Christopher Daniel Soriano, Jr. (born January 4, 1997), known professional… Read Full Bio ↴Christopher Daniel Soriano, Jr. (born January 4, 1997), known professionally as CJ, is an American rapper and songwriter from Staten Island, New York. He is best known for his 2020 breakout single "Whoopty", which peaked at number 3 on the UK Singles Chart and at number 10 on the US Billboard Hot 100. The song was later included on his debut EP, Loyalty over Royalty, released on February 19, 2021.

Never
CJ Lyrics

Jump to: Overall Meaning ↴ Line by Line Meaning ↴

Pull up in the
Ugh, yeah
I'ma pull in the spaceship
You know its the matrix
Pull up in a spaceship
Feel like its the matrix
Roll up to your city and I know you ain't gon say shit
Niggas from the jungle and they pull up on some ape shit

Know I'll never fumble
And you Russell with the late pick
Pull up in a spaceship
Feel like its the matrix
Roll up to your city and I know you ain't gon say shit
Niggas from the jungle and they pull up on some ape shit
Know I'll never fumble
And you Russell with the late pick
Your bitch she's so basic
Hit it and replace it
Know her from behind cause I can't remember faces
If I ever hit it missionary, you my favorite
Even then I'll probably hesitate to call you baby
This shit is crazy
These niggas they be switching they sides
I know they hate me
I'm making they bitch slip when I slide
And its amazing cause I can see the truth in your lies
And man one is so ghetto I need like two at a time
So baby girl what's up?
I just rolled another blunt
And I got a double cup
Watch my money double up
Told my team to huddle up
Devin Hester: watch me run it back
Pull up in some shit that really probably got the front in back
Pull up in a spaceship
Feel like its the matrix
Roll up to your city and I know you ain't gon say shit
Niggas from the jungle and they pull up on some ape shit
Know I'll never fumble
And you Russell with the late pick
Pull up in a spaceship
Feel like its the matrix
Roll up to your city and I know you ain't gon say shit
Niggas from the jungle and they pull up on some ape shit
Know I'll never fumble
And you Russell with the late pick
You know I'm the man of the year
My IQ, GQ
I'm the man with the gear
The damage is clear
My niggas is all savages
Ravages leave no ravishes
Pack a spliff then I pass the shit
Yeah
I'm finna get it
I'm never pretending
They hating forget em I'm winning
Ugh
And I'm on a mission you know I ain't missing
I get it I get it I get it
Ugh
So roll another one we gon get high now
Pour me up a cup and toast to life we to the sky now
Yeah we put em to the sky now
Yeah
And we toast to life now
Duke Devlin with the dice now
Gambling your life away they pull up to your site now
Pull up in a spaceship
Feel like its the matrix
Roll up to your city and I know you ain't gon say shit
Niggas from the jungle and they pull up on some ape shit
Know I'll never fumble
And you Russell with the late pick
Pull up in a spaceship
Feel like its the matrix
Roll up to your city and I know you ain't gon say shit
Niggas from the jungle and they pull up on some ape shit

Know I'll never fumble
And you Russell with the late pick

Overall Meaning

In CJ's song "Never", the rapper is describing his confidence and dominance in the rap game. He compares himself to a spaceship, suggesting that he is out of this world and superior to other rappers. He also references the movie "The Matrix", which is about a protagonist who is similarly confident and operating on a higher level of existence than those around him. He boasts about his success, claiming that he will never "fumble" or make mistakes, while others "Russell with the late pick". He also asserts his sexual prowess, casually dismissing women he has been with, and celebrates his lifestyle of smoking and drinking.

Line by Line Meaning

Pull up in the
Arrive in style

Ugh, yeah
Empathetic acknowledgment of an exciting moment

I'ma pull in the spaceship
Driving an impressive vehicle

You know its the matrix
Feeling like a character from the popular movie

Roll up to your city and I know you ain't gon say shit
Arrive confidently without fear of repercussion

Niggas from the jungle and they pull up on some ape shit
Tough guys show up acting aggressively

Know I'll never fumble
Confident in my abilities and never messing up

And you Russell with the late pick
Comparing oneself to a successful athlete

Your bitch she's so basic
The girl is unoriginal and lacking in distinction

Hit it and replace it
Casual sex with no emotional attachment

Know her from behind cause I can't remember faces
Not valuing or paying attention to personal relationships

If I ever hit it missionary, you my favorite
Expressing a preference for a particular sexual position

Even then I'll probably hesitate to call you baby
Not interested in a committed or emotional relationship

This shit is crazy
Reflecting on the wild lifestyle

These niggas they be switching they sides
Commenting on disloyalty and betrayal

I know they hate me
Realizing that some people dislike me

I'm making they bitch slip when I slide
Giving other guys' girls attention and interest

And its amazing cause I can see the truth in your lies
Not being fooled by people who are not genuine

And man one is so ghetto I need like two at a time
Attracted to a tough, street lifestyle

So baby girl what's up?
Asking a potential love interest if she's interested

I just rolled another blunt
Preparing to smoke marijuana

And I got a double cup
Drinking a mixture of alcohol and soda

Watch my money double up
Having financial success and prosperity

Told my team to huddle up
Taking the lead and rallying the troops

Devin Hester: watch me run it back
Comparing oneself to a successful football player

Pull up in some shit that really probably got the front in back
Driving a car so impressive that it looks like it's modified

You know I'm the man of the year
Celebrating one's own talent and success

My IQ, GQ
Comparing intelligence and fashion sense to societal standards

I'm the man with the gear
Having the best clothing and accessories

The damage is clear
Seeing the aftereffects of one's own actions

My niggas is all savages
Surrounding oneself with tough, aggressive friends

Ravages leave no ravishes
Destroying everything in sight without concern for the consequences

Pack a spliff then I pass the shit
Sharing marijuana with friends

I'm never pretending
Being real and authentic at all times

They hating forget em I'm winning
Ignoring jealous haters and continuing to be successful

And I'm on a mission you know I ain't missing
Focused on a goal without distractions

So roll another one we gon get high now
Preparing to smoke more marijuana and relax

Pour me up a cup and toast to life we to the sky now
Celebrating life's successes and being optimistic about the future

Duke Devlin with the dice now
Referencing a fictional character known for gambling

Gambling your life away they pull up to your site now
The risks of dangerous or illegal behavior catching up to you

Lyrics © O/B/O DistroKid, Sentric Music
Written by: Carlos Norris, Jeffriel Lichtenberg

Lyrics Licensed & Provided by LyricFind

To comment on or correct specific content, highlight it

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Comments from YouTube:

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑527

Thanks for valuable comments, guys! Once again, we are sorry about comparing weed to PCP.. We do realize that we are not experts when it comes to drugs or other fields that are mentioned, but we are always trying to provide you the best quality we can. And well, sometimes there might occur some mistakes such as bad pronunciation or the lack of knowledge, but we promise to avoid these situations as much as we can! 🙂

@warfilmstudio3020

I have one question. Why you founded this eglish chanell. ?

@trey4319

2y↑4

hey what mods do you use

@pauljones364

2y↑7

Wrote my comment before I read this 😂. Apology accepted, you must of got a lot of comments teaching you the difference.

@DocCool94

2y↑14

This explains why Ryder was never meant to be a traitor, I blame it all on Rockstar Games since they're the ones who drove Ryder's voice actor to quit. So leave it to them a-holes at Rockstar Games to ruin what was suppose to be the "Best PS2 Game of All Time". I really hope that somebody remakes the entire GTA: San Andreas game, but this time have Ryder not be a traitor, but more of an ally that'll help CJ throughout the game.

