Tommy’s been listening to music since he could barely walk. However, it was… Read Full Bio ↴Tommy’s been listening to music since he could barely walk. However, it was only when he picked up his first guitar in 2004 that his musical journey really began. His music has a distinctive style combining a steady consistent rhythmic style and giving his music a dark and emotionally driven sound. His lyrics deal with issues all of us face; confusion, depression, and heartbreak. Though it’s hard to place his music into any particular genre it contains elements of rock, pop, and folk. His lyrics coupled with his deep and bright vocals combine to create a truly unique sound.
After many life changing events in the past year, he is gearing up to enter the studio to record a new upcoming album set to be released in early 2011.

The Mirror
Tommy Gunn Lyrics

We have lyrics for 'The Mirror' by these artists:

6 FT. UNDERGROUND 立ち止まる度僕を見つめる君は少しぎこちない笑顔でそっと力をくれる今日の涙も笑い飛ばしてほしい二度と戻らない時…
Aaron-Carl Ha ha yeah Calle on the track It's not like I don't…
Andrew Lloyd Webber Little Lotte let her mind wander Remember that too Little …
Andrew Lloyd Webber Gerard Butler & Emmy Rossum Phantom: Insolent boy This slave of fashion Basking in your …
Andrew Lloyd Webber Michael Crawford Sarah Brightman & Steve Barton Little Lotte let her mind wander Remember that too Little …
Anthony Marinelli & J. Peter Robinson Mirror mirror mirror mirror resting on wall Please tell me w…
Argonaut & Wasp Come look at me do you like what you see?…
Aristophanes Reflected in the water are the worries hiding in our…
Back Ted N-Ted I hope this isn’t here to stay Been lookin back at…

Beau The mirror never lies throughout your youth, Though perhaps…
Best & Blues Power I was driving down the coast When I saw your ghost You…
Black Water Rising The Mirror In this world of mass confusion It's hard to mak…
BOKKA in a room it was dark but then the light came I lost…
Bruno Mars & Lil Wayne With everything happening today You don't know whether you'…
Byronic Sex & Exile I lost myself Trying to find you You're somewhere in The woo…
Catalyst You're always staring through the back of my head And you…
Chris Dela Cruz Thought bubbles above my head My songs are all the comic…
Cool Hand Luke I looked into the mirror Didn't know what I would see But…
Craig M Clarke It's all in your head…
d.p. I wrote a song about my confusion I didn't know it…
Damaged Bug Half a conversation's all right Blow a breath and fog the…
Danny Lux Don′t you think it's high Time we took a ride Drove it…
Dark Side Cowboys I have a light that did not shine I have seen…
David Bowie Wash your face before your faded make-up makes a mark The…
David Shire & the London Symphony Orchestra Mother: You don't answer my call With even a nod or a…
Debra Winger We are the mirror as well as the face in…
Degrees.K Oh, magic mirror in my dressing room Will reach the top?…
Double Dagger Oh no, don't let him answer the phone He'll take so…
Dr. Project Point Blank Blues Band At the bottom there's a stir And now surface is a…
Dream Evil Mirror, mirror on the wall I'm on my way to loose…
Dream Theater Temptation, Why won't you leave me alone ? Lurking every cor…
Dying Wish Something has changed The air seems to be vibrating. The e…
E-Sonic & Louis Bailar I be chillin, in my lane and speeding Chevy 2 seater.…
Eclipse It's time to plunge in the world of ... deprivation? …
Embers In Ashes I know you′re full of questions You wonder why I'd leave The…
Emerald Eyes I am the enemy, I am the biggest coward I…
Emmy Rossum & Gerard Butler Phantom: Insolent boy This slave of fashion Basking in your …
Enertia Can you help me Read the pages of my mind…
Figure-Ground In The Mirror 거울속의 내 모습 너를 닮은 나 In…
Gatlin Elms How could she do this, running around the town With a…
Gerard Butler & Emma Rossum Phantom: Insolent boy This slave of fashion Basking in your …
Greg X. Volz Where did the mirror go? Don't know where Where did the mi…
Gypsies I just want to scream and shout babe I just want…
H. P. Luna Turning into my mind The mirror's eye smiles back at me Fed…
H.A.T.E! I be chillin, in my lane and speeding Chevy 2 seater.…
Hardwell Looking in the mirror, staring down my own reflection So man…
Harem Scarem (Hess) Pride besieged Has fallen on the day Now God and me H…
Hoobastank Is it shame? Is it greed? Is it something that I need? To…
ill-esha Dicen que los ojos son espejos del alma Bullshit! Todo lo qu…
In Flames This spectacle, our collapse It's not a false alarm The ashe…
Ixkal Inside the mirror all life has gone No signs of substance…
Ja Rule My life, my love Is it in vain or am I…
Jack Massic Tell me who you are Did you come from another lifetime? I've…
Jackson Taylor & The Sinners Conflicting principals are all I can see I'm not satisfied w…
Jeremy & Progressor Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the greatest of them…
Jill Andrews You broke a mirror, but I will get the bad…
John Frusciante Hit in the face when you open a door Unconsiderate to…
Johnny Booth I, I'll ask to break free from this mirrored edge…
Jonathan Groff & Boys Flip on a switch, and everything's fine No more lips,…
k-os feat. Sam Roberts Dressed up and nowhere to go, I am looking for…
KenZiner Fairytales, all my broken outer shells, All my dreams that f…
Kid Rock I been known to fight the good fight I been known…
Killer When you look in the mirror, what do you see? A…
King Swamp This is the story of an American hero, Born in…
Left Behind Break my body down Pull Me into the ground I'm stuck in…
Linus Van Pelt Hear the dogs bark And the clocks tick The children…
Lords of Acid I look in the mirror and what do I see A…
Lost in Despair Every day you take a look in the mirror Tell me…
Lost to the Void The path to perfection is paved with the self-intent of righ…
Lyncs We were born to bond, intertwined to survive So lets make…
Malhavoc "This song is not an accusation, this is a statement. The…
Memories I was looking through my blinded ways Fear of the days…
Michael Crawford & Sarah Brightman Little Lotte let her mind wander Remember that too Little …
Mike Devo Look 5 AM in the morning Came through high as fuck and…
Morgana Lefay What's beyond the chamber mirror The evening coloured secret…
Naio Ssaion Tonight we sit it’s all so quiet And I don't know…
Nicola Sedda There is something in this sound A message from my heart It'…
Obscure of Acacia Break the mirror that reflects The dark side of your soul Hi…
Original Cast Little Lotte let her mind wander Remember that too Little …
Patrick Salone Street lights under the rain droplets falling at 3:05 and…
Patrick Wilson Emmy Rossum & Gerard Butler Phantom: Insolent boy This slave of fashion Basking in your …
Pearls & Brass One day you`re going to have to face A deep dark…
Phantom of the Opera Cast Little Lotte let her mind wander Remember that too Little …
R.O.M.E. Mirror mirror lie to me Show me what I want to…
R.U.S. Check over, dry grey face Move over, push, displace In tryin…
Radio Skies This was always me Even if you couldn't see I've…
Raul Midon So you think you don't need me anymore They say I'm…
Rebecca Mayes In every game I play, the bodies are the same Conforming…
Russ When you gonna settle down, when you gonna come around To…
Saddest Day Please don't tell me that your beauty isn't real. That your…
Sarah Brightman and Michael Crawford Little Lotte let her mind wander Remember that too Little …
SCUMFUCK Your cold gaze creeps through the void A window to paranoia…
Seduce Another day goes by you wish on a star The city…
Shadowlord She gives nothing but a lifeless stare Into the glass with…
Shrink Me Don't think that I have to sit down To sing to…
Sound Doctrine I put down the mirror and said to myself "Was that…
Spooky Tooth Patto-Jones-Wright I looked into the mirror and it poison…
Sprung Welcome back to the hall of mirrors I've put some arrows…
Stefán S. Stefánsson I keep looking in the mirror Lost and scared at the…
Stel Furet I can't face the mirror And I've wasted all of this…
Steven Walker I can see In this glass My how the days have quickly…
Stream of Passion Maybe your grace is blinding and your eyes can break any…
Suicide Commando Look Into the mirror…
The Carbonfools Dusk was fallin’ she was callin’ dusk were…
The Devil ft. Trauma & Horrific Acts Tears are falling, I'm crawling I'm digging through the mud …
The European Chorus & Orchestra There must be a mirror between us Cos when I look…
The Music Mirror mirror It's me again Been under the weather But for l…
The Nigel Purcell Trio There's a place I always go to It's as far as I…
The Original London Cast Little Lotte let her mind wander Remember that too Little …
The Phantom and Christine In the corner of the mirror I see myself, oh While…
The Phantom of the Opera Canadian Cast Where in the world have you been hiding Really, you were…
The Phantom Of The Opera Film Cast Feat. Emmy Rossum & Gerard Butler Phantom: Insolent boy This slave of fashion Basking in your …
Tiffani Wood It's been twenty four, twenty four long years I've been tryn…
Transparent-C I look up in the mirror and see That my own…
U.S. Royalty I'm sick of staring in the mirror Trying to figure out…
Unprocessed The soul like broken glass Perforated like cold shards Don′t…
Vajra Ockham′s razor slit your tongue Cause your heart's wrapped u…
Valdii Verse1 Lord give me strength To get me through this I'm not …
Valentin Huedo Feat. Bird ไม่อยากคิดถึงเธอเพราะรู้ดี คงไม่มีทางที่เราจะเป็นดังฝัน เบื่…
Vision All of them Choking hard Catching breath Falling down Seeing…
With Honor I've let tomorrow be a good excuse for not changing today …
Ziv Walking down this road I got A lot of questions Knocking on…

