There are at least seven bands/projects with the name Angmar.
Angmar is … Read Full Bio ↴There are at least seven bands/projects with the name Angmar.
Angmar is a realm in the northern part of the Misty Mountains in the north of Middle-Earth, which is being ruled by the king of the Nazgûl in J.R.R. Tolkien's works.
Also Angmar means "house of iron" in Sindarin, an Elvish language created by Tolkien.

1) The first are Finns, who started the project from 1994/1995 and changed band's name to Angmar in 1997. They released two demos - Valonsurma and Planet Satan, splits with Tenebrosus and The True Endless, and the album Razorblade Redemption (2003). The band members took part in another project Enchanted by Dawn and now play also for the death/trash band Enormity.

2) The second is a French act from 2002. They released in 2003 the demo Aux Funérailles du Monde... that will be re-released as a split with Alcest in the beginning of 2007. The last days of 2005 they released also the album Metamorphosis under the label Northern Silence Productions.

3) Black metal band from Czech Republic formed in 2007. The band changed the name to Crown of Angmar. Last known line-up - Lord Enthermontth - Vocals, guitar, bass, programming (Dark Methodism). They recorded 2 demos - Uruk Aklash Raz Burzumi (2007) and Dark Gods Worshipping (2008).

4) Black metal/Ambient band from Slovakia formed also in 2007. The current line-up is formed by Slavirod- Guitars, vocals and Hrnko- Guitars. They recorded 1 demo - Lesná mohyla (2008) and 1 split with Mahtar called Úder Slovanskej Päste (2009).

5) Mexican Pagan Black Metal band. Here some info in Spanish (sorry can't find English text and I don't know Spanish).

Angmar banda de pagan true black metal que prefiere ser conocida como una banda de cursed black metal y nacida en cd obregon son.en el año 2007 y hoy en dia radica en hermosillo sonora. con barahir en todos los instrumentos programacion de bateria y voz black,Nazgul en los lamentos,Aeter en las voces femeninas.
la banda pasa a ser de dos miembros saliendo aeter de la banda por motivos personales.
la banda usando el ciento porciento letras tolkianas citando a libros como el silamrillion y el señor de los anillos. a principios del 2009 la banda termina su primer demo llamado¨ Tales of arda¨ que cuenta con 6 canciones con una duracion de menos de 30 minutos.
Angmar ahora esta trabajando en su segundo demo con la misma lirica y la misma intencion musical.
ANGMAR significa casa de hierro en el idioma elfico.
Tales of arda.
1.the beast of angmar
2.luthien
3.saruman
4.i am melkor
5.walk in the shade
6.into the mandos halls
grabado en menegroth records
grabado editado y producido por barahir y nazgul
contactos angmar.barahir@hotmail.com,nazgul_tanarukk@hotmail.com

The few things that I understand is that Angmar is now 2 member project - Barahir - All instruments, Vocals and Nazgul - Vocals, Laments. The band is formed in 2007 and their first demo is recorded in 2009 called "Tales of Arda" - 6 songs with a duration of less than 30 minutes. Angmar is now working on their second demo with the same lyrics and the same musical intention.

6) DUNGEON SYNTH! https://flecktarnproductions.bandcamp.com/

7) Cellistic Black Metal project from the United States

Supreme Being
Angmar Lyrics

Jump to: Overall Meaning ↴ Line by Line Meaning ↴

Every time that I cry out
No one ever comes to me
Every time that I reach out
No one ever rescues me

I wish I could hide from everyone
I there somewhere else to be
Take me in

I want out
That's all i need

I wish i could run from everything
To live is to be

There is a whisper in my brain
That guide me
I close my eyes
And I listen
I listen to the voices

And I dream
I dream of a world where I'll be the king
And I scream
I scream at the edge of my mind
And I see
I see in my eyes
A world where I'll be free

The dream is my reality

Overall Meaning

In the song "Supreme Being," Angmar sings about feeling abandoned and neglected. The lyrics express the feeling of crying out for help and not being heard, reaching out and not being rescued. The singer wishes they could hide away from everyone and be somewhere else. They feel trapped and want to escape their current situation. The lyrics suggest that the singer is going through a tough time, emotionally and mentally.

Despite the pain and distress that the singer is going through, there is a glimmer of hope in the form of a whisper in their brain that guides them. The singer closes their eyes and listens to the voices that offer them solace. They dream of a world where they can be the king and are free from their troubles. The dream is the singer's reality, and it offers them an escape from the difficulties of their current situation.

Overall, the song "Supreme Being" is a hauntingly beautiful piece that captures the emotions of abandonment, loneliness, and hopelessness. The lyrics paint a picture of someone who is struggling to cope but holds onto a glimmer of hope for a better future.

Line by Line Meaning

Every time that I cry out
Whenever I express my pain

No one ever comes to me
Nobody is there to comfort me

Every time that I reach out
Whenever I seek help

No one ever rescues me
Nobody comes to save me

I wish I could hide from everyone
I want to escape from everyone's sight

I there somewhere else to be
Is there a way out of this place

Take me in
Save me from my misery

I want out
I want to be free

That's all i need
That is my only desire

I wish i could run from everything
I want to escape from my troubles

To live is to be
Existence means suffering

There is a whisper in my brain
There is a voice in my head

That guide me
That directs my actions

I close my eyes
I shut out the outside world

And I listen
And I focus on the voice

I listen to the voices
I listen to the various thoughts in my head

And I dream
And I imagine

I dream of a world where I'll be the king
I imagine a world where I have complete control

And I scream
And I cry out in frustration

I scream at the edge of my mind
I express my anguish at my thoughts

And I see
And I envision

I see in my eyes
I see within myself

A world where I'll be free
A world where I have no restraints

The dream is my reality
My imagination is my escape from reality

Contributed by Michael J. Suggest a correction in the comments below.

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04Homini Delenda Est5:20

05metamorphosis5:31

06When the World Overturns6:56

07Supreme Being4:20

PT4M20S

Angmar

08Le Paria5:32

09In Die Unterwelt5:40

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Most interesting comments from YouTube:

Rafael Gustavo

2y↑190

The Witch-king of Angmar in the hunt for Frodo was not the same in power level in the siege of Minas Tirith. His tactical defeat at Weathertop, for example, was not Aragorn's action (as shown in the film), but Frodo's sudden attack and a "prayer for Elbereth/Varda" repudiating Sauron's ghosts, and that gave strength:

"At that moment Frodo threw himself forward on the ground, and he heard himself crying aloud: O Elbereth!
Gilthoniel! At the same time he struck at the feet of his enemy. (...) More deadly to him was the name of Elbereth."

So much so that the Witch King avoided (I think) such an assertion at the Fords:

"By Elbereth and Lúthien the Fair,’ said Frodo with a lasteffort, lifting up his sword, ‘you shall have neither the Ring nor me!’ Then the leader, who was now half across the Ford, stood up menacing in his stirrups, and raised up his hand. Frodo was stricken dumb. He felt his tongue cleave to his mouth, and his heart labouring. His sword broke and fell out of his shaking hand."

Here we already have the use of a spell rarely remembered in the book: in addition to having given a "silence" lv 2, it still made Frodo lose consciousness.

For those who play D&D 5e, we can make a list of some of the Witch King's abilities:

A) Black breath:

"He seemed to be asleep. ‘‘I thought I had fallen into deep water,’’ he says to me, when I shook him. Very queer he was, and as soon as I had roused him, he got up and ran back here like a hare.’ ‘I am afraid that’s true,’ said Merry, ‘though I don’t know what I said. I had an ugly dream, which I can’t remember. I went to pieces. I don’t know what came over me.’ ‘I do,’ said Strider. ‘The Black Breath"

B) An aura of Inexplicable Terror to the point of driving the armies of Gondor and generating a fighting frenzy for the allied forces:

"Some said that it could be seen, like a great black horseman, a dark shadow under the moon. Wherever he came a madness filled our foes, but fear fell on our boldest, so that horse and man gave way and fled."

