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Most interesting comments from YouTube:

@VASAviation

16w↑336

New Update on the Tokyo Haneda accident.

After the incredible amount of comments in the previous 2 videos, I have edited a VASAviation style video incuding the airport animation now that the aircraft positions are a bit more clarified after 3 days since the accident. Hope this throws light to some doubts that I have read amongst thousands of comments. Anyway, the investigation is ongoing and more information will be officially released.

A new information released that an airport NOTAM reported the STOP BAR for runway 34R on Intersection C5 was out of service.

VASAviation will be following the investigation very closely and will update the video descriptions, pinned comments or making new videos if considered necessary for the audience.

The point of any aviation investigation is to avoid future similar incidents or accidents so does this channel as well sharing the procedure and the results. Thank you.

@rickrickard2788

16w

Excellent job, Victor. This clarifies much, and actually pretty much holds with the things I was able to learn over the past few days & posted about. Everyone tries to throw out their ideas on what happened, and speculations- the mass majority NEVER do this out of malice, but out of a genuine concern, as to how in the hell something like this could have happened, so that next, we can begin to toss out SOLUTIONS- so something like this might never happen again.

NO, we are not the "authorities". That should be blatantly obvious- we're concerned citizens, enthusiasts, AARF, ATC's, Private & Commercial Pilots.

You trolls who come on here to attack posters as some kind of, "threat" to the safety of, say, the Captain who made the mistake, to the point that we'd be putting his "live in danger", or suggesting "suicide"?

I'm gonna destroy you... with words. Imma call you out. Imma embarrass the living hell out of you. And I'm going to make you appear, as exactly what you are- A threat to innocent people. I'm not gonna play games with you, and I'm NEVER gonna be intimidated by your idiocy.

Not only will I defend my own posts? But those who are also posting as they should, and always do. But above all, I'll be here defending Victor, and other channels who cover all this information. So if y'all think you're gonna harm or shutdown people or channels?

Good Luck.

(Felt I needed to address some of the idiocy I saw over the past few days Victor. If you feel this post isn't something you want on your channel? Please, feel free to delete it, with ZERO hard feelings, whatsoever.)

@rickrickard2788

16w

@@LeTangKichiro I agree with your assessment for the most part? And normally, I don't give regular trolls the time of day.

However, these people I'm speaking about, are quite different. These are people out trying to destroy channels & people on YouTube. Maybe "troll" was the wrong word to use...

Let me copy/paste what just one said on my post, maybe it will help clarify what I'm talking about:

@SiSi-ju1xk
16 hours ago
0:28 Where is the audio.. . very bad .. spreading misinformation to make sure a pilot gets killed by provoking the public.
================================

This is a post specifically created to get my account shutdown. Or possibly even Victors. It's basically an attack, not a "troll".

Having lost accounts many times before? I had to learn more than I ever wanted about things of this nature.

But for regular trolls? You're 1000% correct. Not worth our time & effort. Better to band our heads against a brick wall, lol

@kingmak2233

16w

Thank you for your animation.

Thank you for showing the C5 location in the animation.

Yesterday, I have already posted in some blogs about the (A) and (B) below.

(A) the coastal guard plane's pilot did not see the C5 sign.

(B) in an international airport, the coastal guard plane's pilot does not have excellent communication ability in English. In Japan, Coast Guard is to protect the coastline. That means the personnels are navally or militarily trained. Of course, Japan navy and military are trained mainly in Japanese. They use Japanese in their communication mainly. For example, China's airforce/army people communicate in Chinese. Russia's army talks in Russian in their practices. Because of the above, the pilot of JA722A (coast guard plane) did not have good understanding of the instructions from the controlling tower's officials.
Right now, the possibility of the Coast Guard pilot didn't see the C5 sign still holds.

By the animation and and the diagram of the animation by VASAviation here, how can a pilot approaching that way knows that around 100 meters more of rolling the plane before left turning to reach C5 holding point?

As for the passenger plane, JAL 516, it is possible that the 3 pilots could not notice the stationary Coast Guard plane. It is because that there are 5 lines of lights at the landing spot of the runway. These lights may confuse with the Coast Guard plane’s rear lights.

The saying of 5 lines of lights at the spot of plane landing of the runny way of Haneda Airport can be verified by watching the video using the link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbmHIwNSoi8&t=797s

Clearly in the video, from 5:54 to around 6:55, there are 5 lines of light. Then, there are only 3 lines of light after that.

Are there ground radars at the airport? Still, the officials at the controlling tower may not notice a plane (the Coast Guard plane) has entered the runway in a short time of 40 seconds as they are busy all the time.

Furthermore, regarding the leaving of the main pilot of the JAL 516, reportedly he was the last person leaving the plane 18 minutes after the 2 planes crashed. Eighteen minutes period is rather long. So, would VASAviation compose a timeline as to when the first door and slide deployed etc after the crash? Thank!

@trilight3597

16w

Yes but no.

RAAS (Runway Awareness and Advisory System) only works to notify if they're approaching a runway, talking off/landing on a short runway, talking off/landing on a taxiway, remaining feet and etc. though this is usually installed on bigger commercial aircraft.

TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) only works in the air and is usually inhibited below 1000ft. This system is only required on aircraft of a certain size.

Airport Surface Detection Equipment, Model X (ASDE-X) is something that 35 major airports in the US has. Which is why aircraft has to switch their TCAS to TA (Traffic Avoidance/Alert) and not off. Normally would be in TA/RA in flight.

It was at night. And the normally red hold lines for the runaway were inoperable.
Pilot Flying should check for landing aircraft before entering any runway.
Pilot Not Flying should being listening to radio and double checking the Pilot Flying.
Tower heard the correct read back from both and expected the small craft to hold.
The landing aircraft didn't see the craft or its landing lights. In addition; due to correct read back by the offending aircraft that they had to reason to go around.

All comments from YouTube:

@VASAviation

16w↑336

@x6ftundx

16w↑29

I read that as well but you can hear the tower give the instruction and it was read back as well. Hold at C5, not enter the runway and cleared to take off. that's the real issue. I feel so bad because the A350 probably couldn't even see the other plane on the runway. Probably just looked like any other lights until smoosh and saw the fireball is when they found out.

@buni.mp4

16w↑26

As far as I know the stop bar is only used at low visibility. Since it was a clear weather with 30km of visibility, the stop bar wouldn't be activated anyway. It maybe could have prevented the accident though.
The official AIP of Tokyo Haneda Airport says:
"Stop Bar Operations:
1. Stop Bar Lights will be operated when the visibility of the lowest RVR of the RWY16L/34R is at or less than 600m.
2. Stop Bar Lights on TWY C1, C2, C13 and C14 are controlled individually by ATC.
3. Stop Bar Lights on TWY C3 THRU C12 are not controlled individually by ATC.
4. During the period of Stop Bar Lights operated, TWY C3 THRU C12 are not available for depature aircraft."

@jameshisself9324

16w↑17

@@x6ftundx But note there was no 'hold short of Runway' message. If the crew were not familiar since they heard 'number 1' they may have assumed the instruction was 'taxi into position and hold' which is NOT clearance for takeoff and holding is what they were doing. This will likely come down to some controller blame as well. The audio of the controller instruction was not very good at all.

@didyuknow

16w↑5

note for future that applies to similar issues: you cannot continue saying we will use this for lessons learned. To me it is more like lessons unlearned and disregarded. bypass actions put in place to avoid accidents at peoples life and your jobs at risk even if an accident does not happen. without the light at those stops the tower folks ground management crew should have been watching the local cameras at each intersection like a hawk all the time as if their family lives depended on it.

@petertweed83

16w↑30

@@jameshisself9324 from what others say, "hold short" isn't used in Japan. Arguably it is implicit as you shouldn't taxi beyond your cleared point. In countries that use it, it is to reinforce the point.
The Captain & Dash-8 aircraft were based at this airport so he should have been very familiar with their patterns and layout. "Number 1" feels odd to me as only arrivals get a number like this in the UK but as this was normal practice here, it wouldn't have made the captain think he could taxi onto the runway.