We have lyrics for these tracks by Tommy Gunn:

Brolie And I ain't finna lie I been chilling with my…
Fear Verse 1: Sunny southern Cali Where bitches are apart of nig…
For Me Baby girl I want to see that for me Baby girl…
Ice on Freeze Ice on freeze nigga what make you believe I just be…
Islands Yeah I can take you to the islands take you overseas I…
Messiah Mmm yeah All of these niggas be broke they can't even…
Rainin' I’m tryna see you naked on the bed I’m tryna give…
Sacrifice worry bout yourself, from your body language I can tell, nob…

The Finest As the life cycle goes on goes on And you learn…

The lyrics are frequently found in the comments by searching or by filtering for lyric videos

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Comments from YouTube:

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑476

Who is the better student between Tommy Gunn and Adonis Creed?

EDIT: No Creed III spoilers please!

Mason Martin

1y↑60

Definitely adonis

Tommy V

1y↑21

Donnie 💯

Victor Phan

1y↑25

Adonis without a doubt.

Derrick Haggard

1y↑12

Adonis

Shareeq Khodabaks

1y↑12

Creed

57 More Replies...

Michael Mclaren

1y↑1.8K

Could you imagine your wife hears about a bastard child you had with another woman while you were still married. His dad died, his mom died then your wife steps up and fights for and wins custody of your son and raises him as her own. I don't think I've given Mrs creed enough respect and just how much that storyline made my jaw fall on the floor. I think she's an AMAZING woman

Mr ClassicMetal

1y↑78

Salute to miss Huxtable!

Mazzi NYC

1y↑46

She’s a queen🙌🏾💙

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑110

Mary Anne is the GOAT

Carlos Guzman

1y↑122

OMG, I could only imagine, and her line, "I had to wipe your father's ass cause'it he fought so much he couldn't use his hands no more!"

Douglass Kropelnicki

1y↑3

100%

27 More Replies...

Lee Randolph

1y↑1.1K

I think the biggest reason tommy failed and Adonis succeeded was Adonis was simply smarter and more mature. Tommy was barely an adult when he met Rocky and grew impatient with not having a quick title shot and riches leaving him easy prey for Duke. Adonis on the other hand was much older than tommy when he began training with Rocky plus he was college educated and had previously worked in the financial industry so he knew how the world worked especially from a financial standpoint. Lastly as mentioned Adonis had strong family values instilled in him by mary ann and tommy didn’t have any family.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑125

That's a very good point. Adonis was closer to Rocky's age in the original Rocky film (I remember Rocky was 30 in Rocky 1 but can't remember how old Adonis was in Creed 1 at the moment) while Tommy was barely 19/20.

gary peters

1y↑86

The vibe with Tommy Gunn was that he was really only in it for the money. He was a tough kid with a dark past who didn't seem that bright. It seems like he was interested in using his toughness to make himself rich. Nothing wrong with that necessarily, but it seems like his loyalty was only on whomever could get him that big payday. So once George Washington Duke offered him the world he was prepared to leave Rocky in the dust.

Adonis, on the other hand, as you said, obviously didn't need the money, and was smart enough to land a corporate job that was very lucrative. But in his heart, he was a fighter. He wanted it for the same reasons Rocky wanted it: to prove to himself that he's somebody. Sure Rocky probably got into boxing for the same reason as Tommy: tough kid, not too bright, not a lot of options. But Rocky always had the heart of a fighter like Adonis, that he carried in all walks of life. That desire to be better. To prove to himself he can rise to a challenge. In Rocky V, Adrian has that great quote she says to Rocky, "All those fighters that you beat, you beat them with heart." That's what Adonis understands that Tommy didn't. The money and fame are great, but it wasn't only about that. It was about self-respect and giving every last bit that you have to earn something you believe in so much. Tommy starts out seeming like maybe that's where it's at for him, but slowly reveals himself not to be.

Lee Randolph

1y↑28

@Stryfe the Warrior Adonis was 28 in creed ll

Lex Kanyima

1y↑3

@gary peters Tommy was not ready to reach the top

Kareem Abdallah

1y↑4

@Stryfe the Warrior creed is 25

8 More Replies...

Dax Money

1y↑2.1K

Ironically Tommy’s Morrsions story is more tragic than Tommy gunns

KGBeast

1y↑197

I read his life story and my week is ruined

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑308

It definitely is tragic. Morrison was phenomenal.

Elvis Pressley

1y↑79

Apparently, Morrison's life REALLY went off the tracks in terms of drugs/partying/womanizing after the movie because he was a superstar hw boxer and big franchise movie star.

Mykael Onyx

1y↑185

Morrison’s life was incredibly tragic. A talented, great looking guy that was destined for greatness let the horrors of fame corrupt and ruin his life and that lead to a young death… tragic.

Shining Phantasy

1y↑49

I was going to say something similar to this; ironic that the lessons told regarding the Tommy Gunn character in Rocky V were somewhat parallel to what undid Morrison later on in his boxing career. He is my favorite boxer to watch too and it's left to the imagination how devastating he could have been with laser focus, consistent training habits, and better extracurricular choices. A young, successful boxer's life isn't going to be without distractions of course so easier to say on the outside looking in to be fair.

