horribly illogical he was being in deciding that Blow was trying to fuck with his players, just because the complexity of the game wasn't something he was willing to engage with. He responded to me a couple of times, but mostly I got the sense he was not interested in thoughts beyond his own. I don't think I've watched that video since then.

I'll check out the rest of your videos soon. Again, thanks for making this.

Spirit Electric

2y↑3

I have just watched the intro to this video. That is all I have watched so far. I plan to finish the video, but I feel compelled to write this first. The night before this video released. I had a dream about The Witness. Before that I had played the game to the base ending, and then allowed myself to watch analyses. One of those was the Joseph Anderson video, which I also didn't like, finding it to be a too caustic take on it. Then the other night, I had that dream. The dream goes like this:

I'm playing the game, and I finally do it. I solve every puzzle, every square, every obelisk, EVERYTHING. Once this happens a cut scene plays as a station appears in the center of the map. A german scientist's voice is heard saying that the meaning of life has been found and that I have the chance to find it in the station. I rush towards it, but right as I'm about to get there, a guy spawns in and runs past me, yelling "Aw HELL YEAH!". He runs in before I can and the doors to the station close. I try to get in, but all I get is the message, "Sorry! Only room for one!".

And that was the other secret ending of the game, though I personally do not know what actually happens when you do every single puzzle.

AllironTalks

2y↑1

I'm pretty sure that's what happens actually

jj doughboy

2y↑1

While I'm aware of the story. To me i would play this simply for the joy of playing a game with increasing difficulty and complexity of puzzles and 100ing(im bit of a completionist not a achievement/trophy hunter) because I don't think I would fully be able to understand the narrative.

Cheff - ihn

2y↑3

I don't watch a lot of Joseph Anderson's vid i can't really afford a lot of games especially AAA's and it's not really fun watching a video of a game that you haven't played but i do watch a lot of his streams.

What i can tell you is Joe loves puzzle games and even as far as putting Baba is you as his GOTY pick that year and his favorite puzzle game of all time.

Twak

2y↑4

I definitely had the same reaction to this video when I first saw it, not just because I like the Witness but because, as you showed, it's full of contradictions that make it feel like he doesn't know what his point is. He misses the mark so often for this game and instead of admitting he's not into it, blames it on the developers. There's stuff to be mad about regarding Blow, but I don;t think slow moving platform is one.

A bit of a funny thing - Joseph Anderson has another video titled "Subjectivity is Implied," which IIRC was about how he, as a reviewer, can be assumed to be passing subjective statements. I'm definitely paraphrasing. But It feels disingenuous when the video and its thesis are titled as a call to action, or when he makes claims like something being bad game design without diving deeper into any reasons why the dev might have made a decision in good faith. I always hated the tablet game line and I feel like he might've popularized that criticism. He never really extends that olive branch either. Like, if his statements are subjective, why doesn't Spira simply have a subjective view? Why isn't Blow's definition of filler a subjective statement?

Also I just hate the word Pretentious. It feels like a lazy claim to make.

monke

2y↑1

“He obviously hates puzzle games”

He literally loves Steven Sausage Roll lmao

Nick Lambert

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought Anderson's video was a weird one. It sucked seeing it get so popular since it will always come up when searching the Witness now. Videos like his often confuse potential players about what the game is really about. People might miss out on some truly awesome moments. I played the Witness for the first time back in 2017 and had a really cool personal moment. I struggled for a few days on the challenge. Overall, it probably took me about 25 tries. I ended up watching the 2017 total solar eclipse at work just to go home and beat the challenge and watch another solar eclipse. The coincidence blew me away but really helped bring home the mindfulness the game espoused. The universe is infinitely full of interactions between ourselves and our environment and it's pretty damn cool to pay attention to them. Thank you for the great video.

laosioor

Great video!
I hope you get more recognition for your excellent work here.

I've been thinking about making a video essay about The Witness (since it is my favorite game of all time), and your video is a big inspiration for me, thank you.

AllironTalks

I can't wait to see your video!!!

Dit is Emile

2y↑3

Personally ( and I feel the need to express that I have played it ) I found the Witness a bit pretentious and some of the things within it kind of reeked of orientalism to me, but I do agree with your criticism of this specific review as well.

