Magic System is a musical group from Abidjan in the Côte d'Ivoire (Ivory Co… Read Full Bio ↴Magic System is a musical group from Abidjan in the Côte d'Ivoire (Ivory Coast), founded in 1996, featuring Salif "Asalfo" Traoré, Narcisse "Goude" Sadoua, Etienne "Tino" Boué Bi, and Adama "Manadja" Fanny.

Magic System's recordings, in the Zouglou dance style, have featured in the charts throughout Africa (selling over 1.5 million CDs), the West Indies and in France, where the band became one of the most popular modern African artists.

Work
Magic System Lyrics

We have lyrics for these tracks by Magic System:

1er Gaou C'est dans ma galère que la go Antou m'a quitté, oh…
1er gaou (Version originale) C'est dans ma galère que la go Antou m'a quitté oh…
1er. Gaou see'est dans ma galère que la go Antou m'a quitté oh…
Abidjan Danser le zouglou hooo, holéléholého holéléholého Le Zoblazo…
Abou Magomafo tifoyémam tikamoyélié (2) abou vas y molo molo oh s…
Africa On va te chanter Te chanter Peace and love in…
Akwaba Eh, oh, eh, oh Eh, oh, eh, oh Eh, oh, eh,…
All Around The World All around the world All around the world All around…
Ambiance Les passagers à destination de l'ambiance Nous vous invitons…

Ambiance %C3%A0 l' africaine Héhé Après la pluie le beau temps héhé Augmente le niveau A…
Ambiance a gogo Les passagers à destination de l'ambiance Nous vous invitons…
Ambiance à l' africaine Apres la pluie le beau temps hehe Augmente le niveau ambian…
Ambiance à l'africaine Héhé Après la pluie le beau temps héhé Augmente le niveau A…
Amoulanga Instrumental Amoulanga Eh! Eh! Eh! Ninaa Mamaaan Amoulanga E…
Asimbonanga Asimbonanga Asimbonang′ uMandela thina Laph'ekhona Laph′ehle…
Aventurier Béissaah!!! Koffié Alanga moulé maloulé saah!!! langa Yé yé …
Ã§a va aller PARLÉ : LA PAIX, L'UNION ET LA SOLIDARITE EN COTE…
Bouger bouger Bouger, bouger Il faut bouger Eh, eh, eh, eh Ça va bouger, b…
Bouger bouger - feat. Mokobé Bouger bouger... il faut bouger, hé hé..., ça va bouger, bou…
C chô & ça brûle O.K ! Ladies and gentlemen you are now about to…
C chô ca brûle O.K! Ladies and gentlemen You are now about to witness histo…
C chô ça brûle !!! O.K ! Ladies and gentlemen you are now about to…
C'est la télé On a été critiqué partout oyé (x4) C’est la télé (x6) C’est…
C'est pas gâté On est ensemble, c'est pas gâté C'est pour ça, on est…
Ça me dégban Hommage à tous ceux qui à la première heure ont…
Ca va aller Parlé: la paix, l′union et la solidarite en cote d'ivoire…
Cherie Skalp, s'il te plaît Camarade, ambiance sentimentale Avec DJ…
Children of Africa Children of Africa, Ensemble levez-vous Children of Africa, …
Danse des magiciens (En provenance d'Anoumabo Magic system, Skalp, c'est encore …
Demoiselle Africa Africaaaaaaa, Africaaaaa ma jolie. Sur ton berceau je suis p…
Destin An Wind na song douni An wind na song douni Douni ya…
Dodo Yeah Dodo leyo! (dodo parle à dodo) Wouho dodo leyo! (dodo…
Doubehi Doubehi oh, Doubehi oh eh Doubehi oh, Doubehi souviens-toi (…
Femme est forte C'est menteur qui dit son témoin a voyagé hooo La femme…
Gazekagnon Pitié gazéee Tous tes amis t′ont pleuré Akissi delta t'a ple…
Kanga Leo Kanga léo léooo Kanga léo léooo Kanga léo léooo Kanga…
Ki Dit Mi Eh eh Magic System est encore ici Avec Kore et Bellek Mais y…
L Eh eh avec le Magic System C'est l'homme qui a peur Sinon…
L'eau va manquer On a vu nos parents lutter Pour améliorer notre quotidien Le…
L'homme qui a peur Eh eh avec le Magic System C'est l'homme qui a peur Sinon…
Là c'est die On a été critiqué partout oyé (x4) C’est la télé (x6) C’est…
La danse des magiciens En provenance d'Anoumabo, Magic System (Skalp) C'est encore …
M'mo ZokèninKènin Maah Zo Doubélédjiiiiooo Tou Dépaaa aaaOooh Naa…
M'ninda M'Ninda m'ninda m'ninda! M'ninda m'ninda m'ninda I fo toum…
Ma mélodie C'est l'histoire d'une petite Gaule Qui a voulu fatiguer le …
Magic Feel the magic in the air Allez, allez, allez Levez les main…
Mamadou Put your hands up (Kos!) Put your, put your hands up…
Même pas fatigué On y va On t'a pas dit de pas t'amuser avec…
Mi wan gno Mi Wan Gno Wayi oulé Mi Wan Gno Wayi oulé A cause d′academie…
Mninda M'Ninda m'ninda m'ninda! M'ninda m'ninda m'ninda I fo toum…
Molo Molo 504 BOYZ Miscellaneous Tight Whips"(feat. Lil' Romeo, Magic,…
On va samize A'SALFO : La musique est pour nous un facteur de rapprocheme…
On va samizé Amine: sur le l'ambiance de dans de mis s'est fait de Le…
Pas si diffÃ©rents On fait tous des rêves d'Afrique sans jamais y aller bercés …
Petit pompier Gagoule Yah Yah Goule Gagoule 2X Kizimoh oh Gagoule Yah Ya…
Plus haut Et s'envoler plus haut Et s'envoler plus haut Oh oh oh oh…
Poisson d'avril The Heavster, measure the pleasure then treasure the note Th…
Premier Gaou C'est dans ma galère que la go Antou m'a quitté…
Rêves d'enfance Hé Dieu j′ai fais quoi même. Dynamo é ééé, Dynamo o…
Savoir Thomas lui dit Les mots qui le feront grandir Thomas décrit …
Secret d'Afrique Zouzoi a léguer ho (zouzoi a léguer) A léguer zouzoi léguer …
Solidarité zo kin nin kin nin man zo(4) tout dépend ah oh…
SoumalÃ©lÃ© Soumalélé alélé souman soumalélé alélé souman soumalélé alél…
Souvenirs d'Anoumabo Réf: yé Anoumabo (x) Sp: histoire de souvenir d'anoumabo ah!…
Sweet Fanta Diallo Yeah, Magic System Hommage à Alpha Blondy Sweet sweet Fanta …
T'endors pas (Nimassa alaba katibiyé) Malgré la durée de la nuit Le jou…
Tango tango C'est pas d'............ On va dans la foule C'est pas d'...…
Taper dos Eh mon ami, où tu crois que tu es caché…
toi et le soleil Nous n'aurons plus jamais un jour de pluie Tous les…
Travailler Dans la vie Y'a pas de sous métiers Quelque soit ce que…
Tu es fou Magic System On va déconner Si tu es fou Nous aussi on est…
Un gaou a Oran For the ladies in the place, Raï'n'be Fever To all the…
Un Gaou a Paris (Remix House) Alélé ayé ho-Ayé ayé ayé ayé ayé 2X Mon rêve c'était…
Voyager Ah hé Magic System, Smarty Qui n'a pas envie de voyager? Wo…
Wanté Lead : wanté tèmin hè do Choeurs : tèmin do èh…
Ya Foye Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Oh, oh, oh, oh,…

Zouglou Dance Dit monsieur c'est quoi le zouglou dance? Héhé, le zouglou m…

The lyrics are frequently found in the comments by searching or by filtering for lyric videos

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Most interesting comments from YouTube:

@WingMaster562

41w↑82

@@intergalactic92 but the stone still follows the rules.

"What would be the the value of a human soul?" Apparently, making matter out of it. It still follows the rules of Equivalent Exchange.

@guitarlover1204

47w↑154

I honestly don't know if magic comes from a lack of understanding.

Yes, sometimes people call mundane things "magic" when they don't know the process behind it, but it betrays a lack of understanding of WHY people feel compelled to think something is breaking the laws of the known world.

It kinda takes for granted that people are just too thick to understand that ghosts aren't real and doesn't consider that ghosts may be a thing because they FEEL like they should be. We experience life through our own consciousness and cannot really conceptualize the thought of nonexistence; we can think about what it means, but we can't imagine it because we wouldn't be there, our brains aren't made for that kind of thought and THAT is where magic resides.

Pretty much no matter where you look, people have the concept of ghosts and spirits because they feel necessary for how we experience the world. It's not that people put God in the gaps of understanding it's that they put God in things that feel important to our experience.

The sunset is just light reflecting through the atmosphere but that's not how it feels, it feels big, and overwhelming, it feels ephimeral, and transitional, it's the precedence to night and all that it carries... and thus it is supernatural, because it goes beyond the natural.

Sure, the sea is just one big ol' pond, but it's so BIG it just has to be important somehow, it has to be the home of an angry god, his horses trampling the shore and the houses on it.

In that way, magic is not "technology we don't understand" but rather, what makes the world make sense.

The future is important to us, there HAS to be a way to see it, there HAS to be a prophecy somewhere telling us about it. If there isn't, then the world makes a little less sense.

@Deathnotefan97

44w↑198

I feel the opposite

I understand pretty well how a microwave oven works, and I use them often without thinking

But every time I stop and actually ponder it, it feels magical to me

I feel this way about a lot of technology, when you actually understand how it works on a fundamental level, especially if it's something complex, it becomes amazing and wondrous

Things are magical when you don't understand them, and they are magical when you understand them in great detail, it is only that area in between, when you know enough to accept it at face value but not enough to see the feats necessary for it to work, where the magic is lost

@Sonic62920

47w↑969

I think the best way for magic to feel both consistent and magical is to keep any particular type of magic consistent in its theming, but esoteric in its uses.

For example, take fire. Fire burns, yes, but it can also bring warmth and comfort, and in addition is a common metaphor for emotions and their intensity. All of these can fall under uses for fire.

Likewise, darkness. Mystery, concealment, and embodying the unknown. The dark is not just where monsters and evildoers lurk, it's the unknown, the birthplace of imagination, be it positive or negative.

Consistency in theming, broad in application.

And before anyone else comments, I have had absolutely ZERO exposure to Homestuck.

All comments from YouTube:

@_.-._.-Y0K0-._.-._

47w↑15.4K

I think the "It's not magic, it's waterbending" moment is another good example. Water bending is magical to Sokka, but reality to Katara.

@FrarmerFrank

47w↑1K

And the reason Ty-Li Iron finger technique is "disturbing" is she can temporarily break the body's chi's connection to the element's "spirit" which is felt physically and mentally which is why Katara was afraid of Ty-Li for a while

@Umlee-Kerymansrivarrwael

46w↑970

I misread that as "it's not magic, it's waterboarding" which is a little different, lol.