@cloud67899

Weed is pretty much underground coveted medicine

32 More Replies...

@quitehat7819

2y↑4K

I had a feeling Ryder was never meant to be a traitor. He did mention a green saber until Big Smoke change the conversation. Him mentioning the green saber was kind of a clue he was speaking the truth and another hint he was never a traitor. Unlike Big Smoke who ALWAYS avoided the conversation about CJs mom and who killed her.

@yuxomgaming9824

2y↑337

He was also the most keen in the friend group when sending Ballas into their graves and hospitals. Really shows he was never meant to be a traitor unlike smoke who had many foreshadowing in his cutscenes.

@romansionis2470

2y↑326

His missions also were beneficial for Grove Street unlike Smoke's

@yuxomgaming9824

2y↑187

@King Thor yep, smoke was showing signs of being a buster in missions where he's involved. Ryder was being jealous of CJ because he wants to be recognized like CJ and prove he's as good as CJ too so it wouldn't make sense to make him betray without any reason.

@bakihanma5849

2y↑39

@Yuxom Gaming thought being jealous of cj's position was good enough reason for the betrayal. he always hated on him and really wanted to be recognized as sweet's right hand man at least but if sweet was ignoring this fact then ryder had reasons to betray them

@yuxomgaming9824

2y↑97

@Baki Hanma That doesn't make any sense. Ryder was jealous but doesn't hate them. He was clearly determined to prove to the Grove OGs that he's just as capable as CJ is. Betraying them will go against Ryder's ego himself.

79 More Replies...

@extraterrestrial4597

2y↑915

When a game still got controversies after 18 years, u know it's a gem

@nah3826

1y↑27

and doing these numbers of views sheesh... forever a classic

@anthonysanabria7779

1y↑6

💯

@hannibalburgers477

1y↑2

Not for the right reasons tho.

@cleofortuin8475

True

@gottizway1375

1y↑1

True

3 More Replies...

@elperrodelautumo7511

2y↑2.2K

Ryder wasn’t meant to betray Grove street families. The fact that Ryder being killed off felt very odd. The last lines he had in the pier 69 felt like minor. Instead of understanding further why he decided to betray the families. Truly the beta draft would’ve had something different.

@Carl_Johnson.

2y↑70

He recorded new lines for the introduction

@-_-Sggger

2y↑38

Yeah it's like ryder put in all of this last-minute and crash pressured on him because the robbing uncle Sam and the heist mission

@caracaes

2y↑90

Also there's no death cutscene or dialogue for Ryder.

@RaftFx

2y↑4

I know right..

@RaftFx

2y↑3

@Jonatas Silveira Baldo ye

18 More Replies...

@rayvenkman2087

2y↑1.2K

He should have died in the mission Green Sabre during the gunfight part. Would have made Big Smoke’s betrayal and Tenpenny’s actions all the more devastating by having a fellow homie die on you in a repeat of Brian’s death as well as more reason to get back at Tenpenny for costing you two of your closest friends.

It could have been one of the worst betrayals because unlike Vice City or IV, you actually lose a friend through it and you’re left angry at the villains for the act. One that seriously has an effect on the player from then on.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑214

Yeah! And funny enough, if that happened then the mission would be even more unique because each one of the OGs would end up in other situation - Big Smoke betrays, Ryder dies, Sweet gets in jail, while Carl is taken out of town. 🙂

@ammagon4519

2y↑70

@Gaming Investigators (Hubson Games) that actually gives much more impact tbh, cause 2 characters betraying and Ryder is barely important in the betrayal has always bugged me.

@MerlautZone

2y↑7

Yesss, I've been saying the same thing!

@comfy88338

2y↑36

Exactly. I always pretend that he died in that shootout once Pier 69 is completed.

@MrDmoney156

2y↑19

same exact idea i came up with too! damn, we're better writers than Rockstar themselves lmao!

13 More Replies...

@duffydreamer

2y↑1.8K

I honestly didn't want Ryder to betray us in the game, those missions we did for him, indicated that he was at least supporting Grove Street unlike Smoke but shockingly we see him reveal his true colours before leaving Los Santos....that was a huge disappointment.

@seifeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

2y↑159

I didn't care much about Big Smoke's betrayal but Ryder... he has those best friend vibes with CJ, like you know how he is fucking with him all the time. At the time i thought it was shit writting that he betrayed GSF when all his missions were to help them. Makes sense that due to behind the scenes problems , they just said "fuck it" and killed him with the betrayal excuse.

@katakurithecalamity9840

2y↑64

the thing is in the green saber mission cutscene CJ don't acknowledge his presence and only talk about big smoke even after CRASH took him to country side he only bring big smoke to the argument not even mentioning Ryder

@friedchicken5247

2y↑2

What happen?

@yuxomgaming9824

2y↑36

He was even the one who revealed the green sabre, he was also the most keen on putting the Ballas into hospitals

@ayo_tre7278

2y↑52

They made Ryder betray you because Ryder’s voice actor got into an argument and he quit so he wasn’t there for anymore voice lines

15 More Replies...

@aussieknuckles

2y↑500

Ryder betraying the familes is the most disappointing thing I've ever had to deal with in a GTA game, and as other people have stated, it didn't feel right.

@Richnrollinbeats

2y↑15

I honestly think the heartbreak in this game from some of the betrayal was ironically the cherry on top immortalizing the game

@aussieknuckles

2y↑9

@VaunBugg it definitely was, but it was still a shock. I liked Ryda up until he started weezling around with Smoke.

@drigonfirefox

1y↑11

Bruh I hate it because ryder looks so much like eazy that it just feels double fuckes up.

@theinformationbomber7102

1y↑2

yeah same here for me too

@thehotbox7474

Ryder shoulda died in the shootout. It woulda hurt CJ and drove him crazy for revenge.

2 More Replies...

@mitcheltheman1366

2y↑977

Don't forget that the cutscene where Cesar claimed Ryder tried to bang Kendl came out of nowhere since there were never even any hints Ryder was attracted to Kendl at all, let alone try to bang her. If that were true, then Kendl would have told CJ and Sweet a lot earlier than that since she told CJ that she was being insulted by the construction workers. That's why it's called "SHOW, DON'T TELL!"

@user-so4ov7re3s

2y↑158

I don't think Ryder EVER talks about Kendl.. Like at all.

@duffydreamer

2y↑124

Yeah when Caesar said that, I was thinking 'Where the hell did that come from? And if he had tried something 'funny' why didn't Kendl mention it to CJ or Sweet earlier?

@duffydreamer

2y↑29

@فهد الدوسري Nope! Not one word of Ryder ever mentioning Kendl at all.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑24

True, mate 👍

@malletUsergaming

2y↑37

There doesn't need to be hints? Also there is many reasons why she might not tell sweet or CJ that, maybe she didn't know how to open up to them about such an embarrassing topic or could have been scared, she knew that by dobbing in Ryder could make things worse for her brothers sake but also her own. The construction worker incident was a different situation, they were insulting how she looked, not sexually abusing her.

63 More Replies...

@hardblowz_

2y↑2K

I think because of the argument that happened between R* and Mc Eiht, R* wanted us to kill his in-game character. Kinda infamous but R* North has always had a harsh side. And there were time constrains, we can see the final missions part being far less developed and engaging than the first parts of the story. Big Bear had to have a major involvement here but it was scrapped due to time absence.

@R1ckRossFromLatvia

Was there any proof that there was a conflict between R* and MC Eiht? This things keep popping all the time, but without any evidence.