28 More Replies...

SuperFan MusicMaker

1y↑335

While Tommy and Adonis do have a lot of contrasts and differences in their upbringings and attitudes, Rocky himself also approached mentoring Adonis in a completed different way to how he did Tommy, and his influence was just as crucial to how differently they both turned out.

Rocky did care about Tommy, but at this point he was still lamenting his recent retirement from boxing and was desperate for any way to get back on top. He genuinely wanted Tommy to succeed, but there was always a sense that Rocky was trying to vicariously relive his own career through Tommy. And Tommy himself felt that he was being disrespected because nobody saw him and just focused on his already famous mentor instead. It's sad that their relationship crumbled, but it was inevitably going to happen with how Rocky was approaching it.

But with Adonis, Rocky is older and wiser and fully accepts that his time in the spotlight is gone, especially helped by the fact that he had his last fight in Balboa and went off a high note. Even after finding out that he's Apollo's son, Rocky treats Adonis as his own individual and not just an extension of himself or Apollo. He has no interest in profiting off Adonis' success as he did with Tommy, and as his absence from Creed III indicates, Rocky is also willing to step down and let Adonis live his own life and career when he knows his protege can take care of himself.

Adonis was always going to be different from Tommy anyway, but Rocky had to prove that he'd learned from his previous mistakes.

comic book reviewer

1y↑14

To me the way i saw Rocky with Tommy it was clear Rocky still wanted to carry on his legacy but he slowly realize he still had his respect and Legacy from the people who cared about him and saw him as a hero but I never saw Rocky wanting to relive his own career through Tommy but Felt Tommy was a lot like him and felt He could be someone to carry on the Rocky legacy only to realize He was never fully like him something Rocky had to realize and Even try to talk with him when he wanted to fight him despite the fact it was never going to happen

Lex Kanyima

1y↑1

@comic book reviewer but Tommy should have never been greedy just like that

Shining Phantasy

1y↑4

Rocky capitalizing inadvertently from a sense that Tommy's ascension up the boxing ranks was giving Rocky a sense of euphoria (To the extent that he was alienating and being a bit of an a-hole to his son) as well as re-connection to Mickey by taking on a similar role; there is something to all of that. However I don't think that he intended to profit off of Tommy as he was taking things slow with him and not pushing him recklessly to lucrative fights like GWD was trying to persuade him to do, focusing on Tommy's development rather than the prospect of cashing in upon first opportunity.

Champion Boy

1y↑1

@Lex Kanyima tommy was a bad kid who believed that money and success were the only things that could make him anything more than his dad's piss stain.

Unfortunately he didn't ever learn past that and Rocky himself wasn't ready to teach him that lesson.

So, a failure he would be

Lex Kanyima

1y↑1

@Champion Boy but Tommy was influenced by Duke and Rocky warned him.

3 More Replies...

Marty Mart

1y↑617

I always felt it was a shame that in the first Creed film no reference is made to Tommy and Rocky's reluctance to train anyone else because of that. But I guess Stallone didn't treat Rocky 5 as canon

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑86

Yeah, it would've been nice if they made more references to it

MAW PRODUCED

1y↑54

Honestly that Rocky with Tommy...may he rest in peace....was really horrible....the worst of the franchise.....it was good that Sly pretended it never happen. Horrible movie.

therealmo

1y↑46

@Stryfe the Warrior The impression Adonis made sparring Danny was a tribute to the impression Tommy made with Rocky at Mickey's Gym. Both wanted to prove a point and it backfired on both of them.

Chuck-El

1y↑63

@MAW PRODUCED Rocky mentioned Tommy just not in name in the first creed about his reluctance to train again

Michael Mclaren

1y↑46

When Adonis first asks rocky to train him rocky does say "I tried and it didn't turn out too well". I do remember it being in the film. Then Adonis tells rocky that he wouldn't fail rocky.

30 More Replies...

comic book reviewer

1y↑238

To me Tommy Gunn fatal flaw was failing to realize he can't please everyone and needed to see that he had to build his legacy slowly and not taking shortcuts and see that buildings slowly you are taking things carefully as it takes time

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑13

Agreed

Anthony Cervantes

1y↑131

One thing I always found different about tommy and Adonis is how they both approach their training. Tommy was more impatient and thought he was ready when he wasn’t. Adonis had more ring psychology by watching rocky v creed and even though he was a little impatient he knew that it was more about skill then power at the end and that’s what helped him.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑5

Fair point

Lex Kanyima

Donnie didn't watch the Tommy Gunn fights

Anthony Cervantes

@Lex Kanyima true I was referring to the classic rocky v Apollo fight in the beginning of creed and Donnie starting my to re enact it so he learns how to fight in the situation

Lex Kanyima

@Anthony Cervantes true

Accel

1y↑14

Adonis desperately craved for mentorship with someone he can trust, and since Rocky had a really close relationship with Apollo, Donnie naturally saw Rocky as a close family/mentor. Also Adonis was given a good education, even though he has a lot of anger and showed the occasional temper tantrum, he still respects the hell out of Rocky, and would never think of laying his hands on him.

ButtaMilkBiscuitsGaming

1y↑5

I agree, the beginning of Creed 2 even shows this when he asked Rocky after winning the Championship fight, Hey Unc....You good? Rocky smiles, Man..... Adonis loved Rocky man, and even after al the disagreements they had, he always came back to Rocky.... make ya shed some tears a little. Tommy tho.... i think we do need a directors cut of V. Flesh his story and background out a little more. it would i have no doubts make that movie better.

nathan garcia

1y↑41

One the main differences is about how Rocky approaches them as students, Rocky actually stays reluctant teaching Adonis throughout the first movie, and is a bit more cautious. While with Tommy being reluctant at first becomes super enthusiastic about training. Another point is Adonis gets humbled early on when losing a fight in the gym while Tommy stays winning until his street fight with Rocky

Wylie Love

1y↑5

It’s almost as if Rocky wasn’t mature enough to train Tommy and almost wanted to keep living the dream as a boxer through Tommy. With Adonis, there’s more gravity because he realizes that training is all he has left to pass, mainly because he’s a bad father.

Smiley Ent.

1y↑3

@Wylie Love also cause he didn’t know if he was about to train another Tommy

Terminal Lumbago

1y↑1

I wonder if age played a factor too. By the time Rocky trained Adonis, he physically couldn’t take as active of a role.

Jandro

1y↑45

Pretty easy the difference is that Adnois was saved by Apollos' wife and given a second chance. He was shown real love and affection and also had privilege. He didn't have to box. Tommy was abused and had no one to look too. He was poor and wanted quick money because he knew he could fight. He just needed some guidance and polish and knew Rockys style was perfect to mold him into a champion. Tommy was just interested in using people to get what he wanted. He was easily lead astray by the sleazy promoter even tho Rocky gave him great reasons to stay away from promoters like Duke. Tommy Guns story is obviously modeled off of Tyson. As the video says, there's a speech Mickey gives that's almost word for word the same as an interviews Cus gave with Tyson how Tyson was his motivation to stay alive.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑2

Agreed

Drew Russell

1y↑65

I never knew about the forgiveness deleted scene. I quite liked it as it in some ways I feel completes Tommy's arc instead of the film just being another story of Rocky overcoming adversity.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑15

Agreed, it could've been a nice touch

Lord_Edge

1y↑2

It's kind of funny that there's a superior version of Rocky V we'll presumably never see, yet Stallone wasted millions re-editing a worse version of Rocky IV lol.