@01MEGABOB

46w↑656

@@Umlee-Kerymansrivarrwaelthat’s CIA magic. Lol.

@aqualust5016

46w↑244

The Force is magic to some but just a higher understanding of reality to others

@andrewramlall3560

46w↑294

@@Umlee-Kerymansrivarrwael "it's not waterboarding, they're enhanced interrogation techniques!"

56 More Replies...

@MeargleSchmeargle

34w↑574

My first immediate thought was how lightningbending in Avatar went from being an incredibly rare and powerful ability that only the most elite of firebenders can actually tap into in TLA to being a well-understood method of providing electricity to Republic City.

@doreew

27w↑33

I think it works because of electricity in our bodies. Same with metalbending. You just need to feel some electricity in your body to make more electricity and do lightning. If earthbenders can do it with little pieces of metal in earth, why lightingbendera can't?

@vladdracula8103

23w↑22

@@doreew I mean, firebenders make fire out of their own chi. I'm sure that it's just the same for lightning too, just a different technique of creating the energy from the chi.

@tubeguy4066

23w↑4

Yeah, because the writers of Legend of Korra had no originality and suck at their job

@iliketea9122

23w↑11

@@tubeguy4066 what are you basing that on?

@doreew

23w↑21

@@tubeguy4066 thousands year ago people don't know math or physics but now we do. Why firebenders can't learn lightning?

5 More Replies...

@diegovera1353

32w↑165

I love witch hat Atelier cause even though the magic is explained and has a very grounded system, it still feels magical. I think it’s due to how magic is also an allegory to art, or at least the author could relate it to art, and you can see how magical it feels through its method and crafting, it’s treated like an art, not just a science

@sidneyrobinson18

30w↑8

It feels magically because some pretty wild shit goes on and you're left wondering "now what in the hell would they've had to drawn to make that happen?"

@jeweljules474

18w↑2

Yeah this reply is late but I also wanna mention how the MC also helps us feel the magical wonder despite the system☺️ her reactions are kinda infectious

@hansolobutimdead

12w↑2

Man I gotta read this manga but I just have so much in my backlog

@thecluckster3908

42w↑3.4K

This is kinda why I love adventure times magic, it just does. It never gets explained, heck it even gets an entire episode dedicated to how there’s no science behind it, it’s great.

@ussinussinongawd516

42w↑90

i mean there is a hard elemental system in AT

@thecluckster3908

42w↑324

@@ussinussinongawd516 yeah but that’s like the one exception, and it’s still sort of vague cause it’s just “you’re born as one of the four elements and you can create a supply of that element, the end.” Not like a super in depth system.

@InvaderZim897

42w↑138

Which episode do you mean? I’m thinking of the one in which Princess Bubblegum keeps calling out how different “spells” work and demanding information from the vendor before buying a potion, etc, ultimately saying wizards are ridiculous and only call their craft magic because they don’t really know what they’re doing.

@dsbs96

41w↑168

I find this comment funny because I was about to say how Adventure Time does... the opposite. Well, that is from Princess Bubblegum perspective, as she literally explains this very video in one episode. She says that magic is just what lazy people call science. And even when Jake the "magic" dog asks her what he is and how he can do what he does, she says "you're a mutant" which he can't refute. xD

@thecluckster3908

41w↑13

@@InvaderZim897 yeah that episode

38 More Replies...

@funnyvalentinesfibonaccisp9439

41w↑152

i like to refer to horror whenever i write fantasy because i enjoy it when something supernatural is minimally explained. once the horror is understood, it can lose its fear factor, just like magic can lose its sense of wonder if it’s overexplained or has convoluted mechanics.

@rodgerakiki2207

27w↑3

Jujutsu Kaisen sweating bullets right now

@fabiosilva9637

27w↑2

Same as mystery, which is a cousin tone to sense of wonder.

@canisarcani

25w

and yet, logically, it is inevitable that in any world in which magic as presented in most fantasy works of fiction exists: the inhabitants WILL attempt to understand it. BECAUSE of that fact that for magic to work it would have to be woven into the very fabric of their universe it would HAVE to logically follow a set of rules. the conceptual idea of the sense of magical wonderment from discovering something new that you dont understand is nice and all.. but trying to make an an etire world that runs off of that wouldnt make a lot of sense long term. 😅

@migrak15

23w↑2

Nah I would say is the opposite, you lose interest when it's poorly explained or you know no information about it.

@Mialikesthings

16w↑5

@@rodgerakiki2207JJK has a power system not a magic one.

4 More Replies...

@dmgroberts5471

42w↑1.6K

Galadriel can kinda break your mind if you start thinking about how old she is. She has literally met the entities that shaped the world, she personally witnessed the first Sunrise, she's known Elrond since he was a child...I mean, she's older than Men and Dwarves existing.

@skyrimguy217

42w↑107

Yes with Men, no with Dwarves; the Dwarves already had built cities under the blue mountains as the Eldar were crossing Ered Luin into Beleriand during their journey west.

@skyrimguy217

42w↑55

Which was before the birth of Galadriel, as she was born in Valinor.

@dmgroberts5471

42w↑107

@@skyrimguy217 Ok, so she's slightly younger than Durin I. "Born during Durin I's lifetime" is still an impressive marker of ancientness.

@Violaphobia

41w↑49

Just don’t watch Rings of Power 😅

@TurtleTime26

41w↑56

That's as mind blowing as knowing the real-life Appalachian mountains are older than the existence of bones.

7 More Replies...

@IronDino

47w↑12.9K

To quote Clarke, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
To quote Niven, "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
And to quote Pratchett, "It doesn't stop being magic just because you know how it works."

@mitchellzollinger1100

47w↑532

Who among us apply this logic to smart phones?

@seriousmaran9414

47w↑505

@Mitchell Zollinger my father used to apply this to a chess program. To him it was intelligent, to me it was dumb but could beat you with knowing the moves.

@rikospostmodernlife

47w↑670

The Pratchett quote reminds me of a House m.d. chapter where he treats a stage magician. The magician is a true believer in the art –something along the line of "reality is misery and only deceit is wonderful"– and has a discusion with House; House ends the discusion saying something like "if revealing the trick destroys it's marvel, maybe it wasn't marvelous to begin with"

@Reddotzebra

47w↑521

I guess the only one missing is "It doesn't stop being technology because you don't know how it works."

@RamBam3000

47w↑288

And to quote Benford: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."

158 More Replies...

@josephmichael162

31w↑95

In a beautiful moment I had in my D&D campaign, I pulled a REALLY cool quote. "Casting a spell is easy. Creating magic is difficult because magic happens when the known meets the unknown."

@Tyranid_Hive_Mind

15w↑1

"Remember my sons, vocal components can be whatever you want."

@Tyranid_Hive_Mind

15w↑2

Your quote is actually pretty cool though

@tessawidenhofer

41w↑235

The novel I’m currently writing has two separate systems of magic- a music based hard magic system used by the sirens and a soft emotion driven one that’s more similar to the force in early Star Wars. I’m finding that it’s really nice to get to have the best of both worlds so that different characters end up with different experiences with magic entirely and ensuring there’s always an unpredictable element to the world.

@asgacc8789

33w↑2

Sounds refreshing

@MrRenanHappy

27w

Both literally seem to be hard magic. You just explained it is ruled by emotion.

@asgacc8789

27w↑8

@@MrRenanHappy maybe definition of soft magic is different for different people. For me,(and probably original commenter) soft magic is when the rules for the magic is not set in stone and is often vague. In this case might mean that getting angry or sad doesnt dictate what will happen (earthquake, fire, levitation) but only says that something magical might happen, whatever it might be. There's also no guarantee any magic will happen, hence why its... soft magic

@tessawidenhofer

27w↑4

@@asgacc8789 yes, exactly this. The hard magic system based on music is very much like (arpeggios+triplets)120 bpm= 6 thrown bolts of fire whereas the emotions one is simply that strong emotion can create a magical effect that’s related to the emotion (so like if you miss your best friend who’s in Paris you might be able to send a magical message or teleport there but you also might just summon a baguette) and there aren’t rules you can learn to make that unpredictability go away you can just learn to focus it and maybe to prevent yourself from casting on accident.

@msf2000

25w↑3

Cool! I want to see more systems based on sounds like the dwemeri Tonal Architecture from elder scrolls series

1 More Replies...

@skynotaname2229

42w↑825

I think age/experience of the reader is a huge factor in this. I noticed that as an adult, I'm not able to simply read a story about a boy with magic without expecting the book to explain how it functions. I've also read a whole lot of fantasy books now, for better or worse I've become more picky and harder to please.

@SendarSlayer

42w↑41

I think it depends on how its being used. I recently started reading some Battletech fiction and there's a moment of magic where a character makes his mech just vanish from sensors. This is expressly something the pilot is doing, not a piece of technology, and can be learned by others through a form of enlightenment. It is Never explained, and that's what I liked about it. It was just this piece of magic that was wholly unexplainable, and you just had to accept it was a thing. If they explained it with brain waves or manipulating something with the controls of the 'Mech I would've hated it.

@skynotaname2229

42w↑14

@@SendarSlayer That sounds exactly the the "serene state of mind" characters get in a Gundam anime. Interesting.

@darthfastball1150

41w↑31

I find myself questioning magic systems in shows as an adult because I want to think about hypotheticals, try to solve problems the characters are facing on my own, and make predictions. Magic systems that feel like they’re missing some clear definitions have made watching some shows impossible because of how frustrating it can be to watch characters struggle with a problem because the writers forgot that they have way more tools than the one tool that they wanted the characters to use

@themetamancer7402

41w↑14

Interesting, I'm exactly the opposite: systems, rules, and laws get boring really fast for me, but mysterious, omitted logic and reality denying events is what I love most

@dylanb2990

41w↑12

@@SendarSlayerI would hate that personally, cheapens the story if the character can just suddenly teleport out of danger with no explanation how.

11 More Replies...

@pizzamozzarella5781

30w↑17

At first chemistry lesson the teacher (btw she was my favourite teacher, very nice and her lessons were always interesting) showed the class few simple experiments. Even if it was basic chemistry - barium chloride + sulfuric acid, both clear liquids, but when she pours one to another there's white out of nowhere. Same with phenolphthalein and alkali, two clear liquids made beautiful crimson colour when mixed together. Back then i didn't know nothing about that liquids and how they work together, it was like magic, even if it's evident to me now how chemical reactions working.
And my physics teacher always said "if you didn't learn about science, everything would be magical"

(Also my english is not very fluent sorry about mistakes)

@Supadurp

42w↑769

I've tried to make a magic system as complex and interesting as Brandon Sanderson's but he truly has a gift for that stuff. Amazing writer, I love the mistborn series.