@hardblowz_

2y↑102

@R1ckRossFromLatvia ironically there's more proof that there was no conflict

@joshingram071

2y↑186

MC Eiht was on tour the later part of 2004 due to him dropping a album which is why they changed around the fate of Ryder. Due to him not being able to finish his voice work

@hardblowz_

2y↑74

@JoshIngram071 i never thought about that he had tour preps, anyway Ryder's betrayal ended up being rushed and lacking of drama.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑172

Yeah, it's a pity that Rockstar couldn't like wait a bit for Mc Eiht to have more free time or arrange some better moment instead of saying that's all we wanted from you.. And as you said about Big Bear, presumably the storyline could also look much different with him having more involvement :/

34 More Replies...

@dagroundbreaka

2y↑629

Even his death scene was underwritten. I mean come on. Are we really supposed to believe that a gangster armed with an AK-47 would just jump into the ocean and attempt to escape via boat instead of actually using the weapon? Even during the boat chase, he isn't even trying to avoid getting killed. Worst sendoff to who is one of the most iconic characters of the game.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑43

Sucks as hell..

@raulperez3606

2y↑4

Could also be that Ryder knew cj was a force to be wreckoned with n probably wouldn't be able to stop him.

@andy34isabor89

2y↑9

@nemo pouncey I think Eazy-e was killed by a stubbed toe after he got HIV. Shit put him down to 1hp

@vgc_ivan8391

2y↑3

Agree, out of the members Ryder had the worst ending. Even I wasn't happy when I first beat it

@dylanmurphy9389

2y↑7

@Johnathan Anderson it went down as a covid death actually

6 More Replies...

@muhammadfahimmansur2086

1y↑25

A personal experience.
The first time I played San Andreas, I skipped the cutscene where Ryder and Big Smoke were shown with the Green Sabre. Therefore, I never knew they betrayed the gang. However, as Big Smoke was mentioned a few times afterwards, I knew he was a problem. Suddenly in Pier 69 mission, Ryder appears and we are commanded to kill him. I was like, WHAAAAAAAAT?

@jasonfring6584

49w↑7

Skip 1 cutscenes = Skip whole story

@waters228_91

2y↑438

It's been proven that MC Eiht is actually cool with Rockstar and no disputes. So the more possible reason is that MC Eiht was likely just simply more busy with music during the game's production and didn't have time to record further dialogue. So the developers just improvised Ryder's betrayal without thinking it through.

Also, keep in mind that Ryder ditching CJ in Home Invasion is just a mission failure, which aren't canon to the actual storyline. By that logic, Sweet would be considered a coward for rolling with Big Smoke and Ryder if the player fails the Drive-by mission, or the characters you kill in missions really are dead.

It's why I made a rewrite showing how keeping him loyal can work.

@FlowdeepTDKM

2y↑15

You mean McEiht? xD

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑43

Yes, Mc Eiht being busy could also be one of the factors 🙂 Now about "Home Invasion", we do know that this alternative can be achieved only when the condition is met, that is mission failure. Nevertheless we thought that it would be cool to mention it as a curiosity and an example of how Ryder could turn back on CJ. But yeah, this alternative is not canon whatsoever. 😉

@xxthepinoygamer2721

2y↑1

Looks like,ive been seeing misinformation

@FirebirdFreak87

2y↑3

Wait, this is new.

Edit: Source in vid. My bad. I'm glad someone reached out to him so we can have the answer.

@arneshpal7702

2 More Replies...

@smol_dude656

2y↑95

The "can't stop me" line during Pier 69 was a cover up for a deleted piece of dialogue belonging to.. T-BONE. Initially it was T-bone who we had to chase, not Ryder. Also, an important thing is mentioned in the introduction of the game when Big Smoke talks about "putting a gun to a brother's head", which could imply that Lance was forced to help the Syndicate

@CREOLEHEAT

2y↑15

Smoke was talking about himself. He tried talking Tenpenny & Pulaski outta killing Sweet. What else would make him finally cave in

@nickrustyson8124

1y↑2

Which makes since given those lines sound very, getting shot and dying like

@LScentral

2y↑192

I think his addiction to pcp plays a lot into his character especially since they took a lot of inspiration from the movie South Central. I think his character was post to betray the grove originally but rockstar either didn’t know where they wanted the character to end up or just were messy with his story. Ryder is someone who’s down for anything ready to kill so makes sense for him to have his own well being first as well as smoking Ballas despite working with them.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑17

Well, as far as The Green Sabre is concerned, we are sure that Ryder wasn't meant to become the traitor, at least in our opinion. But as you said, Rockstar North probably wasn't sure how to continue Ryder's story when Loco Syndicate thread came to their mind. And well the point that they were messy with the story is well presented here, they didn't think this through. They decided to slowly introduce the whole new concept instead of making changes earlier in the story. As a result we can clearly see how many mistakes they made. We think that they should have kill Ryder under Mulholland Intersection instead of forcibly making him the traitor. Thanks for the comment and good luck with your videos 😉

@kickdoor700

i mean yeah but just look at the game past the underpass shootout, i think rockstar ran outta money so he became an expendable asset

@kiappo142

2y↑268

I’d rather see Ryder die in a cutscene where he is involved against smoke or the ballad then to see him betray us in a goofy way like this. They really messed up with such a good character

@justchill1617

2y↑14

Well thats rockstar i guess, having feud with the voice actor would have them feud with their respective game character as well such as avery, tommy, ryder 😔

@aleksandar8225

2y↑2

@Just Chill Nico bellic

@appratows6795

2y↑4

@Aleksandar niko's va are not rlly in dispute with r*, even tho he got paid only a 100 grand for 16 months of va and mocap. The thing is he said that be sure what u signing up for. Cuz he signed a 100k pay contract without knowing how long he would work. He cool with r

@Carl_Johnson.

2y↑2

@Just Chill There was no damn feud smh know before you speak

@justchill1617

2y↑4

@Carl Johnson well thats what they want you to think, of course they are making themselves clean, if you look closely you know there is a little bit of misunderstanding between the two especially when the in game character gets treated like that. So just to return it to you “understand before you speak”

1 More Replies...

@muvdafukupouttahere

2y↑457

Not even Sweet acknowledges Ryder's absence and doesn't even know that Ryder betrayed him since CJ never mentions Ryder to him. It was as if they never even knew a person named Ryder.

@rayvenkman2087

2y↑37

Headcanon: The betrayal and death of Ryder is so painful to CJ that he essentially lied to Sweet about what happened to him off-screen, saying the Ballas or C.R.A.S.H got to him.

It’s the only way that’d even justify the lack of a mention for Ryder.

@someuser4166

2y↑33

He never said "big smoke remember that name!" like big smoke so they forgot

@PremierAutoMan86

2y↑23

It's clear Ryder was never meant to be a traitor. There was a financial dispute between MC Eiht (his voice actor) and Rockstar and he left during production. Notice he has little dialogue after the green sabre and is relegated to a minor character in the 2nd half of the game despite playing a large role early in the game.

@Fatty8Claws

2y↑39

It is pretty amazing how you can put out such high quality videos as often as you do.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑1

Thanks a lot! 😊

@nickeloden891

2y↑34

It's a shame that Ryder's entire character never got fully explored. He just felt like a character unceremoniously thrown in the trash by the 2nd act.

@nickrustyson8124

All for what, Zero's Missions, Driving School, Boating School? This game has so much bloat it's actually annoying

@thebest-lp8sj

44w↑2

@@nickrustyson8124 you realize that all of that is optional right

@MatezAul

29w

@@thebest-lp8sj Imo @nickrustyson8124 meant that within the time constrains they had for the game development, they chose to add extra optional content instead of using that time to properly develop Ryder's story, which should have been a priority.