Sony X4500

50w

@Lord_Edge He probably doesn't want to edit a movie were his dead son is in it.

john cap

1y↑28

The love Rocky had for Tommy,the passion he had for the sport and the stuff in the basement is what pushed Rocky through. It's even said throughout the street fight.

Thor Odinson

1y↑3

Both Adonis and Tommy had severe daddy issues and transferred those issues onto Rocky. But Adonis’s issue was the lack of a father and filling that gap in his life, and Rocky was able to do that. Tommy, on the other hand, not only had a father, but he had one that was violently abusive. So when he transferred his daddy issues to Rocky, it took him to a violent place. He wasn’t hitting Rocky so much as he was hitting his father who abused him all his life.

Big Business

1y↑12

R.I.P Tommy Morrison. I binge watched the Rocky Films and CREEDs with my uncle Ralphi, and i couldnt help but LOVE Tommy. Not only because of what happened to him, but because, honestly, I feel like he was VERY REALISTIC for what its like to be a boxer that crawls out of poverty to fight.

I do not at ALL blame Tommy for his fate. If i came up from shit, was trained by the best boxer in the world, AND have so many opportunities for money, promos, and other sources of Income; I would most likely fall to the "dark side". Tommy fell for the glitz and glam of boxing. And its my personal Headcanon that Tommy went sort of a similar route to Johnny Laurence. I loved Tommy.

Goji Thriller66

1y↑112

I always thought that for a future Creed sequel they should have Adonis fight an older Tommy Gunn. Rocky’s latest student vs his fallen student. Thou that would probably be disrespectful towards the late Tommy Morrison, and it probably wouldn’t be a good route to take the series.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑27

It certainly would've been a solid idea

Lex Kanyima

1y↑1

@Stryfe the Warrior Tommy would beat Donnie

Alex Mansfield

1y↑7

Dude tommy would be in his 40s

Mr. Friendship

1y↑7

@Alex Mansfield If Tommy is in his 40s, then I don't think he continued boxing anytime soon since the age of retirement for boxers is 37.

FighterCK

1y↑6

@Mr. Friendship not really. Alot of fighters fight into their 40s. It's been a trope since the 1900s; the boxer that doesn't know when to hang it up. Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Ali, Tyson, Holyfield all took paydays long after they should have retired and off all of them only Hopkins had a successful career in his 40s.

4 More Replies...

LowKey

1y↑33

Adonis already came from money, none of the stuff that swayed Tommy would have worked on him. Adonis just wanted to fight and fulfil his legacy, so naturally Rocky always had more to offer than any big time promoter

Lex Kanyima

1y↑5

Well Apollo is a smart business man

Dragon Fire

1y↑75

14:23 very interesting you should say that. Some fans including myself have also compared Creed 3's plot (via the trailer) has elements similar to Rocky 3 and Rocky 5. In some ways Damien like Clubber Lang is a hungry individual who's envious of their respective opponent's success and the fact that they feel Creed and Rocky hasn't to truly earned their titles due to them fighting in expedition fights/setups.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑7

The parallels are definitely there!

Dragon Fire

1y↑5

@Stryfe the Warrior yep, I remember one fan commented on one of the trailers that the movie does have some parallel to Rocky 3 and 5.

Lex Kanyima

But Damien is less tough

Dragon Fire

@Lex Kanyima we shall see

Danny Dimes

1y↑2

It's like pottery!

Rick Torres

1y↑22

I dont get how people diss Rocky 5. I thought it was a great movie, along with the rest of the saga. Just to see how Rocky, how he was a successful and "civilized" fighter, like Mick called him in Rocky 3, to come back to his old stomping grounds, was a good story. I think it doesn't get a lot of love, because he didn't fight in a ring, but that's what made it special. Seeing him come back to the land of the mortals and become one of the rest of the people again, made it special. Not to mention, Elton John's song in the ending credits titled "Measure of a Man" was a nice feather on the proverbial hat. I dont believe it was a great way to end the franchise, so that is why I'm glad that 16 years later, Rocky Balboa came out, which to me, is the film that spoke to me the most, because of my personal crusade I was going through in 2006, and how that movie enabled me to learn to believe in myself and even helped me to see my life through different perspective. So yes, I like Rocky 5, even with all its flaws. Is it perfect? No. Is it great story telling? Bet your bottom dollar it is.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑5

A lot of the cut material also would've helped the film I think. It's a shame that it released the way it did. I also love the Measure of a Man montage

FB

Because Rocky has always been and uplifting movie with an underdog coming out on top. But Rocky 5 was different because Rocky lost all his money and his student became a jerk.

Greg Evangelista

1y↑3

Rocky V looks a lot better in retrospect, as a midpoint in the entire saga. It unfortunately had 15 years of being the assumed final film in the series, and in that role it was not what people wanted.

Nakita Palmer

1y↑2

Thank you!!! I that it was just me who felt this way!! It was actually realistic to me. I that it was a good movie, fr.

Norrad

1y↑4

I always thought that during the process of Tommy’s success he was slowly drifting apart from Rocky and was losing himself and Rock’s teaching where as Adonis needed Rocky and was very dead set on to him and I do think Rocky does remember his mistake from Tommy and instead of excitingly teaching Adonis he wanted it make sure he was serious and if he wasn’t he was out

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑1

Agreed, you can definitely see that in Rocky's speech to Adonis at Mighty Mick's.

Emperor DxD

1y↑22

There many reasons Tommie failed but this can also be on Rocky he was still young and inexperienced as a trainer so he probably made mistakes

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑3

That's also a fair statement

OtakuD50

1y↑2

I think the problem wasn't so much that Rocky had failings as a trainer but that Tommy also needed a proper manager. Rocky thought it was the trainer's job to do both, following Mickey's example, but Mickey himself wasn't a great manager. What Tommy really needed was someone like Duke (Apollo's trainer & manager) who wouldn't silently protect his charge like Rocky did or like Mickey did when keeping Rocky ignorant about Clubber Lang - Duke would have been able to navigate Tommy up the ranks and tell him to his face why he wouldn't be ready for the champ yet and what he would need to do to be ready.

Willie fauker

1y↑1

Also, his recent diagnosis of brain damage along with him maybe trying to get some monetary gain, (recently lost his fortunes do to Paulie and accountant) he wasn't in the right mindset so to speak

Willie fauker

1y↑1

@OtakuD50 very good point bro. I'm loving the discussions on these Rocky videos. 😅

Simon Jack

1y↑7

I always thought it was about what's in someone's heart! Tommy only cared about Fame he didn't care how he got there he just wanted to be the champ whereas Adonis Creed he wanted Fame but he also wanted a life he wanted to make his own legacy and not be stuck in his father's shadow. Power corrupts but sometimes power can make you stronger if you let the light make your path

M567dk

1y↑9

I have to say that I enjoyed this video as I never knew that the actor who played Tommy Gunn in the Rocky V film passed away. I Mean that is just heart breaking to hear. Still, thanks for the video and keep putting up your fantastic videos.

Stryfe the Warrior

Thanks for watching!

Jordan Glasper

1y↑5

This was a really good video. The difference between Tommy and Adonis. Tommy was all about self he never truly loved Rocky he was just using Rocky to get to the next level. Genuine love is often reciprocated by two people. Rocky loved Tommy because Tommy reminded him of his self when he was younger. Analyze the character of time and you will see everything that I said to be true. Phenomenal video analysis. And comparison. Just subscribed, notification bell on!!!

Stryfe the Warrior

Thank you!

Terminal Lumbago

1y↑1

So in Creed, Adonis, as an up-and-coming fighter, was given his big break by the champion (much like Apollo did for Rocky).