C) Control of the weather to the point of generating a windstorm and a blizzard:

"Do not mount on this sea-monster! If they have them, let the seamen bring us food and other things that we need, and you may stay here till the Witch-king goes home. For in summer his power wanes; but now his breath is deadly, and his cold arm is long."
(...)
"But Arvedui did not take his counsel. He thanked him, and at parting gave him his ring [the Ring of Barahir], saying: 'This is a ring of worth beyond your reckoning. For its ancientry alone. It has no power, save the esteem in which those hold it who love my house. It will not help you, but if ever you are in need, my kin will ransom it with great store of all that you desire."

And a lightning storm in Minas Morgul:

"And Minas Morgul answered. There was a flare of livid lightnings: forks of blue flame springing up from the tower and from the encircling hills into the sullen clouds."

D) A certain ability of necromancy to imprison evil spirits for the creation of Barrow Wight.

E) Control over fire - to trigger an explosion spell on Grond:

"Then the Black Captain rose in his stirrups and cried aloud in a dreadful voice, speaking in some forgotten tongue words of power and terror to rend both heart and stone. Thrice he cried. Thrice the great ram boomed. And suddenly upon the last stroke the Gate of Gondor broke. As if stricken by some blasting spell it burst asunder: there was a flash of searing lightning, and the doors tumbled in riven fragments to the ground. "

And create a flame-sword (Azor Ahai):

"Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade."

There is a writing by Tolkien that speaks (in letter 210) of the "Demonics force" that anabolized the witch king, to the point of making him an active weapon in addition to the innate fear he generated in opponents, so much so that he managed to approach a region "on fire" (fire being a weapon against the Nazgûl) in the siege of Minas Tirith, but continued anyway.

In my opinion, the Witch-king only had one chance against Gandalf: if the Morgoth Ingredient nullified Gandalf's powers and the Witch-king could make use of this ability.

Alejandro Alonso

2y↑5

@artur le perokè Jeez, I swear to god the people in youtube comments are so arrogant and rude that it's trully amazing. Is it so difficult to just discuss this without outright calling me a liar, accusing me of not having the reading comprehension to understand anything more complex than a one-note comic villain, on top of saying that my comment was nothing more than an embarrasment to myself. You, my friend, have great class. I bet you would not demonstrate such refined class in person, only online, but pickers can't be choosers I guess. It is kind of hilarious that you act like an elitist highbrow literature connosieur about a book that was written as an epic fantasy tale for young adults... I mean, the story in LotR is great, the setting is amazing (not to mention original, SPECIALLY at the time), characters are lovable, iconic and inspiring (sadly not really relatable most of the time). BUT, to try to imply that in LotR characters are super complex and multi-dimensional with numerous conflicting interests and they are constantly forced to take gray moral choices and even their own personality is greyish, so I may have some trouble understanding it, is hilarious. To try to imply that you might make me urinate myself laughing, I tell you. Lord of the ring is one of the most clear black and white good vs evil stories. Maybe you have not read anything more character centric and you think this is some sort of pinnacle of complex character interaction, who knows...

Now, with that out of the way, I will try to address all of you rudely presented points(paragraphs) one by one.

Firstly, it is quite funny to me that, from the same parragraph you quoted from letter 246, if we read the FIRST sentence it says: "Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him – being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the SAME ORDER, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form." So, Gandalf might be expected to win. Not draw. Not lose. Yeah, he says "might" so it is not easy/maybe could go the other way, but he is "expected" to win. Hence why I said, Gandalf would "probably win". It is clearly not a lie at all, maybe you didn't like my choice of words (I wasn't quoting Tolien word for word and I didn't act like I was). This sentence also clearly states that they (Sauron and Gandalf) are of the SAME ORDER, which you bring up in your third point. So, pretty hilarious that you forgot to include/missed a sentence from Tolkien that supports 2 of my points, that by crazy chance was also the beginning of the paragraph YOU quoted. As I said, great class...

Second point, I already addressed this, but I guess you also missed that/ didn't understand what I meant. Seems like I have to explain to you a character that is behaving deeper than on a one-dimensional level. Maybe you missed it. Ok. From the perspective of all humans, all hobbits, all dwarfs and ¿some elves? Sauron is a mythological evil god that was vanquished long ago, now he's back and there is no heroes like old days to stop him. Ok. Here is Gandalf, he is an old wise guy who does cheap magic tricks. Apart from the fellowship and some choice individuals this is what everyone thinks of him, and almost noone in middle earth knows his true identity and powers. In truth he is an angel/demigod/low rank god of the same rank as Sauron. Let's say just for the sake of argument that he is of the same power as Sauron. But he has been given two commandments/rules: 1.Not to face Sauron's might with his own might (which heavily implies that he was very capable of doing so if the rule was not in place) 2. Not to dominate or ensalve the free races of Middle Earth. So knowing this, would you say in front of everyone: "I am Gandalf, Gandalf the White, and Black is weaker than me, but lols I won't fight him because rules so I leave it to you to get slaughtered because Manwë is a funny guy". Or maybe "I am the White, and I wield a power similar to Sauron" and the people around with tears of hope in their eyes ask him "Oh, great Gandalf, would you fight against Sauron for us?" And he replies"Lols, no." It would be quite dumb for the wisest Maiar to say that he had a power rivaling to their 'dark evil god of legend'. Not only that but it would also put in peril the rule about not dominating the people of Middle Earth. People would start doing what Gandalf said not because it was sound advice or because he managed to change their mind, it would be them just doing what the powerful wizard-god said they shoud do, thus removing some degree of their free will and breaking the rule. Gasp!! Am I giving this character more thought and depth than you? Btw, I am not the biggest comic book fan myself, but maybe if you read DC's Sandman you will change your mind a little bit about other mediums. It is not all HULK SMASH. But some people prefer to be elitist I guess, instead of judging the medium for its best example we judge it for the worst. I mean, comic-book readers would say "novels are bad, look at the Twilight books lol". I swear, these people...

Thirdly, I can only say to that that Tolkien is known to have changed his mind on several things over the course of his life. What did he say first? What did he say last? What counts more? I have already quoted you a passage from Unfinished Tales that indicates that they are of the same power according to Manwë (and I think Manwë knows what he is talking about if someone does, and that's another thing, funny detail in Tolkien's stories is that some characters have knowledge that he himself doesn't, like the Tom Bombadil case, or what really happened with the blue wizards). I also quoted you your own letter, the 246, that says they are of the same order. So, two sources that say they are equal, one source that says they are not (moreover your source is a footnote on an informal letter while my sources are a response to a reader comment (which was later in life than your letter) and a passage from the book Unfinsihed Tales, which is a FAR more finished product than a footnote on a letter. Just saying. Make of it what you will. Maybe there are even more examples that contradict you or me out there.

Fourth, I am fully aware that Eonwë is less powerful than several other Maiar, but he would whoop their asses anyway. Exactly as you said with the Tulkas example, yeah. So. We agree, yeah. I never said that Eonwë was more powerful than anyone, just that sending Eonwë would be overkill for Sauron. Remember than Eonwë was sent as the leader of the host to stop Morgoth. Freaking Morgoth. Eonwe would wipe the floor with Sauron's skin. And maybe Sauron has more spiritual might than Eönwe, it has never been stated either way, but he would still easily lose, no contest. Ilmarë was stated to be the most powerful Maiar, I would bet that Eönwe would anihilate her if he wanted anyway, hell, I bet quite a good number of other Maiar would beat her 1 on 1. He (Eonwe) would not beat Arien... cause it's Arien, but Melian would easily die if she had not her Girdle cast beforehand. One the other hand beating Uinen would depend of the terrain the fought in, but he could easily beat her under the right circumstances. And I bet Sauron would do the same against them. Win 3, lose 1. All 4 of them stated to be more powerful than Sauron or Eonwe. So, yeah, I completelly understand this is more than "me more powa, me win".