@thebest-lp8sj

29w

Well ryder is not the only aspect that feels uncompleted in the game, there are missions that pop out of nowhere and dialogues that make no sense@@MatezAul

@IAMNOTRANA

2y↑23

In my head cannon, Ryder didn't betray his gang. He was always lured by Smoke to join his side, but he didn't want to be part of it. He even kept a secret from Sweet about Smoke, maybe he had some hope that Smoke will return back to the family? He only went to the Big Smoke side after CJ came back and the jealousy went over his head. He is not a traitor to the gang, he is a traitor to CJ's friendship, which is pretty sad and actually fit the storyline.

@yelhsanosnhoj6602

1y↑3

Ryder’s death was too soon and very anti climatic. I always had a feeling Smoke was the traitor from the start just from the way he used to always talk in circles but Ryder came out of nowhere and it felt too early in the game for how important a character he is. Not to mention he seemed to be the kind to go out more in a gun fight than a motor boat. Smoke seemed more like the type to try and run away on a boat….

@duyhientran8362

2y↑52

The reason why Ryder betrayed the Groove is simple, he shared the same opinion with Big Smoke but not with Sweet. But while Big Smoke acted strangely in the beginning, Ryder was mostly a silent viper. He rarely showed sign of betrayal, this explain why in the original version of the mission "Photo Opportunity", CJ was much much more surprise when he see Ryder in the deal. My theory is that CJ probably forgot about Ryder or though that Ryder is probably dead when Big Smoke and the Ballas took over (remember that in the "Green Sabre" mission, CJ NEVER mentioned Ryder for once, so I think that Ryder wasn't suppose to appear in that mission, rather the Photo Opportunity one).

@gandalfthegrey8236

Simply dumb

@ReventonSpeed

2y↑22

When I think about it, nobody was more harsh on CJ than Sweet was. While he did take jabs at him periodically, he was the next one after Smoke to really welcome CJ back. In contrast, there was damn near nothing CJ could do to make Sweet happy. It was like nothing was ever good enough. CJ would follow Sweet’s orders, only to then get his face shoved in the metaphorical dog shit. If you think about it, CJ and Sweet’s relationship was rather toxic. Most of the time it was characterized by CJ just trying to win Sweet’s acceptance back, a literal slave to Sweet’s approval. Ryder on the other hand just doesn’t have this same level of toxicity that Sweet did. This has always lead me to the belief that Ryder was never meant to turn on CJ in the first place, but rather his betrayal was a completely manufactured one, and might I add it was a very sloppily done one too.

@orangehuskywolfdeanseven

2y↑3

I totally agree with that, he never seem to appreciate or thanks CJ for bringing hood back together. Sweet always seem to put CJ down all the time, he mostly blame hi for everything what went down.

Even with Sweet got release out of the prison, he still treated CJ like trash as Sweet thinks that all the thing CJ did. Was all for CJ benefit and not for the hood.

Sweet is really a ball breaker.

@osamabinladen57

1y↑1

It’s obvious Ryder was forced into it, if not that then it’s probably because rockstar had to change up like half of the GTA Sa’ story because Aaron Tyler, better known as Mc Eiht had his mind on other things besides rockstar.

@Xegethra

2y↑62

Yeah the whole traitor angle seemed haphazard and rushed. All the riffing he does to CJ doesn't mean anything, friends rag on each other all time, even have disagreements, doesn't make them enemies.

I'd like a re rewrite of the story that reverts him back to never being a traitor....won't get it but I'd like it.

@BlackLotusVisualArchive

Someone could do it in DYOM

@adorenu1338

@Black Lotus there is a mod for that

@nickrustyson8124

1y↑2

I kinda want to write a fanfic that's a rewrite of the game's wholestory, mainly because I have a lot of problems with it, Ryder's Betray, Photo Opportunity, Zero's Missions, now that I think of it, I just don't like the San Fierro part of the game

@karabancha

2y↑79

I personally believe that Ryder was always meant to betray CJ, but missions that explained Ryder's motives behind why did he do that were were cut because of size limitations of PS2.
Also, I think that personal relationships with Rockstar and Ryder's VA were pretty good because he made a track specifically for GTA 5 (Welcome to Los Santos)

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑12

Well, at least we tried to convince you 😃

@Replicatte

2y↑6

@Gaming Investigators (Hubson Games) Let's not forget that on The Introduction where Big Smoke persuaded Ryder into joining him and Ryder accepts the offer. Its actually hard to pinpoint if Ryder was ever meant to betray the Grove Family or not. On the one hand, I can definitely see why we as fans don't want to see our Meme Lord die in a underwhelming way, but I can't ignore on how he could be one of the traitors to save his own skin. This may be a mystery that can't be solved.

@Zehahahahahahahahahahahaha

Ryder was always meant to betray CJ? You lack common sense homie 🤣

@karabancha

@Zehahaha Well it was a theory until GSG leaked San Andreas source code. I didn't see new videos about Ryder's betrayal after the definitive edition's release (with new info), so this video is kinda true now?

@markasscop

2y↑4

there is this interesting line in one of the later missions with Ryder where CJ says something along the lines of "you're going to regret messing with me", which feels like it's foreshadowing CJ eventually killing Ryder
really curious to know the intention behind this line if Ryder wasn't originally going to betray us, or maybe it was added in later, who knows

@khat3601

2y↑308

Honestly, Ryder was done dirty in both GTA SA and IRL (his VA to be specific). I wish that there were some missions where Ryder helps you in taking down The Loco Syndicate or aiding CJ's growth. I also might get some flack for this but hear me out, I want Ryder to be dead (an honorable one of course) Like he gets shot badly in the last mission, makes one last sacrifice to save CJ, and have a bit of a cut scene of his funeral. In my opinion, I wish we get to see Ryder help CJ during the San Fierro missions.

@laur6405

2y↑39

I agree.Instead of making that crappy Pier 69 mission they could have used him as your ally during The Green Sabre and just have him die in a fight with the ballas or make the police take him down when they arrive.Not to mention he didn't even get to have a dialogue with CJ before his death like Smoke had.Even Jizzy had a cutscene and he was not as important

@khat3601

2y↑20

@Laur If GTA SA ever gets remade (Which I doubt cause we don't even know when the hell GTA 6 will come out) it'd be a tearful moment if Ryder ever dies.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑25

And that really sucks! Who knows how far the developers could go with Ryder in the storyline if this turn of events didn't happen. As many other people mentioned, if they really wanted to end up Ryder in Los Santos, he should have died in the battle under Mulholland Intersection..

@ameEeeee3

2y↑1

What he did irl?

@nathanmarshall745

2y↑10

The VA did come back for gta v on the lab radio station and sings welcome to los santos, he even calls the station in game to request it, so we at least know he didn't leave on bad terms

3 More Replies...

@mybirthwasamistake

2y↑2

Another thing that worth mentioning that Ryder always obey Sweet's order and policy and also Groove st law and rules. He never arguing with Sweet during the game. Unlike Smoke, Smoke is the only one who pushing the usage and the trade of heavy drug, often confronting Sweet about his anti-drug "policy" and even in certain cutscene He often questioning Sweet's leadership within the Groove st.

@rickydo6572

2y↑8

Man, how did they manage to put so many awesome characters into one game?

Just Ryder and Big Smoke alone places this game so far ahead of most games, and they're not even the only iconic characters in the game.

@yuishishido8780

2y↑4

So, a bit of background information. It was never intended for Ryder to be a traitor. However due to events outside the game, the voice actor for Ryder was no longer able/willing to continue. As such they had to find a way to remove him without the needing to record new dialogue.

@howardmctroy3303

2y↑6

The conversation CJ and Cesar have at the beginning of Yay Ka-Boom-Boom is the only time anyone talks about Ryder at length in the post-Los Santos Missions. Apart from that, his entire arc is just riding the coattails of Smoke's betrayal.