M0du5Pwn3n5

2y↑1

Nick Lambert

2y↑1

It's been a while since I've done a playthrough and really paid attention to the audio logs. Spoilers, especially the ones in the caves. I believe the underground logs have some lines of dialogue calling out how contradictory some people's views were throughout their lives and how a scientific viewpoint begins to sound rather spiritual with a certain perspective. I'm sure a good deal of thought went into picking out the quotes but to me they all seem to serve the purpose of hitting the big easter egg theme in the game. You get that dopamine for finding a secret and the only reward is some other human's musings on science, philosophy, or spirituality. And in the end, they're really not all that different. The quotes sure do blend together with my foggy memory. The videos are the same way, albeit a little more memorable. Is it pretentious? I don't really think so since the audio logs seem to serve a different purpose than what people typically ascribe to them. I would agree that it can undervalue some really interesting quotes and sources while also leaving out some good ones. But the underground 4th wall breaking logs make it feel like they knew their audio log selection would never be perfect anyway. The whole use of audio logs with quotes feels very human to me.

AllironTalks

2y↑2

That's also totally fair. I think it's hard to give a complete picture of a whole religion or school of thought in a video game, but it certainly got me more interested in learning about Buddhist philosophy, and I can see how it feels like setdressing in many ways.

AllironTalks

2y↑2

That's totally fair. I found it more fair than the average western use of Buddhist quotes/imagery, especially as it included quotes on religion from many cultures and religions. I agree that some more scientific quotes from non-western views would round it out, and I don't know enough about many of the authors of the audio logs to know what other fields they may be classified as.

Dit is Emile

2y↑1

Sorry for adding on more to it!

I also think it's also just the feeling of Buddhism being used as what feels like 'setting dressing' without it being paid its full proper respect.

I can definitely live with it, but it's just something that I don't really like about games like these.

2 More Replies...

GhastGuardian

2y↑1

Dropped a like ahead of time but now I've gotta play the game before I watch the rest!

Keely Parker

2y↑6

I’ve seen that Joseph Anderson video like 5 times so wow am I about to watch the absolute shit out of this

Carl Philipp Gaebler

2y↑1

Wow, the bits about "You shouldn't play this crossword puzzle, because I couldn't figure out some of the answers" were kinda weird

EVP's Happy Happy Hospital

2y↑1

For the love of all things sacred nobody tell this man about the Myst franchise.

Mr_Ree

2y↑1

Great video. Well done. Your cat is hilarious.

Matthias J. Déjà

2y↑5

Btw, I am super convinced that the name of the game comes from the term "witness consciousness". It's quite a common term in the sorts of topics that are touched by Gangaji, Rupert Spira and even the contemporary field of Positive Psychology -- which in turn overlaps heavily with the other ones. So I agree that "witness consciousness" is the reason here. It's just too obvious.

Erick Graziani

2y↑3

Great video, I can't wait for more. I agree with everything, I only thought that you used the line "he likes his writings and wants to sell his book" way too many times and I would be cautious with your hair going in your eyes like that. Cheers and I hope this video gets the attention it deserves. I watched almost all of the other Joseph Anderson's videos and the witness one is by far the worst.

Matthias J. Déjà

2y↑3

Thank you so much for exposing all the ignorance in Anderson's terrible review.

Daniel Pajor

2y↑6

I'll be back... after I play The Witness.

Urn

2y↑3

That is some sick urban camo ya got on

AllironTalks

2y↑2

Thank you, it's from goodwill

William Kubie

2y↑4

AllironTalks

2y↑2

am hm

2y↑1

Great vid subscribed

AllironTalks

2y↑1

thank you!!!❤️❤️❤️

CheesecakeMilitia

2y↑2

So happy to finally see something countering this wildly popular uncritical and hypocritical analysis. While there's a lot to be said about YouTube video essay game analysis and its blind spots, this video in particular has been infuriating for years. His "Jonathan Blow is fucking with us" argument is the most petulant refusal to engage with a text, and it's upsetting how many people take this reasoning at face value.