@lostboy8084

41w↑23

I tried to read his books but I always get a migraine after 1 to 1 and a half chapters. It is not like it's hard to read or anything like that and no other books have given me migraines when I read them. I tried different books he has written and it always happens. I wanted to read the Wheel of time he finished for Robert Jordan but I get a migraine every now and then also making it very difficult to enjoy. Great writer I am sure but gives me a headache

@malcolmfletcher2659

41w↑10

@@lostboy8084 Listen to the audiobooks then. It's 100%, 1000% worth it

@galenschultz3239

41w↑4

@@lostboy8084Sanderson only co-wrote the last three. Some of that writing is obviously his (Mat povs) but most of it is difficult to tell. Some of it IS Jordan's and besides the final scene which was explicitly reported as his, I'd challenge you to tell me when it's Brandon writing and when it's Robert.

@Darth_Xionn

32w↑10

Making full magic systems like he does is definitely very tough.

@alexber8838

32w↑4

Just do it, its very easy:
Take a power concept, make a table-diagram with a docen variants of it, and establish half the rules as a guide.
Write your story, bending the rules to your convenience.
Dont forget to justify everything retroactively, as if it wasn't all invent bullshit... and done.

14 More Replies...

@ImAmABot

44w↑2.1K

It's why I love Fullmetal Alchemist, from it's start, it's just defined as another system of science, not magic, so it makes the world feel so much more relatable imo

@WingMaster562

42w↑117

Hard magic systems like that are awesome.

@intergalactic92

42w↑71

And then it’s revealed you can break the rules if you can use the power of a philosopher's stone. Thus making it magical again.

@razzaqinurradithyas4523

42w↑154

@@intergalactic92um actually, the philosopher stone consists of several sacrificed human souls.

So i think the rule of equivalent exchange ( the magic of FMAB ) its not broken but bypassed by sacrifacing human souls exchanged for power. What is a human souls if not valuable

@benitocamela174

42w↑3

@@intergalactic92 it's always magic lol

@WingMaster562

41w↑82

@@intergalactic92 but the stone still follows the rules.

"What would be the the value of a human soul?" Apparently, making matter out of it. It still follows the rules of Equivalent Exchange.

19 More Replies...

@christinabrock2893

36w↑17

Thank you! So many people who write and teach about worldbuilding talk like hard magic is somehow obviously better because it "makes more sense," but I've always preferred soft magic because, to me, NOT "making sense" in that way actually makes my experience of the fantasy world much more magical. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so!

@LoneWolf20213

40w↑17

I like a mix of both, magic that can be used with predictable outcomes, and magic that is dangerous and forbidden because it's unpredictable and unstable, that would make thing's more interesting, especially when in practice

@user-mz1fe3yj7e

42w↑70

This is why I love how magic works in the world of the witcher, you get a sense that there's some fundamentals to it, but we never really learn those, and even still, there are stuff like curses which work very differently from spell casting, and even geralt struggles with figuring them out

@despacitojones5297

41w↑44

I think that Witch Hat Atteliere has a really fun balence of these two: Coco, a novice to magic and its society, acts as the audience surrogate so charmingly. To her, the systemised magic of the world she lives in is a perpetually unfolding wonder of new mechanics extrapolated from the old ones. For an earlier example: magic is written through runes and inks. She constantly experiences new ways the mages in the world hide their runes under the guise of 'magic'.

@sidneyrobinson18

30w↑1

I looove witch hat. Especially when you see more complicated magic later on and since you know how the fundamentals work, it's super fun trying to figure out how they could've gotten those specific effects going. It's got hard magic rules with nearly limitless potential

@TheBearOfSpades

43w↑42

I haven't felt genuine draw to magic since I recently rewatched Howl Moving Castle. The last time I watched it was close to a decade ago when I was a child. It truly felt magical and spontaneous, it felt like there was rules in the world, but still that it was unknown to me as the viewer, and it kept that spark throughout.

@Violaphobia

41w↑10

Miyazaki nails that sense of wonder in most of his works imo

@lukewood7341

29w↑1

I felt the same way watching Arietty a few years ago

@starblade8450

47w↑1.7K

Full Metal Alchemist embraces this video's message pretty well I feel.
Alchemy is just a form of science, no matter how magical it seems to the uninitiated. When Ed and Al were in Reole, watching Father Cornello perform miracles for a crowd, they saw alchemy that broke the rules, theorizing that it was done with a Philosopher's Stone, while the crowd saw divine will of their god.

@matthhiasbrownanonionchopp3471

47w↑83

I never had a time in FMA when I felt alchemy wasn't magic

@christianlangdon3766

47w↑146

@matthhiasbrownanonionchopp3471 yea even the characters start to address this with the knowledge of how alchemy tends to screw with the perception of those who use it. Kimbly being of notable example. Becouse the knowledge of the system doesn't take away the cost of the system itself. One can't unlearn the truth.

@batmeme9349

47w↑17

Read witch hat atelier, it has one of the best magic systems by far

@seraf8297

46w↑105

FMA was great because it married both soft and hard magic. It was firm and structured on the surface, but when you broke past that and learned about the nature of alchemy itself, it became softer and more esoteric. Equivalent exchange, or even the implication of it is fine and all, and you see it working 95% of the time, but when it breaks down because you're talking to the locus of alchemy itself and you have to convince it that something is equivalent? Well all the rules basically go out the window.

@PhoenicopterusR

46w↑19

@seraf8297 so what you're saying is that alchemy really runs on a bartering system.

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@laurentroland6847

41w↑62

This is just my personal read on a story, but I think it fits really well with the theme of this video. To most characters in the Lord of the Rings, magic is, well, magical. Mysterious, impossible to categorize or define, incapable of being reproduced in its effects and incomprehensible in its means. Of course, LotR does actually have a soft magic system of sorts primarily based on authority, but the specifics are unknown. One of the most recognizable villains, Saruman, was a student of the Quasi-god of craftsmanship and described as being deeply fascinated in the lore and arcane aspects of the world, being obsessed with studying them. In my opinion, it was part of this futile attempt at understanding and classifying a free flowing, almost mythological world which led to him objectifying nature and human life, as they were just lesser fools who knew not of the secrets of Arda as he did, and were merely useful as numbers, pawns in his grand design. A similar thing could be said of Sauron, who also elevated himself to the comprehension of a world which was only meant to be fully understood by its Creator.

@Duiker36

40w↑1

Sauron was also a Maia of Aule, and yes, what caused hsi fall was basically looking at the imperfection and foibles of mortals and going, "If I could just control all of them, they'd stop being bad."

@MaxFerney

36w↑9

From the perspective of a software engineer, I feel what I do is magic sometimes in of itself. there are more complex things that I still percieve as wizardry (like PLC).

The approach you describe here in the video is one that I've felt myself for years, and I appreciate that you have created this video. Thank you

@hansontan4968

43w↑65

One example I would think fits this video is the Fate series from TypeMoon. You may think magecraft and magic is the same but in that world, it is two different applications. Magecraft is what human mages are capable of, stemming from mysteries and myths of the ancient. Magic is miracles, ones that cannot be explained, the system of its magic is there is no system for that branch because it is the root of the original. I love how they also use concepts to perform magecraft and not the basic elements.

@manumudgal4988

36w

Magic is real s**t while magecraft is trash copy.

@lolproo

27w

Well, the problem is, as far as I know, magic only cannot be understand for normal ppl. I know that the root is a thing that not even superior beings to human in fate can't understand, and in fact every single word to describe that true nature of the root will be always wrong and describing other thing. Again, idk if i'm wrong but just saying

@j-motions9894

40w↑2

My and my friend had a discussion about the line between “science” and “magic” and my like starting point was that if magic was real it wouldn’t be magic, it would be science. Our consensus ig was that if we can fully explain something and how and why it works it’s “science”, but if we don’t know the how or the why it works but simply that it “does” then it is magic.” Something we argued was that what about the beginning of the universe, we don’t truly know how or why but rather that it happened and he said then it might as well be magic (within the space of topic) but if we could make fire out of thin air with our hands but be able to perfectly explain it then it would be science.
I haven’t thought of that convo in a while and this video just happened to remind me of it and I appreciate that

@krabkake3544

43w↑122

This actually made me rethink how magic works in my story, the reason I like fantasy so much is because of how removed it is from reality. By deciding on hard rules for my magic system I removed what made things fantasy and made it just reality with a few differences. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s not what I want and I didn’t realize it

@rainedans8684

42w↑9

I don't know if this'll help, but personally I like to emphasize that the magic system that I'd made is just an concept. Just humans trying to comprehend and classify Mother Nature's blessing.

That is also why I like to insert a miscellaneous category in it too, like Ancient Magic (Used but not understood completely) or Dragon/Etc Magic (Magic used by sentient beings in an incomprehensible language). Heck I'll even put in Black Magic as a label the Government use for forbidden magic (whether for good or evil, we'll see) just for creativity

@brs121094

42w↑12

I had a similar experience with my own story. My solution was to expand on the possibilities of what could be done, while hiding how they were done unless the reader needed to know (or if they went looking for answers themselves), which gave me more creative ideas to work with while letting certain aspects of it stay magical. Sure I wrote down the physics of how "magic" cools or heats the molecules in the air to create ice or fire, but also planets are alive and emotions have their own magical properties somewhat.

I guess one way to look at it is that there can be tiers of magic in your story. There's basic magic that wizards spent their whole lives studying and solving to a point where it's more of a science, there's mysterious fairy-tale magic that exists in the dreams of children (the power of friendship is a common example), and there's divine or cosmic magic that holds the universe together and can do just about anything to break reality to create an "impossible" obstacle.

@toggerz7487

42w↑2

You could have two magic systems. One for the hard rules stuff, and one for the 'impossible' stuff.

@iota-09

42w↑1

Pretty much what everybody else said, there's also stuff we cannot figure out irl after all but that maybe we will one day: "what was the universe like before the big bang? How did it actually happen? What happens to consciousness after death?" Things that, perhaps, as beings living in a 4d world or something like that we might actually grasp, but as things stand now? They might as well be magic, same goes for dreams for example, which we only barely are able to explain scientifically.

Find stuff like that for your magic systems, things that might make sense, but that ultimately have no way to be explained due to their very nature as magical and beyond comprehension.

You becoming a squid at the end of a certain game is one such example: it makes no sense, everything else to an extent does... But that's exactly the point, and eventually you just accept it for what it is: incomprehensible.
(It's obviously much deeper than that in that case but try as you might, you will mot find an explanation to HOW it happened, only on why or on what it means)

@BlazeMakesGames

47w↑2.6K

Yeah the irony of a great magic system is that if they're written well enough, the mere notion of even calling it magic feels weird. Bending in Avatar the Last Airbender is probably one of the best examples of this. It feels weird to even call Bending a magic system because of how well understood its rules and limitations are and well incorporated it is into the world. Everything about it is so well realized that it just feels natural like the laws of physics. I think they even literally call this out in the first episode with Sokka calling Katara's bending "Magic" and her scoffing at the idea.