Elsewhere reported that the incursion monitoring system was working and was flashing at the controller but the controller wasn't looking at it.

59 More Replies...

@user-be7yw7jk1f

16w↑83

It is incredibly sad to know these people are the ones who were going to help out those affected by the earthquake. My deep condolences.

@narsplace

16w

They weren't going to help with the earthquake.

No one realises how long Japan is, they would most likely be helping out in areas around Toukyo, Chiba, Yokohama, Shizuoka, Aichi.

It not that place is to far to fly to but flying there were flying around doing search and rescue is a big toll on the workers.

Also if something bad happens on the east side of Japan then you would have less resources on the east side.

@derser541

16w

@@narsplace They had aid supplies onboard, clown.

@gordon1545

16w↑585

I'll be very interested to find out what the coastguard pilot and co-pilot's workload had been in the preceding hours and days.

@kagenkei8888

16w↑35

very interesting ... this makes the point !

@sighfly2928

16w↑90

Yes, would definitely be interesting. The thought of them being overworked due to the recent earthquake & tsunami came to mind immediately.

@petertweed83

16w↑35

Reported elsewhere that the captain flew an 8 hour sortie the day before in this aircraft on fisheries protection, and wasn't originally rostered for the accident day (then the earthquake hit)

@LastMS

16w↑9

Seems like the crew was flying 2 round trips to Niigata to deliver disaster relief goods just about 24hours before the accident

@jimw1615

16w↑14

This flight for the JCG Dash 8 was their 3rd mission of the day according to other reports.

36 More Replies...

@fastica

16w↑157

RIP to the 5 who died, but it was really a miracle that this didn't turn worse.

@jadall77

16w

I thought when i first first saw the video that likely they were caught on the burning plane.

@michaelroberts1064

16w↑1

the cabin crew of Japan air were the heroes of this story. also glad to see nobody was carrying luggage as they filed the aircraft

@mikeybhoutex

16w

@@michaelroberts1064Not to mention the passengers themselves. Have you seen that other evacuation video where everyone's getting their stuff from the overhead bins? Appalling.

@FoxJulee-sz3km

16w↑361

For those complaining about the audio quality of the radio transmissions; that is not what it sounds like to aircrew and controllers. If you ever get a chance, listen in on a headset aboard an aircraft (or ground/tower/center/etc if you're lucky enough to be granted access) and you'll see what I mean. LiveATC and others are recorded from a 3rd party ground station, hence the trash audio.

@Urbicide

16w↑6

These recordings sound like CB radio squelch.

@georgechoquette5735

16w↑16

It's still difficult to hear them and they speak way too fast, when unnecessary to speak fast.
Count the number of requests to say again and misunderstandings.
It's outrageous and a huge safety problem.
BTW, they still use AM technology.

@TrainerAQ

16w↑16

Yea Live ATC gets it's recordings from a Walkie Talkie and it's nothing compared to $10K radio we have on the airplane.

@goatman86

16w↑35

All these years I just thought pilots speak how doctors write.

@bunglejoy3645

16w↑3

Min d you the number of times I've spoken to a certain customer service and I've had to say I'm sorry I can't understand you can you speak more slowly please then when I've got angry at their errors they dont like it its hard when people insist at speaking that fast it sounds like they are participing in a world record attempt and that's on a phone system not radios

17 More Replies...

@Elliebellisima

16w↑659

For the A350 to have possibly ran over the C8 and still remain relatively intact is truly a testament to the engineering and size comparison I think.

@AaronShenghao

16w↑19

It would be a different story if the Japan Airlines is a smaller plane... like another C8...
Physics says F=Ma... the smaller the M... the higher the acceleration... and acceleration is what kills people and breaks things...

@dann5480

16w↑17

It's simple physics.

@mi___

16w↑37

true. even the massive boeing 747(singapore flight 006) split into several pieces after it collided with construction vehicle. its amazing this plane remained intact after crashing into another plane around 1/3 of its size

@MeerkatADV

16w↑25

I think the nose gear being off the ground saved a lot of the impact on the A350.

@dann5480

16w↑20

@@mi___If I recall correctly, there wasn't just one construction vehicle but several heavy vehicles like cranes, bulldozers and rollers. Compared to a small aircraft that is a lot of mass to crash into.

59 More Replies...

@ac3__583

16w↑268

Coast guard’s plane was cleared to hold 34R at C5, as #1 priority to enter runway,, he was never cleared to enter the runway… sad they even read back the whole instructions, even saying hold at C5…. Absolutely avoidable accident, may his crew RIP!!

@amorporchile2958

16w↑15

situational awareness problem.

@trilight3597

16w↑54

@@amorporchile2958 More like expectation bias.
For some reason and it's been happening a lot.
When they're told to line up and wait or hold, some pilots just expect they're cleared for take off. Also because it happens to often.
The airport hold lights that normally light up red were also inoperable at the time.
The only hope that they had was for the A350 to go around which they could not.

@thud9797

16w↑14

There was about 8-10 seconds after the JAL was cleared to land and JCG made the first radio call. Question is did they hear that transmission? Finding the CVR on JCG is paramount.

@babyj4154

16w↑5

@@trilight3597yea but I can imagine the pilots of the A350 not seeing the small Dhc because of the cluster of lights. Do you know if the -8 was configured for take off? (lights)

@american3502

16w↑21

@@thud9797it doesn't even matter if they heard it, because none of the transmissions indicate that the DHC was cleared to line up

48 More Replies...

@aixtom979

16w↑28

One sad detail seems to be that the coast guard plane MA722/Mizunagi was the only plane that survived the tsunami at Sendai Airport in 2011. So it was seen as somewhat of a symbol of resilience and reconstruction since then.

@reaper_delta177

16w

Ironic, so the accident plane was a yesterday's survivor - now today's casualty. 😞

@davehue9517

16w↑58

Condolences to all involved... terrible tragedy to be a victim rushing to help other victims... this earthquake has taken a heavy toll...🇺🇸🇺🇸🇯🇵🇯🇵

@_al1k_

16w↑142

Rip to the 5 cost guard members who passed away while serving their country and the victims affected by the earthquakes 🙏🏽🙏🏽

@generalrendar7290

16w↑76

It's sad that nobody spotted the error. My heart breaks for the lost crewmen. Prayers from the US.

@alexbrands11

16w↑1

Не нужны ваши мольбы из США..Вы как помолитесь, так от них сразу куча проблем в других странах!! Лучше за деда Джо помолись,чтобы он не помер до выборов!!🤣🍥🤣

@crystalwings4520

16w↑3

@@alexbrands11You sounds so disrespectful, ngl. We're talking about plane collision, not politics.

@Flexximilian

16w↑5

@@alexbrands11 Another russian revealing his rotten character.

@tabaks

16w↑3

@@Flexximilian they all are.

@charmio

16w↑1

It's rather odd it even happened at all with todays modern tech. I thought there were already systems in place to monitor for runway incursions but clearly not... I'd bet anyone $5m that they'll be in place at every major airport withing the next 5 years after this.

1 More Replies...

@grasstreefarmer

16w↑22

Its amazing anyone survived. I first thought the A350 had only clipped the C8 on its side but it hit it square on. The composite fuselage really held together and seemed to resist the fire better than aluminium.

@skayt35

16w

Both A350 engines took a severe hit from the Dash-8 wings, so the aircraft were lined up almost perfectly.

@haroldlipschitz9301

16w

Not only did the A350 take the hit incredibly well but the #2 engine was still running despite significant damage. The Trent XWB is also built very tough apparently...

@juliannatividad9920

16w

based from the photos/videos circulation online, you could also see the A350’s nose being crumpled/destroyed before it burned down. im assuming that was hit by the Dash-8’s tail fin. i might be wrong though!

@cityplanner3063

16w↑7

What is most impressive is the modern slides. They are able to withstand heat for so much longer.