And fifth point I kind of addressed in my opening. On one hand I kind Of managed to do what I wanted, to discuss something that I think that has much more merit than WK vs. Gandalf, and the primary reason why people can even entertain the notion that WK has any chance against Gandalf is because of that damned extended edition. On the other hand I managed to find the typical rude and angry youtube commenter who is more concerned about being right or wrong than to have some interesting conversation. Fine. I will read your next comment, if and when you respond. If you continue in the same rude fashion I will just ignore it and leave this comment section. Although if by any chance you manage to be more civil maybe you can even make me change my mind with good arguments. Hard, but not impossible. And again, compliments on such a great class you demonstrated in that last coment.

artur le perokè

@Alejandro Alonso Dood what the heck?... thats outright FALSE (Quote:"Also Tolkien stated that if ever Gandalf and Sauron had a battle of dominance over the one ring Gandalf would probably win because of Sauron's diminishing"). Tolkien tells that only Gandalf was imagined to have a a CHANCE in battle over the Ring and only because Sauron was weakened at that time and Gandalf was in possession of the One Ring ('It would be a *delicate balance*. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other the superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors.'
J.R.R. Tolkien, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, ”246”). So that was an outright/clumsy lie from you.

Also, AS I ALREADY SAID, Gandalf the white stated himself that he is not strong enough to challenge him with good prospects of winning ('I am Gandalf, Gandalf the White, but Black is mightier still.'
The Two Towers Book III Chapter 5: "The White Rider"). Given that he(Gandalf) is one of the wisest Maiar, Gandalf knows his limitations pretty well.

If you are STILL not convinced by my perspective, than maybe you are by the words of the author himself??
("But he(Sauron) went further than any human tyrant in pride and lust for domination, being in origin an immortal spirit, of the same kind as Gandalf and Saruman but of a far higher order."
J.R.R. Tolkien, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, ”183”)

BTW Eonwe is described as a Maiar "whose might in arms is surpassed by none in Arda" (J.R.R. Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien (ed.), The Silmarillion, "Valaquenta: Of the Maiar") but not in might/spiritual power... Same story with Tulkas being physically stronger than Melkor and yet he(Melkor) is the mighiest Valar..

Which leads to the question of might: If you think that might is equivalent to arm-wrestling, I will have to dissappoint you.
Tolkiens world is no primitive Marvel/DC - Bullishit. If you like to compare protagonists on a 1-dimensional level (" mE sTRongEr tHan hIM" ) better stick to Hulk/Superman- comic-junk and forget about grown-up-fiction such as LOTR.
And please don`t embarrass yourself with further unproductive responses.

Nerd Detective

2y↑6

Power is such a beautifuly vague concept in Middle Earth, for we see with the Nazgul that fear is power, and with Gandalf that inspiring others is power. The two are often set against one another in fan theories (and a much-maligned deleted scene).

Seeing the Witch-king as an extension of his master (powerful on his own, but waxing and waning with the Lord of the Ring) I wonder what the apex of his power was. Close to Modor, with Sauron rising, a black fume strangling the dawn, and perhaps sent out with yet more power gifted by the Dark Lord when he set out from Minas Morgul... was he Gandalf the White's match in the power to dominate and destroy others? Maybe he was, or at least close enough that with Sauron behind him he believed he could.

The Witch-king had skirmished with Gandalf the Grey before at Weathertop, and even at night with the other Nazgul was driven back (though clearly still a threat to one another). I suspect at their second meeting, BOTH were much more powerful than their first. Perhaps Gandalf the White might have easily defeated the Nazgul outright at Weathertop (instead of only driving then off), and the Witch-king at Pelennor Fields might have easily broken Gandalf the Grey's power at Weathertop.

I'd like to think that in that moment, besides Sauron himself (and perhaps Galadriel), the Witch-king and Gandalf the White were the two most indomitable beings in Middle Earth. I suspect if they had directly fought (instead of the Witch-king's fated end) it would not have been as simple as Gandalf breaking Saruman's staff (or as easy for the Nazgul captain as the deleted movie scene). It might have been a more terrible battle, as Gandalf had with Durin's Bane: long and exhausting.

But, in the end, no matter how a battle might have gone, Gandalf was more "powerful" in the way that counted. The Witch-king could not inspire others and draw out their courage, only drive them with fear. He was felled by two mere mortals with the courage to face him despite that fear. He is an enduring reminder that no matter how terrible a force, it can be overcome so long as good people have the courage to face it. It did not take a great king of Numenorian descent, or angelic Istari, or an Eagle sent by the Lord of the Valar -- just a human and a hobbit.

All comments from YouTube:

Nick Napoli

2y↑390

The Witch King, leader of the Nazgûl. I would love to see a mini-series on how the nine men became the Nazgûl.

Robin Martial Arts

This would of been a more interesting story than what we’re getting currently with the rings of power

Gaius Manus

Or the war of Angmar vs Arnor

Ecrit de la Japonographie

The problem is that Hollywood screenwriters can't write Tolkienesque dialogue, and most couldn't even devise a coherent and compelling story that was in line with what JRR Tolkien wrote.

Trevor

I like the shadow of war cutscenes for them. The imagery was awesome. Though idk if they are Tolkien accurate

Hydra

i would like to see a spinoff about Angmar

28 More Replies...

LISBOAH

2y↑335

I like the theory that Sauron was capable of infusing the Witch-King with his own power, since it makes sense lorewise. Morgoth was capable of such, as he did it with the Balrogs, the Dragons and most of his servants (and possibly even Sauron), so Sauron, as Morgoth's greatest servant and successor, probably could do the same.

Kwintus

I mean there is a prophecy rhat no man can kill him
So thus he is axtually more powerful cause gandalf cant kill him

Graham Willis

2y↑1

Thought in the books the Witch King is embued with some of Saurons spirits power so that once he faces Gandolf during battle of pelanor fields he is able to nearly kill him which is quite something as Gandalf is a Miar. Would love a story of how Witch King got to where he is in lord of the rings a film series about his conquering of Angmar and Arnor and the destruction of the Numenorian line by the Witch King.

Matthew Helland

2y↑2

@Brandon Layne Elves and men have matched Maiar before. Remember Ecthelion and Gothmog killing each other, or Elendil and Gil-Galad killing Sauron? And Gandalf couldn't hold a candle to either of them in terms of raw power.

Yajna007

@Mister Wabbit * lent *

Yajna007

2y↑1

@Mister Wabbit Yeah. He lend his presence {and some of his powers} to the Witch－King of Angmar for the Battle of Pelennor Fields during the Siege of Gondor.

14 More Replies...

Kaidorade

2y↑231

“What of the Wizard?”
Witch King: “I will break him”. Gives me chills every time.

Kusi Pää

Embarrasing cringe scene

Electrum Dragonix

@Logical Dude I think it was more for drama, not only did mordors armies get in and were flooding the city, Gandalf was in danger as he and pippin were confronted by the witch king

Eamonn Neeson

2y↑4

@Logical Dude because it was much more conducive to a film than in a book, where nuance is much more powerful. This is why every film is a dumbed down version of whatever story it tells, even the most cerebral films are dumbed down compared to script.

The one Sith to rule them all

The fact that one has to ask for gandalf pesificaly just Shows his power too

The one Sith to rule them all

2y↑1

@Kreuzritter Gottes but gandalf wasnt alowed to fight all out, and its questionable if he wuld have anyways in the face of death( and if he did with the balrog) since he wuld come back, and the balrog was probaly an exeption since he was a major too

8 More Replies...

apdarkness905

2y↑66

I personally think it might have been something inherently within the Witch-king even before he received his Ring of Power. Maybe he was a king who always had an appetite for conquest, and thusly was the first to succumb to the Dark Lords influence. However, unlike his fellow Nazgul, the Witch-King needed no persuading but rather choosing to serve Sauron willingly, and as such was in fact the first of the nine, and the most favored by his Master. That is my theory, but as for what truly was the reasons for the Greatest of the Nines higher status, there’s no way of knowing. Perhaps it is better left that way.

BJETNT

I would love to see a series on the witch king and the topics we are talking about! I'm just afraid whoever did it besides Peter Jackson would screw it up. For transferring things over to movies he did pretty good. There are a lot of things he changed but if he didn't the movies would have sucked compared to just going along with the books. Riding a book and making a movie is completely different I've done both.