And I mean it makes sense. We only call things magic or miracles in the real world because of that gap in understanding like you said. Whereas if we existed in a world where people could just learn to levitate rocks with their mind, and we understood the process behind that, then we would almost certainly classify it and understand it more thoroughly and it wouldn't be supernatural anymore. It would be merely... natural. Just like how at one point people may have thought Magnets to be magical, but even if they didn't know the exact reasons why they worked the way they did, the fact that their effects were consistent and understandable was enough for us to learn how to exploit them and use their effects to our advantage, and thus they became a tool that we no longer think of as magic.

@guitarlover1204

47w↑154

@Secret_Moon

47w↑50

So it's not really about the understanding of the readers, but more about the understanding of the characters in their world setting.

@eeveeofalltrades4780

47w↑37

All science is magic if you don't understand it. Something is only magic if it requires going against the natural laws of physics in the respective universe.

@muntu1221

47w↑101

@@guitarlover1204 To add to your point that everybody is just going to enthusiastically look past, unfortunately, magicians in the past were all seen at knowledgeable people. Whether they got it from study, arcane intuition, gifts from gods, or bought them from demons. They were so seen as applying some rules of reality that are a little quirkier than the mundane. Heck, magic was often just seen as a part of life for many. Everybody needed wards against evil spirits whether they were a magician or not. Demons, faeries, monsters, djinn? Those are real things to people. Those explained disease, missing children, that neighbor you hated getting money while your crops fail.

And it wasn't just because they broke the laws of physics. There was literally always someone who would have all the information on how these creatures worked. Everybody's grandma had the remedy to their powers or just the power to detect them. Magic quite literally was a part of everyday life for countless people, even today.

@ZigealFaust

47w↑21

That's why stories like Hunter X Hunter, Naruto, One Peice and Yu Yu Hakusho do so well, they know better than to just call things magic and make sure that its versitile enough that the same "spell" can be extremely different depending on its user.

44 More Replies...

@muddle3017

41w↑12

You know what's really magic? The animation, it just looks so fresh and new, I love it!

@Leonlion0305

34w↑3

Really love this video, really helped me rethink a lot about anime. A Certain Magical Index and The Ancient Magus' Bride specifically.

Index has both traditional Magicians and Esper. Esper originate their power from scientific experiments/development where everyone has a unique power and level. On the other hand, although magic is explained as a separate rule it is viewed by the magicians as "a method to achieve the talented can naturally do" (not the exact quote, but IIRC that was the idea). Unlike the common magic system, Magical Index uses references from religions, folklore, or epics to structure out a method to produce a supernatural occurrence (e.g. conjure fire) that can be used by anyone. It is not specifically made for the naturally talented (like Esper) so Espers who use them might die and even magicians overuse them can fry their brain.
It is simultaneous less structured (not simple like fire, water, wind, and earth) but also more structured (every magic has a source reference). This magic system is still very magical, at least much more magical than regular common elemental magic systems.

As for Ancient Magus' Bride, they differentiate between a Mahou (Magic) and Majutsu (Alchemy*). Mahou is borrowing the power of faes, spirits, ghosts, or demons to affect the law of nature. Majutsu is a science that study on turning one's internal energy to mana and produce similar results that magic would. I am not sure why the English translation is Alchemy but I guess there isn't an equivalent word for it in English.
Mahou is the traditional way, having to communicate and, at some point, negotiate with supernatural beings in order to do what a mage wants. It is more powerful than Majutsu but also very talent dependent. On the other hand, Majutsu does not need to interact with supernatural beings, less powerful, but not as talent dependent. Mahou is very magical in the sense that it lacks a lot of the rules (mainly just negotiation and will) in this series. It really captures the magic of "Magic" (ha).

@kektimus

43w↑6

Sometimes in games I get the "feeling of magic", and I think it has to do with mastering something that doesn't want to be mastered. Either it's deliberately hard or attempting to be deliberately impossible. One of the strongest and most long lived "feelings of magic" I got in a game was when learning (on my own) to climb geometry in World of Warcraft. Climbing Mount Hyjal long before it was actually a playable area, climbing outside lands and finding strange WIP areas or just huge empty spaces. I found and mastered a hidden power that had no tutorial, no interface, no intention of even existing. I have no idea of how to implement something like that, as it would require intent, obviously.

@Jordi1883

40w↑3

This reminds me of this quote from Loki in a comic from Marvel: Magic is taking a thought and making it real. Taking a lie and making it the truth. Telling a story to the universe so utterly, cosmically perfect that for a single, shining moment... the world believes a man can fly.

@NecroticFarron

42w↑5

I have practiced Magic system building for quite a while thanks to inspirations like FMA and Brandon Sanderson. The more intuitive and frankly worldbuilding-harmonious method I've been drawn to is to make it so that whilst the uses and patterns of casting magic are somewhat steadily agreed upon, most people can only rely on belief or rational deduction for where it originated. It's quite common practice and study for multiple fields and paradigms to debate and challenge one another, and the closer one may get to the truth, the less believable and more eldritch it appears. Bending the laws of reality is tricky, but can be obtained through practice. Creating and breaking laws is far more complicated, and it seems there are multiple ways in which a law can be broken.

@jessicajayes8326

47w↑972

To the magician, the audience's reaction is magic. The misdirection and surprise is the magic. I know this all too well. My dad is a magician, so was my mother's father.

@NobodyTelevision

47w↑110

Damn, the chosen one's just straight up hanging around in Tale Foundry's comment section

@luciel7751

47w↑27

@@NobodyTelevision I think they're talking about stage magic XD

@FriendlyGhost-rf7tq

47w↑5

Magick is about unknown once you explain it is stopes to be magick

@seanmcfadden3712

47w↑32

I was coming here to share that same sentiment.

On a related note, I studied biology at University, I even have a BSc in the subject, but I still see life as magic. I may know about all the technical things that allow it to be, but being there for the birth of a new life is witnessing magic. I may know that there are ways of saving lives of creatures on the edge of death, but when we pull it off, that's magic. Seeing something that's grown up while remembering how small it once was, magic again. Magic is where you find it.

@adroitws1367

47w

I'm sorry to tell you but your ancestor might be a WITCH!

12 More Replies...

@JoanPeris

26w

I haven't seen much talk about Tolkien's Mythopoeia, where, aside from various interesting topics, he explores the idea of fantasy and how the more you try to describe it, to capture it, the faster it will go away. It was very inspiring, and I think it connects strongly with this video.

Walking through the world of fantasy is hard. Especially the older you become and the more knowledge you gather. However, it's still very possible! Indeed, I find it extremely rewarding when I'm able to walk around in the world of fantasy. But to enjoy it, I must behave properly by not judging or thinking more than necessary so it doesn't run away.

And after it, like after a dream, trying to explain what you perceived there with accurate descriptions is both pointless and disrespectful. No words can ever precisely describe what lies in the world of fantasy. So beware if you try and do your best to use enough words and expressions, and let fantasy fill the rest.

Great video, as always!

@YugenCh.

23w↑1

Wow, this video is truly mesmerizing! The art is absolutely stunning, and the storytelling is on point. It's fascinating how, if you know what happens, it feels more like a 'trick' than 'magic.' It makes me think about how magic often represents a gap in our understanding, and the most powerful magic happens when we accept that it cannot be explained. This piece really captures the essence of that mystery and wonder. Great job!

@mawinstallation6626

43w↑40

I liked The Owl House for having one of its most important plot points be about how a Magic System is extremely reductive, flawed and oppresive (it was imposed by a human over the magic users, the witches, to make matters worse) so it's actively fought against, until it is eradicated and all witches are free to practice their magic without labels. So they live without a system because it repressed their nature.

@Hypershell

33w↑2

I've had this same discussion recently about what it means to "forbid magic" as a matter of religious or moral code. "Magic" is ultimately an abstract term used to describe things we don't fully understand (on a foundational, "rational reality" level; this video does an excellent job of explaining that merely lacking expertise is not the same thing). Nobody in the "Fullmetal Alchemist" series would describe alchemy as magic, because alchemy has clearly defined rules with fixed outcomes, accepted within their reality. Even non-Alchemists who are at least familiar with the concept. However, they also have their own version of the "don't mess with what you don't understand" tenant in their forbidding the use of alchemy to manipulate human souls rather than simply matter.

Or to put it another way, we in the modern world know that airplanes are not magical, but anyone who believes that they are, shouldn't be messing with the wings of the aircraft. It's certainly true that experimentation is necessary to expand our knowledge, but we have to understand that the thing we are experimenting with is rational, has specific outcomes that are expected, has other outcomes that are likely if things go wrong, and therefore allow us to predict what safeguards we must realistically put in place. "Magic" does not allow for any of that.

@JonaxII

42w↑6

I love the Name of the Wind for having two magic systems, a hard one for my inner nerd who wants systems and rules and mechanics, and a soft one for my inner child who just wants to see fantastical magic.

@maxschw.5239

31w

I love the book for so many different things, but that is certainly one of them.

@Envy_May

44w↑531

personally, i think what makes things feel "magical" is when the system is built around ideas/concepts/meaning instead of mechanics/physics/abilities. they need to function on a sort of poetic/dreamlike logic, but not in a way that shows the hand of the author like "just do whatever you want idk it doesn't matter"

@Dunmerdog

41w↑19

This is why I quite like the magic in ASOIAF. Its practitioners each know only a sliver of its true extent and every miracle represents a massive change in the setting, just as it is for the people who witness it.

@qq-wy7zs

41w↑14

The first and second books of the Wheel of time do this very well. Later in the series it gets more systemized but in the beginning we and the main characters don't know what's going on with the magic.

Example: At one point a character is leading a charge into battle but then slowly finds the world around him fading into fog until both forces disappear from sight but he can still "feel" them sorta. He then has a swordfight with his enemy's leader in this fog world which somehow corresponds to how the fight below is going. If one of them lands a strike, their army below takes a blow from the other as well. It makes a wierd sort of sense but there is no concept of "why." Its just how the magic works...

@devilishreader9993

40w↑3

So what would happen in group magic where half the group thinks fireball and the other half thinks fire bolt. Would it be totally unexplainable? Would it activate both at weaker levels? Or would it just fail? Genuinely curious.

@Dexuz

35w↑8

That second logic you propose still has its problems though, it's basically the type of "magic" used in battle animes, where your "feelings" gives you power as the power itself comes from the soul/mind/willpower/whatever, so ultimately it can devolve into a "just do whatever you want" because if a certain character truly feels what he or she can do, then it happens because the very logic of the magic system allows it to happen.

@allentayoto7387

24w↑2

The Irregular in magic highschool immediately popped up into my mind. It's a tricky anime/light novel series that somewhat explores what it'd be like if Science becomes an integral part of using magic. Magic certainly exists, there are even some characters who use an "older method" of casting magic such as using charms and things. But, it does stop feeling like magic once they start explaining how the magic works in theory. They use terminologies that makes the magic confined in the laws of physics, with the only magical thing being that "only magicians can draw from what allows these phenomena to occur". It's certainly an amazing series with cool magics but really, it feels more like a science-fiction most of the time than this fantasy magic story.