@Fir3Chi3f

16w↑8

Thank you for putting this together and sharing it with other creators for discussion and review! I really appreciate your efforts :)

@piparalegal2019

16w↑53

Thank you for these updates on this tragedy. I am horrified that, despite proper readback, the captain of the Coast Guard Dash-8 did not hold at C5 and, instead, proceeded onto the runway. My thoughts are with his deceased colleagues and those injured during the evacuation of the A350. I sincerely hope they are able to get the full story out of the Coast Guard captain.

@repatch43

16w↑2

As is always the case there are more than one cause to this situation. Were the runway incursion lights working (I think they were?) Did the ground conflict system not warn the controllers? Why didn't the A350 pilots see the dash 8 sitting on their runway?

@xheralt

16w↑14

As noted above, the STOP BAR at C5 was inoperative. NOTAM aside, PIC may have had no idea they had entered an active runway! I think there's an argument to be made about not sending aircraft to that intersection at night when the lights don't work! They should have been set up for a full-length takeoff, even if they didn't need the distance. Tower has some responsibility for this!

@peterneumann7145

16w↑8

The captain that survived will have to live with this and presumably give more statements. Series of errors on the face of it. As for seeng the aircraft on the runway from the incoming plane , no chance. Too many things happening. All runways are dangerous places. Live ammunition literally. Some could be made safer as well.

@repatch43

16w↑3

@@xheralt Well, there's one hole of the swiss cheese

@j134679

16w↑4

@@xheralt they're an earthquake relief supply mission, so priority. Was even given a number 1 sequence while another plane was already at C1.

14 More Replies...

@brucesmith9144

16w↑74

Still amazed that everyone aboard the JAL A350-900 evacuated alive.

@colinpovey7923

16w↑2

But why didi it take so long to evacuate. Very worrisome.

@djenei2564

16w↑5

only 3 slides were used or something like that

@andresiaw7895

16w↑2

very impressive indeed... perhaps most of the passengers are Japanese and they follow rules and order pretty well.....

@AO968

16w↑14

@@colinpovey7923 Long? It was even shorter than is common. During training, it took more time for everyone to leave (80 seconds, IIRC). This didn't even take 50, and it's all because the passengers left their luggage on the plane and did what they were told.

@dawkt2794

16w↑9

@@colinpovey7923possibly the least intelligent comment I’ve ever seen.

8 More Replies...

@Thunderbird-2

16w↑4

Accidents that cost lives are always sad.
But it seems to sting a little worse when it involves people that were engaged in rescue/relief operations for the Earthquake victims.

@paullam2310

16w↑1

Thank you VASA for uploading high quality content, hopefully will not happen those accidents again

@flightmaster999

16w↑6

I've done quite a few night landings at an international airport (many years ago) and you can hardly see anything. You can't see other aircraft in the air, only their red and green wingtip lights. Between the lights, it's totally dark. An aircraft parked on a runway is not that easy to see either if you are coming from behind. The red and green lights are there, but they are pretty easily confused with the runway and taxi lights.

May the victims RIP and the surviving pilot help with the investigation. Really sad

@Jabanana

16w

Thank you. So many people questioning the A350 pilots thinking they should have easily seen the dash 8 on the runway. Air Canada 759 nearly had a similar fate back in 2017.

@agavictoria

16w

@@JabananaI was just talking to my husband about that near miss in San Francisco. It was the same situation!

@Bill_Woo

16w↑3

I have tremendous gratefulness for the channel and the hard work done on this video, and many, many prior times. I would suggest a tweak to the tantalizing color coding used here with multiple aircraft. Starting at 0:50 I was confused trying to match crafts with colors and captions. Possible improvements: every 722 transmission in pink, BOTH incoming and outgoing; every primary approach craft's in blue; and so forth. Or, simpler, or in addition, a small 722 symbol, 516 symbol, 166 symbol.

@tomcurda4203

16w↑1

This incident is remarkably similar to something that happened at LAX on Feb 1, 1991. A Skywest Fairchild Metroliner was cleared onto the runway and to some extent forgotten about. Meanwhile an USAir B737-300 was cleared to land on the same runway. The Metroliner did not have its strobes on and was lost in the runway lighting. The 737 crashed into the Metroliner. All 12 on the Metroliner and 23 aboard the 737 were lost. Watch "Mayday" episode Cleared for Disaster.

@wisanu99

16w↑13

From some pictures of the A350, I think the front wheel hasn’t touch down yet. The nose cone of 350 has the T that looks like it struck the high T tail of the dash 8 squarely. That means the belly of 350 was slightly raised at an angle. Once the T tail was taken out the belly of 350 just crushed down on the dash 8. Both engine cowlings of 350 have a straight cut indicating the engines took out the wings of dash 8, (or push them). 350 kind of belly flopped at an angle onto the dash 8.

@wiredforstereo

16w↑1

I believe you are correct. With the T tail and the high wings of the Dash 8 as well as location on the runway and the video, the only explanation is that the A350 nose had not yet touched down.

@benjaminmuller8583

16w↑2

Yep I think this is exactly what has happend. And I would say this is one of the main contributing factors it didn`t turn even worse, especially regarding the A350 and its crew & pax. If you compare the height of the t-tail of an DHC-8 300 to the height of the cockpit of an A350 on ground you find the following: DHC-8 300 at the top of the t-tail 7.49 meters and A350 cockpit somewhere between 6 an 7 meters. Assuming the A350 had been completely on ground with the nose wheel, the cockpit would have been smashed by the t-tail of the DHC-8 300 with uncertain but certainly worse outcome. As the radom of the A350 hit the t-tail of the DHC-8 300 we can assume the main gear touched down, while the nose wheel was approximately 2.5 to 3.5 meters away from the ground (t-tail of DHC-8 300 at 7.49 meters and radom of A350 at 4 to 5 meters from ground) and the whole plane was still remaining in the angle of attack during flaring starting to lower the nose...

@scollyutube

16w

How about the starboard engine instead? The magnified video looks to show the Airbus's nose passing the right hand side of the Dash Fuselage before the fireball.

@LastMS

16w↑62

according to japanese news:
1) coast guard plane had no clearance to enter runway. this was also read back by JCG pilots
2) Haneda has a runway incursion detection system in the tower. if a airplane enters a runway the runway on the screen turns yellow. the controller in the tower seems to have missed that warning
3) Stop bar lights are not used during good visibility at Haneda. Now you can discuss if night /darkness counts as low/bad visibility or not. but NOTAM states that they where out of service. so the pilot should have known and take special attention.
4) the Coast guard pilot in his newest statement says he is sure that he got clearance to enter and was just starting to accelerate and take off when they got hit

seems like the holes in the swiss cheese start to lineup....

@user-ts9xe2xd3p

16w↑3

Lastly, why a350 couldn't see and avoid the traffic on the rwy..😢

@LastMS

16w↑19

@@user-ts9xe2xd3p many experts and pilots seem to be agreeing that a small plane lined up on the centerline of the runway is very hard or impossible to see at night because of the surrounding lights of the runway. Nothing much the a350 could have done

@Chris-iu7in

16w↑13

@@user-ts9xe2xd3p Landing in the dark and large airplanes do not have windows below the cockpit, so probably didn't see anything until it was too late.

@user-ts9xe2xd3p

16w↑2

@Chris-iu7in yeah, I see. I'm sorry about that

@Madcapolo

16w↑4

@@LastMSThis was exactly the case with a runway collision in Los Angeles back in the 90s. A USAir 737 was cleared to land with a Metroliner holding on the runway at night. Investigators cleared the 737 pilots of any wrongdoing because the Metroliner’s lighting would have been near impossible to see among the runway lighting

11 More Replies...

@HughShower

16w↑41

Before anyone comments, it’s now standard practice that once a seriously burning aircraft has been evacuated to just let it burn, as it’s futile to try to extinguish the flames and is very dangerous for the firefighters. This is especially true on landing aircraft with low fuel. They might approach an accident aircraft on takeoff roll differently, but only to stop aviation fuel from spreading too far.