Rafael Gustavo

2y↑190

BJETNT

I did not know that I thought that was kind of stupid and I didn't figure it was like that in the books! Thank you big time for telling me that that makes so much sense now. Yeah aragorn scaring them off by setting them on fire and then going one-on-one with a ring enhanced Gandalf the White!! Two massive different levels in power!! Does the book say why they're so different from weather top to Minas Tirath

Stephen Cooper

2y↑1

I'm a movie watcher . Not read it so I don't know if pippen was with gandalf in the books but was him being there in the movie a disadvantage to Gandalf. He could unleash a lot of power but was he worrying about pippen. 🤔

Fito Porsot AMVS

@artur le perokè There is a quote from Tolkien that reads: Callate

Alejandro Alonso

2y↑5

artur le perokè

18 More Replies...

ThoughtOnFire222

2y↑63

I imagine that Sauron looked upon The Witch King in a relation that resembled his own relationship with Morgoth. He was a Protege, Apprentice, Pupil, Student and etc. What I love about your content is how you delve deep into the Lore and present it in a way that adds so much depth and further questions to ponder. Really a fresh breath of soul air that is greatly appreciated. Thank you so much! Cheers!

dlevi67

@Abner Cliff We don't know what Sauron promised the Nazgul; the rings were designed from the start to enslave their bearers to Sauron. Morgoth never enslaved Sauron - if he even could.

And - repeat - there is a fundamental difference between being a slave who has no will of his own and being someone that of free will follows a deluded promise.

Abner Cliff

2y↑2

@dlevi67 Sauron is a slave to morgoths will in the sense that any evil thing he does, happens because of melkors discord. It's his will being executed through beings like Sauron and Saruman. Same goes for the balrogs. He also was deceived in the sense that morgoth promised Sauron that he would be able to bring his order through morgoths control of the free people's. This of course never happened because morgoth was defeated. While not exactly the same as saurons corruption of the nazgul they too were promised immortality and were tricked into becoming slaves

dlevi67

2y↑1

@Abner Cliff I'm not sure that Sauron was 'deceived' by Morgoth; he switched "from Aule" because he thought he could bring order under Morgoth, and impose his will to the whole world according to his designs, whereas the Valar (and the Maiar who continued serving/honouring them) would not impose their will on the Children of Iluvatar.

The power level is important, in the sense that the Witch King is a slave - in all senses of the word - to Sauron's will; Sauron was a servant but not a slave to Morgoth.

Abner Cliff

2y↑3

@dlevi67 well the power level is less important than the thematic parallels between the characters, for instance Sauron was deceived by morgoth much as the nazgul were decieved by sauron

dlevi67

@Abner Cliff Still a mortal - incomparably less powerful than an Ainur, never mind a powerful Ainur.

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Alexi S.

2y↑58

I think it was a combination of factors. He was of Numenorian descent so that would have had given him more powers of strength and mind. According to legend he most likely, along with the other Nazgul, practiced sorcery when he was a mortal Man. He was a powerful king among Men, a Black Numenorian. Another factor is he might have received the most powerful of the rings that were given to the 9 by Sauron. Thus the Witch King was able to perceive and understand his designs much more than the others. The WK you could say filled the same role for Sauron that Sauron himself had with Melkor-Morgoth.

Orroin the Wise

2y↑55

"Do you not know death when you see it, old man?!? This is my hour!!!"

One of my favorite bad guys ever 😍 The more u want to know his past the less u find out. Even if it's not cannon I'd like to see an interpretation of his origins. I imagine his fall to darkness was slow and methodical, like with Smeagol.
I always found it odd that he wasn't named, like with Khamul
If he's the most powerful why no name? cue mysterious music

dlevi67

2y↑2

@Joe And in his spare time he worked for the Alliteration Alliance of Arnor, Anduin Vale and Adjacent Allotments? I think I remember the guy.

Thomas Wright

2y↑1

@Joe "🧀 CHEESE 🧀 FOR 🧀EVERYONE! 🧀" - Madgod Sheogorath.

Orroin the Wise

2y↑1

@Joe 🤣🤣🤣

Joe

2y↑11

His name was Andy. Andy Angmar.
He was in a band. Andy Angmar and the Aardvarks.
He had his own brand of cheese. Andy Angmar's Asiago.
He wrote a book about controlling your temper. "Assuage Your Anger by Andy Angmar"
He had a pet food store that catered to Aardvark owners. Andy Angmar's Ant-Mart

🐐👽🐏 Pharaohs Magician

2y↑1

The Shadow of Mordor games are really interesting lore wise check videos out on the witch king in the game

3 More Replies...

Archades

2y↑72

I suspect the answer in part is simple and tragic. That the man that became the witch-king was the not merely the greatest of the nine in life. But also the best. The strongest will, the purest spirit, perhaps even one of old believers during the darkening of Numenor. The purest heart that is finally corrupted often becomes the most vile.

BJETNT

2y↑1

@Archades Thanks for the info because my own is lacking too lol! I have never read the books so I appreciate you taking the time to respond and tell me everything! Thanks for being cool I appreciate it.

Archades

2y↑1

@BJETNT The Numenorians were versed in magic, though more of the sort taught to them by the Eldar. In fact the Steward Denethor was said to be a wizard of great learning and power, not much less than Gandalf the Grey. Aragorn also knew of some such magic, though by his own admission was rather lacking. Though the rest of your theory could equally be true. The man who became the Witch King may have been the worst of the Black Numenorians.

BJETNT

I think it's pretty simple too one way or another. I honestly think he had the most power cuz he was already the most evil. He might have been somebody that was worshiping sauron and Melcor! What's weird is we don't see any men practicing magic at all that I can think of. I have not read the Simarillian though! I can think of people like the black numanors that had more magic in them cuz they were stronger tougher and lived longer but inherent magic I don't remember them being able to do things like that. But if he was already a super strong and evil at heart I imagine the ring would even enhance that more. Cuz only the more evil beings can really wield the dang thing to its potential. It cannot be used by the good. Which is different than the other three Elven rings! We just know it enhances what's already there. So this is what makes sense to me but I'm not trying to be a smart aleck or know it all I welcome your opinions

D Smith

2y↑2

Agree. The other 8 I believe were easily corrupted. The Witchking was the the strongest in life, so is as a wraith. He would also be Sauron’s choice to be their leader.

spamhere1123

2y↑6

I like this thought. Another great example is Boromir and Faramir. Boromir was always considered the stronger, the more charismatic, the greater leader...but that pride and strength was turned to weakness against the temptation of the Ring. Faramir was always considered the lesser son, especially by his father--a poor replacement for the son he had lost in a wild goose chase, a good man, but not the warrior or the leader Boromir was. But within that more humble man was a strength to resist temptation. Faramir had a great quote in Two Towers, which I will paraphrase to the best of my memory: "I love not the sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness. I love only what they protect."

2 More Replies...

Hailey

2y↑29

In the History of Middle earth Volume 8, there was an early version of the Witch King, who was a numenorean wizard who accepted a ring of power. Although no longer canon due to the fallen wizard character was changed into Saruman, and the wizard king changed into the witch king, it still, in my mind at least, gives us an idea of where the witch king was from in the mind of Tolkien.

Thomas Wright

2y↑1

Then again, Tolkien did love his parallels.

Lobomaru02

2y↑33

A friend of mine has theorized that the Witch King was not just any Numenorian, but the son of King Ar-Pharazon himself as a potential contributor to his great power.

Dillon Olander

2y↑1

@FabianE Gulbrandsen I agree it would be cool if the Witch King was a fellow descendant of Elros

TheBigGuppy

2y↑1

No he was the 2nd son of the 12th king of Numenor

Jeffrey Gao

2y↑2

Interesting idea.

FabianE Gulbrandsen

2y↑4

@Dillon Olander perhaps Its within the late kings blood line? A family that still used their knowledge and power? And he corrupted them?

Dillon Olander

2y↑5

I don't think so, the Nazgul got their rings 2000 years before the fall of Numenor.

1 More Replies...

EB

2y↑14

The Witch King might have been loyal and/or more aligned in thinking to Sauron before his descent into a ring wraith. Might have been more successful with victories. Sauron might have given him more power to show his favour.