@jaysteele6356

2y↑39

In the first mission of the game, when they leave the graveyard the Ballas only shoot at C.J. and Sweet and not Big Smoke and Ryder. It really makes me wonder how did they get the drop on them at the graveyard? 🤔

@NixonsHead

"Oh MUTHAFUCKA my CAR!"

@cxssetteman182

2y↑20

I just see Ryder as a harmless Rebel. He had always been the one who was most affected by CJ just leaving for years. You could say Sweet was too, but he was pre-occupied with providing for his siblings and mother. Smoke had always been the "Wise" one of the group. Ryder was the only one who was hostile, yet empathetic to CJ when he returned. Most of the earliest missions are with him. I just feel like, by the end, he just had enough and gave up, or was probably threatened by Smoke and CRASH.
He just knew CJ wouldn't believe him even if he tried, so he just became the villain because he knew CJ would get him anyway.

Same reason why OG LOC never Rats out CJ in front of Madd Dog. He wouldn't have believed him.
He was my favourite character. Although I did like Smoke a bit more when was younger.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑1

The question is.. are you thinking about the early pre-Loco Syndicate concept of Ryder or the final one 😃 It's all about the perspective my man 😉 We believe that Ryder never betrayed GSF, perhaps he should have died during "The Green Sabre" mission or lived in hiding until CJ will come back to LS 🙂

@cursedhawkins1305

2y↑15

A detail overlooked is the very clip in one of the introduction cutscenes, Big Smoke is speaking to Ryder in some kind of commanding tone and this tone comes up again when Ryder was going on about the Green Sabre "yeah but people like to TALK don't they" as if he's subtly telling Ryder to shut up or your dead.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑1

Well yes, but in the end we decided to exclude The Introduction really as it was created very late in development when the new concept of Ryder being traitor evolved, thus it wouldn't be objective to the primal design of Ryder's story 🙂

@cursedhawkins1305

2y↑2

@Gaming Investigators (Hubson Games) I think it's a detail that's worth bring up, Big Smoke was never going to be able to kill Sweet himself because he did have the Grove in his heart, the comment he makes of "having a gun put to someone's head wither a fool or wise" will always make them do things they normally wouldn't ever consider doing, something akin to blackmail which is what happens with CJ, Tenpenny was blackmailing Big Smoke to kill Sweet something Big Smoke himself could never bring himself to do at least not in a public fashion, having a rival gang try to do the assassination for him would be something that would save his neck and also satisfy whatever it was Tenpenny was blackmailing Smoke with. Big Smoke basically brought the topic up with Ryder and by doing so ended up dragging him into whatever it was Tenpenny was doing with Big Smoke, which is something Tenpenny probably didn't like if we take his character at face value.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑2

@Cursed Hawkins We agree that this is a really valid point! However, we don't think it's useful to us because we were concentrated on early vision of Ryder's role in this game, not the one that is presented in the final product 🙂 But thanks for pointing this out nevertheless 😉

@edgarruiz7094

2y↑13

Big Smoke killing Ryder before or during the mission The Green Sabre would’ve made more sense than to just throw him into the plot as Big Smoke’s accomplice

@firered33

48w↑2

It's so sad to see Ryder get treated this way. I thought he was the most fun character in the Grove Street OGs, and he didn't deserve to get sidelined like this.

@timzarathustrahanes3232

1y↑2

My take on it is that CJ and Ryder were never close to the extent that CJ and Smoke were. Ryder would rather CJ had never come back, but Smoke is obviously genuinely happy to see him again, despite the betrayal. Keep in mind that Smoke is betraying Sweet mainly, and only because CRASH is making him... CJ is just collateral damage.

@nolimitkhris9598

2y↑79

I think the line Ryder says on the pier “Can’t stop me” sounded like that because maybe they were trying to indicate that he was under the use of drugs because after all crack was what really made Grove St and the whole Los Santos fall apart so MAYBE Ryder was just in it for the drugs also CJ clearly calls him a sherm head which is another way of saying crack head so who knows but I definitely think that’s an excuse to find a way to kill off Ryder because it was such a last minute decision like his death didn’t even have a cutscene or nothing, just an explosion and mission passed but I think Ryder shoulda stayed alive he was the coolest nigga there

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑6

Hmm, that could be the reason of modified line, like a side effect of "water" abuse 🤔 However, when it comes to Ryder getting into the deal with CRASH for the sake of drugs, this sounds rather trivial. What we mean is even if he did enjoy drugs as much as we assume, would he really want to work with Ballas? A gang he hates ever since? Now about CJ's lines towards Ryder after The Green Sabre thread ends, well as we said developers could tell CJ's voice actor anything they want him to say, regardless of what he thinks or what they want. But yeah, as you said, it's clear that this whole mess with Ryder's character wasn't done on purpose, it's a huge act of desperation and bad way to end a good character..

@calcium5063

A sherm head is a pcp addict not a crackhead. Crackheads are known as base heads

@e195087

2y↑1

I've seen somewhere that his voice is like that because he was in the place of T-Bone in that scene, where he is injured and walking to the fence while saying his final lines. Meanwhile, T-Bone is the one escaping in the boat, but this was apparently only in the beta.

@michaelwilson9184

Bro its not cracked its pcp

@pa.encema2821

The aftermath with all those cops were the worse

@ChampagneGars

2y↑7

Ryder was as genuinely hurt as Sweet when CJ left, while Smoke was the only one who was alarmingly nice and all

@paulgeorge7639

2y↑14

Ryder only did all of that because Grove Street when CJ was gone is already losing control in Los Santos. Ballas is the most powerful gang who has the control before the start of the missions. Thats why Ryder and Big Smoke maybe tried to negotiate with Ballas to save the small part left for Grove Street.

@UndyingZombie

2y↑8

When I first played GTA SA.. I thought that Ryder betraying was a bit off. That it did not quite fit.. But I shrugged that off. Upset that he would betray his friends like he ultimately did. Loyalty means a lot to me, both when it comes to family as well as friends. It was another reason why I never looked at Vance's character from GTA VC the same after that point in the game. Both GTA VC and GTA SA still remain as my all time fav GTA games. Granted I have oddly not played much of GTA 5. I have it.. Just for some reason I keep putting it off.. I did some missions but other things distracted me I guess. Its currently the only GTA game I have not played to 100%.

@derekgardner6601

2y↑51

You know, looking back, of all the characters in the entire game, Ryder is the most difficult character to analyze. Talk about unpredictable.

@plasticsaint

2y↑1

that's PCP for ya lmao

@wasabi5338

1y↑1

he's a mofucking genius

@Mrmhibbert

2y↑3

I don't think he becomes a traitor until later when he sees CJ overtake him in the pecking order.
So he sticks closer with Smoke because he's trying to get Grove Street back on top with the ballers and Tenpenny

@erikurizita6702

2y↑11

Ryder is a common tale in real life. someone who just happened to witness the wrong thing at the wrong time, and in hopes of just keeping everything status quo, they just keep trying to move on. it rarely works, but it's so common.

@rahmanhakim944

2y↑3

One believe is that Ryder found out what smoke is doing and is pressed by smoke to keep quiet, and the reason why Ryder is friendly but act harshly towards CJ is because he tries to push CJ away from grove so as not to be used by smoke and crash while not making it obvious to smoke what he's doing.
In the mission drive-thru, Ryder can be heard dropping hints and clues about the green sabre while smoke is trying hard to disprove it while in a way, intimidates Ryder so he knew his place.

@phutran2429

2y↑21

When I first play San Andreas and do mission with Ryder, I was like “this is a cool guy”, but since the game start to show that he’s a traitor, and then force me to kill him, my will of finishing the game story goes down drastically.