@cjmillsnun

16w↑6

Indeed. The aircraft is likely a total loss if it's seriously alight. If everyone is accounted for, then firefighter safety then becomes paramount.

@yooein

16w↑7

And from the passengers of this flight we heard that crew members put them in easily countable groups close to the airplane, so they did a headcount very fast.

@paddyohenry6428

16w

Yeah but we are in a "climate emergency" which threatens the planet, so they should put the fire out!

@priyanshuhazra8644

16w↑62

My guess is the pilot in the coast guard plane was experiencing "Expectation Bias" which is very common amongst us pilots during very stressful days of work...He might have just heard "line up and wait" and thought well, "I'm the first guy in here so he's probably talking about me" I just wished he'd have had someone beside him who was paying attention. very preventable but not uncommon

@weekenderfam7965

16w↑13

They even read the instructions back correctly to taxi to holding point C5, as number 1. That’s pretty clear they acknowledged to hold short of the runway. Somehow something went wrong at this point and they didn’t stop short. Did they misinterpreted the turn and somehow they thought they are at C5 but actual they are on the runway? Cuz people have been saying the Dash 8 didn’t seem to have landing and strobe lights on, which are a must when entering an active runway.

@jimw1615

16w↑7

Expectation Bias coupled with "get-there-itis" had to be prevalent for the Dash 8 cockpit crew.

@ellisromero

16w

The hold short lights were out of service as well via a NOTAM. Very unfortunate...

@DarkPenguin24

16w↑8

@@ellisromero doesn't matter:
Stop Bar lights are generally only used if visibility is bad.
2) Stop Bar Lights will be operated when the visibility or the lowest RVR of the RWY16L/34R is at or less than 600m.
5) During the period Stop Bar Lights operated, TWY C3 THRU C12 are not available for departure aircraft.
which would mean no matter what, they cannot expect the Stop Bar Lights at all when departing from C5.

@ljthirtyfiver

16w↑1

What do you mean someone beside him ? Isn’t that dash 8 certified for 2 pilots ?

14 More Replies...

@realvanman1

16w↑5

How on earth did everyone evacuate and survive after a fireball like that. Wow.

@WANDERER0070

16w

The airplane fuselage is made of carbon fiber plastic,light yet very strong 😊

@tabaks

16w↑1

there are procedures for that. That's how.

@trr4488

16w

Offical report is it took 18 minutes. Yes, how did they survive.

@panda4247

16w↑1

well, the fireball was probably from the smaller aircraft that was just being destroyed, while full of fuel.
Only one of the people in that aircraft survived.
The people in the A350 were shielded from the fireball by the A350 fuselage... Yes, that started burning as well later, but my point is that the fireball did not affect the people in the A350, because their fuselage held on and they were safely inside at that point

@AnotherDoug

16w↑2

@@trr4488 18 minutes before the last person (the captain) evacuated. I'd be interested to find out how long it took the passengers to evacuate.

2 More Replies...

@JL-db2yc

16w

DAL276 mentioned in the ATC transcript releaeed two days ago (which is missing from this reconstruction) were approaching or already holding at C1 when the collision occurred. They likely had a very good view point on how this unfolded and the crew's testimony could be valuable.

@miotsukushi5695

16w

Five Specialist and the pilot was severely injured we’re all very skilled and very permanent Who is highest integrity I hear. Rest in peace and may the left families and loved ones Take it well, and receive enough Honor and condolences money.

@grahamstubbs4962

16w↑10

Until we get the cockpit voice recording from the coastguard plane, it's difficult to make any guesses.
In a scenario such as this, there's not generally a single failure, there are several.

@_e5598

16w↑1

And with accidents in asia, power distance often plays a role. I wonder if any of the crew on the dash 8 knew the pilot had disobeyed the tower.

@galatea5455

16w↑1

I completely understand that something as shocking and terrible as this is going to be extensively covered for several days, but I can't help but feel bad for the families of the 5 killed, who probably can't turn the TV on without seeing the moment their loved ones died replayed over and over again. I'm sure the footage is still being shown a lot on the Japanese News.

@miotsukushi5695

16w↑1

I really wonder about this, but no. There are almost no information on the TV and we don’t play that shocking scenes again. In the previous notes earthquakes from 3/11 too, Not even one body was shown on TV.

@galatea5455

16w

@@miotsukushi5695 That's good! Here in the U.S. we tend to replay disasters a lot. When the Twin Towers were hit and collapsed, it was caught live on the news, and then they kept replaying the planes crashing into the towers and the towers collapsing over and over for days.

@ryanmudd839

16w↑1

Reminds me of the accident years ago at LAX between a USAir 737 and a metro liner. Nearly identical

@MCentral8086

16w↑9

It will be good to see if any new regulations come out of this unfortunate accident. In airports that have no radar to for ATC to see the planes on the ground, would it be extreme to both require stop bars, and that they be functional? (You can mitigate downtime with redundancy -- perhaps keeping a backup stop bar available should one go offline)

@Hans-gb4mv

16w↑2

Stop bars in Haneda are only used in poor visibility conditions

@user-do8ul2zi4v

16w

If the airport was equipped with stop bar, new regulations may be put in place that they will be used or the runway is shut down. Especially at a busy airport there shouldn't be an excuse to be operating with semi-functional equipment.

@sadfatdragon9529

16w

I'm looking forward to what the final report says when it comes be interesting to know why this happened.

@rickrickard2788

16w

@LeTangKichiro

16w↑1

I understand your sentiment and where you are coming from. The amount of toxicity in the comments is sometimes indeed just astounding. But to be honest with you, it won't have a lot of effect if you want to fight toxic people who are all anonymous anyway. But those toxic people will know that there is a person willing to give them "narcissistic supply" which is exactly what they are looking for. In a sense, by fighting them, you will do exactly what they want. If you really want to hurt them, then tream them for what they are. Less important than a cockroach crawling out of cow dung. Don't give them what they want: attention. Realise that their words should have the same effects as a glass full of air. Nothing. If we realise that their toxic sentences are just empty and hollow, then we can be free. We feed the toxicity by reacting. In psychology, there is pop-psychology expression called "grey-rock" technique. It's actually explains quite well what our job is. Be as reactive as a grey rock. If we stop feeding sociopaths, psychopaths and narcissists, then we can succeed. But if we react to them and treat them as if they matter, it keeps them alive. And if all people would do the right thing, all toxic people would suffer from what is called "narcissistic collapse". They wouldn't receive any attention anymore and simply fall apart. We need to do this worldwide to every single toxic person. They need us to survive. This is what happens when toxic people get old and enter old-people homes and when their family cuts them off. They collapse, become psychotic (otherwise, they would just die) and their ego crumbles into nothing because they have nothing at the core. Well, they actually have something but it was locked away in a safe place due to childhood trauma in order to protect that but by becoming narcissistic, they also threw away any chance for healing. I could explain it even further but my comment would become far too long. I wish you all the best and keep that good heart of yours. We need people like you in this world!

@rickrickard2788

16w

@-DM

16w↑38

It'll be interesting to see what changes are made to the airport and beyond due to this accident. It seems so avoidable if anyone or system would have noticed the potential collision.

@bosshog8844

16w↑9

The industry needs to ditch radio voice comms in favor of a system more reliable, accurate and safe. In before boomers screeching in the replies THIS IS HOW WE ALWAYS DID IT YOU CAN'T TAKE OUR RADIOS AWAY FROM US REEEE

@h.a.9880

16w↑14

This makes little sense to me. The systems in place can always be overhauled, streamlined and improved, but by the end of the day, this wasn't a system that failed to do its job, it was a pilot moving to a place where he should not have been.

@ansi23bvb

16w↑8

It wouldn’t be that hard from a technological standpoint (I would imagine) to install some sort of sensor to dectect an aircraft passing beyond the runway holding point. And that sensor could be directly connected to the tower and probably also for example to the PAPIs (maybe have the PAPIs flashing) to indicate that the runway is occupied by an aircraft.

@h.a.9880

16w↑11

@@bosshog8844 Radio wasn't the issue. The pilot received clear instructions, repeated them loud and clear... and then didn't follow these instructions and ended up on a runway, that he was not supposed to drive on.