Shadowofchaos 89

2y↑19

In my world Sauron saw his nazgul as puppets. He can manipulate and control men but his chief was the last werewolf of Tol-in-Gaurhoth. He protects a secret power of Melkors. The last werewolf taught and twisted the Witchking into the Chief of the Nazgul. This werewolf is the alpha of the North pack of wargs. His name is Bubhoshum Gaurhoth and he can take the shape of a man.

Zachiboi

2y↑6

Tolkien actually had the idea of making the Witch-King originally part of the Istari who would have been mortal men from Numenor, given a ring by Sauron some way or another and eventually abandoning the Istari to serve Sauron alike to Saruman. I guess that would have diminished that sense of mystery.

Beleg

2y↑5

I also thought they were more powerful when nearer to Sauron, perhaps especially while beneath the shade belched forth by Orodruin. Wre they not weak while Sauron was also weak for centuries? This seems to demonstrate that the Nazgûl are mostly extensions of Sauron so if one is more powerful than the rest it is likely due to a stronger link with Sauron. Perhaps he was the first to be turned and Sauron was unable or unwilling to tie up as much of his being in later creations, having a finite will. It is made clear that he put much of himself into the creation of the one ring so there may have been a similar cleaving of his power to the lesser rings or their thralls.

Julie Bryan

2y↑5

A few ideas: What if the witch king were the only one of the Nazgul to still retain his ring while Sauron held the other eight? Would this make him more powerful? Maybe Sauron simply wanted to impart some of his power to the witch king so as to have a pupil. Similar to how Sauron served Morgoth in the early ages. Great video as always, Yoystan!

Mees Keessen

2y↑9

Hello Men of the West, interesting video as always! I made an hour long music summary from the three melodies to the end of the war of Wrath. And your video's really inspired me and were quite helpful. So thank you very much.

Wesley Sobik

2y↑14

Got a witch king action figure last month and it's exactly as cool as I thought it was going to be

James Frost

2y↑13

Whether on the page or on the screen, I always get chills when the Witch-king swoops in to kill Theoden at Pelennor Fields.

SnowWarning

2y↑3

Most of the Witch-kings exceptional powers stem from the fact that Tolkien conceived of him as an evil wizard when writing most of LotR. Before Tolkien determined wizards were embodied Maiar and not just old men with magical powers, the leader of the Nazgul was named the Wizard-king in his drafts of LotR - which includes relatively close to final versions of the chapters involving the siege of Minas Tirith.

Nerd Detective

2y↑6

Gwillock

2y↑1

Great video! The witch king is hands down my favorite lotr villain. He is one of if not the most diverse character in Tolkien's universe and his back story is as mysterious as it is intriguing.

Justin Shaddix

Great topic and video! You’ve inspired my thoughts: the bad guys like to have lieutenants and the Witch King is Sauron’s lieutenant. An extension of himself strengthen by his own infernal power.

Sauron saw a capable Númenóreans sorcerer who would make a perfect extension of his hand…

The Truth Hurts

2y↑3

Just as Sauron poured his power into the One Ring, Morgoth poured his into Arda itself. I would surmise that the "sorcerors" probably gained their strength through the power of Morgoth's corruption, and the Witch King's ability to do so was enhanced by his Ring of Power.

Souledex

That's how the One power works in the wheel of time which does in some writings just a later age of middle earth (obviously as extended universe but still the author thought about this a lot). Actually it was initially a power he devised just for his servants that kind of got beyond the Dark One's control. His later servants could draw on a separate source of power directly from the Dark One called the True Power as most of his influence is still trapped beyond creation by the creator - actually it was in discovering some extradimensional magical place of power that could allow more power-wielders to work together in unison and magically drilling into it accidentally that got the Dark One out of their prison in the Age of Legend. But the one power itself is just the two parts (male and female) that drive the Wheel of Time sort of like the power of fate, or nature, or the ambient continual procession of creation.

Miss Mahinay

2y↑1

The witch king’s screeches always use to scare the crap out of me! Love this video! Thank you 💛

TheBigGuppy

2y↑3

Murazor, the second son of the 12th king of Numenor was certainly a powerful sorcerer.

Jeff MacLeod

2y↑6

Interesting description of ‘spiritual magic’ - thank-you.

Jeff MacLeod

@John Canary Tolkien once described The Lord of the Rings as a Catholic work.

John Canary

2y↑1

Well, there’s comparisons between Tolkien’s characters and characters in the Bible.

gdubsterz

2y↑2

The other nazgul were portrayed as almost bestial. Remember them sniffing for the ring for example. They weren't portrayed as being particularly sentient anymore. I suppose the WItch Kings status with Sauron as the leader of the 9 allowed for him to retain more of his former self than the others or perhaps he wasn't as weak as they were and while the other 8 were essentially reduced to mindless slaves his spirit was stronger and endured the transformation to what he became better and thus he was more powerful.

AP

Khamul was put in charge of Dol Guldur, so I doubt they were mindless. Slaves, yes, but the Nazgul also served as generals and rulers, so they had independent thought and absolute loyalty.

GreenMan1986x

2y↑1

Here's a question: Why didn't this powerful Nazgul have a greater affect earlier on in the Fellowship of the Ring when everyone was more vulnerable and Gandalf was a grey Wizard? In the movie Return of the King it was as if they were waiting to unleash his true powers to destroy Gondor.

Thomas Wright

2y↑9

I think the Witch King was a Ninja Wizard. Gandalf was only a Wizard and not a Ninja.

Glenn Ross

2y↑1

When we were kids one of my brothers had an action figure of the twilight-witch king (the ghost form Frodo sees them as when wearing the ring), it was one of the collest most detailed action figures I had ever seen at the time.

Tony Hinrichs

2y↑1

I LOVE the idea that he could somehow draw power from his master for me it would have to be at least part that in order for him to stand against a powerful Maiar spirit such as Gandalf!

Happy Wheeler

2y↑2

While I agree that the Wk is powerful, he is less so in the third age as Sauron does not possess the one ring. Also Wk was at his weakest when he ruled Angmar. His strongest was in the Second Age.

But is the Wk greater than all other 8 put together? I would say no.

Lowell Lucas Jr.

2y↑1

I always believed anything closest to Sauron, or any powerful Maiar/Valar, would exude traits, power or even become physical influenced by their very appearance. It would explain why his face was that of hellfire with glowing red eyes...almost an Ethereal form similar to Sauron. Even just Saurons Ring can greatly influence anyone snd had dramatic effects upon them.

Don Brunt

I always looked at the continuity from Melkor seducing Sauron to his service extending to the Witchking being seduced into Saurons service. To be more useful to their masters they were taught arcane lore which made them more powerful and thus useful.

Jayjay

2y↑1

I hoped we'll see the human life of the Witch-king prior of him becoming a Nazgul at the upcoming Amazon TV series.

Sage of Caledor

2y↑1

Great video. I think the Witch King was one of those Black Numenoreans who conquered lands in middle earth and established kingdoms. I think he might have delved into forbidden magic before Sauron got to him and Sauron augmented his abilities.

Ovie Kpolugbo

2y↑1

You mentioned that possibly the Witch-King had drawn power from Morgoth. I think it's quite possible that Morgoth could be the source of much evil magic (especially among mortals) since Morgoth spent his power buffing his servants, and much of his essence (ingredient) is still an innate part of nature. Sauron may have known how to harness Morgoth's evil energy from nature. On Numenor Sauron was essentially a priest for Morgoth, and although his devotion was probably insincere, his teachings probably had a pay-off for his followers who may have including the future Witch-King. Furthermore, there is evidence that subtly hints that Sauron was making use of Morgoth's leavings. For instance, Mordor itself was created by Morgoth. Mount Doom in particular seems to be supernatural as it's where the One was created/destroyed. The One itself is made of gold, which is said to house more of Morgoth's essence (as opposed to silver). Anyway, the Witch-King's an enigma wrapped in a riddle.