In Creed II, Adonis fought a much bigger and stronger fighter from another country (a literal Drago, just like how Rocky fought Ivan).

In Creed III, Adonis fights a hungry contender, albeit one who is older than he is, who is jealous of the success he’s had (much like when Rocky fought Clubber Lang).

So Adonis has fought his Apollo, his Drago, and his Clubber. Where do y’all think the series will go from here in the fourth installment (which considering how Creed 3 has done at the box office, is probably inevitable)?

gary peters

1y↑25

I wish Rocky V wasn't so universally hated by fans and Stallone. Yes, it seems like the story is rushed and yes it's weird that his kid has aged 5-7 years, even though the movie starts immediately where Rocky IV left off, but I respect Stallone for trying something new. It was definitely a product of the early 90s (feelings about that may vary). I was 9 when it came out and it was the first Rocky movie I ever got to see in the theater, so I admit bias. But I love the flashback scenes with Mickey, and the fight at the end. It was a little odd that Rocky reverts back to the Rocky of I and II in speech and mannerisms, despite being more "civilized" in III and IV. There's one scene where Robert asks Paulie if he thinks his dad is acting weird, and Paulie says he just took some hard shots to his head... I guess Drago knocked the class out of him? In any case, I was glad to see that old school Rocky back. I wish it had been more fleshed out, but I still loved Rocky IV. But I guess I am glad Stallone wasn't satisfied, since we got Rocky Balboa, which was a perfect bookend to the original. The Creed movies stole some of that thunder, unfortunately, but I still liked them a lot.

ny_Javi

1y↑6

Rocky balboa (2006) in a way was the perfect sendoff and true retirement to rocky’s career it succeed where 5 failed and rocky was finally able to regained the respect of the fans and was able to finally be at peace with boxing

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑5

It's a shame a lot of the cut content didn't make it into Rocky V. It actually helped expand the story.

Luis Ruiz

@Stryfe the Warrior how about Tommy Jarvis looking like Corey Feldman in Friday the 13th part 4 in 1984 and then becoming Thom Mathews, a 25 year old in 1986?

Lex Kanyima

@Stryfe the Warrior but fans are tired of Rocky in 1990

Bottom Barrel Budget Films

1y↑6

I wish that there were more YouTubers who would talk about Rocky sequels because there's so much story and characters and arcs that go completely untouched when it's just as developed as any other franchise

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑1

I plan on making more character videos like these, so stay tuned!

Bottom Barrel Budget Films

@Stryfe the Warrior I highly request a video power scaling every major boxer in the series!
Personally I put Drago, Rocky from IV, and Apollo from 1 at the top

Polly

1y↑22

Tommy Morrison was a damn good fighter. Unfortunately like a lot of successful fighters he enjoyed partying too much.

CKenshin

1y↑1

Adonis might have had the rockier start growing up in juvie. But he actually had a very solid upbringing living under his mom and had a stable albeit unfulfilling office job. Adonis did have more to lose, but it shows that he really wanted to fight to prove that he can go the distance to himself. While Tommy, he fought to prove himself to others

Dominic Mercado

I think the one major difference between the two, which you pointed out, was the fact that growing up Tommy never had the idea positive role model and Creed had someone who saw he needed help as a kid. As well as, Tommy was getting high on the idea rich lifestyle while Creed, in the end, wanted to make sure he remembered where he came from.

Stryfe the Warrior

Bingo

Aloha Bama

1y↑130

Tommy Morrison was actually my friend in real life. Good guy. I miss talking to him.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑21

That's awesome that you knew him!

David Brown

1y↑6

Wish I could have met him, glad you two had a friendship 😊

Randall Rutherford

1y↑2

I would love to meet you and talk to you sometime. I am a true fan of Tommy’s.

Tony Constanza

1y↑3

I interviewed tommy before he passed he was talking about fighting and doing some shows even as an old man

David Cook

1y↑1

It's a shame Tommy had to retire because of aids. He was only 28. Just hitting his prime. He had some really good wins already.

1 More Replies...

Ollie Connors

1y↑70

Everyone should be aware of Damian’s (Creed 3) character is going to mirror both Tommy and Cluber Lang.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑11

Agreed

Moises Jimenez

1y↑3

Just watched the movie last night and was thinking those exact thoughts right before I scrolled by your comment lol

Jcholla

I love Rocky V. It went full circle with Rocky being the father he never had and having a loving relationship with his son at the end of the movie. I was disappointed when Stallone said he hated it.

Stryfe the Warrior

Nothing wrong with that!

OSCAR ESCAPA

1y↑2

Everyone is saying great points Im just going to add one more... When Rocky mentored Tommy he had just recently retired from one of the most spectacular fights in that universe's boxing history... everyone was still considering Rocky the best fighter ever and everyone could still believe (in that universe) that Rocky could beat up any fighter.... hell Rocky came back to the ring probably a decade after the events on this movie (again we are all talking about the reality inside that universe).... so exactly because of all this, when Tommy became champion, absolutely everyone wanted to see Rocky beat up Tommy because in the minds of everyone Rocky was still the best boxer in the planet... they were just too close as fighters to not develop a rivalry.... now add what everyone is saying jealousy, immaturity, traumas from Tommy and the fight between both was almost inevitable with a character like Tommy.... NOW... when Adonis Creed became champion absolutely nobody in that universe would have believed that Rocky could beat up any boxer, it was extremely clear to everyone that Rocky at that point was an old retired boxer who almost nobody knew if he was still alive!... Zero chances of a fighter rivalry would have developed

The Panel Biter

1y↑11

Now that I’m reminded of who Tommy was as a character, it should have been him to return in Creed 2.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑7

Unfortunately, Tommy Morrison passed away in 2013, so unless they did a recast (which they hardly ever did outside of Apollo Creed's wife Mary Anne, and Rocky's son Robert), it wouldn't have happened. It would've made a great story though of pupil vs pupil

Chantl Mcclary

1y↑4

Seriously need a mighty mick movie I'd love to see Eddie red mane play the role of young mick with maybe Cillian Murphy as micks trainer. Also Rocky 5 could've gone over to Tokyo like Duke suggested at the beginning of the film. During Rocky 5 Adrian and Robert would still not be down with the training of Tommy and of course Rocky putting ego and glory first would do it anyway. However when Tommy does eventually get the title Rocky is given a sizeable cut and casted aside for Duke who he feels could take him further which breaks rocky. 2 yrs later though Tommy is a wealthy yet not a respected champ and he realizes he'll never have the respect without beating Rocky. Rocky due to financial issues would take the fight.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑1

A Mick film would be great

Cody Weaver

1y↑2

The failed student turned rival and later the teacher finding redemption is one of my favorite 1-2 punch story trope.

str8ballinonyou

I'm a supporter of both rocky 5 and karate kid 3 haha. Just because I liked the themes explored in both. Especially in KK3 when Pat M told Daniel when he was getting rocked that it was ok to be afarid,but not to get lost it. Rocky 5 was definitely rough but the MMA street fight was just brutal.

Stryfe the Warrior

Yeah, Miyagi's "Must not give into fear" is one of the highlights of Karate Kid 3 for me.

Kevin2k fan

1y↑7

Rocky V was a great movie I loved Tommy Gun he was great it was just like Anakin Skywalker story was Rocky was like Obi wan Kenobi and he trains him to fight and be the fighter he wants to be but because of Duke and the media believing that he was Rockys Robot he decided to turn against him but also the movie deals with family issues and not only that it’s about how u rise after losing it all they lost it all and the Rocky and Mickey scene motivated me all the time and I’m a huge Rocky fan I’m obsessed with Rocky and the movies changed my life I can’t wait to see Creed lll.