@AspenFrostt

26w

ok this is my first video ive seen from you and HOLY HELL THAT INTRO ANIMATION WAS SO BEAUTIFUL. i was already on board with the visuals going in, easily conveying ideas and mannnn that intro was just amazing

@Luke0Maker

43w↑2

Tbh one oh my favorite ways to explain magic was in "Akashic Record of Bastard Magic Instructor" , yes, it had a system, but it was all about how to get free from the system and trying new things, like casting a spell with 2 words, and seeing the effect of the spell if you make it more phrases, remove a part of it or even say in a totally different way.

@eiliscantsleep

36w↑6

For me the soft vs hard thing boils down to: is magic art or science primarily? They overlap (craft) by necessity, but you prioritise one based off your aims in telling the story/personal taste. I also think soft magic tends to work best when built as a way to reinforce the themes of the story- in discworld, a series about taking the mundane, stupid, yet absurd bits of the world and pointing out the humanity behind them, we have magic that is literally stated to being "how we expect the world to work based off story tropes"- which is intentionally a big string of plot holes, but one the reader, who understands fundamentally this is a story, follows the logic of. Then you have Mistworld, which is more plot driven, where magic is literally a plot mechanic- its a story about finding out the rules and limits of the magic basically. It says very little about the themes, but drives the story. Im always gonna prefer soft magic to hard, but I find the themes of a story more intresting then the plot, and understand the reverse perspective

@CarissaNomadic

43w

i've been meaning to watch this video from my recommends. Glad that I finally listened to YT pointing me to your channel. Great video :)

@kaizo4217

47w↑670

Let me just say, the animation at the beginning of your robot character grabbing that book and opening it is one of the smoothest things I've ever seen, and your voice is so soft, i bet if you read a sad story id be 10x more likely to cry to it

@kaizo4217

47w↑13

Yep, i teared up when you started explaining the perspective of the kid for the rabbit,..it made me think of my childhood, you have what it takes sir

@sourdface4709

47w↑6

That was a really good animation. I wasn't expecting it and was pleased to see it.

@hayond656

47w↑6

It gives off a Certain vibe I don't know what it's called but I really like it

@skamosthedestroyerofworlds

47w↑1

Although I still miss the old intro, i completely agree.

@Blobby90

29w↑9

Eragon's magic system is to me, the gold standard. It has heavy costs that discourages beginner mages from attempting dangerous experiments because if you cast a spell then you can't stop it midway. You need both an understanding of the Elvish language, the language that magic is spoken in, and an incredible understanding of how the world works aka, Science. Eragon himself almost dies trying to turn sand into drinkable water.

@SkyMurphy77

17w↑1

As an eragon fan, I totally agree.

@erilulubelle

41w↑30

Mercy: I refuse to believe that your healing is magical.
Zenyatta: What seems like magic is sometimes science we don't yet understand.
Mercy: Exactly! I must learn how it works!

@bitnewt

42w↑1

This is a fascinating topic, but I'd love to hear more tips on how to balance world building magic to make enough sense to not feel contrived (like pulling out exactly what the characters needed at the right time, or being a series of "and then this happened" events) but also seem inexplicable enough to be mysterious and intriguing to the reader. Maybe it means planning things behind the scenes but telling the reader as little as possible (or makes sense for the point of view to be able to perceive or understand) about it in descriptions and exposition - which can be really hard after spending a lot of time and effort working out all of those clever details!

@eiliscantsleep

36w↑1

I think a lot of the time, it comes down to why you want to write fantasy and what your book is trying to achieve. Is magic a plot mechanic primarily, or is it a theme mechanic? Your story should have both, but how you balance it is up to you. I think hard magic is more about the plot- the hard magic allomancy in mistborn is functionally irrelevant to the themes of the story- but it works perfectly as a mechanic for the plot, which is largely about understanding and reshaping the world, to play out. On the other end of the scale you have something like American Gods- the super soft magic system works perfectly for the themes of cultures and stories being things that are fluid and evolving, but the plot is basically just a big road trip with scheming gods- theme takes precedence. Both books are using a very strong internal logic, buts it's a diffrent logic (like organising your bookshelf alphabetically vs by colour both make sense, but personal taste will cause you to prefer one.)

@lowellcrook8092

28w↑1

This is this guy's first video I've watched. He has a relaxing voice and the video was very good. I look forward to more.

@elbdot

42w

I was very excited to see this video in my recommendations because I am absolutely OBSESSED with magic systems in media and their, as you mentioned, lack of magic. I'm always searching for games and movies that manage to make their magic actually FEEL magical and figuring out what makes it work and what doesn't
Interestingly enough I found that magic in its mystery still requires some sort of rules within the worldbuilding to feel truly magical, which sounds like a paradox in of itself.
But magic quickly loses its value and becomes boring to the audience if there are no limitations to it. If you for example are able to do anything with it on a whim, shrinking people, shape-shifting, creating objects and creatures out of thin air - not to mention solving every possible problem the protagonist might be facing - then it falls flat and loses all its meaning due to a lack of rules and limitations.
The magic lies in there still being a system, but one that is beyond our comprehension.
It can be powerful, yes, world-destroying even. But can everyone achieve it? Is it hard to take a hold of? Does it have a conscious on its own?
It is a delicate balance of knowing something and nothing at all at the same time, creating a magic that feels REAL within its own world while still being otherworldly. The worldbuilding plays a huge role in my opinion if the magic ends up feeling convincing. Establishing the role of the magic, how it is intertwined with the world while still feeling Alien, ceating guidelines, limits, traits, while still keeping a sense of mystery, having a vague idea of what it is capable of or how it works without ever fully understanding the why and how - All of this is incredibly hard to balance, which is why there's only a handful of movies or games I'd be able to think of off the top of my head, that have a convincing sense of magic.
But it's because of this complexity and difficulty that it is no doubt one of my favorite topics to discuss as an Author, who herself keeps fighting and struggling to bring a convincing sense of magic and enchantment to her books about dragons the size of a bug.
Love the discussion this video provides!

@Deathnotefan97

44w↑198

@asgacc8789

33w↑9

That is awesome

@danielmittsjr.8963

32w↑20

Gravity is pure magic. How does it work? Nobody really even knows. Waves, maybe? We just generally know how it works and go from there without any true understanding the underlying source.

@ceiii7190

30w↑7

thats is an emotion called awe

@uhlan30

30w↑2

Ironically one of the books that's felt the most magical to me is a Sanderson book--The Way of Kings. In later Stromlight books, the hard magic of the world is explained, but unlike in Mistborn, we're given time in the first book to experience the magic without really knowing anything about how it works first. Watching Kaladin inexplicably develop superhuman abilities, Shallan seeing weird creatures with cryptic symbols for heads, and Dalinar having visions of the distant past, all while having no idea what's going on really fills you with a sense of wonder that can't really be replicated once you get deeper into the series and all of these things start to be explained.

@specialknees6798

29w

Yeah Sanderson got a lot better at making hard magic feel magical after mistborn, which felt very cool, but not especially magical. It was so cool to just see shit start happening to Kaladin out of nowhere while we're just given vague clues about the way it works in this world. We can guess that Syl is somehow involved, that shardblades had something to do with the knights radiant who were this mysterious order of traitorous Paladins, and that oaths have something to do with it, but we don't get the full picture until later. Even now, waiting on book five, we still don't have all the answers.

@Le_Souf

27w

Loved the atmosphere you brought into that video (Artsyle, narration, music...). Keep it up !

@Biochemitra

41w↑2

Y'know, I do love a good elaborate magic system, but I appreciate someone finally stepping forth and pointing out that it's not the end-all, be-all, most-bestest, Only Valid Way to Write Magic.
Tropes are tools, and there are places where a softer take on magic works better than a defined system. And there are places where it may be best served somewhere in the middle.
Everyone loves Avatar, but there are circles where it's rapidly approaching "Only Valid Way To Write" territory.

@wertyupanoptikus9787

31w↑1

You earned another subscriber, maybe not much but thanks for make me questioning those things. I need these resources to think about my wrinting and the ideas i try to create in each story.

@DownzyTheBear

40w↑5

This is why Malazan has my favorite magic of all time. It’s actually magical. When you turn magic into fictional science it can really take all the magic out of it. (See rhythm of war)

@elrikstronginthearm9267

47w↑1.5K

I just had this thought: this might be the reason or at least on of the reasons why the 'there used to be much more powerful magic but it got lost' is such a often used trope. It is a way to make unexplainable, magical things available even in a universe where everything else is very defined and sciency

@btfilther

46w↑155

That was a good idea. The loss of ancient knowledge is so mysterious to us that it is borderline magical. How was that ancient structure made? Who made it, was it us, was it aliens, was it another super advanced civilization? What purpose did it serve? You look at it and you know it is a building, because you have seen countless other buildings, and it still defies all reason. It makes you feel uncomfortable even.

@Lord_zeel

46w

How about this as a subversion: We used to have this ancient and wonderful magic that was super powerful and all that. Now we don't... because we figured out how it works, and now we just call it technology. It's not the magic that went away, it's just out wonder that got lost.

@uc22_swo1p

45w↑49

Yeah just like how roman concrete was is stronger than modern concrete even though it’s ancient. ( although of course that was also disproven later but during the time it felt magical)
And why that is the case has only recently been discovered.

It’s still science but it was long time lost science which brought a feeling of magic to something old that can still “surpass” the modern.

Plus the fact that it get’s stronger over time.

@KingFate20

45w↑97

@@uc22_swo1p The problem with the example of Roman concrete is that... it isn't stronger.
The way we use concrete now, roman concrete would be utterly unsuitable. You cant have something dependent on salt water, when modern designs require steel and metals that would be completely destroyed by salt water's incorporation.

Roman roads stood for centuries while modern roads degrade in only a handful of years... because they didn't have 2 ton rubber tired machines traveling across them by the thousands at 40 miles an hour all day every day.

Its a pretty common case that comes up. We look back at some mythologized thing we don't understand, attribute some grand capability to it. Then when we do understand it, we realize it is, in practice, inferior to what we have already made.

@the4spaceconstantstetraqua886

45w↑23

@@KingFate20 I love this.
Completely destroys this trope. (I don't like the trope)

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@carrotmaster8521

26w

the sense of immersion shown in this channel, the world contained within it, the vibes. its unparalleled. great job!

@justintrigg5528

31w

Idk if I just haven't seen a video in a while but I freakin love the new intro.

Also, have you read the Coldfire Trilogy? Fascinating magic system to me.

@locustofchiron

42w

I like to point back to the Young Wizards series as one of my favorite Hard Magic examples. In the second book the main characters are taking some people to the moon, and their passengers are confused as to why they have to worry about things like calculating the amount of energy needed for the 4 of them + Oxygen to reach escape velocity if it's magic.