@shlomogoat1267

This is so true, the story was good written until that moment like why he died in such a stupid way

@Randomturtle001

2y↑15

I think Ryder calling CJ a buster was him projecting as he would run away in intense situations. Then over time through the story would become on the level of CJ. If the rumour I heard that SA was supposed to have 3 playable characters originally, it would make sense for them to be CJ, Caesar and Ryder. Where once past the initial few missions would all have their own missions to do.

@Sabbie14

2y↑7

This actually makes sense because Ryder's missions were important to grove street

@advang4820

2y↑1

I remember people talked about this long ago, with only in-game story dialogues as proofs, and it's definitely made sense that Ryder never meant to be a bad guy.

@harshkumarnonia6614

2y↑3

Wow !!
Literally Amazed by the extent of research made...
You deserve more subscribers Man !
Love from India 🇮🇳❤️.

@missvalerie4040

2y↑86

I still think Ryder would’ve been a great protagonist. There were problems with MC Eiht. I don’t know how far Rockstar was, when MC Eiht left, he could’ve been replaced.

@Carl_Johnson.

There weren't problems with the VA, That's just speculation not facts

@deshawnanderson7777

2y↑7

He didnt leave didnt u see the video rockstar told mc eiht they were done with him that he was good to go

@Underground187

2y↑2

He didint have problems with them, he worked on album and had to do concerts. He even thanked Rockstar for the opportunity they gave him in some interview a few years ago!

@dr.finnegan3949

30w

Either did Smoke. It is clear in the game cutscenes and later in the introduction movie that Big S tried everything to convince Sweet to join the dope business. Actually there’s a scene in the introduction where Tenpenny answers the phone and says: “you took my money, Boy, there’s no turning back, do what you’ve been told to do”
The plan was not betray GS or Sweet but take them back into the top of the game.

@o..o5480

2y↑8

When Ryder didn't get back with backup, he mentioned calling Smoke. Smoke was probably in on the attack so he decided to stall Ryder to increase their chances of winning.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑2

This might explain why Ryder didn't come back 😦

@99mrpogi

1y↑1

Like smoke is probably pressuring or threatening Ryder into joining the ballas...

@NixonsHead

1y↑1

@kirk jason beltran Like suge knight(big smoke) threatened eazy e(ryder) in real life.

@Kacpa2

1y↑3

I think he was meant to die in Green Sabre shootout under the freeway. But then they changed their mind so Smoke has some recognizeable right hand character.

@bullymaguire6773

1y↑1

One of my favorite GTA characters. It's just unfortunate that the voice actor had to quit so they had to revise his story.

@ws6032

2y↑69

"water" is a reference to PCP or Sherm. It was commonly smoked by gang members in the 1980's and 1990's to put in work. Crip founder Tookie Williams was a notorious Sherm head which is what caused him to kill random people during a robbery of a motel.

@MrAfusensi

2y↑18

Yes, comparing it to just smoking joints like the video did is wrong.

@AK-sx4zp

2y↑2

@MrAfusensi woah, I thought it would be like an enriched joint/blunt. Not a whole trip like you say

@plasticsaint

2y↑4

@AK 69 it's a dissociative, it basically makes you see the world from outside of your own body

@BrownPatriot316

7:39 he literally has the definition of “water” in the video

@ippw1988

2y↑2

Unlike Big Smoke, Ryder didn't even fire a single round at CJ, not even in the boat chase where CJ hunted him down. Ryder only attacked CJ verbally by calling him "buster", "liability" etc.

@TDWFNetwork

2y↑4

He was always meant to betray the Grove it just wasn't supposed to happen until Photo Opportunity. If you listen to the voice lines CJ is surprised to see Ryder there, and also the beta mission of Pier 69 you kill Ryder first. Unused and beta stuff kind of helps explain stuff better.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑2

Actually, you're not far from the truth right there 🙂 Recently we managed to analyze how these missions were supposed to look in the beta version and we came to interesting conclusions. We will talk more about it in one of the future episodes.

@RebelGaming4U

1y↑1

Yeah the mission was supposed to be in a helicopter and you photograph from the chopper. That's why they sounded like they were yelling.

@editedrectangle1385

2y↑3

Both big smoke and ryder are like the icons of san andreas after CJ
I really hoped they didn't betray CJ for just some cash and power
But oh well,san andreas has a nostalgic feel to it that never gets old
Flying a plane or going on road trip in Las venturas during the orange evening atmosphere,driving along the state in that highway that connects all the 3 islands
Just good memories

@reinholdamanpal4735

2y↑12

Hopefully there will be a bunch of people to put up a stories version of GTA SA or to make another one where Ryder is actually the original one where he ain't forced to 'betray' , like yeah it may take some time because most of the missions in SF had him mentioned, like the Pier 69 or Photo Opportunity- but man, i would imagine some funny things with Ryder breaking through Area 69 for the jetpack, or maybe the casinos, or even the final missions

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑1

This is a great advantage of modifications 🙂 Thanks to them we as players can make our assumption dreams come true, we can let our imagination go as far as we want. Unfortunately recently Rockstar stopped being too kind to the community when it comes to moding..

@NixonsHead

GTA San Andreas made into a single season series. Nice dream but knowing hollywood today they would find a way to make it trash.

@arreeseking6427

2y↑8

The reason why Ryder showed betrayal later in the storyline is because, his Actor left off at that point

@hishamhilal8332

2y↑31

Its a shame that because of incomplete writing and voice actor disputes that rockstar had to tarnish the reputation of this otherwise decent character

@Underground187

2y↑1

There were no disputes between them and Mc eiht

@Zaleoritov

2y↑50

C.R.A.S.H. even talks with Sweet, in the mission "Doberman" when you first receive Sweet's phone call and you are handed the mission he mentions that C.R.A.S.H. told him about the Grove Street member who apparently switched sides to the Ballas(if i remember correctly)
So by that logic Sweet also be a traitor, since Tenpenny directly spoke with him

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑10

Pardon us, but we don't really understand what you mean here :/ CRASH had a chance to talk with every OG of GSF: Sweet, Ryder, Big Smoke (2x) and us (CJ). Now in the "Doberman" mission Sweet doesn't really point out that he received this information from CRASH specifically. Well, the thing with "Doberman" is much more complicated because there were like at least 3 different versions of it throughout development. All in all, we know that Tenpenny came by to Sweet thanks to "Los Sepulcros" quest, but would this really indicate Sweet being traitor? Especially considering that he's anti-drug guy and so on? Please explain this to us further 🙂

@DigaRW

2y↑5

@Gaming Investigators (Hubson Games) He might mean it's counter argument with what you describe Ryder relation with CRASH could mean betrayal. If it was like that, then Sweet also should considered a traitor because he spoke with CRASH. So with CJ that often work under their control.

What I'm thinking about CRASH relation with Grove Street gang is actually just because CRASH trying to control gang crime by balancing each other while taking benefit from it. It's worth mentioning that Tenpenny gave a mission to CJ to infiltrate Ballas gang dealing arms exchange with Russian because it's dangerous if it let them out of CRASH control. Ballas might be gone rogue and ruined Tenpenny plan. So in scenario in Catalyst, CRASH just give a tip to Ryder because they knew Grove Street need weapons.

@jmajlesnaber3041

2y↑5

Imagine if ryder didn't betray cj, he will be cooking water at the garage in sf and annoying the whole crew because of the strong smell

@namesurname5613

2y↑26

Honestly, rockstar could just kill ryder during the mission green sabre when there is shootout on intersection, this could make us as player to be more angry on big smoke

@cathallynch8269

1y↑1

It seems like they were so focused on making Big Smoke the bad guy that they forgot what to do with Ryder, but then again it makes sense for him to be a throwaway since he was portrayed as an idiot in the mission where you rob a fast food joint again.