FlopArtist

Scrolling through the comments and the video creator has like & replied to a lot of them.

This guy really participated in the conversation he’s creating, that’s how you know when someone’s really passionate about what they’re talking about. Subbed 👍🏾

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑1

Thank you! I'm trying

William Dean

1y↑4

It never made sense to me that Rocky never had something in writing with Tommy... Especially after Rocky had just been taken advantage of by his accountant losing all his money. Even if Rocky was experiencing brain damage..Adrian wasn't... she would have made sure once Tommy started winning fights.. they would have put something on paper. In real life Duke wouldn't have been able to get to Tommy unless he went through Rocky.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑2

That's a solid point. That might've been in a scene on the cutting room floor. There were a lot of scenes that made the film make more sense that were deleted. I'll go out on a limb and say if that's not the case, considering how Rocky was I wouldn't be surprised if he failed to put something in writing

Nick

1y↑1

Since you mentioned Buddy Marcell, would be very interesting to bring George Washington Duke back to the franchise and make them rivals, he was one of the best things about Rocky 5, just like Terry Silver was in The Karate Kid Part 3 and the writers made us realize it in Cobra Kai in a phenomenal way. It's a shame we'll probably never see or heard about Tommy Gunn again, considering Sly's prejudice towards the fifth film and Morrison's death.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑2

Agreed, it'd be interesting to see Duke back in the franchise

Nick

1y↑2

@Stryfe the Warrior Definitely! Have you read the Rocky V novelization? I got to read a few things about it, but, never the whole book! There must be some interesting stuff in there, I remember reading about Rocky going back to looking for a job with Tony Gazzo again and find out that he was murdered and Adrian being pregnant with a baby girl too, maybe it could have been part of the original script.

BBKUS

Lots of differences between Adonis and Tommy. And I think Mary Anne is a huge one. Like you touch upon at the end of the video, Adonis grew up in a nice home. She took him in and at a time where his life could’ve turned in a different direction, made a difference.

Adonis clearly respected Rocky Junior as well. Adonis was a much different style fighter died. He had more heart than Tommy ever did. It wasn’t so much physical as it was mental. Adonis was a better man. His nature was more good and I think his motivations for fighting were . much different.

comic book reviewer

52w

to me the way I saw Rocky v was to meant to show Rocky realizing to his sadness and regret that he had to give up boxing and when Tommy came he felt Tommy was a lot like him and felt like he could be the micky to help Tommy much like Micky did for him only to realize Tommy was never like him and even Adrian said he never had his heart showing Adrian knew Tommy was never anything like Rocky and had to remind him Micky and Rocky had something special and even reminded him he not Micky as well showing Rocky realizing he was never going to be the Micky or tommy being the rocky the boxing ring needed just yet

herrzimm

1y↑8

Tommy failed because he was stupid and selfish. Adonis succeeded because he was focused more on proving himself and being worthy.

Curtis Robinson

"Only a bad teacher" is NOT an exception in Rocky V. You can't just wake up one day and say "I'm gonna be a teacher/mentor/trainer" it takes years of training and experience and some people are naturals (like Apollo) and Rocky definitely wasn't. Rocky knew he wasn't ready to be a trainer and was guilted into it way too soon. One of Rocky's struggle in the movie is he's learning how to be a mentor and he's blowing it

Stryfe the Warrior

In your opinion it's not an exception. In my opinion it is.

Gendo Ikari III

Rocky’s student could only be Apollo’s son. That bit might as well have been written in stone as early as Rocky 2.

king Sampson

Rocky 5 actually was my favorite as a kid, the street fight was different and 🔥

Giantrobby

It’s because Rocky still had everybody’s attention because he was fresh out of the game, so anybody he chose to train personally would be easy pickings for promoters who wanted to make a buck. When Tommy began training, he was an easy target for GW Duke, who wanted to make money no matter how he can frame it. And Tommy ate it up easy because he was more concerned with the title, not who he was there with.

When Adonis went all the way out to Philadelphia to seek Rocky’s training, Rocky was deeply retired and his only relevance in the boxing community was as a memory. He was no longer the most talked-about athlete in the boxing world, nor was Apollo, so Adonis had the perfect cover to be taken up by Rocky without making the same waves Tommy and Rocky did. While of course Adonis’ identity was eventually made public, nobody tried taking him from Rocky, because they knew if Adonis was special enough to bring Rocky out of retirement, then nothing was going to tear them apart.

TheDualHero15

1y↑32

I wish Tommy and Adonis met each other in a movie.

We're definitely living in the bad timeline.

Stryfe the Warrior

It certainly would've been cool

Jorge Bersabe

1y↑6

@Stryfe the Warrior Specially if we consider that Tommy is a dark reflection of Adonis. Tommy is what Adonis could have been had Mary Anne never raised him.

Jordan Pax

1y↑3

I feel like creed is missing the great rivalry that Apollo and rocky had. Adonis doesn't yet have that great friend rival like his father and mentor. They give him that and the cycle will continue from, rocky to creed to that person.

Stryfe the Warrior

Agreed, I think Adonis could benefit from that. Perhaps Creed III is a look at that going wrong

Stu Pendous

1y↑2

Tommy Morrison would've made a great Dean Portman in the Mighty Ducks films.

Stryfe the Warrior

Hah! I can see that

KingoftheGundam79

I still feel like Rocky had some responsibility in how Tommy Gunn turned out. The movie itself mentions multiple times how Rocky was effectively molding Tommy to be like himself, setting Tommy up to have a similar career without considering his student's feelings on the matter. He took a student with a bundle of anger issues and threw him into the ring without properly addressing it. In contrast, by the time Adonis comes along Rocky was far more reluctant to take him on, in part due to the cancer but also citing Adonis' issues with his father. Both he and Adonis needed to take some time before they could begin to effectively train together.

comic book reviewer

50w

To me the way I saw the movie was meant to show Rocky seeing a lot of himself in Tommy and thought he was a lot like him and felt he could be the mickey tommy needed well failing to realize Tommy was never like him and that Mickey would've wanted him to be his own person than using his training style on Tommy as Rocky to me felt he needed to be something like Mickey only to realize Tommy was never going to be the legend people needed

Damian Starks

1y↑4

Great video thanks for bringing Tommy Gunn back to our attention.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑1

Thanks for watching!

Damian Starks

@Stryfe the Warrior don’t mention it !

King Will

1y↑5

It was rockys first time teaching so he had every reason to be having difficulty teaching when it's his first time doing so

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑2

Fair point

Miguel Miguel

1y↑2

Tommy had so much potential

Grier Gentry

1y↑6

Actually, Tommy Gunn was INCREDIBLY successful and probably went down as one of, if not THE, greatest champions. In Rocky Balboa, Rocky is referred to as “the ex, ex, ex” champion. That means that between Rocky 5 in 1990 and 2006 when RB came out, there were 3 heavyweight champions. Union Cane, winner of the tournament after Rocky retired was #1. Tommy Gunn beat him for the title to become #2. Finally, we have Mason Dixon as #3. Given Dixon’s age, Gunn would have had to have been champ for AT LEAST A DECADE, probably more.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑2

The problem is that there's no official source confirming this; it's all speculation. There's rumors that Ivan Drago beat Tommy right after he won the belt, or Clubber Lang beating Union Cane after Cane beat Tommy in a rematch after his fight with Rocky. So it's hard to say.