The response is that ultimately magic is just another way of manipulating energy, they just get that energy from places that we don't understand and utilizes mystic principles (bring along a moon rock because it remembers the way back to where it came from) to keep it from becoming too bogged down in itself and making magic still feel magical.

I read Young Wizards around the same time I read Harry Potter, and I was almost so much more enchanted with Young Wizards because I felt like I could be a Wizard if I could somehow learn the Speech.

@wolfbd5950

22w↑1

I love the magic system in Diane Duane's Young Wizard series (starting with So You Want To Be A Wizard). It is a hard magic approach, to the point where the spells are set up like equations, and it actually meshes quite well with the physics that we know (if you're going to the moon, you have to take your air with you, account for the differing trajectories through space, and provide enough energy to get out of Earth's gravity well). But, as you go through the series, there is still some of that unexplained magic at the very bottom of things.

@dishwashercharm947

43w↑1

this is my first tale foundry vid ive seen in a while anD HOLY CRAP YOU GUYS HAVE AN ANIMATED INTRO NOW OMGGGG IT LOOKS SO COOL IM SO HAPPYYYYYYY

@aeginsilverblood2070

47w↑418

An interesting thing in Brandon Sanderson’s books is that the characters typically don’t see what they can do as “magic”. To them it’s just a natural part of the world like electricity or gravity. It’s only when someone from another world shows up that has access to abilities they’ve never seen before that they consider something “magical”

@carso1500

47w↑71

Travel back in time to the medieval era with a cellphone and a apache helicopter and you will be considered a god

@weedweeb9211

47w↑45

@@carso1500 Basically what happened to the isolated island that starts worshipping the supply helicopter

@fearedjames

47w↑41

Stormlights actually very cool with this. Magic is represented as mystical to characters who do not know what they are doing, and science and technique to those that do. As they learn magic, it becomes less mystical and this change in perspective helps subtly change the story to fit the increasingly capable characters.

So things like shards are always portrayed pretty much as normal shit, since everyone knows how shards work.

Its why I felt Way of Kings opening with Sseths assassination of Gavilar as a huge drawback for the book. Really bad to immediately clearly define Lashings when later characters using them are supposed to be lost and confused, causing an awkward disconnect of the reader and character.

@Grim_Bud

47w↑3

@@weedweeb9211 then run out of fuel fairly quick.

@tudornaconecinii3609

47w↑26

@@fearedjames The one funny thing about the duality between "invested arts are magic" vs "invested arts are science" in Brandon's Cosmere is that when "mentors" impart "wisdom" upon protagonists, they don't do it like stereotypical fantasy wizened old men, but like budget Richard Feynmans.

Like, you know the scene from Rhythm of War when Kaladin went to Zahel for advice, and Zahel basically gave him a physics lesson? I'd hate it if all fantasy was like that, but someone doing it is nice.

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@ImVeryOriginal

26w↑1

The moment of magic I like the most in The Lord of the Rings is actually Gandalf repelling the Balrog. It seems like it's the words he says themselves have the power to influence reality. The poetic phrasing and the feeling that he's pulling on an ancient well of knowledge and experience just make this moment special to me.

@ninjabgwriter

41w

Ok I'm very interested in this video and haven't seen it the whole way through yet, but my jaw dropped at that gorgeous animated intro, absolutely subscribed.

@ninjabgwriter

41w

I was right, this was straight up my alley. In addition, I actually have a fun instance of science FEELING like magic in an inherently magical world. I'm writing a campaign setting for a TTRPG that's basically my LotR meets Treasure Planet take on Spelljammer, an old D&D setting for 2e that was recently re released for 5e. I've homebrewed a now extinct alien race that's very much sci fi, with very specific and highly advanced technology based off of an understanding of science and physics that surpasses our own in the real world, and most certainly surpasses the understanding of those in universe.

That's because their technology is heavily based off of magic. For instance, some people have things that are basically microwaves, but are run by brief bursts of portals opening to the Elemental Plane of Fire to cook food. But it's still run off of magic and fantastical laws, and in my setting, magic is partially based off of belief or suspension of disbelief. It's part of how I have slightly different magic systems across different worlds, because the inhabitants BELIEVE it works that way. More or less like magic is a malleable force that is shaped by the perception of a sentient creature. It's as immutable or rational as it's perceived to be. Kind of like how quantum physics change when observed.

So their magical technology lends itself well to replication. If you know exactly how the people who used it before thought it worked, great. But if you rationalize a way that makes sense to you and truly believe it SHOULD work, it shifts the way it functions to accommodate that perception. This scientific technology doesn't do that. It functions the way it was built, and only that way. It works for the reasons it works, not because someone believes they understand it. And THAT is the most confounding thing to the people of that world. This technology has a rigid, immutable system that is based off of an entirely different technological path than theirs, and they don't remotely have the foundation to even begin understanding it. So this science is flipped on its head to feel like magic! It can't be replicated or understood by the modern people, so they're mysteries and finite resources.

Part of why I did this is there's sort of a... 'Pandora's box' for mixing fantasy and sci fi that I found while trying to develop this world. If you lean too far into sci fi, it no longer feels like fantasy. For instance, Avatar the Last Airbender felt very magical to me. Korra did not, it felt like early 1900s with bending. The airplane and radios and electricity really broke immersion, and I think it's hard for people to imagine how a society of comparable technological advancement to the current day would function aside from just... copying the real world. And for sci fi, does it matter if the Enterprise is run off of 'warp nacelles' or 'runic drives' if it's still basically Star Trek? Keeping the well understood and commonly used technology more firmly rooted in fantasy, and having the sci fi elements be rare, irreplicatable, and incomprehensible kind of preserves the vibe I'm going for while still allowing the genres to mix, and ironically making them feel more magical.

@littlebriggs9789

42w

THE NEW INTRO IS FANTASTIC!! love the detail and the movement is really fluid!

@Rubywing4

35w

Some years ago, I watched America's Got Talent with my parents, and the winner was a guy named Shin Lim, who specializes in card magic.
As in... REALLY advanced card magic. In all of his performances in the competition, he kept wowing the audience, judges and us viewers watching TV. And I could not figure out or imagine at all how he did those tricks.
Usually in card magic, the magician wears long sleeves, I think, which helps making cards disappear and appear and stuff. But Shin Lim wore short sleeves, meaning he could not use that kind of trick.
Plus his speed is simply INCREDIBLE, he moves the cards so fast you can't see where they go, not in his palm or the back of his hand turning away. I think maybe also the tables he used did not have any tablecloths, if I remember correctly, so he couldn't hide them in any way with the table.
But the SICKEST trick was the last performance he gave in the competition, where he was holding a card, and then IT CHANGED LIVE RIGHT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE! As if it was a screen, but it was just a card!
I don't care much for musical performances like many competitors do, you see it all the time. But magic like this? Even his first performance was enough that I hoped he would win, and he did, which was awesome!
I don't know how Shin Lim did his tricks, and I don't want to know how, because that is definitely the closest thing to real magic that I, and probably most other people, will have ever seen. In fact, I am ready to believe that what I saw was true magic, and that Shin Lim is a true magician. It was just so good. Maybe I should rewatch his performances, just to be sure that I remember it correctly, because I think even the judges said they couldn't figure out how he did it and that was enough to get a yes from them.

@Postal268

42w↑2

I always enjoy looking at science as magic, it keeps it more magical for me lol. Much like you said, it's getting a similar enjoyment like out of a video game. I love to visualize the way we make technology as exploting the laws and glitches of this world to our advantage. It may not be breaking the laws, or sometimes it does since our understanding of the laws are still incomplete, but for me science and magic can be one in the same. I'm far too lazy to ever finish it, but I did begin to write a book once that took place in medieval times and had a merlin type character but all his magic was just science and technology easy for us to understand today but a complete mystery to those of that time. Like running a primitive pipe system to a natural gas reserve under his home to have a smokeless fireplace that never needs more wood. I thought this story would be a way to help others come to find understanding and science still magical. It's simply perspective and acceptance like you said. Accept you will never know or understand everything but switch your perspective to still be fascinated and amazed if you do understand it. Even typing this now is amazing to me. It's amazing I can sit from my home and touch plastic to manipulate electrons in metals to communicate with other people anywhere in the world while I have a plastic, silicon, and metal box in front of me show me a window to a world that doesn't exist outside of our imagination. It's amazing this all can be broken down into a math and language. Like imagine programing as creating magic runes and voice activated devices as magic devices controlled through incantation.

@SarahBethMac

41w

This is pretty much how Merlin is portrayed in Disney's Sword in the Stone.

@Sonic62920

47w↑969

@carlosalbuquerque22

47w↑54

Basically what MTG does. And lovely take on darkness

@tonoornottono

47w↑25

@@carlosalbuquerque22 marjorie taylor greene? lol

@seriousmaran9414

47w

Keep magic logical, unlike the Republican mindset...😂

@Crowald

47w↑80

It's why healing fire is very cool. That it can be used to burn, or that it can be used to mend.

That the human body heals on its own, that must have looked like something truly magical to our ancient ancestors with zero understanding of the world around them. I can only imagine the fascination looking down at their hand and seeing a big lump of a scar where a gash used to be and thinking; "Why?"

@windego3131

47w↑13

Basically Homestuck

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@nidadursunoglu6663

33w↑1

Whenever a video is sponsored by skillshare or nebula i know that im watching something that will expand my mind or teach me a useful thing

@Catatonica

41w↑1

WAIT I HAVEN'T WATCHED THE CHANNEL IN A WHILE I LOVE THE INTRO ANIMATION!!!

@BBQbical

41w↑1

Your animated character looks like a xelor from wakfu, love the work!

@TrustingTroller

43w

I don't know if this is a compliment, but your voice consistently sends waves of shivers up my spine whenever I listen to you.

@82dorrin

47w↑1.6K

Shows the enduring brilliance of Tolkien's works.

@siriushexa1971

47w↑71

Truly one of the most imaginative authors to have ever lived

@cloberlobster2276

47w↑105

He uses soft magic, soft magic is always magical due to the mystery and charm.

@ivansolodyankin6820

47w↑70

@@cloberlobster2276 and that is exactly why he is so great.
He uses system to the fullest of it' potential and creates such great moments.
Soft magic system isn't bad as it is, it's how you use it.

@sophisticatedidiot8737

47w↑22

@Ivan Solodyankin I would say that while I agree soft magic is great, it is something that has to be used carefully. Honestly, I personally think Tolkien was a legendary world builder, but his story writing was not as great. The problem I have with how soft magic was used was simply how overpowered some of his character became (*cough* Gandalf *cough*), and that led to him needing to very obviously manipulate the situation so that Gandalf, or the Eagles, or a lot of other characters didn't just wave the situation away with their power. That's why, as cool as the Balrog was, the scene with him was rather poorly written, because it very cleary served the purpose of removing Gandalf from the fellowship, as to let their stories continue without being derailed. It's really hard to fit soft magic into hard world building

@ivansolodyankin6820

47w↑20

@@sophisticatedidiot8737 i still would call all his mistakes a win, since you don't question most of his decisions while reading, you can start asking questions later, when you think about what read more, but in the moment the story and the characters grip you so hard that you just don't want to think about it.
Yes, some aspects could use an improvement, but i would argue, that mistakes and imperfections make the story better in a way, imperfections in a great story is a sign of human hand that created this story.
You can critisize the man for making mistakes, but you can't deny that those mistakes are outright RUIN the expirience.