WPW

I have always imagined that the Witch-king was somehow a relative of the Line of Kings - perhaps a brother or cousin, who helped lead the cults of Numenor in their rise before the Fall of Numenor. The Witch-king may have been a mighty commander at a time, perhaps involved in the Battle of the Gwathlo, a member of the forces of Tar-Minastir that chased down retreating forces of Sauron; it is said that Sauron and his retreated forces were caught in Calenardhon, and I do wonder if it isn't possible that a young family member of the Line of Kings, one who would never truly be King but bears the blood of a King, could be seduced with a rare gift - an offering, in exchange for Saurons life.

Upon his return to Numenor, the Witch-king would decay, and bring with him the darkest of all perversions and worships into the great island. Drawing on the power within the ring that allows him to be great, a mighty sorcerer, the second most powerful Man in all of Numenor to only the King, he is corrupted and twisted, made a vassal, perhaps even a living avatar for Sauron. I go so far as to think the Witch-king, who had a fascination with debasing the great forts and kingdoms of the Line of Numenor, may have built a dark tower on one of the great mountains of Numenor, as an insult to the Tower of Oromet - an act that would go on to inspire the Witch-kings fortress of Carn Dum in Angmar, his capture of Fornost, and the utter twisting of Minas Ithil.

There is certainly a lot more to the Witch-king than the other Nazgul, even Khamul, and it is interesting to ponder what he might've been.

Joe

2y↑3

I know the movies really stress the power of the Witch King, and we're left to assume that the other eight nazgul are inferior. However, in the books I don't see where the Witch King actually demonstrated any significant power greater than his fellow Nazguls (in a direct comparison to the others). He just seems to be the featured Nazgul and the leader. On Weathertop he's described as being taller than the others, and he has a crown. To me, he always just seemed like the boss Nazgul rather than something much more powerful than the others.

Two events where his superiority should have been demonstrated but wasn't:
He fled with the other four at Weathertop when faced with Aragorn and 4 hobbits.
He was washed away into the Bruinen with the other eight outside of Rivendell.

Mage Aramil

Hmmm
Weaklings

Alejandro Alonso

And it is revealed in the books that Gandalf bested the nine and made them flee while he was alone.

Royalty Free

2y↑3

I mean the dude has spent thousands of years serving Sauron. He’s obviously had a lot of time to learn and master black sorcery

Chris Cooper

He was clearly an exceptional person in life, so it makes sense that his voluntary servitude to Sauron would enhance that. Also, that he had a singular fate may have added to his power: balancing his foretold doom with (relatively) short-term gains. That would seem in keeping with the idea that great power always came with a corresponding cost in Tolkien's world.

William Ballard

I just want to add that I am in love with your videos and channel. You do your homework and it shows. You love to make these videos and it shows. But also, at the end of each video, you’ll tell the viewers the lesson that each character has and I love it

Jim Bombadill

2y↑1

Well i think its a combination, of him being very powerful before having the ring, the ring enhansing his powers while "alive" and ones getting under Sauron having both teaching and power from Sauron. He is most likly a numenorean that took controll over some land in the south since he clearly never was a king over numenor. Him named as a sorcerer basicly tells that he was into dark magic even when alive and i think that is what differs him from the other nazguls. The other nazguls was most likly "just" kings and leaders from the beggining. Its alos possible that the witchking came into service of Sauron earlier than the others. Gandalf says that one by one they were drawn under the power of Sauron according to their natural goodness and intention from the beggining, meaning if you were evil and had bad intentions you became a wraith quicker, and that seems very likly for the witch-king being pointed out as a sorcerer even when alive. Also the witch-king was Saurons main instrument of operation while he himself was hidding for long long years, regaining his strength. During this time he could surly not have had the strength to teach them all or give power to, so he probably choose the witchking and concentrated on him. Although he wouldnt go so far as to say that the witchking could have achieved anything against Gandalf at the gates, they couldnt bring him down all of them at weathertop...him throwing down Gandalf is mostly in the deluded mind of Peter Jaksson.

Black Knight

2y↑1

Considering his power, his skill, his strategic mind and his superiority over the other nazgul, I still finding it annoying when people say there was no chance he could be Gandalf, there is no denying that Gandalf is strong but he is still can feel like any other living been in middle earth, that being said he could feel fear, and the witch king was fear incarnated

milthy swinbuckle

2y↑1

I've sometimes mused that the Witch King might be a descendent of Aragorn? A great great great great great great grandfather or the like... However, whatever theory is thrown up, I suspect Tolkien would have addressed it at some point had he lived a little longer... though with that said, it is also a good thing to leave some things left unexplained in a story. After all, the best writers leave the reader to dream and make up their own stories within their own!

John Canary

2y↑7

The armor at 8:13 is sick. So cool.

Aner

2y↑2

I do like the idea of the Witch King's power stemming from a number of factors. He was a Numenorean King, which was powerful in itself, then his socery, likely coming from his worship of Melkor, and then power he drew from Sauron when being enlisted into his service. I think it's definitely a combination of all these factors that made him so powerful.

Jeff Again

@Aner ; actually, all the Kings of Numenor are accounted for and none were turned into Nazgul.
Yes, I believe he was a powerful Black Numenorian and also a Sorcerer but he did not receive the title of "King" until he became known as "The Witch King of Angmar", for the Arnorians had no real clue who the dude was. They thought the Nazgul all fell with Sauron at the Battle of the Last Alliance. As the war in the North progressed, they realized who they were dealing with and Glorfindel knew who he was, during the final battle up there.

Uncle Fester

2y↑3

Someone explain to me why I’ve always wondered this… if they are so powerful in the witch king himself in face down Gandolf the white how come Aragorn was so easily able to defeat them on Weather top with a torch?

Jeff Again

@Uncle Fester ; If we keep in mind, that having stabbed Frodo, The Witch King had little to gain fighting with Aragorn. The broken blade tip of the Morgul knife would do his dirty work for him, turn Frodo into a wraith and Frodo would then be at his beckoning. Why waste effort fighting Aragorn, with the possibility of Gandalf or some other assistance arriving.
(Aragorn could have been the lead of a full contingent of Rangers/Elves for all they knew). Time was (to his knowledge) on his side. It was still a VERY long way to Rivendell.

Dargron76

2y↑1

The Nazgul may not have been at full strength when they confronted Aragorn and the Hobbits at Weathertop. If I remember right, in the book Gandalf engages the Nazgul in battle there the night before the Hobbits reach it (Frodo notices a storm in the distance as he goes to sleep, and notes that the lightning seems to travel into the sky. They then find evidence that Gandalf had been there when they reach Weathertop).

It's possible that the Nazgul were severely weakened from their confrontation with Gandalf - enough for Aragorn to scare them off.

Nathan Van Til

2y↑2

The movies and the books portray those 2 scenes very differently. Gandalf and the WK never face off. They stand before each other about to do so, but the text feels slanted towards Gandalf winning… meanwhile, the instance with Aragorn fighting them all off was definitely a situation where the Ring Wraiths were too weak to handle Aragorn and 3 hobbits. I think this proves that at the time they were not at their most powerful. They had been searching for the ring for months, and had to travel all the way from Mordor to the shire before having first fight Gandalf on Weather top, and then fight Aragorn and Hobbits. I think they further from Sauron, or the longer they are away from Sauron, the weaker they become. That coupled with Fighting an archangel and one of the 2 most skilled swordsmen in Middle Earth at the time meant they had used up all their spell slots (to use a D&D term)

Luka Mijić

2y↑1

As Sauron's power grows, so does the power of the Nazgûl, since they're all connected and bound to Sauron.
And with that I believe the Nazgûl can draw their power from the Dark Lord, as someone in the comments had already mentioned.

Can't wait for your 'The Rings of Power' videos, once the series are out!! Sending much love, @Men of the West 🙏

Timothy Koeser

The really interesting thing about Tolkien's characters is that each one is connected to things historical to us. It really all has to do with what happened to our World as a result of Julius Caesar's rise to power, his assassination and how his authority was stolen from his heirs even to this day.