It's like making rules for new bumper designs in response to someone having a drunk driving accident. You want to work on something that had no influence on what was going on.

And just for the recod: Radio has been in worldwide use on every airport thousands of times every day for decades. That is a tremendeous safety recrod on display.

@ssj3gohan456

16w↑1

I suspect they're going to suggest no intersection departures on a mixed use runway. At least when entering at the end/start you don't risk a crash on accidental incursion (except if the landing airplane tries to land on the numbers)

23 More Replies...

@fernandofrancesconi6158

16w↑22

This video gave more context to what happened. As JAL166 was on app behind JAL516, and the TWR said “continue the app, we have a DEP” and also gave JAA722A the information that he was “number 1” could have the subliminar idea that he was cleared…. As every accident is a sum of factors, there are allways lessons

@jaysmith1408

16w↑2

Right, 516 lands, the dash departs, and 166 lands behind him

@PRH123

16w↑9

Not clear why the dash pilots got confused…. that will be the focus of the investigation…

but professional pilots don’t operate on assumptions, they strictly follow the controllers instructions…. You’re not cleared unless the controller says you’re cleared…

@thud9797

16w↑3

@@jaysmith1408
But in his mind the JCG captain knowing he is #1 meant to him I'm #1 for takeoff so I am pulling onto the runway in preparation for takeoff oblivious to any other aircraft. It sounds unbelievable but lines up with what he believed. That's why I can't wait to see the CVR transcript to know if they were on the frequency when the tower cleared and JAL516 acknowledged their clearance to land about a minute and a half after the JCG pulled onto the runway.

@weldonyoung1013

16w

Yes, it does sound like language confusion. Possibly something with Japanese not being an 'international' language for aviation.

@jaysmith1408

16w↑1

@@weldonyoung1013 I’m fond of the Canadian system, English is almost always spoken, if both controller and crew speak French, they use French. Some say it can lead to lower situational awareness amongst other English crews, but like in this case, where both controllers and crews are speaking English (fairly broken and heavily accented) I think it would have been advantageous to use Japanese. The only English crew on the air was Delta, and his operations were fairly irrelevant to the matter at hand.

I was working a security detail, and the supervisor was Haitian. After multiple attempts to relay a message in English, I switched to French, and he picked up on the first try.

3 More Replies...

@Seventh7Art

16w↑16

Τhe most likely scenario is that the sole survivor of the Dash 8, its Captain, made the fatar mistake to enter the runway, based on his expectation bias....

@-DM

16w↑8

That's sad to hear, he's going to have a lot of guilt riding on him from now on.

@didyuknow

16w

worse yet just sat there for 40 sec waiting tghe go ahead. may be he thought he was number 1 for takeoff so minus well be in the runway ready to go? very amateurist. besides workload concerns many are raising I would actually be coincerned with lack of active training and monitoring on the Dash cockpit crew,

@BuffaloWarrior7

16w

@@didyuknowI believe someone quoted him as saying he thought he had been cleared onto the runway. Even though the read back (from the co-pilot) says hold short.

@j134679

16w↑2

@@didyuknow Well, fatigue is again a factor. There are comments claiming their whole team wasn't supposed to be working that day but had to be called up due to the earthquake. No amount of training is going to help when the brain is tired.

@tracksuitJohn

16w↑47

Thank you for uploading fair and reasonable reports of this incident, unlike certain viral Youtubers like Pilot Debrief who upload videos like "the SCARY truth about x tragedy" for clicks

@nzkshatriya6298

16w↑5

I just fail to see how you can read back clear instructions, and then smoothbrain not do them

@AlohaChips

16w↑1

@@nzkshatriya6298 From what I understand the copilot was probably doing the read back, while the pilot was concentrating on steering during taxi ... it's a typical division of labor during taxi. So it's possible the pilot was distracted from fully understanding the ATC communications. The question then becomes, did the copilot not question what the pilot was doing? Even getting partially out of the runway again in the 30 or so seconds they had to maneuver back off the runway (had the copilot managed to go "yo ATC did not clear us we should not be on the runway, get off ASAP") might have meant more Dash 8 crew surviving. Though what a more asymmetrical impact would have meant for the A350 is another question. We'll never know.

@dragus359

16w↑1

@@nzkshatriya6298fatigue, distraction, confusion, just to name a few possibilities.

@TheWalar

16w↑4

Just imagine what would have happened if the coast guard plane was 100m further on the runway.

@michmart9261

16w↑1

Same thing i guess, just from the front

@haiqalzaki5113

16w

Probably much worse outcome, considering the A350 would've struck the Dash 8 on full TOGA (I reckon the JAL pilots would've tried to go-around once they saw the Dash, but I guess at the point anything is too late), and end up similar to the KLM flight on Tenerife.

@squadwiper79

16w

@@haiqalzaki5113it would take multiple seconds to go full toga

@alkssalazar1

16w↑1

Yo creo que los de la torre de control no hicieron bien su trabajo

@gabrielstraus4116

16w↑8

Maybe this is a dumb question, but does Haneda not have a Ground Radar? How could the tower not notice that JA722A was on the runway for 43 seconds?

@kagenkei8888

16w↑7

FIrst the stop bar light is broken... senond no ADSB onboard .... ATC says that they do not watch the rader all the time because it is so busy...

@honolulu.spotter

16w↑3

JA772A Didn't have an Active ADSB Transponder.

@Quotenwagnerianer

16w↑1

I think what you mean is a runway incursion avoidance system. Which automatically goes off as soon as anything larger than a small animal enters the runway.

@PRH123

16w

@@kagenkei8888 ADS-B data is not used for ground control SMR radar. It’s latency is too large, can be over a minute. So not a factor.

@PRH123

16w↑1

Yes HND do have an SMR. A commenter above quoted that the radar was working, and indicating the possible conflict (color change on screen), but the controller said he/she was busy with something else and not monitoring it.

6 More Replies...

@Jokalido

16w↑6

43 seconds!? how did they missed the plane just standing there in the runway

@belmarmom

16w↑1

I heard the CG plane's transponder wasn't working so he wasn't visible to other planes or ATC.

@osmanapaydin7212

16w↑1

It’s extremely hard for ATC, and nearly impossible for the pilots of approaching aircraft to visually see a small aircraft lined up on a runway at night. The ATC also either missed the warning from their runway incursion system, or didn’t receive one to begin with. Remember that ASDE-X, which automatically detects runway incursions, is still in the early stages of being implemented in airports, and is not implemented at Tokyo Haneda to begin with.

@joshh2705

16w↑2

@@osmanapaydin7212 agree with all, but ASDE-X has been around for a hot minute now at 35 airports in the US. Program was "completed" in 2011, and has been in operation even at some smaller than core 30 airports for at least 5 years. It is a specific system and perhaps Haneda had some other kind of system that was intended to provide more runway awareness. If Haneda did have a working system like ASDE-X though, we wouldn't be writing these comments.

@andyparisiseftaxias3224

16w↑10

0:59 Clear order to LA722A "taxi to holding C5", meaning to STOP at C5. The JA722A repeated the order correctly. Waiting for an answer to the question: 43 sec and no one saw the plane waiting on 34R.

@suzieb8366

16w↑7

34R not 43R .. see how easy mistakes happen:o)

@andyparisiseftaxias3224

16w↑1

@@suzieb8366 Copy!!! Thank you.

@gusmc01

16w

In the dark it would have been very hard to tell if the Dash 8 was on the runway or holding next to it. Plus, ATC is so busy monitoring other traffic, they have to trust the aircraft was where it was instructed to be. I'd like to think that in the daylight an accident like this wouldn't happen because someone in the tower would have been able to clearly see the Dash 8 on the runway and called for the A350 to go around.

@ljthirtyfiver

16w↑1

I’m asking the same question too. I’m getting answers from people who think it’s ok for pilots to make seemingly egregious mistakes on both ends. Yes mistakes happens ….but 43 seconds and the approaching aircraft saw nothing ? Tower saw nothing? Let’s all cease all night time operations then since night time is an ok excuse for shit to happen.