I hope you can understand what i'm trying to say, english isn't my first language, as you can deduct from my name, sorry in advance if butcher some of my own thoughts while trying to convey them. XD

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@JanisChambers

14w

One story world I wrote was structured in a multiverse of sorts. In some realities a substance could be found everywhere, but that was only the first step. One had to be born able to cast or find some way to simulate that birthright. The substance in question was a mineral that found its way into the nervous system of everyone, but the magic manifested differently depending on one's anatomy.

The actual system of magic wasn't to cast, it was to keep true chaos from destroying the caster and everyone around them. In truth, the system was knowledge. One can't manifest fire unless they understand combustion. One can't teleport unless they have a reasonable understanding of how that would be possible in their reality (whether or not they had the resources to actually do it. A solid theory would be enough to both violate reality and keep one's skin and organs from changing places.

@denusklausen3685

27w

There is a weird parallel story like the one you paint in the history of Philosophy. My professor at the University of Copenhagen has done research in historiography and found that it was one Jacob Brucker who was the first to describe the history of Philosophy in terms of philosophical "systems" (systema philosophiae). As such, many who were previously thought of as philosophers were no longer counted in the history of Philosophy (the "pre-Socratics" are a good example) and their philosophies were discounted as mere incoherent and contradictory platitudes.
This view still holds up today and it shows exactly how we feel the need to systematize and rationalize everything. If there are no logical principles from which we can infer or deduce the rest of the system then it is illogical and useless. But a lot of the "magic" in those philosophies is exactly how they rest on paradox and enigma, how they move from one thing and then to the next without there having to be a logical connection.
A lot of Chinese philosophy has this feature and it shows how different our cosmogenies were: In Greek mythology, the Gods won over Chaos and created order in the universe, assured the essence and being of all things, in Chinese mythology Heaven created the ten thousand things, things that have a being, but more in terms of being-there, things that can be arranged in any number of ways.
The Western world's need to order things, and find the prime principles, is probably what urges us to systematize magic and make astrology into astronomy, geomancy into geology, divination into prediction, signatures and homeopathy into biology.

@jojogape

42w

Thank you for this video! I love the feeling of wonder, but I also like to have some degree of magic-system-ification going on. Possibly because I love elemental type stuff, with all its tropes and color coding and such, but also have some things kind of undefined! I just like to have a balance of both, but with a simple and intuitive system, not one with like 84 rules haha. It's valid in its own right, but it's not really my thing when it becomes super complicated.

@thgritic102

41w

Love the animation for your channel now. That was amazing! 👏🏿

@flocondegivre9164

42w↑1

It was interesting. I only partially agree. I see three ways in which a phenomenon can in my opinion deserve the designation of magic:

1. I think that if the described thing does not rely (or not entirely) on matter and energy, but takes into account things such as feelings, morals or something that inherently has no measurements or quantity, then it is magic no matter how well you understand the laws that govern these phenomena.

2. I think it is also legitimate to call "magic" scientific laws which do not form systems, but which are a cluster of "absurd" elements that can be discovered by experience but not deduced or predicted. As if everything were only axioms.

3. Finally, I think that we can also call "magic" the phenomena whose laws break our intuition of what is rational. Here it becomes subjective in essence, but some things will be considered magical more commonly than others and almost consensual for a human, such as the possibility of being in two places at the same time. That's why physicists sometimes say things like "if you're not shocked, you haven't understood this postulate" in quantum physics. However, objectively gravity or the electromagnetic force have no more logical reasons to be real.

@joda7697

47w↑320

I also have a good counterbalance to this: All science can be magical!

When i learn new theorems or new applications of them, i see how they work, why they work. But taking a step back and witnessing that they work with my own eyes, that is magical to me.

@ultimatedragon4281

46w↑34

Spoken like a true scientist... High five!

@joda7697

46w↑20

@@ultimatedragon4281 I remember when i learned about population inversion in gain media, how to pump them, and how absorption and stimulated emission work.

And then i take a laser pointer and marvel that it actually works.

@ogrejehosephatt37

46w↑1

Exactly!

@VetinariClone

45w↑20

Yeah, that was my immediate reaction to the beginning of this video. Science is magic to me. It doesn’t matter that we can explain a lot of it (actually, let’s be real, a small amount of it compared to what more we have to learn) it’s still us tinkering around with the building blocks of the universe to make amazing things happen. How can you not think of that as magical?

@joshuawillingham6363

45w↑8

It reminds me of a.joke that shows up with really smart characters sometimes, albeit for a different reason. More the mystery side.

Char 1: Wait, how does that work?

Char 2: Starts a complicated technical exploration

Char 1: Right, magic, got it.

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@dumdum5609

15w

There's a channel in youtube called monster garden it's a world building project. In one of the videos the artist delves into magic system which I think is interesting since there's a hint of realism to his work. Magic intertwined with anatomy, it's really interesting.

@specialknees6798

29w↑2

My favorite type of magic is probably hard magic that has to be discovered by the main characters over the course of the book or series. It's one of the reasons why I prefer the Stormlight Archive's magic over Mistborn, despite the latter usually being touted as the best system out there. In mistborn, Kelsier and his crew sort of just explain everything to Vin as soon as she's discovered as mistborn. Much of the mystery is taken away. Contrast this to stormlight where for the first book, we learn very little about the magic system, because it's been absent from the world for centuries. So when weird shit starts happening to Kaladin and Shallan, we just have to figure it out with them as the series goes on. Lightbringer is another example where the system is explained to the reader in small doses. So while those in the world know how it works, we don't. This allows for a sense of logic and continuity within the world while also maintaining the mystery of magic.

@AlbaMusicArt

42w

I'm loving this! The sci-fi elements in this music are spot-on. It's a perfect blend of futuristic sounds and melodies that immerse me in a sci-fi world. I can't get enough of it😍😍

@luketien928

13w

Thanks for your video and your channel! Have you read Wizard’s Bane? It has a somewhat different take on the magic “system”. The protagonist is a computer programmer from our world pulled into an alternate reality with magic. The magic there is quite unstable and requires precise actions to be casted. So precise that it’s extremely difficult to be a powerful wizard — a misplacement of the toe or something in your gestures could kill you instead of, say, hurling a fireball. The protagonist learns basic magic there, and eventually discovers that his abilities in the Assembly programming language helps him greatly in becoming a very powerful wizard. Many topics you discussed in your video are taken on differently in that book. An interesting read, and I’d love for you to do a video on that one!

@sansventura7199

42w↑1

It’s a fundamental rule of the universe that the universe has rules, even if we can’t understand them or are incapable of understanding them. Just because it’s an unknown or unknowable quantity doesn’t mean it isn’t without some guiding principle, much like our own universe and sciences, we know everything is governed by a set of rules but we are still learning all the ins and outs of them is all. Some magic systems just choose to leave it purposely vague so the reader can fill in the blanks, some give a hyper detailed scientific understanding of their systems so you can experiment and tinker around with them.

Magic is the science of the worlds they spawn from, no more different than our own, even if we can’t understand them in their entirety within specific stories doesn’t mean that theirs not some governing principle that binds their world together.
Even in worlds where the point is that there are no rules, and chaos is the only thing that matters, that in itself is a rule and a way of understanding the universe. Magic is simply the manner of which whimsy and fun meets terror and violence, each fictional world that uses it simply balances each side out and divides it up at their creative leisure.

Just because it can be explained through our Lens of science doesn’t take away the spark that makes it fun, it just makes it easier for us to grasp. Even without that understanding, it doesn’t take away the universe rule of rules.

@juanisol8275

47w↑255

“She told me that if magic gives people what they want, then not using magic can give them what they need. said Granny, her hand hovering over the plate." - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites

@timothypryor7952

47w↑5

That's Sir Terry Pratchett. That man earned his knighthood.

@juanisol8275

47w

@@timothypryor7952🐢🗺️🐘" Ook!!"🦧🔮📚

@dvillines26

46w↑5

Granny Weatherwax is the greatest fictional witch of all time, and her greatness is that she would never use actual magic when a practical solution would do, and so much of being a witch in her view was psychology.

@airiden4734

41w

On the "Sandersonian" approach to magic, I think it is magic still, just for the first part of the books at least. If not for the reader, for the characters who are discovering them.

(Having read a good majority of the cosmere collection of series) His books seem mostly based on the sense of the unknown leading up to the reveal, and he does a good job of making the systems understood without making it feel too much like a science. The metallurgy does end up as part of science experiments, yes, but there's never enough known about it to definitively place it in a non-magic category. They have rules, but so do even the most mystical of magics, his are just more defined.

All in all, i love the systems he creates, and it remains true magic in my eyes. Great video though!

@DerakosZrux

15w↑1

They're both good story telling perspectives but you like one more than the other which is fine. Frodo's story is good and interesting partially because of his awe of magic as you described, but Galadriel's story would be of equal, possibly more interest to me. Some of my favorite stories are of completely normal people who essentially use the scientific method to unlock the magickal mysteries of the universe and sometimes even ascend to some form of godhood, further unveiling mysteries that they never dreamed of. But also it's fine if there's a hard barrier that only true gods can know and even the most powerful human wizard is still only as powerful as an ant is to us. Magic systems in universes with cosmic horror are especially fascinating to me. My favorite example being the Demonata series by Darren Shan.

@pixelfire86

33w

I really like the magic system of Biblaridion's "Refugium" project. It's believable that characters in The Refugium would be able to perform apparently magical acts via the power of the Essences because the Essences literally comprise all of reality (physical, mental, etc). And there's still plausible room for a great deal of surprise and unexpected outcomes in the "magic" because the Essences have agency/will of some sort and are so great in scope & alien in form that they can't be fully comprehended by the people of The Refugium or by us.

The Essences' "goals" seem to align with certain concepts about physical and mental/emotional reality (stability, revelry, order, beauty, decay, etc), which I find particularly compelling. Differences in personality and temperament between different people in The Refugium are a result of the varying ways and proportions in which the Essences comprise and influence people's thoughts and minds.

@JamesLockerby

36w↑11

Mistborn is actually an amazing series though, and Brandon Sanderson has a crazy mind to create the entire cosmere. Read it if you haven't already!