@coreycasciano3255

2y↑2

Sucks Ryder had to die, he was such a great character, you can tell he really had love for his gang and CJ

@PLNKYELLOWBLACK

2y↑1

I always felt that Ryder didn’t betray us but he was so doped up off pcp he lost track of things and snapped. Shit happens and I never blamed Ryder, just wished I could’ve had a different option instead of killing him.

Also I’ve never heard someone call MC Eiht “mick 8” like “McDonald’s” before haha

@fives.

2y↑4

Yeah, Pier 69 was unfinished inherently. The fact that you can just snipe the shit out of Ryder swimming before he hits the speedboat indicates the R* North intervention on the finished character

@Schmidddy

2y↑3

Ryder isn't smoking weed, he's smoking wet / sherm / dip. This is mentioned many times in the early missions. Wet / sherm / dip is when you dip your cigarettes / joints / blunts in liquid PCP and smoke it. He's even cooking some in the opening cutscene of Catalyst. It literally makes you go crazy and lose touch with reality. It's absolutely an important factor in Ryder's downfall and does directly hint at his warped mindset that leads to his betrayal.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑1

If you're saying that Ryder using PCP hints at his betrayal then why did he decide to help GSF with weapons? Furthermore, if using water/sherm/wet causes such destructive effects on the person, how does Ryder still speak like he's not crazy at all? The guy smokes this stuff every time we see him, but still manages to take part in a few drive-by's and even risk his own life. Please explain this to us further 🙂

@Schmidddy

@Gaming Investigators (Hubson Games) Simple, to keep up appearances for Crash and Tenpenny and fuel his own delusional sense of pride being exaggerated by the wet. It couldn't be obvious who was betraying the gang, especially with CJ back in the picture. Ryder's speech is incredibly unhinged throughout the entire game. He's an arrogant jealous asshole with a god complex which is only amplified by smoking the wet. He's become entirely delusional, seriously thinking that no one can stop him, that he's a super genius who can steal from the national guard without issue (Robbing Uncle Sam opening), and that he deserves the top spot on GSF, not Sweet nor CJ. As you play Ryder's missions, they get progressively more unhinged and delusional and fail even more spectacularly every time due to Ryder's ever slipping grasp on reality, hinting at his mental spiral. You go from wanting to rob and murder a pizza guy over covering a tag (already something a delusional wet head would overreact to accordingly) and having that fail miserably because Ryder can't keep his shit together, to literally running for your life from the National Guard because you forklifted a small island nation's worth of arms out of their base in broad daylight while he shot the place up. How the hell was that going to work smoothly? In Ryder's mind, it was going to work without a hitch, because the wet said it would and so did Tenpenny. Ryder is insane. His ideas become increasingly insane and he becomes increasingly confident in that insanity, increasingly paranoid about CJ and Sweet, and jealous of CJs success in these missions clearly designed to be Ryder's big hits, hits that he straight up would have blundered without CJ's help. He hates it. He wants to be the big dog. He always wanted to be the big dog. He just didn't have the motivation / level of insanity necessary to betray them until the wet got involved. His selfish delusional stars-in-his-eyes nature became increasingly unhinged as Tenpenny sunk his claws into him. Not only could Tenpenny and Crash come down on GSF whenever they wanted, if Ryder didn't play ball, his drugs would stop flowing, and more importantly, Crash would stop looking the other way for him. Sure, he was being forced into it, but the wet made him not really mind that at all. Its incredibly addictive. Incredibly mind altering. Allow me to tell you an anecdote about The Rooster. There was this old head in my neighborhood who liked to dip his blunts in wet. One day, we heard loud ass rooster noises coming from the block. Old head was on the roof of his porch, butt ass naked, smoking his wet, and screaming like a rooster at 9am. He didn't know who he was and never fully recovered. Wet is wild and is the sole reason Tenpenny was able to manipulate and use Ryder, and it's the reason Ryder didn't care in the end.

@andrewscotti1136

2y↑14

Ryder was my favorite character in the game. Always got Eazy vibes from him for some reason. Sucks Rockstar killed him off like that. i heard a rumor not too long ago it was due to a dispute with the voice actor and it makes sense.

@cislife7140

2y↑1

That is supposed to be eazy well in his likeness

@CREOLEHEAT

2y↑1

For some reason? He's literally modeled after Eazy. Tf?

@RyomaHoshi22

2y↑4

Kinda sad that Ryder died he seemed like a chill dude

@Dziugasc

2y↑32

I actually love ryder, he is such loyal grove street member good character and they just cut him like that.

@duffydreamer

2y↑2

I honestly thought that was bull** that suddenly they let him betray us like that.

@grumpy_dingus4374

2y↑1

Actually this makes sense because ryder always seemed to be weak minded, and it would make a whole lot of sense if big smoke actually persuaded him into turning on groves st families

@senormarston3283

2y↑6

It's a shame Rider ended up as a traitor because of feuds between Rockstar and the voice actor that played him. I think he was the Grove Street member that I liked the most when I played GTA SA

@Carl_Johnson.

2y↑1

There was no feud, That's just a rumor lmfao

@senormarston3283

@Carl Johnson the man himself said it

@Carl_Johnson.

@Señor Marstón Source?

@senormarston3283

@Carl Johnson lmfao no, you, Carl Johnson, CJ, the man himself said there was no feud so why would we contradict

@Carl_Johnson.

@Señor Marstón Translation: I have no source

@boris4242

2y↑1

I think the scenes you mentioned at the end were because rockstar edited them so they can make ryder a traitor or you can just say it was because of drugs that made smoke get ryder on his side its also worth saying how we got a real cutscene with smoke but nothing after killing ryder

@DovydasRybakas

1y↑1

After mission the Green Sabre, Ryder's interactions after that kind of doesn't make sense. He is seen twice after, one time in Angel Pine and other time in Pier 69. Now I am aware that developers somehow mixed up orders on deaths with T-Bone and Ryder, where it was meant to be Ryder dying first and then T-Bone, but it's the other way around. When Ryder is then seen running towards the water, he talks but is hardly able to speak and that did not make any sense to me, when you chase after him and CJ pretty much calls him out on his shit, his responses also make no sense.

What would've made sense if Rockstar made Ryder's death early in the game, trying to call Smoke out on his betrayal and ends up dead. This would've been the first death of a confidant in GTA 3D Universe which would've added a nice spice to the storyline.

@janjamesdegracia5190

2y↑3

I always thought of Ryder's scripts in this game are fishy because in the middle part of the story, his dialogues doesnt make sense especially to the part where he dies. As my point of view, Ryder is always trying to make something the Grove street family to be united and strong without CJ and helping the grove stay intact even if Sweet is arrested or die (either way Sweet is always I think not directly planning ahead for the future of grove street because he didnt find a way to capitalize his gang or something).

Sorry for my bed england

@WorldWalker128

2y↑11

It's hard for me NOT to take their railing on him personally. My name IS CJ. My parents found that hysterical and my brother frequently reminds me that 'all I needed to do was follow the dang train!'.

@shadycipher2923

2y↑4

Ryder became an enemy because MC Eiht(voice actor of Ryder) and Rockstar had a conflict

@fink94

2y↑5

It’s a shame what happened to Ryder. I loved that character

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑1

Yeah, it is a pity that the fate was shown just like that 😕

@marksantiago9841

Ryder’s betrayal had no build up. It was pretty obvious that the plot was introduced very very late in the development process. It is quite obvious near the end of the game that ryder was never mentioned again. There’s No way you forget your friend since childhood.

@DefNotMyBurner

2y↑1

There was a long video on this topic and it showed that Ryder betraying CJ was kinda shoehorned in there. All of his missions were about HELPING the GSF while all of Smokes missions helped himself. The Drive Thru mission was meant to get all of them out of the way quickly, which is why we get the iconic line of Big Smoke ordering 50,000 things. He was buying time for the Ballas. Also he was the only one to move out of Grove Street while Ryder still stayed there.