@andyparisiseftaxias3224

16w

@@gusmc01 I agree. The tower is the "General" and ALL the pilots are the "Soldiers" to obey.

@Slaughter619

16w

That tower remained cool as cucumbers man.

The smallest misunderstandings can lead to the biggest mistakes, and that coast guard pilot missed his taxi and wait by one early turn. Even if he had followed the loop properly and held in C6, 5 people would still be going home to their families.

@Chavez787

16w

R.I.P. to the victims 🙏🏼

@kingmak2233

16w

@robertgreenlee4542

16w

Obviously, a fantastic job by the flight crew to land and safely evacuate everybody but I was surprised that the fire department was not able to knock that fire down. Seemed like they just decided to let it burn out.

@stephensoltero3171

16w↑1

I have no earthly idea how anyone survived in the Dash 8. It defies logic. 😮😮

@hvcomputech

16w↑14

And I thought American ATC spoke fast.

@DeereX748

16w

I had thought the Dash-8 had taxied to the hold line at C5 first, and then for some unknown reason rolled into position on the runway for takeoff. Good clarification, wonder what part of "taxi to the holding point " he didn't understand, or maybe the CRM wasn't working too well on their flight deck and the AC didn't get more than "taxi and hold" from the 1st Officer. Has the Captain made an official statement yet?

@rodneywallace2984

16w↑1

Can't imagine what it looked like for JAL166 before and during the go around....

@alkssalazar1

16w↑1

Es evidente la falta de coordinación, trabajo que le corresponde a la torre de control

@77thTrombone

16w

Gratuitous comment for Victor's channel stats at VASAviation. Remarkable animation as usual.

@mhayli1

16w↑8

Lots of talk about the stop bars. As mentioned in another comment, and as per AIP Japan, stop bars at Haneda only used in certain vis/RVR conditions. Also as per AIP, when weather conditions are such that stop bars are in use, departures from C3 to C12 (these stop bars are not controlled by the tower) are not available. But let’s not forget that stop bars are not the only holding point lighting. AIP states runway holding position lights and runway guard lights. There is a comment that the guard lights turn on in the daytime regardless of weather conditions, and no mention of night time operations. So perhaps these are off for HN operations. In any case, there are at least holding position lights operative at night.

@SwapBlogRU

16w↑15

Going off of the information that has become available, it would seem as if the Dash 8 crew was to blame for the incident. I'm not sure whether the captain was lucky or unlucky to have survived the crash.

@Greippi10

16w

While probably true to a degree it's never quite that simple, this is definitely a systems failure as well, starting with the inoperative stop bar at the holding position, as well as a lack of runway incursion system. We'll have to wait and see the conclusions of the investigation to get the full picture.

@rodneywallace2984

16w↑3

@@Greippi10Yeah that stop bar was the last defence in this Swiss cheese sandwich... Seems from the NOTAM lots of other lights and systems were U/S too... Although not all related to the accident, does this show the airport is in some disarray? Like you said, it will all come out....

@Greippi10

16w

@@rodneywallace2984 We'll see, but I have this gut feeling that rather than being in disarray it's once again more about getting comfortable and complacent because nothing has happened. There's always a certain acceptable threshold of things that can be out of order, and accidents like this question it.

Like they say regulations are (often) written in blood. Runway incursion systems do exist, but still aren't that common from what I understand.

@eruffini

16w↑1

@@Greippi10 The stop bar is not usually operated unless under low visibility conditions, per the airport SOP. Pilots should have easily seen the markings on the taxiway, and other signs, that tell them to stop.

@rodneywallace2984

16w↑1

@@Greippi10 100%....hindsight is a wonderful thing although usually brought about by tragedy 👍

13 More Replies...

@Richard-od7yd

16w↑2

It seems to me that the Dash 8 pilot thought that the Tower was talking to a departing flight instead of one approaching and went out onto the runway expecting to to the next departure.
I'm an old Boatswains Mate and am familiar with Radio Chatter at Sea so I may be on to something here .
Somebody got lost in the jumble of words . And I also DIDN'T hear more instructions from Ground Control .

@liyanam7888

16w

Is hard to watch it and imagine reality.....😢😢😢😢😢😢😢❤

@agooglic

16w

Last November, I attended a reunion of Sky Creation, a Japanese-owned flight school under FAA. It was held at a restaurant in the building of RJTT T1, called Big Bird, which provides visual access to the runway 34L-16R.
I have several opinions, but this time I express just this. I do hope that NO crews on JA722A are guilty, or legally judged responsible.

@kalsterling719

16w

Exterior of plane seemed fire proof until it wasn’t, amazing engineering and advanced technology on the materials of todays planes👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

@ken8473

16w↑2

1:50 JAL166 sounds very emotional. Stark contrast with his previous comms 1:02

@agooglic

16w

Yes, the PNF had been on go-around, and he did see the flame of company craft.

@Vegan_Tree

16w↑3

I understand the stop bar lights were inoperable on these taxiways. Considering that the Dash 8 just sat on the runway for over 40 seconds, I wonder if they confused the C taxi lanes and thought they were on the C 5B which is just to the left, curves and is a bit longer. They may have thought they were holding short.

@DarkPenguin24

16w↑1

there is no taxiway C5B anymore. taxiways get build and renamed all the time, charts updated. u probably looked at an older chart. last time haneda got updated was 2022 which didn't include C5B anymore, alls the entrances to Runway 34R are C1-C14. No extra letters anymore.

@Vegan_Tree

16w

@@DarkPenguin24 You're right. It looks like the chart I was looking at was from 2019.

@MichaelOnines

16w↑1

@@Vegan_Tree Also, the lights that indicate where the stop bars are were all perfectly functional. The only lights inop were the stop bar lights that are not used at Haneda if there is better than 600m visibility. If they have to turn on the stop bar lights C3 through C12 are closed and cannot be used to enter the runway.

@Vegan_Tree

16w

@@MichaelOnines So much for my theory. Thank you for the information though. It's a sad set of events.

@johnp6987

16w

The coastguard read back to hold at C5 but still lined up on the active.Hopefully this error will be explained for this heartbreaking tragedy. It would be good to see a simulation from the JAL side to see if the Dash 8 was even visible on approach

@roku_nine

16w

Should be visible. Even the landing lights is turned on. Its bright af on the runway.

@johnp6987

16w

@@roku_nine unless the JAL crew spotted them to late to be unable to take avoiding action.

@roku_nine

16w

@@johnp6987 try to watch some night landing from cockpit video. You might miss small aircraft like the cessna but a dash 8? Should be visible.

@romk.m.1081

16w

The Japan coast guard pilot is likely suffered from fatigue that caused misjudgment of the communication with ATC. According to Reuter report, it was the third trip of disaster relief for the team within 24 hours for the 7.6 magnitude earthquake that occurred in Ishikawa prefecture in west Japan in less than 24 hours ago. It must be very stressful for the coast guard to handle the relief. When the team returned to the Haneda base, the plane may just reloaded and replenished with fuel and supplies, than take off again as they were running for time for the relief. Given Japan is infamous for the death of overwork, and the sense of urgency and mission of the crew.

@andyl5134

16w↑1

I still find it odd that several of the audio callouts are just randomly not recorded or heard here.

@n.v.1258

16w

I heard the hold short runway stop bar lights were not working as well. Could have caused confusion for the coast guard pilot. He also probably wasn't listening to the tower frequency. Usually, you only have ground frequency tuned in when taxing. I'm not sure what was going on. Pilots must have been pretty tired or not used to that airport. 😢

@MichaelOnines

16w

hold short runway lights are only used at that airport when visibility is less than 600m. The lights inop was not a factor.

@christoffermonikander2200

16w↑2

Will be interesting to see how well the taxi way was marked and if the signage was well lit an operational. Because the question is if the DASH 8 lined up on the runway because the pilots thought they had clearance or because they missed the signage telling them to stop and they thought they were waiting at C5 instead of on the runway. Won't be the first runway incursion accident that have happened due to bad signage on taxi ways. Can think of at least two previous ones.