WyattA0

2y↑1

Thanks for making this content and having such an inviting narrative.. these videos make me feel like idk beyond home like I'm in Middle Earth and it's amazing thank you so so much Keep it up. Much Love

Annie Biggs

The Witch King of Angmar is my favorite Nazgûl out of the nine and to hear more about him in how he’s more powerful than the other Nazgûl makes him all the more fascinating and interesting great video! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

David Meza

2y↑2

'Soft' magic systems are a dying art. Still love hard magic (of Sanderson and the like) but the mystery of Tolkien (and Jordan's ideas beyond the One Power) have a special narrative tone/style

Simon McElvanney

I think we need a video explaining exactly where magic comes from in Tolkien's world. Is it a song/prayer to one of the Valar? Is it something granted by Eru? Is it as skill drawing power from a kind of Aether? Did Eru create this Aether or was it always there? Can a human perform a better song than A Maiar? A Valar? Does it come from the same area that Frodo slips into when he wears the ring?

Can Eru, a Valar, a Maiar deny a spell being granted? Does it depend on who is granting the spell or does no one decide whether it is granted or not?

D. S.

I have a pet theory that the Witch-king was one of the later Kings of Numenor, someone with immense gifts even above those of normal Numenorians, after they had begun their obsession with death & dying.

spasticColon

2y↑1

My theory is that the ring Sauron gave to the Witch-king was more powerful than the other rings given to the rest of the Nazgul.

Dave Powder

That opening quote on the breaking of the Gates of Minas Tirith calls me back to LOTRO's big battle, defending the gate. It's amazing how well represented that scene is in-game.

Dark Highwayman

2y↑1

In my head, the Witch King was more powerful because he wasn't turned to evil but always was and sought Sauron out for power he knew he could gain. Where the others were corrupted and brought down.

William Giusti

Some of the Numenorians were descended from elves, I know there is no way of proving this but perhaps the Witch-king were of mixed heritage between elves and men which would in turn make him the closest Sauron ever got to making an Elf Nazgul. If the Witch-king was indeed elf-blooded and his heritage gave him some deeper connection to the unseen world which his ring amplified considerably then it's no wonder Sauron choose him as his champion and further empowered him with his own spirit, the Black Captain was a taste of what Sauron originally intended when he forged the One to rule them all!

NeXesses •

I honestly think he is underrated, keep in mind we have never seen him close to full power given that his power is directly linked to Sauron. All of his shown powers are done when Sauron was at his weakest. Even him running from glorfindel… you can argue that if Sauron was at his strongest the battle would have gone very different.

Andrew Verrett

2y↑1

I like to think the witch king was a avatar of sorts of sauron. Sauron gave him a great deal of his own power while trying to rebuild his own power back.

Cameron Gunn

2y↑1

I think it's an interesting progression as we watch Melkor corrupt Sauron and in turn Sauron corrupt the Witch King. It is as if they are of a succession of evil.

vjm3

Do you think he had something to do with the binding of the Ghosts of the Mountain? Maybe before he became the Witch-King he did the True King a favor and made that entire army spiritually binded to their duty (which they didn't follow through on, hence their becoming a literal ghost army). It'd then be ironic that many years later he'd fall to an army using the ghost army.

Retro Hanska

I'm fine with his origins being mysterious. I'm fine with magic in Tolkien's world being very unspecified. I'm glad he had restraint to leave certain things up to our imagination because that's usually better than any proper explanation. I think too many fantasy writers have forgotten that lesson and focus way too much on exhaustively explaining the hard magic system and the lore of their works. The empty space in that lore is just as important as the filled areas.

Allen Russell

I have always thought it odd that the Witch King could believe that he could "break" a "god" (Gandalf) or that Gandalf would have any real fear of him, other than his ability to drive his forces into a slaying madness or instill fear in his foes.
Gandalf stomped two equals handily, the Balrog of Moria and, later, Saruman. The Witch King should have been a walk in the park.
If the Witch King could have posed a real threat to Gandalf then that power had to come from directly Sauron, perhaps through some special allotment of power bestowed to his ring.

TheDeadlyKnight

The Witch-king was the scourge of the 3rd age. It’s seems to me he best practiced Sauron’s knowledge of necromancy. He afflicted Middle-earth with a plague & also, as a smaller feat, conjured the wights that infested the barrow-downs of Arnor’s nobles, defiling them. Vaguely it seems he did this by familiarizing or charming the gear & jewelry of the bodies of the interred, confining the wights into the tombs. Bombadil apparently undoes the curse by confiscating the weapons & valuables and removing them from the tombs to be scattered. Thus the familiar attachment to wights gets broken. How did the Witch-king do that illumination display with the tower of Minas Ithil to signal the going forth to war? That was incredible. I don’t even think Gandalf could do that. And yes he imputed remarkable levels of destructive force into Grond to break the impenetrable Gate of Minas Tirith. Breaking that gate was thought to be impossible. It’s not as simple as “get a big ram & knock it down”

Stephan Moolman

Could the Witch-King, or one of the Nazgul, be one of the blue wizards?

Eric Strobel

Interesting, though, that the Witch King was ready to take on a Maiar (Gandalf), but fled before Glorfindel. In the latter case, Sauron was still weak, so that lends credence to the idea that WK drew his power from Sauron.

Mark Warner

I assumed a greater part of his power came from Sauron, just as Morgoth's servants were empowered by his investiture into them of part of his strength power, which left him in a weakened state (such that Fingolfin was able to mame him, and so that he was apparently unable to rebuild he outer watches of his fortress in the north). It seems like Sauron copied Morgoth in this a number of times.

Vezon 1121

Perhaps the Witch King was the high priest of Melkor, that would explain his mastery and strength.

Louis Crider

I have long loved LOTRO because of how much they delve into and sometimes tastefully expand on the lore of places like Angmar.

Doom Shade

Just a thought.. What if sauron had to place more power into the with king's ring, due to the power in which the witch king had prior to turning. With such a heavily focused ring, it would allow more of saurons power to flow through, in turn making him even stronger. With the tether, it also allows WK to harness certain abilities sauron himself has. The other wraiths weren't as powerful, so the chain on them is weaker, allowing them to have some memories of when they were alive, making it so they have fears (Water, and light). It just seems to me, that when you have a powerful knight, you are going to give him the very best, while the weaker ones get the bare necessities.

Gato Villano

Here is an hypothesis:

In Tolken's universe, the wizards are all Maiar spirits that took the apperence of men and lived amongst men.

We also know that Maiar can be ring bearers and we know that Sauron's rings can corrupt Maiar spirits as well: Gandolf being an example of this.

What if the Wicht-King of Angmar was a Maiar who decided to live amongst men. This would explain a lot.

Michael Medlinger

Interesting! Your comments brought to mind Anne Rice‘s books and the vampire Lestat. He was far and away the most powerful of any of the vampires, in part because of the strength of his will, but also because he had risked much, suffered much, and survived it all. A key element was that he became the chosen one of the Queen, the first vampire. They shared blood on numerous occasions, increasing his strength each time. He was eventually even able to tolerate sunlight, something that destroyed vampires as a rule. Perhaps the relationship between Sauron and the Witch-King is similar. As an especially powerful king and sorcerer to begin with, then (perhaps) Sauron‘s favorite, he was given strength far beyond that of the others.

Khyler Bane

2y↑1

I’ve always believed the the Witch King could beat Gandalf the White, However though, NOT in the context of magic but it the department of combat prowess, martial skill, and physical might. There has to be a reason he got the rank of the leader of the Nazgûl after all. One doesn’t become Sauron’s right hand nor Lord of the Nazgûl by being a slouch in the field of battle.

The biggest reason for this viewpoint is simple. Keep in mind that he has been conquering, fighting, waring, manipulating, dueling, among many other things, for at least an entire age(3000 years) and at most the whole Third age, and much of the Second Age(4 or 5000+ years). He has fought and clawed his way to the top of the pecking order and in doing so has had to overcome countless challenges and has (primarily) done so, albeit with varying decrees of success. And that’s not even counting the trails and struggles he went through to become king in the first place. He has had to fight every day of his life and has done just that. Carving his name into the very pages of history and gaining his position through sheer merit, will, and skill all on his own.