@mysticalseapotato8303

14w↑1

So I've had this video on the "to watch" list for a few months now. I've been not watching it as I just didn't find the need of it.
Well I've just started writing a book which has a man who is decades to centuries after the world took a "shake up" where everything started changing and unexplainable events occur and leave behind inexplicable after effects. Going at the idea of how society treated the unexplainable before we started setting down the foundation of science. Things just worked in ways we didn't understand and I wanted to write the story like that.
Truthfully, science is my bread and butter and I know a good deal compared to the average person. I've gone in with the idea of having the character interact with things which violate the laws of science and can't be rationalized. The world itself has a different set of laws which "broke" science. Some things still work, others don't, like lightbulbs. I have made the common lightbulb useless. Introducing things that I have avoided explaining pretty much all of the weird things and the main character is himself unable to explain why things work different. Like my, realizing what it was after the fact, bag of holding which is just an animal hide with a crystal which has no physical self to it and is just a black void, with the walls of the cave the crystal was found in being turned into a powder and mixed with a resin to keep the crystal from consuming the bag it lies in. It isn't really magic as it's literally just a rock in a bag, but it gives the impression of being magical. It's funny as I pretty much accidently came up with the same conclusion as this video in that magic shouldn't be explained to continue to be magic. I've just been coming up with things that can't and don't have explanations.

@headrockbeats

43w↑2.2K

Lovecraftian Horror tackles this issue in the most effective way, I believe. Characters in Lovecraft's work are often scholars, who spend time and effort studying these things as though they were a science. However, while they can sometimes learn how to do an action to produce a result, they never understand why that happens. The forces at work are explicitly stated to be unknowable, and any attempt to understand the magic leads, inevitably, to MADNESS.

A great example of this outside of Lovecraft's own work is the Fallen London universe of videogames (Fallen London, Sunless Sea and Sunless Skies). Bizarre, utterly supernatural things are pretty much a daily fact of life within these universes; but there is almost no explanation of how or why it all works the way it does. Once again, there are methods to replicate various outcomes, and plenty of science-minded people trying to solve the problems by studying them, but there are never any answers, only ever-increasing, life-threatening TERROR as one approaches anything resembling a "truth".

In this sense, modern magic is essentially a mockery of science - it has the trappings of a "system", but any attempt to actually study it is futile. There is always a risk, and always a wonder, no matter how much you know.

@travislyonsgary

43w↑65

Eh to be fair in both Lovecraft and Fallen London things are not unknowable per se. It is more that to attain the perspective needed to understand, ones own being and perspective is alienated from what one once was. The Hours in Fallen London fully used to be humans, they arent now as the path to becoming what they are neccecitated their change. The cultist in Lovecrafts original work note quite often and quite liberally that the Old Ones will teach them new ways of being but by the very nature of their rituals the l protaganist already considers them mad.

The key in both cases is specific rules may exist, but a knowledge gap is held both of potential antagonistic forces relation to those rules and the protaganist relation to those rules(mainly lovecraft for protaganist) A lot of the Fallen London setting is the journey to being capable of that understanding with actual showcase of what you lose along the way

@RediTtora-sx1hb

43w↑26

I often use Lovecraft and as an example of the more you know the less interesting it is. But the problem is if it's too vague then it's frustrating because it seems too convenient a lot of the times.

@juliandacosta6841

43w↑29

This actually applies to a lot of things in real life/science. The more mass something has, the more gravity it has. But scientists aren't really concerned with why it happens, they spend most of their time studying the intricacies of its effects. You can apply that to a lot of things, because if you keep on asking "why?" you eventually get to something that doesn't have an answer.

@headrockbeats

43w↑54

@@juliandacosta6841 That's not true. Scientists are extremely interested in why - and how - mass creates gravity. That is the study of bosons. And we are constantly finding answers to such questions that were once thought "unsolvable" - whether thanks to developments in mathematics/physics, or technological developments in instrumentation. The assertion that "you eventually get to something that doesn't have an answer" has been made many times in the past, and continues to be proven false constantly.

By contrast, Lovecraftian Horror is specifically written as a criticism on the incessant search for answers, saying that not only will you not receive answers at the end, but will also literally suffer for the hubris of believing that there would be answers.

@giggabiite4417

43w↑16

ok, but hear me out. Irl science is just like this too. We're constantly learning new things, and the more we learn the more questions form. In addition, whenever we create or discover something new and powerful with our scientific revelations, it has the power to cause untold harm to our current way of life (which is always changing anyway but whose idealized version is oft considered the best way of life).

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@glitteryvomitt

16w

this made me remember of a steven universe episode where it's said "humans call what they can't understand or explain magic" or something among those lines, i couldn't find the exact quote. at the start of the show, they feel way more magical, but as it progresses you really start seeing that it was all just technology that we couldn't understand. their own physical forms and powers and weapons seemed to only be explained by magic, but as you learn more about the lore you see it more as a robot or a hologram that was programmed to look like that, have those powers, etc

@halley8105

30w↑1

10:03 which is exactly why i love science, as a fantasy reader. The understanding of it doesn't take away the magical feel, as both science and magic are the same.

@luciole7175

42w

Love your channel ! Hope you'll continue

@Starcat5

40w↑1

6:38 "Any sufficiently explained magic is indistinguishable from technology." -Some web comic I read once. 9:47 ...fair enough, though I see it differently.
My personal favorite setting is High Fantasy disguised as Soft SciFi. All the miniaturized super computers are doing is making tonal chanting and iconomancy more efficient. Or in the case of Lyrical Nanoha, where it starts as Urban Fantasy, gets subverted when the space ships and advanced cities show up, but is STILL telling the Laws of Physics to bugger off in ways that String Theory can't wave away. A Soft Magic system disguised as Soft Science, showing how blurry the line between the two actually is.

@Starcat5

40w↑1

And of course we have settings where it is Soft SciFi disguised as High Fantasy. All the spells and whatnot are really just command codes sent to the super computer at the core of the planet, and none of the protagonists are the wiser until near the end of the story. A certain story with Dragons comes to mind. Xeno(gears/saga/blade) are all over the map, but I personally put those games somewhere in the middle. Also in the middle is Star Wars. A Soft SciFi setting with an ESP-flavored Soft Magic system sprinkled in. And while there were arguments that the Force wasn't Magic, all that got tossed out after "Palpatine somehow returned". *SHUDDER*

@TuShan18

42w↑1

Mandaloregaming talked about a game called arcanum that might have my favorite execution of magic and technology I’ve seen.

Technology is accessible, so it’s easier for someone to learn how to use a gun, instead of training for years to cast a fireball. The laws of physics still apply to everything, that’s why a steam engine still works. But magic is nonsense. There is no system and it breaks every law just by existing.

Normally this isn’t a problem, but if you board a train, casting a spell can destroy the train because it relies on the laws of physics to function.

I love this because it gives a reason for technology and magic to exist separately, and the magic is actually magical.

@Taladar2003

47w↑509

The thing I don't like about soft magic systems is that they present a huge temptation to the author to take the easy way out when they wrote themselves into a corner and just make up some sort of magic on the spot to solve a problem. I do like the creativity hard magic systems (and rules of the world they built in general) forces on the author.

@rainy2063

44w↑19

Yeah
And this "soft magic" is being used only in few moments. But in other it seem not to work

@rainy2063

44w↑30

And those "bad magic" from HP
This is bad and evil just because it break all story by realizing that main characters could make it everything much easier

@TONYSTARK557

44w↑46

I mean, making up whole systems is a similar temptation. Down the line, you'd have systems after systems, expansion after expansion, and a few key exceptions to make it spicy. No good story starts with a full-blown system and never changes in those ways by the end.

Soft or hard magic, it both could be deus ex machina easy enough.

@RFDN0

44w↑43

Both systems honestly have strengths and weaknesses. Both naritively and creatively.

@acendiatmedia8747

44w↑25

@@TONYSTARK557sure if the writer decides to retcon or maker things up on the fly. But every time creates a potential obstacle, while soft magic is completely prone to it.

20 More Replies...

@Herr_Gamer

41w

When magic is a science, it becomes far more interesting to me. Something like fullmetal alchemist for example makes a really good display of it’s limits and rules. Though another form I’m really fond of is the type seen in the manga Witch Hat Atelier. The magic there isn’t something done by people, it’s more akin to rune magic where the power lies not in the caster, but the forms they draw and from then on the way they draw their runes and symboms affect the type, power, direction, duration and element of their magic. As far as I’ve read, there isn’t any explanation beyond this as to why certain forms and shapes bend reality, which does keep it mysterious and retains the otherworldliness of it being actual magic rather than just science. This way, even to the witches of the setting, it still isn’t a blatantly obvious fact of life. They know how, but not why, it works

@LiveWire937

38w

I've never understood this perspective, and after watching and re-watching this video, tbh, I still don't. To me, understanding has never erased wonder, nor eased it. I've studied a lot, compulsively even, in my 3 decades on this Earth, and I'd guess by now that I should know more than most about how things work. My favorite things to study have always been physics, mathematics, engineering, electronics, computer science, programming, information theory, material science, biology, psychology, sociology, anthropology, economics, logistics, linguistics, rhetoric, politics... In essence, everything and anything that relates to how anything and everything works. I can't and won't claim to know all there is to know on any of these things; even after all I've learned, I still have hundreds of more questions about each aforementioned topic, and I expect the answer to each may yet grant me tenfold more questions. That said, when it comes to explaining the things I see, use, interact with, and am affected by regularly, I rarely find myself stumped anymore, and much of what I don't know I can often work out from what I do. My compulsion to learn more is still just as strong, though, because rather than cure my wonder, knowledge has only ever multiplied it. Knowing how the mundane works is exactly what makes it magical, because having that knowledge is what allows one to do that which may otherwise have seemed impossible. Before one begins to ask how things work, neither magic nor science can exist in one's mind; at least to me, that makes them functionally one and the same.

@TheTaleFoundry

38w

Your answer is in you second sentence. Magic is not wonder. Magic is often invoked as a metaphor for powerful emotions like wonder, but they are not the same thing. Magic can also make you feel horror, or confusion.

—Benji, showrunner

@samiamrg7

42w

I am somewhat reminded of Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura in which magic is a force which fundamentally breaks the laws of physics, and proximity to magical phenomena causes small, random changes to local physics which might be unnoticable under normal conditions, but will regularly cause complex mechanisms to jam or break because they can’t cope with random increases or decreases in friction coefficients or the density of parts and whatnot.

@mattkaniski5473

28w

This is an interesting take on magic, and I don't think that this necessarily has to contradicts magic systems. In Patrick Rothfuss' book The Name of The Wind, there are two kinds of "magic": Sympathy and Naming. Sympathy looks like magic to an outsider but to the sympathist it can be explained logically, however sympathy is based on belief instead of the laws of physics. As for Naming it is based on understanding instead of physics and appears inexplicable even to a person with understanding of it, however Rothfuss writes that it is "an issue of translation" and that some things can be understood but not explained in words due to the fact that, "all explicit knowledge is translated knowledge, and all translation is imperfect" meaning it is explainable but not through words. In both cases what makes the magic feel magical is not that its unexplainable but that it is only explainable through unfamiliar mediums that don't apply to the rules of physics.

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