Grier Gentry

1y↑3

@Stryfe the Warrior Actually, there is. 2006’s Rocky Balboa called him the “ex, ex, ex-heavyweight champion”. That means that there have been three champions since he was forced to retire. Cane held it for a cup of coffee before losing to Gunn. So, it was only Gunn and Dixon between 1990 - 2006. Given Dixon’s age and number of title defenses in RB, Gunn would have HAD to have held the title for at least a decade.

Lex Kanyima

1y↑1

@Grier Gentry but Tommy didn't vacated the belt

J Q

@Grier Gentry I don't think he'd be getting that much praise, more so because of Creative Choices. Stallone distanced himself from Tommy Morrison because of his many off-ring issues and controversies. His character was pretty much disappeared from the public discourse in this movie universe.

king djack3000

Also Adonis did say during negotiations for the Pretty Ricky if it was any other trainer I wouldn't take that fight same as Rocky tried to do with the 1st Apollo and Dixon fight.

Street Fighting Man

This was so good! Very cool indeed I enjoyed everything about it and agree with your analysis. I didn't know about the Cus Demato speech to Tyson, I'd love to read that I doubt it's on video? Both Tommy and Adonis had father issues too I wonder if that's a common thing amongst boxers

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑1

Thank you! I actually used footage from it, but if you look up cus d'amato tyson speech, it'll point you in the right direction.

Street Fighting Man

@Stryfe the Warrior thank you friend

Simon

1y↑1

Rocky V is underated. That end fight the most realistic of the franchise.

jaylerd

There’s a deleted scene in Rocky VI where he tells Steps about him, I think recalling it as a failure on his part.

Mason Martin

1y↑32

Honestly Tommy was one of my favorite characters from the series besides clubber lang

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑8

It's a shame we don't hear any more backstory/details about either of them

Chuck-El

1y↑1

@Stryfe the Warrior glad you acknowledged Tommy's boxing career tommy had a badass right Hook

john cap

1y↑1

I think a really good Creed 3 would been really emotional for Rocky if Tommy Guns son came up in the ranks blaming Rocky for everything that happened to his father. Also I don't think this is canon but Wikipedia does have it saying Dixon is the one who took. The title from Gunn because the refer to Rocky as the XX champion. I think they really meant 2time champion not that there was only two other champions since Rocky

Lex Kanyima

But the title was vacant

john cap

Union Caine, Tommy Gunn then Mason. But I don't think Mason won it from Gunn. He would been champion for like 15 years

ANTI🛡️SOCIAList

I totally agree, Tommy wouldn't have stood a chance against Rocky's opponents!

Sierra Symone

it's because he wanted to take the same path that Raymond bishop did (for those that understand that fight night reference) 😅

Dan. 2007

I don’t understand the hate behind rocky 5. I love how in the end after the fight rocky accepts he has nothing to lose and becomes happy again

Stryfe the Warrior

Would've been a much better film if they hadn't cut so much out. Unfortunately a lot of the modern Rocky and Creed films suffer from this

Jean Methelus

1y↑1

respect to Adonis Creed for never try to fight Rocky one on one !

KnObi1 GonpAchiRo

1y↑2

Tommy deserves blame for being a bad student - but I will also blame Rocky a little too.
Rocky takes up coaching Tommy in Rocky V - a movie where the plot opens up with Rocky announcing his retirement, only to find that Paulie made some stupid investments and Rocky is now essentially broke.
So, a significant part of Rocky's motivation in training Tommy was to recoup his lost wealth. Not calling him crazy, but Rocky definitely wanted to earn some money to ensure a stable life for himself and his family - and that, I feel, corrupted his relationship with Tommy to a level.
With Donny, it was different. Rocky had no incentive for financial stability at that time and the only reason he agrees to train Donny is because he wanted to repay his debt to Apollo. In addition, his performance as a coach, too, was better because he was older, wiser and calmer - more suitable for coaching another than he was back during Rocky V. Plus, he had little distractions - his restaurant business was going well and he could devote himself to training Donny a lot more.

Stryfe the Warrior

That's a good point

Lex Kanyima

1y↑1

Rocky was inexperienced as a trainer

jetfire1153red

1y↑2

There is another key difference between Adonis Creed and Tommy gun, Adonis asked Rocky politely and with respect whereas Tommy gun just pushy, insisting while making it sound like Rocky owed him something when Rocky never actually met the bloke before. So the key difference between the two men is their attitude.

low budget studio 2.0

1y↑1

Other way around, rewatch creed and rocky 5 and you'll see Tommy just wanted a chance to train with his idol and even told rocky if he did something he didn't like he would leave and not bother him. While on the other hand Adonis just kept pushing and wouldn't take no for a answer when the were at Adrian's.
I think tommy gets a bad rep when he really doesn't deserve it.

jetfire1153red

@low budget studio 2.0 How many times did Rocky tried to shut down Tommy gun before he started training him anyway because Tommy gun wouldn’t take no for an answer.

low budget studio 2.0

@jetfire1153red but you got to remember the first time tommy was interrupted by Duke and rocky didn't say that he wasn't interested the first time, he just needed to clear his head.
As for the second time when rocky said he wasn't interested and Tommy lost his cool you could tell rocky was thinking about Tommy's offer. And the third and final time Tommy said if rocky turned down his offer after hearing what he had to say then he wouldn't bother him again.
Now when you look at when adonis and rocky first meet adonis keeps pushing rocky to train him, like saying "I'll meet you at mickys gym" when rocky obviously said no.

Ian Franklin

This could be a great comparison as to why Rocky is a much better teacher than Luke Skywalker. Rocky didn’t focus on his failure with Tommy Gunn when Adonis came along. Luke focused A LOT on his failure as a teacher to Leia and Hans son. There are many differences, for instances completely different genre of stories… but of the two, I’d take Rocky as my teacher any day. Moving on…

Smokey

Tommy done a great job for a non-actor , one of my favourite fighters

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑1

Agreed

dra631

50w

Wasn't Dame either a Golden Gloves Champ or rank #1 before his incarceration? That's a key difference between him and other Rocky/Creed villains. He's essentially a self-taught fighter with a championship pedigree.

David Sumner Filmmaker

"You were the chosen one! It was said you would destroy the Duke, not join him! Bring balance to boxing, not leave it in darkness! You were my brother Tommy, I loved you!"

Shawn Ramirez

I always liked Rocky v. I felt like the movie was more about growth and betrayal rather than just be about boxing. The Rocky franchise was kinda tiresome at that point. I thought it did well to go deeper into the souls of the character rather than just have another big fight.

The big fight doesn't actually solve anything. The story was always more about everyone around the character.

I thought Rocky iv was, in a lot of ways, the weakest of the stories. It was so black and white. It was like Rocky III, but just juiced up again. They just couldn't make that story again. Who dies next? What kind of bigger, badder villain do we get?

Rocky v was a great attempt at writing. I thought they did a good job. I thought they leaned on the Don King story a bit too much, especially for the time. I thought it took away from the father son vs father student dynamic.

Stryfe the Warrior

Yeah, Rocky IV's story is weak compared to a lot of the rest of the Rocky films. Some of the scenes cut out of V though didn't help the film in my opinion and did more to hurt it

DimeBrad

1y↑1

Tommy Gunn is pretty cool. I always liked Rocky 5. Maybe because i was a kid about the age of his sons character at the time when i watched in the early 90s.

carl taylor

This is a really cool channel man. Very knowledgeable and fun with all kinds of interesting content. What made you decide to do content about Rocky? I'm assuming you grew up watching Rocky movies and just love the franchise?