There is also never any dialogue of Ryder saying he wanted to betray CJ. When he gets killed, there’s no cutscene, no specific dialogue, just Ryder calling CJ a buster, which he always did.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑1

That's right! There are a lot of reasons proving that Ryder wasn't meant to betray us during the Los Santos storyline 🙂 By the way, if you're interested in the whole Green Sabre event, we recommend watching our video about it 👍 ->https://youtu.be/-G8_9Z1Eeq0

@bigguy2128

2y↑1

MC Eiht (Ryders voice) said that the lines in the game were all the lines he had ever gotten. A lot of people speculated that he was asked to leave before finishing his lines.

@SuperSalah116

2y↑17

Fun Fact: Ryder wasn't meant to be a traitor in the game script

@CloudyCloud26

47w

Says who lol

@minecraftbee5649

2y↑2

I really like to think that Ryder really never meant to betray us, but the only reason he ended up doing it its because of problems with his voice actor.

@halynamalyna9630

1y↑1

It's actually true

@Samuel-ym8wz

2y↑36

You know pcp is a different drug right? Wet/water is another name for it. Also him being called a shermhead. Hes high in a completely different way than just a joint. He was even cooking up stuff in his house and gave some to tenpenny. Not really a sign hes a traitor but that part of your video missed the mark completely.

@plasticsaint

2y↑1

did he edit the video to mention PCP or something?? I keep seeing these comments but he talks about it in the video

@lazygirl5653

2y↑1

@Dogs Lices more that he seems to treat PCP as like something that's not a hard drug and that stuff will completely screw you up

@Samuel-ym8wz

2y↑3

@Dogs Lices sorry for late reply. It sounded like he didnt really know what pcp was and thought it was something like marijuana. When it's a far harder drug and at least on the level of crack if not worse. I think he made a comment that apologized for getting it wrong. That's cool of him to do.

@allu_wis

1y↑1

Another theory is that Rockstar and Ryder's voice actor probably had some issues with eachother just like Tommy's voice actor Ray Liotta. That kind of explains why there was reused voice lines in Pier 69 mission. CJ also never gave Ryder time to explain why he did this like he gave to Smoke.

@steaketc2476

he literally brought that up in the video 😂

@Ser_Salty

I feel like Ryder was supposed to betray CJ/GSF, but be much more reluctant about it, pressured by CRASH and Smoke. His missions read to me like he was trying to prepare the Grove for what was coming. He was even the one to tell CJ about the green sabre, which was quickly cut off by Smoke. Ryder was just supposed to be a coward, which Smoke and Tenpenny took advantage of to get him to do some dirty work for them. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be enough cut content left to figure out what was originally supposed to happen to him. Maybe he was supposed to die in Green Sabre, like somebody suggested in another comment. There is some cut stuff that suggests him and T-Bone were supposed to switch places in Pier 69, though that could've been made at a point where they already changed Ryders storyline.

My personal fan theory is even that he didn't recognize the dealer in Cleaning The Hood at all, he just wanted to get CJs help to clear out the crack den close to Ganton, which he knew about from Smoke or Tenpenny, seizing the opportunity of Sweet sending them out to kill crack dealers. Or alternatively, he only recognized the crack dealer because of Smoke and Tenpenny and then lead CJ to the crack den.

@auri5459

2y↑3

I think he was just unfairly killed off, not sure why did they changed the story at last minute but i am pretty sure Ryder was never meant to betray Grove Street.

@mihaaai7834

2y↑5

Great job guys, keep us up with more content! 👌👌

@lilzez35

2y↑1

What is yo set 🖐🙌👎👍👉👈👌✌🖖🤘👎✊

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑3

Thanks! :)

@RaezorClaw

I think it is as obvious as getting hit in the head with a brick that Ryder was never supposed to be a traitor. I think the biggest part is that everything from The Green Sabre onwards is building towards a confrontation with Smoke and Tenpenny gets second billing. Shame. I wish something else came of Ryder rather than "He tried to pork your sister"

@twankistevenson3884

2y↑8

There's "hazing" your friends and then there's being a complete asshat towards someone. Ryder's attitude towards CJ from the word go is disrepectful and abusive and not in "just messing with you bro" way either. The fact that Smoke chides him about saying too much about the Green Saber and letting the cat out of the bag when all 4 are in the car in a early mission PROVES Ryder was in it up to his neck in the betrayal from the word go, I'm guessing M C Eiht got on board knowing his character was supposed to be a villian but was determined to try and make R* change their mind and change direction with the story and make his character a protagonist rather than an antognist and R* were having none of it

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑1

Hello! Well, we do see your point, bro. We understand that this rude behavior of his might be straight crossing the line. Actually, there will be a video soon which touches on this subject. Now let's talk about this green sabre being mentioned in "Drive-Thru" mission. Yes, it could be surprising that Ryder knows about it and knows who was the target. However, is it really hard to figure this out for yourself? A hit on elderly woman doesn't give any benefits except for a bigger beef between the gangs. We think that it's rather obvious that such set up was planned to get rid of one of the OGs since they are quite important pillars of the whole organization, this move would weaken the gang instantly. And depending on the target, the effects will be higher or lower. In this case, getting rid of Sweet would be crucial to Grove Street Families because he is the leader and Big Smoke was ready to take the lead and get into drug market. And well, the thing about MC Eiht being determined to convince Rockstar North to change the plans sounds a bit ridiculous. The voice actor has nothing to do with the script, he only reads the lines. He might suggest something by himself, but that's about it. They are paid to read the script throughout recording sessions, nothing else. We hope that this reply clarified these issues a bit 🙂

@konuralpyldzkan1495

2y↑1

crash's visit of ryder has nothing to do with his betrayal. crash visited everyone, they visited sweet too before the mission los sepulcros. sweet says, "tenpenny just dropped by" and he was not hostile against tenpenny.

@nuclearmodz9945

2y↑2

Another fact is that Ryder mentioned the Green Sabre but Big Smoke tried to reject the real version and instead he tries to get out with his nonsense

@Kippzy

2y↑5

I loved Ryder so much to the point I hated playing as CJ. His character and voice actor was amazing, charismatic and funny af. I wish they allowed you to play as him.

@youssef-mohamed692

2y↑1

There was a idea to make you play as different character just like in GTA v oh boy if we had this option maybe we could play as Ryder and sweet

@Dnizzle227

2y↑1

@name it was 3 like V but ps2 couldnt handle that...if they would of waited some years to release on xbxo 360 San Andreas would of been even better

@FeminineAroma

Playing the game for the first time, I actually did think that Ryder was a traitor because of his remarks towards CJ. He always came off as a hater, and because of that, that was enough reason for me to believe he was a traitor instead of Big Smoke until the middle of the game.

@N2itionMusic

2y↑3

I feel like Ryder was just trynna save himself. He wasn't really a traitor he was just trynna survive.

@syahrulshiddiq9733

2y↑8

The author should write a book of the true story of GTA San Andreas, when Ryder never betrayed GSF. I think it will definitely sells.

Or better yet, make it into a movie?

@JoseSanchez0795

2y↑3

This channel is great; keep up the good work!

@Dante_S550_Turbo

2y↑3

The Ryder unused audio hints that he was suppose to die for grove street, possibly where Sweet gets injured and put into the hospital.

@gaminginvestigators

2y↑1

You know, we were thinking about adding this theory to our video too, but we've decided to leave it since it might be hard to find something more besides that they seem appropriate to be used in "The Green Sabre" mission :/ Thanks for the comment! 🙂

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