@MotuSid

16w↑3

Since the captain of the Coast Guard plane has said he heard they were cleared for takeoff (how I don't understand), this is definitely not a case of bad signage

@stuartf2946

16w

For reasons that are in these comments, the Captain just went right ahead and parked on a live runway, even though he had been told to hold short.

@gusmc01

16w

Not sure how he could have thought he was holding at C5 when he had made a left turn to get to C5 and then made another left to line up on the runway. If it was the airport where his aircraft was based, he most certainly knew he was on the runway.

@skayt35

16w

Missing the markings and signs can happen, yet if this was the case in this specific incident they still would've had 43 seconds to recognize their error as sitting lined up on a runway looks very different from sitting on a taxiway.

@freemanol

16w↑7

isnt there supposed to be some sort of system to detect runway incursion and potential conflicts?

@trilight3597

16w

@PRH123

16w↑2

Simplest system which is around for decades is SMR Surface Management Radar. Displays aircraft locations on a map of the airport.

Enhanced versions add the aircraft ID from transponder data, and more enhanced versions give alerts on possible conflicts.

Going into implementation now is ASDE-X, which adds to SMR other data like ADS-B, GPS, etc which also should track vehicles and other stuff on the airport.

@american3502

16w

@@trilight3597tcas wouldn't have given a warning below 1000, but there should've been a dot indicating DHC's position right before both pilots' eyes. Maybe they didn't pay much attention to the instruments, or maybe for a busy airport like Haneda it was normal to see lots of dots near the runway, so they didn't really notice that one of them was right on it

@trilight3597

16w↑1

I just heard that the Dash8 on the runaway didn't have a working transponder for ground radar; so that aircraft would've been invisible on ground radar too.

@lizhongshen

16w↑1

yes, all commercial airlines have ADSB to report plane location and automatic collision avoidance system to trigger alarm. But the coast guard plane either not has ADSB or don't follow civil aviation rules. On Sunday, June 6, 1971, Hughes Airwest Flight 706 had mid-air collision with aU.S. Marine Corps F-4B fighter jet. Back to the day, military jets are not required to report its location and/or follow ATC instruction. After that accident, FAA changed lots of rules.

2 More Replies...

@jugheadjones5458

16w↑2

The A350 likely was in its flare, nose up and couldn’t have seen the Dash 8. A perfect storm of events. Like Blanco said, all the holes in the Swiss cheese lined up for something bad to slip through. And, a lot of people on different channels have been predicting a ground
accident was imminent. Tragic and could’ve been worse. I wonder how many countries’ pilots have trouble understanding different countries’ accents?

@Shit_I_Missed.

16w

I don't think an aircraft flares for 40 seconds. The upper beacon light, and the anti-collision light should have been visible for at least 35-40 seconds. I'm not faulting the A350 pilots for this though, it's night time and it can be quite hard to tell what is what when all you see is white, red, green, and blue dots in front of you.

@jugheadjones5458

16w

@@Shit_I_Missed. I was speculating, but others have said the same thing. I don’t know how long the flare was but yeah, 40 seconds would be a long time. Speculating might be a bad thing; just wait until the investigation is over. Is it known how long the Dash 8 was on the runway before the collision?

@skayt35

16w

Regarding accents, I doubt that it played a role here. The main actors in this accident are Japan Airlines, Japan Coast Guard, Japan ATC. Any Japanese accent would be well understood by all involved. All readbacks were immediate and correct.

@weekenderfam7965

16w↑1

The only thing to find out what really happened is the CVR in the Dash-8. What the pilots were doing or any conversation after they read back the instruction to taxi to holding point C-5.

@rickrickard2788

16w

Hey Victor- I just found & watched an excellent video from Aussie-land, of this entire incident, from INSIDE the plane! Thought your viewers might enjoy it. Juan Browne over at Blancoliro's been fully covering this as well, maybe I'll post this on his last video, too.

ohttps://youtu.be/S2ChOxL3atc?si=jOkgJ9WAPH1U4eEn

@MDC_1985

16w↑2

Am I the only one who wants to hear the actual tower recording and the only one that finds it atleast some what suspect that we don’t get to hear with our own ears the critical communication between the tower and the coast guard pilot? Seriously? I mean, it’s great that the officials released a transcript but why not release the actual clear tower recording to go with it…. It’s not top secret….? Seriously, wtf. Why does no one else question this when it’s the most critical part…. “Yes we have audio for everything else, but not the important part. But don’t worry, we’ll just tell you what was said” ??????!!!!! Yes I know there’s a third party recording but it’s garbage, you could almost be convinced they were speaking German it’s so bad. Where is the damn tower audio. Wait any longer to produce it and it won’t be implausible that it has been faked with AI.

@Discipal4goodmusic

16w

So sad :(
There are so many more unanswered questions like why did they remain on the live runway for 43 seconds without taking off? Why did JAL516 not go round - they should have been able to see the other plane as it had been sitting on the runway for some time. Perhaps the runway lights obscured it somewhat…?
They were using both runways at the time of the accident…?

@lee4171

16w↑37

The Dash 8 is a pretty large aircraft. Amazing that the A350 didn't sustain more damage or go in to some sort of roll. Miracle. RIP to the 5 who died.

@THYB737

16w↑6

The dash 8 is everything but pretty large.

@wisanu99

16w↑4

I think 350 nose wheel was not down yet. The nose cone has a cut from the T tail. 350 kind of belly flopped onto dash 8 at an angle.

@nzkshatriya6298

16w

except the piot

@lee4171

16w↑7

@@THYB737 I said pretty large not huge. (I see you've changed your comment). And if you think an aircraft that can hold up to 80 people including pilots, with a wingspan up to 93' and up to 100' long, is small, then you live in a dream world.

@lee4171

16w↑2

@@wisanu99 Interesting if that is the case. The video does look like it's fully landed, but who knows.

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@x6ftundx

16w↑37

1:00 into it they actually read back to taxi to hold point C5. damn, that was 100% the pilots fault. they were told to taxi to holding point C5, they read it back and then go onto the active runway just because. sad sad sad

@dhahm6884

16w↑3

I wonder why the controller did not add "hold short runway 34R".

@fascinatingtome

16w↑13

@@dhahm6884 Many airports give clearances like this - it's a HOLDING point after all.

@thud9797

16w↑4

@@dhahm6884
They do not do this in Japan and other places but I suspect after this accident they will revisit that policy.

@gordon1545

16w↑6

Read the pinned comment at the top - the C5 hold line lights may have been out of service. They could have taxied past it, but what's unfathomable is how they could have sat on the runway for 43 seconds - they must have known they were on the runway.

It'll be interesting to find out what their workload had been in the hours and days before the crash.

@apple-on5pq

16w↑2

@@gordon1545they knew that they were on the runway, the captain from the coast guard plane said that he got the permission to takeoff

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@Sam_Saraguy

16w↑1

That ATC comment "we have a departure" may have confused the coast guard pilot (thinking he was the departure)

@drosenberg80

16w

That’s just crazy. When i first heard about the accident and saw the dark video, i thought a portion of the Dash 8 was protruding on the runway. Now we know it was just sitting there, lined up, and took a direct hit. Could not have been worse. Horrible.

@David-pn3yp

16w

The passengers are beyond lucky

@trr4488

16w↑1

l would agree with that. Footage shows a smoke-filled cabin and screaming flight attendants that no one could understand.

@ifly2love

16w↑10

Even though the readback from JA722A is correct (taxi to holding point C5), if they overheard the tower saying "we have departure" to landing traffic, I believe it could possibly misled them, as the number 1 departing aircraft, to have priority before anyone else...

What really baffled me is how they lineup and waited for 40 seconds and not caught by the tower controller?

@jaysmith1408

16w↑3

Well that is correct, 516 lands, the dash departs, and 166 lands behind him.