Gandalf(the Grey and the White) has not done that. His skill and power given to him and barely uses his full potential because he both chooses not to and is literally unable to do so because Ainur wouldn’t allow it. Among other restrictions that the Ainur placed on the wizards. Such as only acting as a guide, and never raising an army help fight in their cause. Gandalf only goes to war to stave off evil when it rears it’s ugly head and engages in battle because he needs to or he will die. Not exactly the same level as the Witch King. And (possibly) for a much shorter amount of time, as Gandalf and the other wizards exploits and fights only range during the Third Age.

In the warrior department(zero magic or powers of any kind, just pure skill and prowess), Gandalf the White and the Witch King would be on about equal footing, with the Witch King having only a slight advantage for reasons I’ve already explained. The Witch King would be the Second greatest opponent Gandalf would have ever dueled against just behind the Balrog known as Durin’s Bane.

John Smith

Tolkiens passage in Part 5 of HoME 10 makes it seem like dark magic is largely concerned with the manipulation of the Morgoth Element that infuses all matter, or where spirits are concerned dominating them through fear. I imagine that the WK was a dark magic user before receiving a Ring, where he would use Morgoth essence in working magic. After the Ring is probably when he gained the power to bind the dead, and learned the tricks to breaking spirits from Sauron who is reported to have learned this technique from Melkor.

Sacrifice to Melkor likely made the practitioner more in tune with the Morgoth Element, rather than gaining Morgoths attention. Tolkien makes it fairly clear in an earlier essay that the Morgoth was not able to contemplate the actual occurrences on Arda, though in a far distant Age he might.

pinkace

2y↑1

I think that during ‘the marring of Arda’, morgoth left part of his essence, his power on the world. Thats how morgoth damaged the world. That power is what these sorcerers tapped into maybe?

Owen Powell

2y↑1

What if he was half-man, half-maiar? Or a descendent of Thingol and Melian through which the blood of the Maiar ran strong, similar to how the blood of Numenor rang strong in Faramir?

Freaky Fridaysss

What if the Witch-King was created in the similar way that The Guardian was in World of Warcraft? A chosen magus that would be empowered by combining powers from other magus.

swordofstabbingold

I think he did more than just use the power the ring gave him; I think he honed it.

Logical Dude

I’m curious, in the books and other material (besides the movies), what power did the Witch King have other than basic sorcery? He is never shown to have any particular power in any of the Tolkien material I’ve ever seen. The Black Breath is pretty much the only directly dangerous power any of them had.

The Witch King was just a fallen man with some simple tricks (basic necromancy, incantations, enchantments). He wasn’t some kind of godlike creature the way the movies portrayed.

Never once, not a single time, have I seen him as powerful. Aragorn singlehandedly beat him and four other Nazgul with a couple firebrands at Weathertop.

HistoryFan476AD

What I find quite interesting is that for a evil guy Sauron did seem to do a bit of tutoring, teaching and advising Be it for evil or dark purposes. He taught celebrimbor ring craft, The kings men Numenoreans back when Numenor turned dark, The Witch King and possible the kings and chiefs of the Rhun and Harad peoples. And the remnants of the Dark Numenoreans like possibly The Mouth of Sauron. If he turned to good I could seen Sauron being a great teacher of Men and Elves even the dwarves.

Devin Phillips

Perhaps the Witch-King’s power was something more abstract. Something as simple as… initiative? Of the Nine, he is the only one shown to possess any shred of agency or self-awareness. That quality, whether by Sauron’s design or his own force of will, WOULD make him more dangerous, and therefore more powerful.

Larry Stehle

I would venture that he was the most powerful due to factors already covered and make well known he was Sauron's champion and thus keeping the other Nazguls in line.

Matheus Saraiva

I always understood that the Witch King was an important king of men, that became a sorcerer AFTER he was given his ring by Sauron

Steve Rogers

I can't remember where I read or learned this (it could have been I.C.E.'s MERP rpg and thus non-canon), but the Witch-King was the only one of the men that would become the Nazgul that knew exactly what a Ring of Power would do to his physical form & life.

That he bargained with Sauron that in exchange for wearing the Ring & serving Sauron, Sauron would give him the leadership of armies & nations and teach him everything he could learn of black sorcery. That, unlike the rest of the Nazgul, the Witch-King actually liked becoming a Ringwraith, not seeing it as a curse, but rather a boon. That both Sauron & the Witch-King were happy with the bargain. Sauron got an able lieutenant and field commander that he didn't have to babysit, and that the Witch-King achieved far more than he ever could as a human, leading massive armies & a nation (Angmar), and becoming the second-most powerful black sorcerer in Middle-Earth.

Abby W

Yes, I always wondered how he could challenge Gandalf, even the gray would've been impressive, but Gandalf the white? When I saw break Gandalf's staff in the movie I was a little confused, but hey, every story have their little imperfections I guess. But you made some good points Yoysten, made some sense, but this would mean the witch king could challenge Sauron since Gandalf and Sauron were Meiar

Taten Bradley

what if the character everyone thought was annatar in the new trailer is actually the witch-king before he got his ring? it would make sense to have him promote the darkness in numenor as well as develop his character as we know it in the jackson films

Elia 2000

It is said that when Earendil had his sons Elrond and Elros,both descend from Melian the maia.
When Elros became the first king of Numenor his line had maiar blood in it,in my opinion the Witch-King was one that had a lot more maia blood than the other numenoreans therefore he was the most powerful

Mike Borsum

The movies actually do a decent job of explaining how Tolkiens magic system worked. Its all about language. The language of the Gods, Valar, whatever is song, and a gods songs create. Beings that are closer to the Gods in age/ stature etc. wield the same power with words and song. Gandalf and Saruman battle with magic spells on the mountain pass, one calling the mountain to awake and crush them and one calling for it to sleep and be peaceful again. Aragorn puts Eowyn to sleep with a word of power, the Witch King is using words of power taught to him by Sauron. All magic "spells" in Tolkien's world are words of power in some powerful language, be it the language of Eru Illuvatar, or the Valar Morgoth. Remember Tom Bombadil always singing about how his songs are "better" and stronger? Tom is "The Eldest" and "The Master."

Perceived Velocity

IMO he had vast knowledge and the intelligence to use the information that he learned. His "power" was knowledge and the ability to apply it.

smmontis 831

Personally I always thought and swear that in my paperback version of return of the king that it was explained that arpharazon last king of numeror was the witch king, but that was changed in later editions..

Jeff Reed

Seems reasonable Sauron imbued the witch-king with power in the same way Morgoth imbued Sauron , only less so due to the power which morgoth possessed as opposed to Sauron. Sauron put his power into the one ring so who’s to say in some facet he duplicated this process on a smaller scale with the witch-king, possibly using the ability or power of other Maia or Aniur lesser than himself who also followed Morgoth

d k

2y↑1

He was so powerful to make the good side seem not over powered

Tony USA

Talking about realm of Sourcery.. you remind me of the "New Shadow" and the black Tree. Probably that was the next chapter of Tolkien's work. Also, we will never know what happen to the blue wizards.. maybe they could raise in the East and command evil spirits?

Midknight0122

I always felt like he was perhaps more of a willing servant and got more out of his becoming a wraith since he had at least a semblance of a personality left, wheras the others where far less distinct.

Comicnut64

2y↑5

Here we go one of the most metal villains ever

kawadec

It says something that during Sauron's Third Age absence the Witch-King became functionally a sort of third dark lord. Had his will and powers not been so inextricably bound to his master, I could have seen him taking the reins as humanity's main adversary in the Fourth Age.

Matthew Strenger

Here’s a thought- and I’ll draw on a bit of D&D lore for this:
The Witch King was a numenorean warlock. Warlocks gain their power through binding themselves to a supernatural spirit (usually a demon or evil god.)
I bet one of two things happened:
1. Before the Fall of anime or, the Witch King was a warlock that tried to bind himself to Morgoth. When Sauron approached him, he still retained that binding to his old Master and Sauron recognized his intelligence and power.

2. The Witch King wasn’t bound to Morgoth, but when Sauron offered him his ring, the warlock had the intelligence and will to make it a binding and essentially bargained for Sauron to give him power as his warlock rather than a slave like the other Nazgûl. Sauron accepted, recognizing he’d need an able lieutenant he could still keep on a strong leash.

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