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑1

Thank you! Yes, I grew up watching the first five films as a teenager (I was 16 when Rocky Balboa came out). On my channel I talk about what I like typically (Cobra Kai, Rocky, anime, video games, etc), and here we are!

carl taylor

@Stryfe the Warrior That's awesome man. 😁

Dean Just Dean

1y↑1

I think the saying that there is no bad student only a bad teacher still holds true. Rocky was not ready to teach. He had not even accepted the loss from having all of his money stolen and being sent back to where he was before Apollo had ever heard of him. About the only improvements in his life that he retained were his family and not being a leg-breaker for some third rate loan shark. He was in no state of mind to be teaching anyone how to box as a sport, never mind as a profession. Being a teacher demands a lot of control of your emotions and acceptance of what is.

That does not completely absolve Tommy, however. Tommy was old enough and streetwise enough to know that nothing comes for free. If I sign this paper and I get all of this stuff, there has gotta be something else happening, man, as the song goes. But then, Rocky did a very bad job of trying to remind Tommy of these things.

Tommy has huge fukking shoulders, too. A man with a chest that broad, if he were trained to fight strategically and to know how to wear his opponent down over time, he would be unstoppable at peak fitness.

Lex Kanyima

Rocky would have recovered all of this

niceguy60

1y↑3

To be fair Adonis Creed was like a long lost relative to Rocky

David Brown

1y↑7

I always thought Rocky 5 was fine up untill the end you can clearly tell that’s when they started editing parts of story it doesn’t end well, Tommy Morrison great great fighter rip bro

Chase Janus

1y↑2

There is a directors cut on YouTube and it's alot more consistent and it's a considerably better movie

David Brown

@Chase Janus excellent I’ll have a look

Itz the Roblox Buddies!

1y↑5

Tommy Gunn was basically Tyson

John Smith

1y↑3

Oh it's no exception...Tommy just got lured away by the wrong kind of teacher! Not a teacher in the literal school sense mind you but someone who taught him an alternate route to the title...which turned out to be all wrong.

Stryfe the Warrior

Fantastic point

Nix

This was a really interesting breakdown.

Stryfe the Warrior

Thank you!

LionsHeart Ministries

Tommy Gunn should make an appearance in a Creed movie. perfect way to bring Balboa back, even if its a minor role

Viktor Riquelme

1y↑2

sadly the actor who play tommy passed away years ago

LionsHeart Ministries

1y↑2

@Viktor Riquelme dang, I didn't know. My condolences to him and his family. That would've been a decent way to redeem Rocky 5 as well as bring Stallone back for an appearance. We all know it's Creeds story now. Perhaps they can write the movie in a way that pays him that respect, as well as set Michael B as the present and future and Rockys legacy.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑1

Yeah as Viktor said, it's a shame Tommy isn't part of the canon as much now. Student vs student would've been cool to see

grease430

1y↑12

You forgot that Tommy fought Rocky who
Was still strong as he beat drago and takes months later after Rocky 4

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑8

I did touch on the subject briefly, though Rocky V still treats Rocky (and this is also touched upon in Rocky Balboa and Creed II) as not the same after the Drago fight. Rocky was still at a disadvantage from the damage from the Drago fight and still beat Tommy. In my opinion this still makes Tommy one of the weakest opponents in the franchise.

Lex Kanyima

1y↑1

@Stryfe the Warrior why is Tommy weak ?

TJ CARR

1y↑21

My opinion since Rocky Balboa is that we don’t get that movie without 5!

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑7

Rocky Balboa is indeed a solid film

Free Your Mind Films

1y↑2

Yeah I feel my appreciation for 5 (even though it's my least favorite in the series), has grown since it is now no longer the last one of the series. As a finale I always thought of it as fail. As another chapter of Rocky's before we see him as an older man in the next 3 films I think it's just fine and has its moments.

Toxic Lightning

5 has a special place in my heart.

Powered by Envy

Stryfe, you did an excellent job on this video sir.

Stryfe the Warrior

1y↑1

Thank you!

Sam Geary

I wonder if they would consider maybe for creed 4 if sly agrees to comeback have Tommy’s son start fighting and have him face creed that would be interesting

Stryfe the Warrior

Student vs student would be nice

Zach DeLong

Love the video but Duke actually tells Tommy that Rocky can keep training him. Tommy also tells Rocky that he can keep training him. Tommy just says that if Rocky is going to keep training him it’s going to be on Tommy’s terms

Stryfe the Warrior

51w

Thank you! I think even though Duke said those things, he meant otherwise

Michael Griger

Rocky V will always be my 2nd favorite movie out of the franchise!! After the 1st one of course...

Lord_Edge

I would argue that Tommy did have a bad teacher, Rocky succeeded in teaching him additional boxing skills but failed to teach him life lessons or stop Duke from corrupting him. It can be argued that Rocky tried, but also that he did a ** poor job of it. Tommy wasn't technically a bad person, just a person easily lead/manipulated like Johnny Lawrence. Duke managed to wrap him round his finger with ease similar to what Kreese did to Johnny and Rocky had no idea how to handle it.

Stryfe the Warrior

Agreed

Jay Harvey

I actually liked Rocky V, I kinda felt bad for Tommy, he was too easily influenced, I would've liked the forgiveness scene at the end better, it would've completed him.

Stryfe the Warrior

Agreed

john johnny

1y↑1

Creed 3 took the Rocky 5 story and made it good. Predictable but enjoyable.

LAFFO 1980

1y↑2

If im being honest i think stallone missed an even bigger opportunity by not developing the son of drago character. I think he would have been the better and more deserving redemption story to the rocky universe

Christian Krogh

1y↑1

Drago’s son returns in CREED 3 :-) He’s gonna help train Creed.

LAFFO 1980

@Christian Krogh love it

Stryfe the Warrior

It was reportedly in the works but without Stallone's involvement. I'm not sure if we'll ever see it as long as Irwin Winkler is still involved

LAFFO 1980

@Stryfe the Warrior yeh i feel like a ali/ frazier type of rivalry would have been great for drago /creed story or just having drago being the one coming to rocky would have been nice

jorgef1014

Rcky= batman
Pauly= Dick Grayson
Tommy= Jason Todd
Adonis= Tim Drake
I know what you're thinking. Pauley wasnt a boxer, but he was the first person rocky thought how to fight and like the first robin, he ultimately grew up and chose to separate himself to do his own thing. Tommy, like Jason, took all the lessons but was ultimately too broken mentally to be saved. Adonis, like Tim Drake, grows to be the successor.

A L Lopez

I liked Rocky V. The street fight was awesome.

Son Goku

1y↑4

Just earned a sub bro cuz I'm a HUGE rocky fan since a kid for years love creed and rocky creed is basically the same franchise and a great successor

Stryfe the Warrior

Thank you! I'll be making more videos soon

Edward Kyle

1y↑3

Poor Tommy…😢

Frank Farmer

Honestly I do agree because I really hated Rocky 5 for so many reasons, due to the fact that if it wasn't for Rocky, Tommy would still be nothing and living off the streets, Tommy betrayed Rocky for several reasons because he allowed that other guy to manipulate him which led to him being inpatient because he want to be a champion and the other guy was offering him money and women, on top of that Tommy had chose to forget where he came from and who brought him up to fame, that's why I really hated Rocky 5.