Now if the captain believed he was cleared for takeoff, I couldn’t imagine setting up shop on the active, I’d have lined up, and departed. Only thing I could think was if he imagined he had clearance to line up and wait AT C5, but if he was aware of landing traffic behind him, I’d have piped up pronto and asked about the hold (since there wasn’t anyone for which to hold in position)

@kirkhamandy

16w↑3

There was another plane going to another runway that was given the instruction "line up and wait". Perhaps the CG plane mistook this along with the "we have departure" and "number 1" and confused it. But then, wouldn't the CG pilot have read back the instructions to the tower?

@tmb1065

16w↑2

@@jaysmith1408 Someone said that the departure and landing is on sep frequencies, so pilot may not have heard. I agree that only thing that makes sense is that pilot thought he was instructed to "taxi onto runway and hold AT C5."

@MotuSid

16w

@@kirkhamandyThe line up and wait instruction was for a plane on a completely different runway

@RJiiFin

16w↑2

@@tmb1065"pilot thought he was instructed to "taxi onto runway and hold AT C5." That's literally not a thing, so no, the pilot did not think that

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@missyroades4533

16w

Is the CG pilot still with us? The animation lines up perfectly with Juan Browne's comments on the damage on the A-350.

@rdelaneza

16w

"The pilot of the Japan Coast Guard plane involved in a collision at Tokyo's Haneda Airport says his plane was hit from behind after he increased engine power of his aircraft.
The sources add the pilot also asserted that he had entered the runway after receiving permission to do so from air traffic controllers. The sources quoted him as saying that he had received permission for a take-off."

But no one seems to have told him to line up and wait for take-off.

@philiptrump9590

16w↑6

i believe only Japanese pilots would be understanding what’s the ATC saying , incredible communication skill😱

@marcofeature

16w↑3

The audio recording you're hearing is recorded by aviation enthusiasm using their own radio device on the ground to monitor the channel. The real radio communication that the pilots and ATC heard will have much better audio quality, more like what in a phone call. Also they do speaks pretty quick but all in aviation jargons which they use everyday so they understand it without issue.

@heidikohne2986

16w↑1

@@marcofeatureIt was still really fast, though.

@j134679

16w

@@heidikohne2986 ATC & pilots use standard phraseology, so even if they speak faster than this, most would know or understand. The phrases are expected, you just wait to hear them.

@whatilearnttoday5295

16w

@@marcofeatureObviously this is not the case and the comms were not readily understood. We have physical evidence strewn down a runway indicating such.

@sly5789

16w

I guess it might be hard for any air controller to see the run way that far to know there was a plane in the runway prior to JAL landing. They really need a spotter but clearly pilot error.

@user-dv9tk8sd9l

16w

I am quiet surprise that the pilot of JAL didn't see the small plane on the runway.

@alexwyler4570

16w

So the CoastGuard plane crew was so tired, exhausted and overwhelmed from helping hurricane victims for 24 hours straight without sleep, and they might not be familiar with the airport layout, they missed the C5 entirely and went through C6, hence maybe no stop lights? Missing the C5 entirely? What a great brilliant rendition video. i am so sorry and sad that a courageous hard-working crew had to perish.

@emely012

16w

I wonder at what height JAL 166 got the order to turn around. If they were already low, the cockpit crew probably saw the fireball on the runway, which must have been horrifying for them…

@DarkPenguin24

16w

they were around 2000 feet high and around 6.5 nm from the airport. the should have seen the fireball definetly.

@testpirate2570

16w

How the heck the infrared sensors didn’t notify the tower of the dash 8 breach is beyond me , the amount of time that plane was sitting on the runway , the a350 should have been notified of the breach and go around called. Pilot error is apart of the game, it’s why those sensors exist, don’t get it

@j700jam4

16w

I would feel edgy waiting on an active runway for 43 seconds at an intersection.

@zakka0007

16w

Sera q o piloto da aeronave Menor, antes de entrar na pista nao deu aquela conferida p cabeceira da pista , ou a aproximacao das luzes ? Meu Deus!
Solidario às familias das vitimas !

@amorporchile2958

16w↑2

The coast Guard repeated in a good way the readback...so.. Situational Awarness was lost from the coast guard crew ? Was there any distraction ?

@ws6619

16w↑1

information you provide is so vital. thank you

@Sammie551

16w

Can't be in holding position for 43 seconds
Time is precious

@oliviaanders1454

16w↑4

Silly question but if there's no recording, how do they know what was said? (I know the transcript was released by the authorities, but where do they get it from?)

@robwkarren

16w↑13

The recordings available for government regulators come from the ATC towers, but the recordings available for people like Victor to make YouTube videos come from LiveATC which is made up of volunteers running recorders that may not have antennas as good as the ATC tower or located at the airport.

@oliviaanders1454

16w

@@robwkarren Thanks! That makes way more sense now.

@naoyukisasanami

16w

A delta and others were in the proper cue at C1, so it was an intersection departure from C5 prolly aid for earthquake

@MrSketchyCharacter

16w↑2

My sincere condolences to those people who perished, but that could have been so much worse. 😔

@mcdonalds5972

16w↑1

This one is definitely pilot error. Coast guard was instructed to hold at C5, not enter the runway. Fatigue is likely a contributing factor given the recent earthquake.

@Peacewind152

16w

Wow... that's the first time after looking at the footage several times... that I can actually see the Dash 8. It really was invisible.

@trr4488

16w

Visible to who? Someone sitting in a nice chair watching re-runs, lol

@angelkilier

16w

@@trr4488 He said "IN-visible".

@zhaoluyue1995

16w

"Number 1, taxi to holding point Charlie 5"

This one is actually recorded (15:13 in RJTT Twr/TCA 0830-0900 files). At first I couldn't get whether it is "taxi and hold" or "taxi and cross"...

@tarik5277

16w↑15

so you telling me they basically landed on the aircraft

@sirmonkey1985

16w↑10

pretty much. they touched down 150-200ft behind them, nose gear touched the ground and slammed into the other plane less than 2 seconds later.

@canadave

16w↑6

@@sirmonkey1985 Pretty sure that is not correct. You're describing a direct on-ground collision if the nose gear was on the ground and the A350 had already fully landed 150-200 feet prior. That would have resulted in many deaths aboard the A350 if that was the scenario. It seems to me that the A350 clipped some part of the Dash 8 as it was landing--i.e. came down from above, not head on--and the fact it was able to continue down the runway and the pilots didn't even realize what had happened at first makes me think it was maybe the rear of the A350, or part of the wing, that just happened to clip the Dash 8--maybe even not by a lot, but just enough to cause the destruction it did.

@assreductionist8575

16w

@@canadaveThe nose cone of the 350 was f-ed up

@tarik5277

16w

@@sirmonkey1985 how they didnt see the other aircraft with all he lights

@DiRECs

16w↑1

I thought the A350 pilots said they didn't even realize there was a fire until the cabin crew told them.
Wouldn't they have heard a huge bang if they had landed on top of the Dash 8? If this is actually what happened, it's a miracle that the A350 was mostly intact, landing gear and everything.

*edit: apparently they did feel "a sudden shock" at the moment of impact

@-slasht

16w

If they heard a huge bang, all they know would be "something made a huge bang"

@american3502

16w

they probably had a lot of indications in the cockpit right after the impact, as the engine was hit pretty hard
And they definitely noticed the lack of the nose gear as they were trundling down the runway

@ellisromero

16w

I mean, they knew they hit something given the bang and collapsed nose. It's logical to assume there could very well be a fire...

@MotuSid

16w↑1

Theory:

There was enough damage to the systems that there was no fire warning (no visibility from the cockpit of the engines or the wings)
OR
Everyone was so shook that they missed the fire warning amongst all the warnings flaring up in the cabin

@ljthirtyfiver

16w

But at night I’m sure you can see the glow from the flames right below and the nose collapses so im sure they could see that their pitched down . I know the 350 is huge ..but that fire was sizeable . These pilots are dang near saying they saw nothin …nothing whatever …just realized a thud .

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