I do sympathize with his frustrations as during those first few months after The Witness' release, the collective internet had no idea how to wrestle with the game's themes and antinarrative structure. I, too, was upset by the game as I had built myself up expectations of a secret underlying story where there was none. Part of this was just how influential Portal was in linking first-person puzzle games with straightforward mystery storytelling (I really need to go back and play Myst and Riven for comparison to what expectations were like prior to 2007), but another part was that Blow's previous game Braid had a surprisingly coherent narrative structure (when considering its secret ending) that any 10th grader could analyze in a book report. I did just that in 10th grade and loved it. The Witness was confounding by comparison with no characters or objects to attach significance to, and it pulling a variety of famous quotes and literal lectures made it feel like it was, well, lecturing you. But when trying to find higher level analyses of the game it was so distressing to see the MOST recommended video being one that actively hated the game and spent 40 minutes failing to comprehend surface-level readings. I was so happy to finally see Electron Dance's video seriously tackle the game years later - really all of that channel is a gem.

Only umbrage I would take with your argument is the price-analysis tangent at 1:12:08 - I really loathe this angle even if it makes a good point against Anderson. For one thing, I think it's valid to play and enjoy a long game and still be annoyed by filler and perceive the retrospective "value" of the game as being lessened because of it. But I mostly hate price arguments about games because it limits the medium tremendously. I'm more angry at Anderson for bringing up price because a critic/analysis person really shouldn't care about that kinda thing unless they're explicitly a consumer recommendation journo - which Anderson is not. He is bothered that he spent money on something he didn't enjoy, and that capitalistic ire really informs some of his most inane arguments (like how the game would be better as an iPad Flow clone). It's worth noting that The Witness did eventually come to iPad - for $9.99, which I think is a reflection of how undervalued games are in the mobile space (it's still $39.99 on Steam and consoles, though it does go on sale for $9.99 fairly often these days). And I wish more devs had the courage to charge more for their games, because games are expensive and risky AF to develop. And Steam's refund system actively disincentivizes games from running shorter than 2 hours (which is great for consumers, but bad for the medium IMO). One of my favorite games of all time is the 15-minute-long Thirty Flights of Loving because it does so many tricks to push the boundaries of the game narrative medium. I would love if a big budget studio felt confident in putting out an experience of a similar length without regard for economics. It was actually kinda relieving to hear reviewers COMPLAIN about The Last of Us Part 2 being too long (not that I necessarily agree with the take, but it's nice that we've evolved to a point in video game consumer-centric reviewing where we can say that!) All that's to say that while pulling out the hard math and calculating dollars per hour is fun, it's an exercise I usually resist using in an argument because doing so recognizes the economic value critique of games as fundamentally valid - which it definitely is not when we're trying to analyze the text of a game (especially a game whose text, if anything, encourages detaching oneself from such economic fixations).

Zuko

2y↑2

The dragon's been slain!?

solarplexus7

2y↑2

Some points hit better than others, but I appreciate seeing this pompous guy taken down a peg.

Synth

2y↑1

Well, I'm sorry for being an idiot who doesn't use pen and paper to play most of The Witness :(

AllironTalks

2y↑1

Didn't say you were an idiot if you didn't use pen and paper. If you didn't need a pen and paper, I'm happy for you! But one can't complain that a puzzle is "impossible" if they haven't used their resources.

AllironTalks

2y↑2

@Pedro Paulo thank you! I'll say we used a LOT of paper partially because Chris has aphantasia, so he has no "mind's eye" to create and manipulate pictures or visual ideas, so in order to communicate with HIM about how I think a puzzle should be solved, I'd have to draw out ideas on paper.

Pedro Paulo

@AllironTalks that is very smart and creative

AllironTalks

2y↑2

On the particularly hard tetris shapes, we used dice! We kept the shapes separate using different color dice so we didn't accidentally mix up the squares.

Pedro Paulo

I didnt use very often pencil and paper, I only use on this cases
in the checkboard negative tetris puzzle in the marsh
The RGB room in town
Shipwreck

It not pen an paper, but is similar, I screenshoot the videos patterns

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ArCynic

2y↑1

I really like this video, almost as much as I hated Anderson's when it came out. Super excited for more content from you! (P.S. please upload a fucking let's play of 'The Looker' already)

AllironTalks

If this channel ever gets big enough to warrant having a second channel (which is unlikely!) then I'll upload a let's play of "The Looker". hahahaha
Thank you for your comment!

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